ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: 96822 on January 29, 2015, 07:54:47 AM
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I know the 2015 motorcycles have just started shipping not long ago but I'm excited to see what Zero has in store for us in the near future. I'm a freshman in college and I've been following Zero Motorcycles since I was a freshman in high school and by 2016 I will have finally saved up enough to buy a Zero SR. What do you guys expect and hope to see in next year's line up?
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1) fairing
2) variable regen
3) reverse switch
4) cheaper off-board charging rig
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1) fairing
2) variable regen
3) reverse switch
4) cheaper off-board charging rig
I am a big fan of all of those Dan! Please see the other post about an aftermarket Zero specific fairing that is being considered to be designed by Craig Vetter himself. I want your input. A fairing that doubles range would make the need for charging a lot less obviously. Although both would be ideal! ;)
direct link to the thread on facebook is here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/783240805078463/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/783240805078463/)
In my opinion this is a huge potential. Doubling highway range would be the same as adding $10k worth of batteries or more (15.3 kWh to 30.6 kWh) which in all feasibility from cost, weight and space limitations would be impossible.
Terry
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the suspension and the brake has been improve a lot in 2015, but the brake are still not enought if you compared for exemple to a 690 duke ktm, a simple disk is enough but a 4 pistons radial will be good for 2016.
after a batterie with lithium air or other news thechnologie battereie will be fantastique lighter and more range ;-)
188 kg is to much for me, the s 2013 was 175 kg, the dream for me would be 150 kg for 25 kwh batterie and the same power than the sr is enought 50kw 150nm torque
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1) Better on-board charging.
2) Better on-board charging.
I know technically that's only one point, but it was such an important point I thought I'd mention it twice.
(with a Tip-of-the-Lithium-battery to Robert Llewellyn...)
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But to be more serious.
The S range of Zero bikes is in a pretty good place right now, range is acceptable, the bike is reliable enough (granted its not Honda reliable, but its better than many) and its a stable platform.
I'd like to see Zero start to work on the price point of the bike as well as features. Pipe dream I know given the current $/Wh, but I'd like to see Zero work to bring the bike down into the sub $10k range. Obviously this would require a drop in the price of lithium batteries, so I don't expect it for 2016.
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Stock j1772 charge port with 5-6kw of charging would negate the need for more battery, with the option of using the stock cable for overnight/visiting, so no need to carry an evse, I also like the idea of 15k for the price in the 15kw battery range, I got a quote for a 2015 ds with powertank of $24,500 cdn, needless to say I'm not a zero owner yet!
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On board fast charging. My personal preference is 10kW for RV parks or at least 7.2kW for J1772 plugs. However, 4-5kW is more likely.
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1) J1772
2) Price
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Better charging in the cold too!!!
I'm about to undertake a "challenging" ride home soon due to the chargers failing to come on at near zero temps (2C-3C)...
(13% battery left, 22 miles to ride, I won't be doing that any any sort of high speed...)
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Chargers will not come on when the pack is below 32 degrees F Justin.
Example. This morning it was 20 degrees F and I drove into work @ 60mph for 30 minutes. Plugged the bike in and it didn't start charging. By the time I packed up all my gear on the bike and unloaded my work stuff the bike started to charge. The whole time it was plugged in I could hear the relay on the chargers clicking as they were trying to "turn on" but the BMS was denying them the ability to do their job so they didn't initiate a charge.
So the chargers shouldn't be failing ... it is working as intended. Unless there is some information not mentioned.
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Yes, I'd like to toss in another vote for some sort of fast charging, whether it's onboard or fits in my saddlebags, I don't care. It should be optional however, to keep the price of the base model acceptable. (I was about to say "low" but um...)
I see a standard sportbike fairing as useless. Unless it's a comprehensive Electric-Terrry/Vetter-style unit, I prefer my naked bike.
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Chargers will not come on when the pack is below 32 degrees F Justin.
Example. This morning it was 20 degrees F and I drove into work @ 60mph for 30 minutes. Plugged the bike in and it didn't start charging. By the time I packed up all my gear on the bike and unloaded my work stuff the bike started to charge. The whole time it was plugged in I could hear the relay on the chargers clicking as they were trying to "turn on" but the BMS was denying them the ability to do their job so they didn't initiate a charge.
So the chargers shouldn't be failing ... it is working as intended. Unless there is some information not mentioned.
Well temps are above 32F here, the pack temp is around 40F. I'm concerned that both charging locations are in what are effectively wind tunnels, which is depressing the chargers switching on.
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I just want more range. I don't care about fast charging as I don't like to stop when I am riding long enough to recharge anything. Plus, there is usually no electricity available where I like to ride. :o
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Better charging in the cold too!!!
I'm about to undertake a "challenging" ride home soon due to the chargers failing to come on at near zero temps (2C-3C)...
(13% battery left, 22 miles to ride, I won't be doing that any any sort of high speed...)
So you mean battery heaters!
Brammo uses them and they are a great benefit for me as my bike is always outside.
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3) reverse switch
You can easily ad a reverse switch to any Zero from 2013 on (Maybe even earlier). I added a reverse switch to my 2013 FX after learning how to do it (information from Zero eng) on my Zero e-trike conversion, which used the 2013 Powertrain.
At first I didn't think I would use it much on the lightweight FX but I have surprised myself at how much I do use it. Very handy!
One thing I should have done, had I thought of it, would have been to use a double pole switch to sound a beeper, when in reverse, so that I wouldn't accidentally start out in reverse. Hasn't happened yet, but could. :o
Trikester
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I would like to see lighter weight and a lower seat ht.....but I don't think I'm going to get it. I would like faster acceleration too...like zero to sixty in 2.8 seconds.
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I agree with seat height. Not for me, but some friends want to get one and they are too tall right now. Also, another style would be awesome. Chrome anyone?
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I would like faster acceleration too...like zero to sixty in 2.8 seconds.
I don't think any acceleration improvement beyond the SR will sell bikes. They'd have to switch to a chain at that point, anyway.
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A really fast onboard charger is probably the biggest ticket to growth for Zero. Maybe that means an incompatible voltage jump for the battery stack, and maybe not.
Nice options to have: variable regen control, limited reverse gear, traction control (for all that torque on bad/wet surfaces), and a fairing.
I haven't had to mod my bike for the reverse gear, etc., but my warrantee expires soon so that'd be prime time.
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3) reverse switch
You can easily ad a reverse switch to any Zero from 2013 on (Maybe even earlier). I added a reverse switch to my 2013 FX after learning how to do it (information from Zero eng) on my Zero e-trike conversion, which used the 2013 Powertrain.
At first I didn't think I would use it much on the lightweight FX but I have surprised myself at how much I do use it. Very handy!
One thing I should have done, had I thought of it, would have been to use a double pole switch to sound a beeper, when in reverse, so that I wouldn't accidentally start out in reverse. Hasn't happened yet, but could. :o
Trikester
I thought I read somewhere that the Sevcon controller software needs to be changed to allow the reverse function. Wouldn't that require special hardware and interface to change that?
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The reason a 2.8 second zero to sixty acceleration time would sell is because suddenly the Zero would become the fastest production bike on the market. It would sell for the same reason people buy race bikes and never take them to the track...because of the aura of something special and unique. I would buy one and I'm am old guy. Lots of bikes go 3.3 seconds zero to sixty. All the 600s and liter race bikes, for example. Thing is, it would be fairly easy, I think, for Zero to make a bike that accelerates that fast. The press coverage would be phenomenal. The fastest production bike zero to sixty according to Wikepedia is the 2008 Gixxer 1000 at 2.8 sec., so I guess the zero would have to go 2.79 sec. It would be a fantastic hill climber too. Range might be an issue though riding like that.
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The reason a 2.8 second zero to sixty acceleration time would sell is because suddenly the Zero would become the fastest production bike on the market. It would sell for the same reason people buy race bikes and never take them to the track...because of the aura of something special and unique. I would buy one and I'm am old guy. Lots of bikes go 3.3 seconds zero to sixty. All the 600s and liter race bikes, for example. Thing is, it would be fairly easy, I think, for Zero to make a bike that accelerates that fast. The press coverage would be phenomenal. The fastest production bike zero to sixty according to Wikepedia is the 2008 Gixxer 1000 at 2.8 sec., so I guess the zero would have to go 2.79 sec. It would be a fantastic hill climber too. Range might be an issue though riding like that.
The question is whether they'd gain more riders and profit per investment versus making a bike with better utility and appealing outside the amped-up sports market. IMO, Zero needs a marketing angle like the "you meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign.
But then, I've never liked fast bikes once I got on them.
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I suppose. No reason Zero couldn't put out a sexy hooligan bike and a refined, nice guy bike. Personally, I'd go for the hooligan bike....light and fast. I would have to be able to touch the ground with my feet though.
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I would like to see a hand brake on the left bar. I find a hand brake easier to use than a foot brake. Whenever I hop on my scooter I feel that I have much better control of the brakes using two hands. As for the 0-60 time, I think the bike has enough torque as-is to get to sixty under 3 seconds but the torque is not all delivered from a standstill. It does not jump off the line. I don't know if Zero is afraid of breaking belts or if they don't want us going over backwards but there is certainly more power to be had at take-off judging from the incredible roll-on once all the torque is available.
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Fast j1772 charging, 100 mile hwy range, my work only has j1772 for electricar charging etc, no plugs! I maybe a single example of a slightly progressive workplace but this is the tipping point for me, no j1772 no charge , I won't buy without it! (I see that the zero website says it might work with some j1772 , but for the price they ask I want complete compliance no compromise ) brammo did it 3 MY ago!
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I thought I read somewhere that the Sevcon controller software needs to be changed to allow the reverse function. Wouldn't that require special hardware and interface to change that?
Yes, I took it to Harlan to do the software change, so I don't know how it could be done when that isn't an option.
Trikester
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Ndm,
If you want the ability to charge at 100% of the J1772 systems then Zero is not the bike for you! Right now GE Wattstations will not charge a Zero because it requires communication with the Zero's BMS and it isn't set up for that. I also tried a PEP station and could not charge and I suspect the same issue. But the list of J1772 systems that do work with the Zero is pretty long and I doubt you will have a problem charging. Some of the models that do work include Eaton, Clipper Creek, Aerovironment, Bosch, Blink, Chargepoint, Schneider, Models at Ford dealers. and probably a few others I am forgetting. But the way the Zero is set up makes it very easy to make an adapter for NEMA 14-50 plugs so you can charge at campgrounds.
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Get a J1772 from Harlan and you can charge anywhere in the US. I've gone coast to coast 3 times and charged everywhere! Never have range anxiety again! Just go! I never look to where the next charge station is, I just pick a road and go! When I get low, 20%, I pull up chargepoint on my iPhone and pick the closest one with a restaurant and charge while I pee and eat and when I'm done the bike is already full long before I was done eating. Get the fast charge kit from Hollywood Electrics and never worry about range again! It's just so simple and easy I must say every Zero should have 6kW charging and you can go anywhere anytime and never think about it. Just ride!
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I think zero are very fortunate as a company to have such committed and passionate people behind their products, Harlan in particular has advanced their machines far more than they might know, I understand there are a myriad of options out there in the aftermarket , having a faster charging system stock on the bike would open the door to people who don't want to void the warranty on their pricey new machine
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Bring back the MX.
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Bring back the MX.
You can still buy one
Even the mmx which is the real bike you want...
Someone said it but left bar side rear brake would make it easier on trails and um stunting around, I mean normal city riding.
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You can still buy one
Even the mmx which is the real bike you want...
Not according to both the people I spoke to Zero. After my deposit on a 2013 MX was returned due to unavailability, Jeff Jolin (W.C. regional sales manager) told me MX production had been stopped to allow more FX's to be produced. Later on, a lady I spoke to in the Zero sales dept. (didn't catch her name) laughed when I asked about buying an MMX, and said they were for sale only to military, law enforcement, etc.
If you know some way for a regular civilian to purchase an MMX, please share.
Ray
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When I purchased the '13 FX / MX Powertrain from Zero to begin converting my gas trike to electric, I also received a schematic (can't share it). I was puzzled by extra connections shown on the schematic that my Powertrain cable didn't have. Upon inquiring, I found out that the schematic was for the MMX (which also works for the MX). That explained the additional connections shown for MMX functions that are not on the MX.
Trikester
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1. Lower seat height
2. Cruiser styling
I would consider upgrading to a 2016 model from my current 2014 S , if these 2 were addressed. At 5ft 6'', a lower seat is definitely something I could do with.
I find the 2014 S power and charging time adequate for my use (80 mile commute to work and back each day) , although it never hurts to get higher range and shorter charging times. :)
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1) Aerodynamic, sport bike fairing (for 300$ factory price we could have 20+% better highway range)
2) integrated J1772 like the Brammo, not a cable hanging looking DIY in a 13~20k $ vehicle...
3) Better integration of the battery box (looks like a brick inside a curvaceous sexy machine)
4) Standard charging 3,3 kW (not for extra 2k $)
5) 2 modes of charging: std and Life extending mode (4.1V/cell instead of 4.2V)
"Terry Hershner has found that fast charging has little (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3311.msg17712#msg17712) effect on the batteries and that keeping them at a high state of charge has a greater effect. He has only quick charged his batteries for more than 50,000 miles and they still hold a full charge."
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/K%20T%20M/FAIRING3_zps48c86c10.jpg)
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I would like to see a softer seat. My butt starts to hurt after about an hour of riding. The new seats are not nearly as bad as the pre-2013 model seats, but they still are harder than they need to be, in my opinion. Now that the Zero is pretty well sorted technically, except for needing a real Level 2 charging option, it is time to address the little stuff. ;)
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Are you saying you have a little butt, Richard? ("time to address the little stuff") LOL. After owning a Grom, my 13 S seat is like a feather pillow. Actually, it seems to fit me really well, not forcing me forward the way some do, but it is firm. I have an 8.5 battery too so my rides aren't as long as yours which may be a difference. It is a hard material unlike any other bike I've had. My FZ07 has a seat that acts like memory foam.
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No more design improvements (except optional add-on L2 charging). Prices need to start coming down. The high purchase price stops many people (dealers and customers) from considering a purchase.
I bought an SR, and I love it. I appreciate the long term value (as do others on this forum), but most motorcycle buyers will look at the price tag and move on. Many dealerships won't carry electrics for this (and other) reason.
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It's not just looking at the price tag. I would like a Zero, but indeed, the price slows me down, because even if on the long term it may be interesting, i am not fortunate enough to buy it in the first place. So i looking at used ones, but in France there are not a lot of them.
If i could have the extra money i will save in advance, i could buy it! ;D
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there is somme on leboncoin
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/760409622.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/760409622.htm?ca=21_s)
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/760572560.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/760572560.htm?ca=21_s) carefull this one is only 8.5 batterie
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/736571980.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/736571980.htm?ca=21_s)
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/10958.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/10958.htm?ca=21_s)
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/10881.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/10881.htm?ca=21_s)
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/11068.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/11068.htm?ca=21_s)
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/755714296.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/755714296.htm?ca=21_s)
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/693696774.htm?ca=21_s (http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/693696774.htm?ca=21_s)
where do you live?
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Thanks, but I check it everyday !
The 8.5 is actually reserved but if it becomes free again, i can have it for 6500€, so that is the one i am looking at for now, even if i would prefer a 11.5 because i think 8.5 is a bit limited on the range.
But if this one goes, i will have to check for 9000€ max, because i can not really afford much.
And i live in Tours, and you?
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06 near Grasse
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and what about something like this:
http://jmvdesign.deviantart.com/art/Zero-Motorcycles-ZERO-C-Electric-Cafe-Racer-397924624 (http://jmvdesign.deviantart.com/art/Zero-Motorcycles-ZERO-C-Electric-Cafe-Racer-397924624)
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and what about something like this:
http://jmvdesign.deviantart.com/art/Zero-Motorcycles-ZERO-C-Electric-Cafe-Racer-397924624 (http://jmvdesign.deviantart.com/art/Zero-Motorcycles-ZERO-C-Electric-Cafe-Racer-397924624)
That is a very nice looking design, but every time I see an open space on a motorcycle I think that there is room for more batteries. ;)