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[Crilly]

Ok, I live in the Milwaukee area.  So I am partial to Harley.  My Livewire is my 4th electric 2 wheeler. I have 1400 miles on it now.  3500 miles on my SR/F.  I like ccs charging.  I like level 2 charging.  It would be nice to have them both in one bike.  I still need to ride the Livewire down to 0 soc.  The Livewire still has close to full power below 10 soc.  They both handle great.  I like the regen on the Livewire.  Progressive is a lot nicer than off or on.  They get about the same range.  They are set up the same.  Both have Zero touring windshield.  Tour pak on the back.  Electric grips. And heat controllers for my electric gear. 

Now for a little Harley bashing.  In order to setup the Livewire I had to do it myself.  We live in Wisconsin, weather changes in a second.  Tour packs are a necessity.  So is heated gear.  Lately Harley has just been building bar hoppers.

Also because of the cold both bikes should have 12 volt lead acid batteries like BMW scooters.

Having a heated garage is a good thing to have with ev’s.

More later

[DonTom]

I like ccs charging.  I like level 2 charging.  It would be nice to have them both in one bike.

Sounds like you should have looked into the Energicas. But they would be a hassle to buy out there. At least the Harley dealers are everywhere. But not all the HD dealers deal with the LW.

I  was surprised to hear a 30K$ modern electric motorcycle doesn't have true L2 charging.

I have not yet seen a LW, but I will check the Harley shops before I leave this area next week.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[MVetter]

I'd still love to get actual charging data in regards to operating voltage and amps delivered at various SOC at the stations. One LiveWire owner in Washington delivered a good start of data, and the guy in LA has apologized for being too busy. Eventually we'll get there...

[DonTom]

I'd still love to get actual charging data in regards to operating voltage and amps delivered at various SOC at the stations. One LiveWire owner in Washington delivered a good start of data, and the guy in LA has apologized for being too busy. Eventually we'll get there...

I have used Harley chargers a few times on my Energica, from different cities. The most they will ever charge at is 15 KW on my bike regardless of SOC. But EV-Go and others will do the full 26KW at times, but usually a few KW less, depending on my SOC and I think other variables, such as heat. But always above the 15 KW I get from the Harley ChargePoints.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[MVetter]

The H-D branded DC Fast stations are literally just 50 amp Chargepoint stations with H-D stickers. That's also not what I'm asking about.

[DonTom]

The H-D branded DC Fast stations are literally just 50 amp Chargepoint stations with H-D stickers. That's also not what I'm asking about.

They have to be more than that. 240 VAC times 50 amps is only 12 KW. My Energica charges on the HD chargers at 15 KW which is 63 amps.

240 times 63 amps= 15,120 Watts.

However, IIRC, the Livewire can only accept 12 KW charging.

BTW, what were you asking about?

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[MVetter]

You are confused. What I mean by a 50 amp station is it outputs a maximum of 50 amps. Now, as they rate EV stations they use a BASELINE voltage at the EV maximum, which is 500 volts. I don't know if any vehicles actually operate at 500 volts, but that's how they measure it. 50 amps x 500 volts = 25kW. That's why it's called a 25kW station.

The EVgos you mention that claim to be 50kW stations are merely 100 amps. Because 100A x 500V = 50000W. The important bit is that vehicles operate at different voltages. The amp number is set in stone, but the voltages fluctuate. You notice when you charge your Energica you can set the requested Amps? With yours I'm assuming it's an 80 Amp request. Energicas operate between ~280-340 VDC. This means at near empty, the bike will request around 80 x 280 = 22.4kW. They'll actually request more amps than that sometimes because they're awesome.

As it nears full, the voltage has been rising the whole time. 80 Amps x 320 Volts = 25.6kW.

A LiveWire operates somewhere in the mid-high 200 VDC range. Therefore a 50 amp station, as found at H-D dealerships, is going to deliver somewhere around (50A x 260V =) 13kW for a LiveWire and (50A x 300V =) 15kW for an Energica. If a Zero was able to accept CCS charging, at the same 50 Amp station it would get (50A x 102V =) 5.1kW. yaaaay.

[Crissa]

Why wouldn't the Livewire be able to take a J-plug?  It doesn't have an onboard charger?

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Why wouldn't the Livewire be able to take a J-plug?  It doesn't have an onboard charger?

-Crissa

CCS will always accept a J-plug. But what is really stupid (IMO) is the 30K$ Harley charges much like your and my Zeros. No true L2 charging.   It charges at the same KW at 240 VAC as 120 VAC, just as your and my Zeros do.

The SR/F charges at a higher rate on 240 VAC. So does my Energica. That is true L2 charging.

The type of plug it uses is not the issue. That is easy to convert. The issue is the L2 charge rate.

-Don-  In 70F. Tucson, AZ (RV)

[DonTom]

You are confused. What I mean by a 50 amp station is it outputs a maximum of 50 amps. Now, as they rate EV stations they use a BASELINE voltage at the EV maximum, which is 500 volts. I don't know if any vehicles actually operate at 500 volts, but that's how they measure it. 50 amps x 500 volts = 25kW. That's why it's called a 25kW station.

No, they are confused (IMAO!).

Why is this EV stuff not follow the simple rules and give actual true numbers? Even the 116 Volt Zero chargers are called "96 volts". Who comes up with this BS of changing the standard from the actual true numbers for EVs?  And what purpose could it possibly have that a volt is not a volt and an amp is not an amp?

It sure seems incredibly stupid to me, unless there is a very good reason for it (which I doubt!).

-Don-   Tucson, AZ (RV)

[MVetter]

Larger numbers sound more impressive which is why internet and phone data plans are marketed in bits instead of Bytes (Mb vs. MB). A Byte is 8 bits so it sounds much more impressive for them to offer you internet with speeds of up to 1000 Mbps and not up to 125 MBps.

Just gotta roll with it and slog through the bullshit, man.

[DonTom]

Larger numbers sound more impressive which is why internet and phone data plans are marketed in bits instead of Bytes (Mb vs. MB). A Byte is 8 bits so it sounds much more impressive for them to offer you internet with speeds of up to 1000 Mbps and not up to 125 MBps.

Just gotta roll with it and slog through the bullshit, man.

Yeah, I see your point. If one uses the higher BS numbers, then everybody has to follow the same BS or it could be bad for sales. It sometimes doesn't pay to be honest.

Yeah, I keep on forgetting that this world runs on BS. Especially green BS. But I will try to look at the good side. It's the one resource we will never run out of. It's everywhere.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[Crilly]

I got the 1000 mile service done yesterday, 1500 miles.  It took a while to get the supplies.
A qt of oil $44.00,  gasket $50.00, plus an O ring.  I am loving the bike a lot, as well as my SR/F.  Electric’s are so much easier to ride smooth.  Plus riding is all about torque.

[NEW2elec]

Hi Crilly, besides being way over priced what was the oil for?  I'm trying to remember but I think it was oil cooled motor, "liquid" cooled controller and air cooled battery.
I'd chalk that first oil change up to new system over precaution.  Since it's just a cooling medium it should be fine for a much longer distance.

Glad your enjoying the bike(s).

[Crilly]

There is a gear box. Reducer.  1000 mile change, next 20,000 miles.