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[MVetter]

If you do not have the tools to deal with a potential 15kWh of exploding batteries you have to stand back and let it burn. It's basically ordinance at that point. Guess what? They detonate old ordinance.

[Shadow]

How would you cool the bike's battery pack?

Dipping it in water is one way, but not always possible.

-Crissa

Liquid N2 *maybe*?

That reaction (Lithium + O2) produces its own heat so good luck with this.

[Crissa]

If you do not have the tools...

I've tried to be polite, but what information do you think you're imparting?

I asked what the tools were, and you said 'run away'.

That's not a useful answer.  That's entirely situational.

-Crissa

[MVetter]

Fuck if I care if you think you're polite. A few years ago Raul Rodriguez was trying to make the first EV to do the baja 1000. He tapped Brandon for charging. They had built several 36kWh battery packs they could hot swap into their Team Phoenix EV. Two of the packs resided in a pickup truck bed, pulling a 70kW generator which was charging both packs while driving.

The sole "fire protection" was a 1kWh fire extinguisher made of metal which was in the center of the window behind the cab, more or less linking the two packs.

I get that you don't have a solid grasp on how batteries work. When the adults say, "run", run. Worry about whose feelings your upsetting later.

[Oldun]

From our fire dept:

Call the fire dept. If you have one and can do so safely, use only Class B fire extinguishers.


From FEMA:

Secure a large, continuous and sustainable water supply — one or more fire hydrants or multiple water tenders. Use a large volume of water such as master stream, 2 1/2-inch or multiple 1 3/4-inch fire lines to suppress and cool the fire and the battery. Treat all conductive surfaces as if they are energized until they are proven to be safe.

[NEW2elec]

They have videos of some foam makers that they show smothering a few cells in controlled conditions.  One of them claims to arrest the toxic vapors while, just water, won't.

But even in there own demonstrations it took a lot of foam just to put out even laptop sized batteries.

So water as a cooling agent could help if caught early enough but as it burns and creates shorts and it's own thermal heat source.
It's a tough situation.

Oldun, class C extinguishers are for live electrical fires. But most are A B C units anyway.

For what it's worth, the video had the guy yelling what Morgan said to kids getting too close to video the bike with their phones.

[Crissa]

Fuck if I care if you think you're polite.  I get that you don't have a solid grasp on how batteries work. When the adults say, "run", run. Worry about whose feelings your upsetting later.

Yes, I do see that you have a little story, a few insults, a bit of profanity, and absolutely nothing to add to the conversation.  How old are you, anyhow?

Thank you oldun.  That's about the extent of my knowledge as well.  The only way to extinguish it is to reduce the temperature, since the reaction needs only heat to continue, it has the two components that are reacting already inside the cells.

-Crissa

[Oldun]

It's a tough situation.

Oldun, class C extinguishers are for live electrical fires. But most are A B C units anyway.

Makes me wonder if I should call my fire dept if this happens!

[Eicas]

I looked at the Livewire, it seemed like a nice bike that would easily fulfill all of my needs. Both the Livewire and the Zero are sold within a few mikes of my home so I could compare them more or less side by side.

However, being a Buell rider who was disappointed by the way they dropped my all time favorite bike two years after I bought mine gave me reservations about buying one.  Saw them do the same thing with Aermacchi and VRSC.  Then add the additional cost of a Livewire and I could not pull the trigger on a Livewire and bought a ZERO SR/S. 

No guarantees in life, but I want a dealer, brand, group, etc. that will support my purchase and I could not trust Harley to do that.

Hope Livewire makes it, it really seems like a nice bike, but I for one did not have enough confidence in the models longevity to purchase one.

[DonTom]

Then add the additional cost of a Livewire and I could not pull the trigger on a Livewire and bought a ZERO SR/S.

Great choice, IMO. The SR/S is my favorite bike from Zero and IMO, it has mostly advantages over the Harley LW.


I have been tempted on the Zero SR/S myself.



-Don-  Reno, NV

[Oldun]

I hope that for the sake of those contemplating a Zero purchase, that Zero have changed their attitude to people seeking after-sales support in countries where there is not even one Zero dealer. That is a really big deal - lacking everything from service under warranty to parts availability to online diagnostics to simple 'talk-support' is why I will never buy a Zero unless and until they change their practice.

A lot of people badmouth Harley but over many years I've not been let down by the H-D dealerships in the UK, US, SA, NZ, Australia, and Canada when I went long distance touring and needed tires, parts and service. (A similar degree of support was always available in the US for my Boss Hoss bikes although they have nearly two orders of magnitude fewer dealers compared to H-D).

[Shadow]

...A lot of people badmouth Harley but over many years I've not been let down by the H-D dealerships in the UK, US, SA, NZ, Australia, and Canada when I went long distance touring and needed tires, parts and service. (A similar degree of support was always available in the US for my Boss Hoss bikes although they have nearly two orders of magnitude fewer dealers compared to H-D).

You toured UK, US, SA, NZ, Australia, and Canada, on a Livewire? 

[DonTom]

A lot of people badmouth Harley

I was once a Harley hater as every model they had was junk, IMO. I have ridden many-none I could stand until I rode a Buddy's Road Glide Special. The next day I bought my Roadglide Ultra which is the most comply bike I have ever been on. It's my choice for long trips.


Harley does some little things right. Such as the oil dipstick that can be used on the sidestand or the center stand. A horn that will blow cars off the road (only stock horn I have not changed), Hydraulic valves that need no adjustments ever.


But they still do some small things wrong. Such as cheap rubber stems on the tires on  a 35K$ bike. I will change that on the first tire change.


FWIW, I have taken a test drive on the LW. I didn't like it at all. But it sure looks very high quality to me. But I would take a Zero SR/S or any Energica over a LW any day for many reasons.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Squelch]

As someone who owned a Buell, I have to say that even though there is a massive world-wide H-D dealership network, it doesn't mean that they will all support the Livewire. Even the ones who sell it or have the mechanics to work on it may not be very supportive of it. I sincerely hope it becomes accepted by the company and all the dealers (same with the Pan America) but I wouldn't count on it. I'm waiting on an Energica to be delivered, so I know the dealer network is minuscule compared to the H-D network. But the number of good Buell-supporting H-D dealers was pretty minuscule too, even though it was an H-D product.

[DonTom]

As someone who owned a Buell, I have to say that even though there is a massive world-wide H-D dealership network, it doesn't mean that they will all support the Livewire.

Yep. Not even in the Tucson, AZ HD shop. Need to go to the  Phoenix HD shop to buy the LW.


Same issue with the BMW electric scooter. No BMW shops in all of Nevada will work on it, not even in Las Vegas.



But IMO, HD should at least put the CCS charge stations in ALL of their shops, but they don't. The Reno HD dealer has such, but not in Carson City because the Carson City shop does not sell the LW. And all Zero shops should have a J-1772 plug outside.


-Don-  Reno, NV