ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: ecavoli on March 30, 2018, 06:42:34 PM
-
As a prospective buyer, dealer support and accessibility is a big concern. I've noticed that a few dealers in the Northeast US have stopped carrying Zero already. And the dealer closest to me has what seems like low sales volume. Has anyone else noticed a trend in dealers "pulling out" of Zero in other parts of the country. Or is the dealer network still growing? I'm concerned about losing more dealers within a reasonable distance but also wondering about the health of the dealer network overall. Thanks for any insights and for the great conversations on this board.
-
Wow - both my closest dealers are gone! :( Now I'm left with a 2 hr. drive, or facing the horrors of the NYC metro area. There's been a significant turnover in dealers since at least 2013 when I began tracking Zero, but the trend has been for an increasing number of dealers in the NE until now. I wouldn't be surprised if another one pops up in western CT / SE NY in the next year or so.
My take on this: back when Zeros were less reliable than they are now, at least one dealer I know of dropped them for the 'headache factor'. Nowadays I think it's more of an overstock/excessive inventory decision, as many OEM's (not Zero) force large minimum orders on their dealers and they're just choking on bikes, even when sales are good.
Ray
-
Are these dealers just dropping the Zero franchise or are they completely closing? My original Zero dealer closed up shop and sold out to a Dollar Store because the owner was just fed up with the regulatory difficulty of keeping a small motorcycle business running in California, the regulatory heaven of the world. (My Royal Enfield/Honda/Suzuki dealer, located 30 miles away, which had been open continuously since 1967, gave up due to age and failing health.) I have heard a number of comments on the internet and in print magazines recently of motorcycle shops just going out of business and once that happens it takes a huge amount of money and commitment to open up a new dealership when they are located in eastern and western coastal states.
I can certainly believe that a shop might drop Zero because of a lack of customer interest, high initial price, difficulty of troubleshooting and repair, little after-sales profit for their service department and low sales volume. And this would especially be true for a large dealership that depends upon volume to remain profitable. Selling motorcycles has always been a tough business and no one that I ever knew got rich doing it. You really need to be an enthusiast to keep a dealership up and running for years and (unfortunately) motorcycle enthusiasts are a dying breed, in my opinion. :( Right now motorcycle sales are down and I am not sure that things are going to become better anytime soon. ???
-
I'm referencing a dealer in Stamford, CT. They didn't close shop, just dropped the Zero line. They said it was a combination of lack of interest and poor dealer support from the
manufacturer. "They are not very structured like the Japanese OEM's"
-
See my post on Zero needing to get out of California to afford more staffing. :)
I had an idea to put Zeros in a high end bicycle shop. When you pay over $2000 for a set of race wheels a $16,000 motorcycle doesn't seem that bad.
My closest dealer had a SR sitting right next to a Ducati monster naked bike with the same type of red tank color. But the Ducati of course has a much higher top speed and was about half the cost.
Head to head with gas bikes it's a hard sale, and the old guys aren't trying to make a hard sell in the first place.
I don't know how many bikes get sold up north with the long winter season in the first place.
The range reduction in the cold sure doesn't help.
-
Are these dealers just dropping the Zero franchise or are they completely closing?
Here's my experience with nearby Zero dealers, in chronological order:
Carbon Negative (Brooklyn, NY) went out of business
Phibbs Motorsports (Albany, NY) dropped Zero
Great Bay MC (N. Hampton, NH) went out of business
Rockwell Cycles (Fort Montgomery, NY) dropped Zero
Stamford Motorsports (Stamford, CT) dropped Zero
Ray
-
Last year a nearby dealer took on the Zero line. I was very happy as the nearest one was 2 hrs away. They are a Victory dealer in Tyngsboro Mass. I've been trying to support them, bought some plastics, foot pegs, getting new tires next week. Want them to know they can make money on Zeros too. I think that's key.
-
The place where I bought mine (All Season Motorsports in Calgary) no longer sells Zeros...or anything other than used bikes now, it seems. Now my closest dealer is 1,000 km's away in Vancouver. Guess I'd better grab a spare belt before they go the same route (actually, you can drive a motorcycle in the winter in Vancouver, so it's a different story there).
-
I think 2017 was a rough year for all motorcycle sales but Zero was hit especially hard....most likely due to the uncertainty around the federal tax credit in the USA. A dealer I talked to had sold 10 bikes in 2016 but only sold 1 bike (not counting demo bikes) in 2017.
On top of that, it is my understanding that for 2018 Zero changed the bank they require dealers to work with to floor demo bikes. I have been told the change in requirements are a real pain in the butt and makes it harder for small dealers to get financed to floor the demo bikes.
I think these two factors have resulted in a high number of dealers dropping for 2018 model year. I think dealer support is a legitimate concern for any new buyer so I hope Zero gets things figured out for 2019 bikes.
-
I don’t know about the dealers, but lumpiness in sales is, I suspect, common for the early days of new technologies. Look at the first five years of Apple iPhone sales.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/)
-
My local dealer dropped Zero but still carry KTM, Arctic Cat and Beta.
-
Last year a nearby dealer took on the Zero line. I was very happy as the nearest one was 2 hrs away. They are a Victory dealer in Tyngsboro Mass. I've been trying to support them, bought some plastics, foot pegs, getting new tires next week. Want them to know they can make money on Zeros too. I think that's key.
I purchased my 2016 DSR from Rahn's Motorcycle Engineering in Abington MA, he still shows up as a dealer, but I have not really had a reason to go back yet (still sticking with original firmware since it works fine for me). I saw that Indian of North Boston is selling them now, that's a little closer for me, I assume that's the dealer you are talking about? I was considering going in there for re-timing the controller since I am a bit over 8K. I suppose I'll be stuck with new firmware at that point. Rahn is a great guy, but it looks like Tyngsboro will be a quicker ride/drive for me.
Steve
-
Maybe we all need these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD2-OBDII-Port-Cover-Do-Not-Reflash/253216956448?epid=2184420272&hash=item3af4e82020:g:XeYAAOSwBD9Zlm4p&vxp=mtr
-
Maybe we all need these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD2-OBDII-Port-Cover-Do-Not-Reflash/253216956448?epid=2184420272&hash=item3af4e82020:g:XeYAAOSwBD9Zlm4p&vxp=mtr
Will that work on my cell phone? ;)
-
Maybe we all need these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD2-OBDII-Port-Cover-Do-Not-Reflash/253216956448?epid=2184420272&hash=item3af4e82020:g:XeYAAOSwBD9Zlm4p&vxp=mtr
I saw do that and cut the wires to the ODBII and splice inline another connector ;)
Can't be too safe .. it is a shame we can't disable over the air updates for the bikes as well :/
-
Last year a nearby dealer took on the Zero line. I was very happy as the nearest one was 2 hrs away. They are a Victory dealer in Tyngsboro Mass. I've been trying to support them, bought some plastics, foot pegs, getting new tires next week. Want them to know they can make money on Zeros too. I think that's key.
I purchased my 2016 DSR from Rahn's Motorcycle Engineering in Abington MA, he still shows up as a dealer, but I have not really had a reason to go back yet (still sticking with original firmware since it works fine for me). I saw that Indian of North Boston is selling them now, that's a little closer for me, I assume that's the dealer you are talking about? I was considering going in there for re-timing the controller since I am a bit over 8K. I suppose I'll be stuck with new firmware at that point. Rahn is a great guy, but it looks like Tyngsboro will be a quicker ride/drive for me.
Steve
Yes, that's them. I was their first zero in for maint, they did the software update for me. They had just got their dealership and had not sold a bike yet. Nice bunch of folks, the service guys are super friendly. I've ordered parts twice, both times i got them in a week. For me, the 10 mi trip there is WAY better than 4hr RT to Conn. From Newington for you, a stress-less traffic free ride is way better than venturing thru Boston area.
-
Maybe we all need these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD2-OBDII-Port-Cover-Do-Not-Reflash/253216956448?epid=2184420272&hash=item3af4e82020:g:XeYAAOSwBD9Zlm4p&vxp=mtr
My 2016 SR just hit 10K miles; last time at dealer was 4K. Dealer is 40 miles away. A good local motorcycle shop is 1/2 mile away. Since I DO NOT want my software upgraded, but DO want someone with an expert eye to check out my bike ... am thinking I'll take it to the local guy. I'm sure he can do all the non-electrical stuph as well (and cheaper than) the dealer: check bearings, steering, brakes, etc. The one thing I'm curious about is "motor commissioning." I'm unsure how important -- or what -- this is. I've googled -- but all the top hits are quite technical (i.e, I've yet to find a simple explanation as to what commissioning is, and why I might need it). Since my bike's been running with no problems, I'm inclined to ignore it.
-
The dealer I bought from charges me a half hour of mechanic time for service. It is hard to beat that.
-
Honestly it doesn't make sense to me that traditional motorcycle dealers would carry Zero with lower sale margins and service revenues (and often without in-house technical expertise).
The Hollywood Electrics' seems a much better business model, and it shows. It's ludicrous that it's easier to get Zero parts/accessories from HE than from Bay Area dealers a few miles away from the factory!
-
Honestly it doesn't make sense to me that traditional motorcycle dealers would carry Zero with lower sale margins and service revenues (and often without in-house technical expertise).
The Hollywood Electrics' seems a much better business model, and it shows. It's ludicrous that it's easier to get Zero parts/accessories from HE than from Bay Area dealers a few miles away from the factory!
Hollywood Electrics definitely provides a better customer experience, but this hinges on Harlan having a very good pro-active relationship with Zero.
Also, I'm not sure that one can take Hollywood Electrics' business model for granted. The fact that they picked up the Ubco 2x2 and have generally tried to diversify over the years suggests that they'd feel more secure without having to rely on Zero so strongly for servicing revenue, because (from what I've gleaned) Zero's dealership sales and servicing deals aren't exactly generous.
I don't think the Energica relationships are any better except by the investors pouring money into it, and Brammo sales were definitely terrible, so all I can say is that no one knows how to do this sustainably yet, and the economy is still broken, so try not to be a pain for anybody involved, please.
-
My 2016 SR just hit 10K miles; last time at dealer was 4K. Dealer is 40 miles away. A good local motorcycle shop is 1/2 mile away. Since I DO NOT want my software upgraded, but DO want someone with an expert eye to check out my bike ... am thinking I'll take it to the local guy. I'm sure he can do all the non-electrical stuph as well (and cheaper than) the dealer: check bearings, steering, brakes, etc. The one thing I'm curious about is "motor commissioning." I'm unsure how important -- or what -- this is. I've googled -- but all the top hits are quite technical (i.e, I've yet to find a simple explanation as to what commissioning is, and why I might need it). Since my bike's been running with no problems, I'm inclined to ignore it.
Motor commissioning is preventative maintenance, ensuring that the controller applies the magnetic field to the rotor in a perfectly-aligned way so that it doesn't wear on the bearings. It's analogous to fuel injection (EFI) tuning.
You basically don't need it, until you do, and there's not an easy set of symptoms identified to signal that commissioning is worth doing ahead of time. I think Zero's recommendation is a little aggressive but worth minding if you can.
We have a tiny handful of reports of failed motors that were traced to a lack of field alignment, and it's closer to catastrophic than gradual in its failure mode.
I really wish it could be done more casually; the Sevcon tooling isn't that hard to interpret.
-
Also, I'm not sure that one can take Hollywood Electrics' business model for granted. The fact that they picked up the Ubco 2x2 and have generally tried to diversify over the years suggests that they'd feel more secure without having to rely on Zero so strongly for servicing revenue, because (from what I've gleaned) Zero's dealership sales and servicing deals aren't exactly generous.
With HE's business model, I'm referring to the focus on (diversified) electric mobility on two (or less) wheels in urban context. It seems more sustainable because they are familiar with the core technology -batteries, motors and controllers- and, on the business side, with the target customers, mainly urban commuters with an interest in new/green technologies. In addition, they are used to working with smaller startups.
There must also be a turning point for Zero where direct sale and service (maybe only for the electrical aspects) becomes a more efficient and profitable solution. I wonder if Zero is looking into it and if the current sale numbers are close to that point.