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Author Topic: Need help interpreting the MBB log  (Read 1068 times)

DonTom

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2020, 11:54:18 AM »

Well, aren't the Quick Charger units 1000W?

-Crissa
Yep, the OBC is around 1.3KW and the DeltaQ chargers are around an even KW in output power.

Ten amps is about right for the input current draw on the QCs and around 13 amps for the OBC.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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JaimeC

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2020, 07:03:29 PM »

Well, the bike was up to 100% this morning and no flashing lights so this will work as a circumvention until I hear back from Zero.  Good thing I had that charger on hand!
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TheRan

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2020, 07:29:37 PM »

Just don't jump to any conclusions and assume your OBC is dying, because that did charge to 100% too with no issues at one point. Keep using the Delta for now and if/when the issue happens again that will rule out the charger being at fault (well, unless there's a connection issue between the OBC and the battery and not an issue with the charger itself).
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JaimeC

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2020, 07:59:34 PM »

The latest MBB log is in my dealer's hands and they will be communicating with Zero.  I'll check with them this afternoon to see if they've heard anything back.
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Richard230

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2020, 08:42:25 PM »

Well, aren't the Quick Charger units 1000W?

-Crissa
Yep, the OBC is around 1.3KW and the DeltaQ chargers are around an even KW in output power.

Ten amps is about right for the input current draw on the QCs and around 13 amps for the OBC.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

I have never seen 13 amps from the OBC on my Kill-A-Watt meter. The maximum draw from my wall outlet of my new charger is 11.85 amps, right before it shuts down. I'll let you figure out what the actual amps to the battery pack is, but I know for sure that some of that power is turned into heat.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

TheRan

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2020, 08:54:45 PM »

Well, aren't the Quick Charger units 1000W?

-Crissa
Yep, the OBC is around 1.3KW and the DeltaQ chargers are around an even KW in output power.

Ten amps is about right for the input current draw on the QCs and around 13 amps for the OBC.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

I have never seen 13 amps from the OBC on my Kill-A-Watt meter. The maximum draw from my wall outlet of my new charger is 11.85 amps, right before it shuts down. I'll let you figure out what the actual amps to the battery pack is, but I know for sure that some of that power is turned into heat.  ;)
That's pretty much bang on 1300W at 110V, at a typical efficiency of 92% that's 1200W to the battery (the app should show around 10-11A). Through the app I've seen up to around 1500W and charging amps around 12-13A.
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DonTom

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2020, 09:35:16 PM »

That's pretty much bang on 1300W at 110V, at a typical efficiency of 92% that's 1200W to the battery (the app should show around 10-11A). Through the app I've seen up to around 1500W and charging amps around 12-13A.
In the USA it's really closer to 120 VAC these days, but many still call it "110". I have never seen it that low anywhere. In fact, around 122 VAC (unloaded) is quite common, 117 VAC is average and that is what I just measured here.   117 VAC at 13 amps is  1,521 watts AC input, so around 1500 W input should be expected. 1369 DC  watts output if 90% efficient, with  around 137 watts wasted in heat.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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TheRan

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2020, 09:52:29 PM »

That's pretty much bang on 1300W at 110V, at a typical efficiency of 92% that's 1200W to the battery (the app should show around 10-11A). Through the app I've seen up to around 1500W and charging amps around 12-13A.
In the USA it's really closer to 120 VAC these days, but many still call it "110". I have never seen it that low anywhere. In fact, around 122 VAC (unloaded) is quite common, 117 VAC is average and that is what I just measured here.   117 VAC at 13 amps is  1,521 watts AC input, so around 1500 W input should be expected. 1369 DC  watts output if 90% efficient, with  around 137 watts wasted in heat.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
If he's getting 120V then he's pulling 1422W and putting 1308W to the battery which is much more reasonable and to be expected.

Here in the UK we also see around 240V instead of 220V (it should be 230V +10% -6%, so anywhere from 216V to 253V).
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DonTom

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2020, 11:26:06 PM »

I have never seen 13 amps from the OBC on my Kill-A-Watt meter. The maximum draw from my wall outlet of my new charger is 11.85 amps, right before it shuts down. I'll let you figure out what the actual amps to the battery pack is, but I know for sure that some of that power is turned into heat.  ;)
The current drops down quite a bit near the end. Check at around 50% SOC and see what the current is.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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Crissa

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2020, 11:56:03 PM »

Just so it doesn't look like I only post to argue, Don and TheRan here match my observations ^-^ So they're on the money.

-Crissa
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TEV

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2020, 02:44:12 AM »

Just so it doesn't look like I only post to argue .....

-Crissa

I believe that that horse left the barn 1000 posts ago 😁
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Richard230

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2020, 04:00:12 AM »

I have never seen 13 amps from the OBC on my Kill-A-Watt meter. The maximum draw from my wall outlet of my new charger is 11.85 amps, right before it shuts down. I'll let you figure out what the actual amps to the battery pack is, but I know for sure that some of that power is turned into heat.  ;)
The current drops down quite a bit near the end. Check at around 50% SOC and see what the current is.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

My current draw at 50% is about 10.5 amps for my 2018 S.  I have watched the current draw as SOC reaches 100% and right as it shuts off. (I also like to watch paint dry.  ;) ) There is no tapering. The charger just shuts down instantly and the power drops to 5 watts as it goes on standby.  When I then check my cell balance I see 2-3 mV.  Perhaps my bike's BMS has decided that my battery pack doesn't need an balancing regimen.  That was not the case with my 2014 S. It would taper down for a while before the charger shut down.
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DonTom

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2020, 04:49:53 AM »

My current draw at 50% is about 10.5 amps for my 2018 S.  I have watched the current draw as SOC reaches 100% and right as it shuts off. (I also like to watch paint dry.  ;) ) There is no tapering. The charger just shuts down instantly and the power drops to 5 watts as it goes on standby.  When I then check my cell balance I see 2-3 mV.  Perhaps my bike's BMS has decided that my battery pack doesn't need an balancing regimen.  That was not the case with my 2014 S. It would taper down for a while before the charger shut down.
Come to think about it, perhaps no need for it to lower much when you're only charging with 1.3KW from the OBC. I usually charge with more than 6KW and the drop in charge rate is quite noticeable near the end.  Even lower if I start the charge at a high SOC. Not sure what the BMS is doing, or perhaps it's the charger program. Perhaps it has a lot to do with temperature as well. But if I try to start a charge at 80% SOC at 6KW, I will be lucky if it charges at 2 KW. But if I am at 50%, it will still continue to charge at above 6WK when I get to 80% SOC. I do NOT claim to know what is going on, it's just what I have noticed. Perhaps my Elcons do not like to charge fully when they are started at a higher voltage. Or could the BMS be doing such? I really have no idea what causes such.

But I now know to NOT recharge until I get below 80% SOC. But there are times when I am going far enough that I want all the charge possible when I see a charge station on the way. So then adding the Elcons make very little difference as most of the charging is then done with the OBC anyway. So I can still charge below 2 KW, and then I have little  need to get the Elcons out, but it takes too long to charge at that rate when on a trip, so I try to avoid it and take my chances on my range by riding a bit slower than I normally would.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
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JaimeC

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2020, 10:00:23 PM »

Update:  FINALLY heard back.  Zero wants me to bring the bike into the dealership so they can trouble shoot the problem.  Lord knows how long that's gonna take and how long it'll be off the road.  On the bright side, this IS why I have more than one motorcycle in my garage.  Guess the XMAX will be "in service" until I get the S back.  Dropping it off on Saturday.  The XMAX needs a new rear tire, but that's something that I can wait for when it finally comes in.
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JaimeC

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Re: Need help interpreting the MBB log
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2020, 01:32:02 AM »

Well, I ended up bringing the bike in yesterday as this is the last month on the warranty and I won't be around for the next couple of weeks (heading to Indianapolis on Wednesday on the K1200LT).  The bike has not glitched out using the OBC since the last time though I've been using it every time TRYING to get it to act up again.  The dealer will work with Zero to run a full battery of diagnostics and see what's what.  The fact that it glitched out twice in succession has me concerned and I don't understand why it hasn't happened again.  Talk about electric gremlins!!

Other than that, the bike has been pretty reliable and trouble-free other than that weird problem with the belt last year.  So far the new one is holding up (but to prevent the backing from drying out I've been wiping it down with Armor-All once a month just in case. Doing so also forces me to check its condition).
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