ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Curt on July 14, 2018, 03:11:05 PM
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Last winter, I noticed that after a ride in the rain the front brakes would stop their howling for pretty much a whole week. I decided to test a theory and hosed down the front brakes. Lo and behold, they stopped squealing for a week.
Subsequently, I found that a quick splash from a water bottle works equally well! I have been doing that as needed for a few months now.
My only theory is that brake dust is washed away. However, I also tried blasts of compressed air, to no effect. I should also say that this bike sees an average of 60 mi/week with a lot of heavy braking.
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If you can find the Brembo pad p/n for your brake, I highly recommend trying them out. I've used both the carbon/ceramic and sintered compounds, both worked great & neither squealed. You may have to get them from Europe; I've ordered them from CarpiMoto and MotoRacingShop in Italy, both places got them to me in 4 days or less.
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Wondering how to find those numbers. My brakes suck too. Always grinding or squealing. Front and back.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
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Could it be that the pads are somehow porous and "like" to be saturated with water like a sponge?
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There is definitely something strange about the front pads on my 2018 S. They screech loudly and vibrate during the last three feet when stopping. However they don't make any noise at any other time. But they only do this when the pads are cold. When they get hot they do not make any noise when coming to a stop. ??? I am pretty sure that changing to a different set of brake pads will probably silence them, at least in my case. I might add that the original pads of my 2014 S, with its Nissin front brake caliper, never made any noise. They functioned just like you expect brakes to do. They stopped well and were quiet. :)
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Wondering how to find those numbers.
Brake Pad Lookup Chart (https://zeromanual.com/index.php/Brake_Pad_Lookup)
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There is also:
https://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Problems#Brake_Squeal
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Hi Brian,
Applying caliper grease to the backs of the pads doesn't work at all. I've attempted that several times with both conservative and liberal applications. Nor will attempting to "bed in" the pads, whatever that means, as pads obviously change shape throughout their life. Curiously, the odd recommendation to wash the bike jives with the observation here.
To test hubert's theory (whether the pads hydrate), perhaps I can try wetting the pads gently with a spray bottle without washing away the dust. I'm doubtful, because washing gets rid of the squeal for a week even if riding in 90 degree dry weather and leaving the bike to bake in the sun.
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Put some EBC pads like the HH semi sintered. They make a huge difference in feel and don’t squeal!
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I am also using EBC HH semi-sintered pads and like them.
YMMV is definitely the rule and not the exception with this very old issue with Zero brake pads. I wish I had better answers.
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I've actually got some HH sintered replacements waiting to install (looked them up in Brian's chart) but had not installed them yet. When I went to install them, I found the original pads were hardly worn. And I wasn't sure whether the EBC ones would end up squealing anyway. If you're saying they definitely don't, then I might consider installing them.
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I'm definitely saying YMMV = "your mileage may vary", as in we can only guess what will work for you.
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I have the EBC pads on my shelf and ready to be installed just as soon as the squeal finally drives me crazy enough to do something about it. ;)
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To be clear, this is the very first issue where I recall receiving condescension in the Zero world.
Basically I was told "you only hear it because there's no combustion engine noise".
This was insulting as I have a relatively quiet V-Strom 650 where I can clearly hear that the pads are quieter than on the Zero and do not squeal especially the way the 2013 DS pads did.
I tried these methods and eventually worked it out a reasonable reduction, but ultimately moving on to the 2016 DSR was better overall. Even then, on my DSR, I use sintered pads to keep unpleasant noises down.
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I've had periodic squeal issues on ICE bikes, and it is definitely not drowned out by engine noise. Generally the squeal goes away after a while. On the FX, it does not go away and people think I'm honking at them as I come up from behind.
Richard, have you tried dousing the calipers with water? I'm curious to get some corroboration.
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I've had periodic squeal issues on ICE bikes, and it is definitely not drowned out by engine noise. Generally the squeal goes away after a while. On the FX, it does not go away and people think I'm honking at them as I come up from behind.
Richard, have you tried dousing the calipers with water? I'm curious to get some corroboration.
I don't wash my Zero very often, but when I do I wash my bike and the discs and calipers with soapy water, clean them with a sponge, hose off the caliper with clear water, blow them and the rest of the bike dry with an electric blower and go for a ride to heat up the brakes and make sure that everything is completely dry. Doing that will usually stop the squealing for at least several days, then it returns. I once removed the front brake pads, cleaned everything thoroughly and sanded the pads to remove any possible glazing. That made them quiet for about a week or two, then the squeal returned. It is clear to me that J.Juan has selected the wrong brake pads and they are not comparable with their disc material or design, for some reason. ???
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I'm suggesting to forget all that and simply pour a glass of water over the calipers. That has been working for me.
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I'm wondering if maybe the water gets between the piston and the pad and dissipates just enough energy to keep audible oscillations from starting. It might take a few days to evaporate since things are fairly tight back there and there's not a lot of room for air to circulate.
If it's simply removing the worn brake particles that does the trick, a blast of air should do that too, and if that makes the squeal go away for a short while, it seems like it might be removing the wear particles....but if a shot of air doesn't work like the water does, it seems like the water itself is somehow causing the change.
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I have a little more information. It appears that hitting the pads with water before riding doesn't work, whereas wetting them after a ride results in sweet silence for about 100 miles.
So I will theorize that the water causes a thin layer of oxidation to form on the pad material, and the squeal goes away until it wears off. The silence may or may not come with reduced brake effectiveness, I don't know.
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Thanks for working on this hypothesis, everyone.
I recently started making separate pages for each kind of sound from the bike, and Brake Squeal is one of the first I separated.
I’ve added the water solution with a note and link to this thread:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Brake_Squeal
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There is definitely something strange about the front pads on my 2018 S. They screech loudly and vibrate during the last three feet when stopping. However they don't make any noise at any other time. But they only do this when the pads are cold. When they get hot they do not make any noise when coming to a stop. ??? I am pretty sure that changing to a different set of brake pads will probably silence them, at least in my case. I might add that the original pads of my 2014 S, with its Nissin front brake caliper, never made any noise. They functioned just like you expect brakes to do. They stopped well and were quiet. :)
It's the same on my 2017 FXS. The last few feet of braking sounds almost like a howl unless the rotors and pads are hot.
Kinda like this, but over a shorter duration for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFITphzeVY
I just assume the pads are a little more aggressive and racey than on every other street bike I've owned.
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There is definitely something strange about the front pads on my 2018 S. They screech loudly and vibrate during the last three feet when stopping. However they don't make any noise at any other time. But they only do this when the pads are cold. When they get hot they do not make any noise when coming to a stop. ??? I am pretty sure that changing to a different set of brake pads will probably silence them, at least in my case. I might add that the original pads of my 2014 S, with its Nissin front brake caliper, never made any noise. They functioned just like you expect brakes to do. They stopped well and were quiet. :)
It's the same on my 2017 FXS. The last few feet of braking sounds almost like a howl unless the rotors and pads are hot.
Kinda like this, but over a shorter duration for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFITphzeVY
I just assume the pads are a little more aggressive and racey than on every other street bike I've owned.
That is exactly what the front brake of my bike sounds like, but (as you say) over a distance of about three feet before coming to a complete stop. And when hot, the brake is are quiet. There is something strange about that front pad material. ???