ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: flexydude on June 17, 2014, 10:05:25 AM
-
My 2012 zf9 quit at 3000 miles last year. Since the nearest dealer is over 8 hours away, zero sent a truck to pick the bike up and take it to the factory, and returned it 6 weeks later, supposedly fixed. At 9000 miles it quit again, but this time I just sent the motor for refurb. The bike ran fine till 13'000, and quit again. The recall timing repair has not been done yet since zero has only 3 cable kits to send out, and every time i call them, I'm like # 4 on the list to get the cables. So 7 weeks later the bike is still sitting useless. Shold I be upset? I don't want to belive it is an overpriced piece of junk. Every piece of plastic has cracked and had to be replaced under warranty, as well as the rear shock. I live down a dirt road, but that's why i got the ds. was going to buy a 2015 but now i'm going to buy a Ural instead.
-
Yup complete piece of junk! Might as well just give it to me! ;) :D
-
Explain quit?
My 2012 is having glitches again (probably repeat of 2.0) but it's much more manageable with the newer firmware fixes from last time.
Ie oscillation while starting = push bike forward and roll on throttle = pop into normal operation
motor cutout while in motion (1-2x every 100 miles) = return throttle to zero and then roll on = resume normal operation
Like you my dealer is far away, so until it gets worse I will live with it.
-
Explain quit?
My 2012 is having glitches again (probably repeat of 2.0) but it's much more manageable with the newer firmware fixes from last time.
Ie oscillation while starting = push bike forward and roll on throttle = pop into normal operation
motor cutout while in motion (1-2x every 100 miles) = return throttle to zero and then roll on = resume normal operation
Like you my dealer is far away, so until it gets worse I will live with it.
The bike I gave my daughter recently did the start-up dance once and the running vibration thing once, too. Each time it recovered and now is running fine again. I told her that if her ZF9 S ever starts to act funny, just pull over, turn off the ignition switch and turn it back on and it should stop whatever it was doing poorly and run fine again. It does seem like the glitch-fix software is still working.
-
my complaint is that zero has not done the software upgrade due to the fact they haven't sent me the cable kit yet, been waiting a year. the bike will roll, but i can't take the chance of it quitting on the freeway.
-
If it could encourage you I also had all these motor problems on my 2012S.
I made all the lastest firmware upgrade and the motor was sent to Zero for repoting the Sin/Cos encoder and it work perfectly now. I did over 1200km since I received it and in every weather conditions it still work perfectly. I also mad ethe motor calibration dof the encoder vector wich is required after the encoder has been disassembled for repoting.
Sometime it does work...
Doc
-
And sometimes it doesn't work.
Good luck - but are you sure that a Ural is the answer? Why not a second hand airhead BMW - same technology as the Ural, better construction.
Peter
-
actually I have had the ural gear up, 2013, for a year and I love it, even though it uses gas.
-
I would think that with the lemon law you could get snother one as it is like the 3rd time. Have you looked into it?
-
well after finally getting my motor and controller back from zero, it ran fine for 200 miles, then started running bad again!! John logan says he has only heard of 3 times this has happened on updated motors, so here i am again with an unrideable bike. What the heck am I supposed to think? This thing is junk. I think they are actually made in china.
-
Just two words: Lemon law.
You guys are lucky in the US, de do not have these kind of protection in Europe -besides the two year warranty-
That being said, I understand your frustration...when you buy a bike it should work!
Unfortunately sometimes these kind of business happen. In my case in 9.000 miles I had no important issues so far, but some other guys have had a few...it is also true that I do not ride the bike everyday.
Ural?
If you want to go for something very very simple (mechanically speaking), it might be the answer, otherwise I would also suggest you a BMW boxer type...I own one and is a boom proof bike
-
so 2 weeks on, and the only response from zero is they (john logan) will call me after he talks to his engineer. This was 4 days ago and still no response. good customer service
-
so going on the 3rd week, talking to John Logan again, the story is the same. He has to talk to his engineer about this problem. It takes 3 weeks to get to his engineer? Oh, he is busy working on the 2015 motors. My next step is legal action, this bike falls into all the criterea for the lemon law.
-
Flexydude I'm right there with you. I'm being told my bike has a motor issue (at a whopping 2500 miles) and it will take 2-3 months to get a new one in and "tough luck." I'm still under warranty and they seriously think I'm going to live with waiting 2-3 months to get my new motor? How on earth can they take that long to get a new motor for a KNOWN issue with this bike? Are they replacing that many? And if SO then why isn't there a nationwide recall on these bikes? Something smells rotten.
-
I just found out that grand canyon cycles in mayer near prescott, a harley dealer, is now a zero dealer too. I will be taking my ds up there, a 5 hour drive, this weekend so they can fix it. I,m hopeful but not confident it will get fixed. Next time it breaks down I will be talking to a lawyer.
-
finally got my bike up to grand canyon cycles, waiting for a call still. I would have easily has 20'000 miles on it by now if it hadn' t been broke so often. I was going to take it on my elk hunt next week, but now I'm stuck with bringing my ural.
-
finally got my bike up to grand canyon cycles, waiting for a call still. I would have easily has 20'000 miles on it by now if it hadn' t been broke so often. I was going to take it on my elk hunt next week, but now I'm stuck with bringing my ural.
Well, at least you can carry a larger elk in the sidecar of your Ural. ;)
-
Well, I hope you'll have it back soon. I had more than an couple of issues in the first month, and I was as disappointed. You should ensure they fix all the "usual suspects", even preventively :
- glitches
- belt that break after 100 km (seems to be related to the rear damper - if it is too soft, the tires will hit the frame and put an excess tension on the belt)
- dampers leaks
Just read the forum and send your contact the full list so that you do not have to wait another time. Just go to this forum to know the list of the common issues...
V
-
Definitely not junk. I was one of the first to get the glitch back in spring 2012. While on the freeway it would cut out and I'd just got real good at turning the key on and off real fast at 80 mph in heavy traffic with a passenger. Here I am 60,000+ miles later on my 2012 Zero and I've been glitch free since then.
I have heard they are almost done working on an even better solution then I used for the 2012 axial design motors. I know it's hard but be patient and It will be worth it. Or trade it in to your dealer as if it was a working bike, and get a 2014 with the new radial rotor motor with double the highway range, and hopefully a good end of year deal!!! That's what I would recommend for everyone waiting for a motor glitch repair on a 2012. Use it as a good excuse to upgrade! Just make sure the dealer gives you a good price for your 2012 as if it was a bike in perfect running condition.
If you get a new bike, post here how you like it compared to the 2012. Thanks.
-
I very much doubt my dealer would touch my 2012. It would take forever to sell even for a pittance and waste floor space. The only way to make financial sense of an old Zero is to ride it into the ground.
-
I very much doubt my dealer would touch my 2012. It would take forever to sell even for a pittance and waste floor space. The only way to make financial sense of an old Zero is to ride it into the ground.
Completely agree.
On the other hand, I wouldn't call my 2012 "junk", even though I had terrible quality issues during my first 6 months/3000 miles of ownership. After many trips to the dealer during that time, it finally became 'stable' and has performed reasonably since (I'm now at 16000).
Having been there, I feel flexydude's pain. It's incredibly frustrating to have you bike in the shop week after week, and Zero has a knack of coming across as not caring if you get back on the road anytime soon.
-
thanks for the encouraging support. John logan has finally emailed me asking what the issues are since the bike is at a new dealership, they havent worked on any yet from what he manager told me. At least I have 5 other bikes to ride, though th zero is my favorite. my 2013 suzuki gw 250 is an interesting bike. It is as smooth as the zero, almost as quiet, not quite as fast but it does get 70 mpg and will do 80mph, but i keep it at 65 most days.
-
I very much doubt my dealer would touch my 2012. It would take forever to sell even for a pittance and waste floor space.
I don't know about that. If the only way you would buy a new bike is to trade in the old one, I think it makes a lot of sense. And for those of us that have ridden electric motorcycles before we know it doesn't take long for a $15k bike to pay for itself vs buying gas and car repairs and maintenance which add up quick. But for someone new to electric vehicles $15k might be too much for them as they don't understand it yet. But for $6k or $7k for a used bike they might be willing to try it, and then want to upgrade themselves later. Or someone who has a 2010 Zero might want to upgrade to a 2012. Two years is a good time to own something and then move on to something else anyway. It is good to have al sorts of different bikes out there for different people.
And then for a $7k difference you get a bike with twice the range and twice the power, more comfortable and more durable. Its hard not to justify making this conclusion when you weigh in all the factors.
-
There are buyers for 2012s at the right price.
-
The right price would be less than £5k which leaves me to find another £10k for a new one whilst still paying finance on the old one.
I bought my bike at the worst possible time, about a month before they released the 2013 model so it was always going to end badly. Despite the back of the bike falling off and the brakes being terrible, I still enjoy riding it which is the main thing
-
The cheapest 2012 I know of for sale at the moment is the ZF9 up at Streetbike for £6k
-
I dropped Jason a line yesterday to see what he'll currently take for your old ZF9 Justin. Winter is on its way and I don't think they're getting much interest at Streetbike. I wouldn't be surprised if they just cut their losses and removed the two bikes from sale. More trouble than they're worth for a dealer. I doubt there are many others out there like myself who would be willing to buy a 2012 model now the 2015 range is out. The 2012 models are the 'only just' ones, IMHO. I'm inclined to agree with Noiseboy that sub £5k might attract a buyer here in the UK.
-
If a dealer is giving up at £6k I can't see a private sale happening at 5k. If electric bikes become popular used prices will rise again for those that want an electric commute but can't stretch to a new one.
I would probably get a better deal by converting the pack to a UPS and selling it to an IT company.
-
The right price would be less than £5k which leaves me to find another £10k for a new one whilst still paying finance on the old one
Why are you paying for finance on a bike that doesn't work? I'm not sure what the US law is but over here the finance company is jointly liable for the item if it does not work and you can legally refuse to pay the finance instalments until the problem is rectified and you have a working item that you have contracted for...
-
So it has been at the dealer almost a month, and they still have no answer since they can't duplicate the fault, say they are having difficulty coordinating with zero engineers with the internet hookup so they can get the info to the plant. WHAT THE FUHK?!
-
The right price would be less than £5k which leaves me to find another £10k for a new one whilst still paying finance on the old one
Why are you paying for finance on a bike that doesn't work? I'm not sure what the US law is but over here the finance company is jointly liable for the item if it does not work and you can legally refuse to pay the finance instalments until the problem is rectified and you have a working item that you have contracted for...
Some wires have crossed somewhere. My bike works, I would just like a shinier faster one ;)
-
Flexy, you need to threaten them with legal action. There's no excuse for it taking so long.
-
so finally after a month at the dealer, john logan called me and says they pulled the logs (took a month!?) and they saw nothing wrong. I am on the "list" to get a new , supposedely upgraded motor. He says it wil be a few months at least because they are getting them certified to use on the bikes. So I guess I can still ride it, and just be prepared for the cutouts, since the latest software should allow it to continue running without shutting down. I will give it a try, if it only happens once a day or so I can deal with it for now.
-
Tried riding the bike to work today, figuring I could roll-off the throttle and repower during glitches, based on Protomech's experience. Big mistake. Glitch hit me about five or six times in a 15 mile ride in rush hour traffic on the freeway -- and throttling back while rolling did not restore power several of those times. Had to wave my arms and push to the center median from a middle lane in four lanes of traffic. Rolling reboots seem to work but can be awkward.
Hope I can make it home tonight (will stay near the shoulder as much as possible!) and I hope Zero comes up with a fix soon, but this bike is unrideable for now.
--Karl
-
anybody know a lawyer? I wonder if this could be grounds for a class action law suit, as we have been duped into buying an overpriced machine that most of us are still paying for, that is not dependable and dangerous when it stalls out in traffic. every time I talk to john logan he has all kinds of excuses for why he can't fix all these bikes, and claims it has only happened to a few bikes, which mine happens to be one of. I really wonder if zero reads this forum.
-
I know plenty of lawyers but I doubt any of us could afford to hire one to take on a corporate case. Justice in things like this depends on your budget.
-
Anyone who has an issue please pm me; I may be able to shed some light into your situations
-
cortez, how do I send pm?
-
figured out the pm. Grand canyon cycles called and said a new motor is on the way, they should get it by december. I'm just going to pick the bike up till then and try to ride it, then bring it back when they get the motor. The dealer, Logan, is cool enough to bring it to phoenix for me to pick up , since he lives there. That saves me another 2.5 hour drive if i had to go all the way to Maier.
-
Just be careful riding, flexydude. My bike is not "recovering" from the fault. I am just glad I made it home alive on Tuesday. Always have your eye on an escape route.
--Karl
-
the dealer couldn't duplicate the fault, said it ran fine for a few hundred miles. so I'm hoping it will be ok till I get the new motor.
-
Keep us posted. Some of us had very annoying issues including very long down times (quarters or even a full year). Zero has to improve the ways they treat these "catastrophic case" and offer a fair compensation, in addition to the repairing they ow you. It would not cost them so much (these cases do not look so frequent) but for the poor guys like you (and me a few quarter ago) in this situation it makes all the difference !
For the whole Zero users community I really think that a fair treatment for these cases is an absolute must - everybody is ok to have some small fixes, but no one should be confronted to year long waits without any offer for compensation or substitution bike. And this should not happen through a legal action !
The positive thing is, as far as I am concerned, I did not encounter any new issue on either of my bikes (2012 XU and 2013 DS) since the last fix...
-
I think the class action idea suffers from the problem that there are relatively few of us, geographically spread under different legal regimes. So here in the UK, we do not have a lemon law but do have quite clear UK and EU directives around safety and quality. With my current 2012 ZF9 issues, I am having to look at these very carefully...
-
just got off the phone with zero, my 2012 ds has been at the dealer for over 2 months, they told me that the new motor should be there at the end of november. Well now zero says they don't know when they will get the new motor, as they are being made in fukking china!!
-
Oh man, I am sorry to here this. Like with what was stated above, since these cases are so far and few between, it would be nice if Zero could contact each of the few of you that seem to have a problem like this and somehow find out if instead of trying to fix a problem on a 2012, which might only logically, have a slightly lower priority importance than perhaps working on the newer models and find out if trading you up to a newer model for a compensated price difference would be a possibility for those customers who are interested in that possibility. Because that could be done right away and get you riding again, vs having to wait for parts to fix an older 2012. What do those of you that are having issues think about something like that? Flexydude I'm sorry to hear about this. I remember reading this thread a month or so ago and was hoping you would be fixed by now. Thinking of your situation is the main reason I'm bringing up a suggestion like this to see what people think about it and how it should work.
-
Upgrading to a newer model is a great idea. However it would need to be at a heavily discounted price and not just a token offer. It still involves further expenditure when one could argue it should not cost anything at all (to get back to just having a working bike).
With my failed battery, Zero are offering a new battery for about £3,450 - so say around $5000. I'm being told this is a 50% discount, so am I to believe a new battery is $10,000? And of course I am paying against 'the final price' whereas Zero are paying the cost of production only. You get the idea.
I would certainly entertain a genuine effort to upgrade, but remain to be convinced that it will be possible. But I would love to be proved wrong, if only as it would prove that Zero really does care about these issues.
-
When my 2008 Electric Motorsport GPR-S, for which I paid $8,000, burned up after only 300 miles, EMS bought the bike back from me for $7,000 and then built a new 2010 GPR-S, with an upgraded motor and larger battery pack, and sold it to me for $9,300. That seemed like a fair deal at the time, considering how much motorcycles depreciate when pushed out the door. I never really expected too much from their one-year warranty as it was never put in writing and they claimed that my 2009 bike was not repairable. :(
-
I'm a little lost by the idea that the manufacturer can't keep a decent parts supply in stock for a 2012 model motorcycle. Is the expectation of electric motorcycles really that they'll be unusable fairly quickly because parts won't be available for superseded models after a couple of years? Or that getting the parts will take so long that upgrading to the latest model and having to spend money seems like a reasonable option for dealing with a motorcycle that's still under warranty? Really?
Maybe my perspective is skewed because my normal ICE bike is 33 years old and I can still get parts for it from the original US importer. And I've got several friends riding 40ish-year-old Brit bikes (Commandos mostly). Look how many airheads and UJMs still run.
So maybe my expectations of product support are just wrong for the electric motorcycle world.
Peter
-
I'd probably be happy to trade up and even pay something for the privilege -- but no-one at Zero has suggested that is an option.
Like FlexyDude, I am waiting for the repair kit to be shipped -- but my bike is sitting unusable in my cellar rather than at the dealer, and for various reasons I kind of doubt I will be riding it for the winter.
I have also been told that the repair kit will be ready in a week or two and that I am "first" on the list to get the repair since my bike is unrideable (it starts glitching after about 3 miles and then once per mile once it starts).
And, Peter, it is not really a question of stocking parts -- the problem is that for a few of us, replacing the motor does not fix the problem -- it just comes back after a few months to a year (I had a year of glitch-free riding before the problem came back with a vengeance).
The good thing is that Zero is supporting these backs even thought the warranties have expired (though in my case, at least, I think they ultimately have a legal obligation to do so under NY's lemon law).
Meanwhile, I have been enjoying wife's lighter and more nimble (but not as fast) 2013 XU, whose stalling problem seems to have been a simple problem of loose batteries.
--Karl
-
Well Karl,
My warranty expired 4 weeks after buying the bike and it cutout in the rain late at night in the middle of nowhere 4 weeks after that. Had to push it 400 yds to safety with cars going past at 70mph. Yes the BMS is being replaced for free but apparently only after I have found the money for the battery. So I would perhaps question that support is being provided meaningfully in my case.
I am by nature an optimist and like to believe the best of people, but I am beginning to fear that the critical element in your case is the lemon law.
-
I've mentioned this on my original thread, but I'll tie off here as well. Zero Europe are fixing my battery and BMS issue free of charge. Obviously I'm delighted and credit must go to Zero for this. The new MD on this side of the pond joined only in September I believe.
I'm looking forward to getting the bike back, but as I have said previously, remain mindful of other possible issues reported here...
But for now, a good result :-)
-
so three months in the shop and still no new motor, same story from john logan, looks like 3 more weeks...
-
Still no motor, over 3 months in the shop...
-
4 months and 2 weeks and still no motor, promised by end of january. I have decided to stop making payments and let the bank reposses it and take the 4g i still owe and hire a lawyer and file under lemmon law. fukk zero
-
So sorry to hear about the wretched support.
IMO, customer support is so important for manufacturers to do.
Since they don't have many (or any) marketing and/or promotional events for the public, they need support from early adopters to promote their products.
As a leader in the market, and pushing to get stronger, one would expect better involvement from the factory and field reps to keep customers satisfied.
From the tale woven through this thread, it sounds like worthless junk sitting in the shop, and indeed a 'lemon' of a vehicle!!
-
So sorry to hear about the wretched support.
IMO, customer support is so important for manufacturers to do.
Since they don't have many (or any) marketing and/or promotional events for the public, they need support from early adopters to promote their products.
As a leader in the market, and pushing to get stronger, one would expect better involvement from the factory and field reps to keep customers satisfied.
From the tale woven through this thread, it sounds like worthless junk sitting in the shop, and indeed a 'lemon' of a vehicle!!
I agree, the early adopters take the risk and deserve maximum support, even at the cost of the manufacturer... They are the best advertising the company can have and potentially their worst nightmare if they don't treat them right!!!
My brother blogged about his DS before he got it in 2010... He didn't say anything when the bike died and the company is lucky about that....
http://zerods.blogspot.com.au/2010_09_01_archive.html (http://zerods.blogspot.com.au/2010_09_01_archive.html)
This is now my DS. That I am trying to restore to life... I have told Jason that I will report to him regarding the progress of the restore so he can blog on if he wants.... ZERO take heed, I am much more critical than my brother!!!
Cam 8)
-
My brother blogged about his DS before he got it in 2010... He didn't say anything when the bike died and the company is lucky about that....
http://zerods.blogspot.com.au/2010_09_01_archive.html (http://zerods.blogspot.com.au/2010_09_01_archive.html)
Cam 8)
Hi Cam
I remember your brother's blog and read it for a couple years. Really enjoyed it. Please tell him Brammofan says hi.
I always wondered why he stopped posting.
-
Hey Brammofan,
Yeah, I remember you were one of his two readers :)..... I will say hi for you...
Cheers,
Cam 8)
-
The Good News Brammofan, is that Jason is alive and well still up the coast of NSW. The bad news, as already mentioned is that his Zero died and he has gone back to the "Dinoburners", which is hard, to imagine..
We suspect the motor is responsible. I haven't had time to look at it yet. It is on a long list of jobs I am trying to catch up with, plus I like to do my research first before I pick up a spanner. I also have a one year old daughter who takes priority over my workshop hobbies too.
When I have a better idea about what is really going on with the bike I will let you guys know. The good thing is Jason really looked after the bike well. Even though it hasn't been used in the last couple of years, it was still well maintained... Jason is just like that about things, which is good for me.....
The forum has been great for information about the bike. I feel I really know it well now and have a fair idea about what I am doing with it now.
Cam 8)
-
Hey Brammofan, Jason says "Hi"... I told him that I would pass it on.
Cheers,
Cam
-
If it was this blog you are talking about:
http://zerods.blogspot.com/ (http://zerods.blogspot.com/)
Then I was the other reader :D
-
If it was this blog you are talking about:
http://zerods.blogspot.com/ (http://zerods.blogspot.com/)
Then I was the other reader :D
Hi Charles,
Yes, that's the one :D Jason is my brother.
That it is my bike now.
Cam 8)
-
Are you going to blog about getting it back on the road?
You should do that!
You will have at least the same readers as your brother Is guess [emoji1]
-
Are you going to blog about getting it back on the road?
You should do that!
You will have at least the same readers as your brother Is guess [emoji1]
I told Jason that he can blog about the restore. I will report to him and he can tell the world if he so desires. Last time I spoke, he said he was looking for his password, I told him to just ask the system to send him a new one. He was interested in blogging on. He did say to be fair that he hadn't stopped blogging due to the death of the bike. The bike died about a year after he had stopped reporting, because there was nothing new interesting to say at the time. It wasn't meant as a "whitewash" of any issues with the bike... He also said that Zero had been as helpful as they could be, when at the time there was no longer any support for Zero in Australia. That has changed now they are back. I will be interested in their level of assistance. I will either tell you guys here or let Jason rant on about it himself... he likes to do that :D
Cam 8)
-
Honestly - yes, it's junk. I started having problems with my 2012 Zero s 200 miles after I bought it. I have been waiting for a replacement motor for 6 MONTHS at this point. The bike has 2,000 miles on it and it's completely unrideable. There is obviously a problem with these motors and Zero is for sure hiding a serious problem with this model and year. I live in VA - I don't ride in the cold. The bike lurches and loses power every single time I ride it. I was almost run down when trying to make a turn when the bikes power completely stopped when I was going 15 MPH. I have ZERO interest in working with this company anymore and will be selling this POS IF I EVER CAN GET THESE SHADY ASSHATS to ever replace the part thats been defective basically since I bought the bike. Comcast has more scruples than this company. They have lied to me for 3 months about when my part is coming in - every month it's just "2 more weeks." Nothing. Then more nothing. Then more nothing. If they had a shred of decency they would refund my money in full. But clearly they have no decency. I will be filing a class action suit soon against the company if they don't completely take this junk back and give me a full refund. Wow it was a great 200 miles then total unadulterated crap.
-
Hello
I had the same problem with only 7000km and a year
Currently I equip the Maschiene on Brammo parts to
Anyone who wants to can also have a few photos
-
i was informed last week by the dealership where my bike has been for over 5 months that the new motor has arrived and that they would be changing it right away. It's been a week so far and no message from the dealer. I can pull the motor out in 20 minutes, and install it in the same amount of time. I'm guessing they have to time it, that must take a few days.
-
The garage here in the UK that has my 2012 have also received my replacement motor, which is apparently redesigned based on the 2013 model. Because of the different configuration, they were unable to fit it to my bike yesterday and are contacting Zero for support ...
Despite my protests, I am paying most of the cost of the motor and labor. I have submitted a request to the regulation agency to classify it as a recall. No word back from them yet.
Wes
2012 S ZF9, 2500 miles
-
I really wanted a Zero, I even put my actual bike on sold, but now i may go backwards. I see a lot of little problems on this forum, and, as i have no dealer near my home, i do not want to rent a tiny truck or find a car and a trailer, and do 200km every time something as to be fix.
Also, when you see the price you buy the bike and that some here have a dead bike after a few years, it cools me down a lot! I can't afford to buy a bike thinking "well, ok if it dies in 6 years, i'll buy another or something else." I need to know i can sell it after a few years of use.
So, i am still in reflexion, but not in the good way now... and that's too bad because i've tried it, and i think it can be fantastic, but it scares me a bit too...
-
Zorgalouf: Just keep in mind that most Zero owners are very happy with their choice and don't really need to post that they are happy. But if you do happen to own a bike with problems, you are looking for solutions and may also want some sympathy, and those are the type of posts that you will see on most any product forum (BMW forums come to mind, but it is certainly true for all motorcycle forums). There may only be one or two percent of the owners having problems, but you will see those owners posting 90% of the time in an effort to either seek help from members of the forum to resolve their issues, or perhaps in the hope that their complaints will pressure the company into helping them, or at least making changes to their processes and designs in the future.
-
Yeah, i know but imagine that i have bad luck and that a bad bike is for me? It is a (little) risk that i might take but i am really putting this in the balance.
-
Yeah, i know but imagine that i have bad luck and that a bad bike is for me? It is a (little) risk that i might take but i am really putting this in the balance.
I hear you Zorgalouf. I have always had problems with anything electrical (toasters, radios, TVs, computers, telephones, those sort of things). When I look at them they they just stop working. So I try to keep my eyes off of my Zero and so far it has kept running. ;)
-
Richard's comment got me thinking that we need more quantitative information about Zero demographics: see http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4482.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4482.0)
Zorgalouf, if we collect enough statistics, you might find the results useful for your decision.
-
Done.
And speaking of Triumphs, my Bonneville has been very reliable, except that I have had to replace the front brake disc four times due to warping. Three times by Triumph under warranty and once on my dime and my labor. Every brand of motorcycle can have its problems and (just like people) none are without their faults. ;)
-
True Richard, that every brand can have its problems.
But the history of motorcycles is full of examples of some bikes that, due to aspects of design and / or manufacturing have deserved reputations for either being very reliable, or being piles of rubbish. For example, some engines are inherently more fragile than others (compare a bevel Ducati with, say, an early Kawasaki 900 /1000 engine). And some manufacturers, at times, have had serious problems with build quality (the story of British bikes through the 1970s, perhaps?).
It'll be interesting to see, as time goes by, where Zero falls out on this continuum.
Peter
-
As much as I (and many others here) would hate to say it, maybe Zero needs to slow down their technical progress for a while and concentrate on making the technology, parts, design and build quality more reliable so that their products are more able to stand up to the typical rough handling of U.S. motorcycle riders who tend to beat the crap out of their bikes. ;)
-
Here, here! Not only that, but to make them more affordable to the average biker. An 8.5kWh Zero S, 2015 spec for £7,000 on the road would sell here in the UK.
-
so almost 6 months in the shop, dealer has had the new motor for 3 weeks, haven't heard from them, must be having trouble getting it installed, don't know don't care anymore as soon as i get it back it's getting sold for whatever i can get for it so i can be done with zero
-
That is so utterly rubbish. Isn't someone from zero reading this forum? Don't you think that if you were running a business you'd see this forum as a valuable way of monitoring customer satisfaction and being made aware of problems like this?
Someone needs to go to Zero's HQ and bang senior management's heads together!
-
zero absolutely reads this forum, I recieved an email regarding my "negative" postings from some guy naked ryan. Nothing i have posted has been untrue or inaccurate. I found a lemmon law attourney who is just itching to start a case, but I'm not going there yet. I'm being extremely patient because zero has "bent over backwards" to help me with my 2 broke bikes.
-
2 broken bikes? Oh my God! If Zero had been bending over backwards they would have replaced your bike for one that works. They should keep a stock of bikes for swap outs when situations like yours occur. The only one who is bending over is you my friend and you're taking it in ways that would be impolite to describe any further!
I love the fact that zero produce electric bikes. It seems they provide a good product overall, considering the constraints they are under. However, they do need to sort out their customer service and it seems they need a nudge.
Get your lawyer on the case. The treatment you've had is despicable.
-
Bonkers, your comments presume that Zero is as interested in keeping bikes running as they are in making and selling them in the first place.
They should have a large enough stock of spares available, even for discontinued bikes, to fix ones that break, and fix them in a reasonable amount of time. It would appear that's not how they operate. Maybe they don't expect their <=2012 bikes to last very long anyway? Who knows.
Peter
-
BMW has been making motorcycles since 1923 and has thousands of employees designing and building motorcycles in semi-automated factories in Germany and elsewhere. Even they can have problems:
According to an article in the April issue of City Bike magazine BMW is recalling 300,000 R and K bikes built between November 2003 and April 2011. BMW says that the rear wheel flange on these models may crack if either the brake disc bolts, or the nuts that attach the wheel, are over tightened by the bike's owner. This may result in cracks and damage to the wheel flange. "BMW Motorrad has therefore decided to exchange the wheel flange with a more robust part as a precaution."
-
see my posts under uncommanded acceleration, and parting out 2010ds. You'll see what i been dealing with
-
As much as I (and many others here) would hate to say it, maybe Zero needs to slow down their technical progress for a while and concentrate on making the technology, parts, design and build quality more reliable so that their products are more able to stand up to the typical rough handling of U.S. motorcycle riders who tend to beat the crap out of their bikes. ;)
I don't own a Zero, but it seems like the older model Zero's were more likely to have had problems, and not just with the electronics. I would like to see Zero continue their technical progress which I believe results in better and more reliable motorcycles.
The problems I have seen described don't strike me as issues with Zero so much as issues with the dealer/repair shops not understanding how to fix them. Sadly, a bike sitting in a repair shop for 6 months is not that uncommon. I have also found, the longer anything is at the shop, the less likely to have a satisfactory outcome. A bike that has been there for 6 months has been stuffed in a corner and forgotten about. With gas bikes, you have more options available to take it someplace else if they don't fix it in a timely manner. You will have more options for electric bikes in time, but for now, choices are limited. After some bad experiences with my Honda, the only garage I trust is the one attached to my house. This does not in any way reflect poorly on Honda, rather the shops I took it too and my not being aggressive enough and demanding either progress or the return of my bike.
Where Zero could do much better is making the knowledge about how to repair and maintain their motorcycles easier to obtain. I think it is completely reasonable for customers to require a factory service manual be included with any new bike. While I don't think Zero should undercut their dealers, making parts available at MSRP ensures customers will have access even if they don't have a dealer nearby.
-
There are some great comments here. Zero, I really hope you're reading them. These are the people who will either encourage or discourage people to buy your products.
I'm not saying that any of this is easy, but more effort is needed quickly. What I'm hearing is criminal behavior. You're stealing the most precious possession from your most valuable customers; their time.
-
Richard - this post of yours - BMW has been making motorcycles since 1923 and has thousands of employees designing and building motorcycles in semi-automated factories in Germany and elsewhere. Even they can have problems: --etc.
Sorry, but that reads like false equivalence.
Peter
-
LOL, I had to look up false equivalence! I have to say that I think Peter is right though.
NASA works very hard to make sure their products are reliable and they still have problems. It's what happens after those problems are found that matters. How the situation is dealt with.
We can all say that problems should be ironed out before products are let loose on the public, but that can never be the case. We learn from our mistakes and make good as much as we can.
BMW are clearly going to great lengths to recall thousands of bikes to fix an issue that is only likely to cause problems for people who don't know what they're doing and over tighten bolts.
Zero are well aware of the issues posted here and choose to do nothing about them. When they do make things right, it's often at the expense of the customer and after a lot of time and effort has been wasted getting zero to do the right thing. Manufacturing the bikes is only half the story. Their mentality seems to be that sales numbers are all that counts and are what will eventually make the difference when someone decides to buy the company.
My heart goes out to the unlucky few here that have had their dreams of enjoying the benefits of riding their Zeros stolen.
-
Although I have never had an actual problem with any of my current BMW motorcycles, I am getting a little tired of continually bringing them in to the shop for recall and field upgrade repairs for things that should have been fixed before they left the factory. When I saw the most recent recall, it finally got to me. ;)
The only real problems that ever left me stranded was when my new 1985 R80 dropped a pile of roller bearings in my lap when I went to check the valve lash, my 1991 K100RS broke its drive shaft without warning after 46K miles ($1200 to repair) and my R1150R locked up when a key sensor ring failed and required a 100-mile tow to the nearest dealer. But I keep on buying the things, anyway.
However I will agree that my dealer always repaired my bikes as quickly as possible (once they were able to obtain the parts). My Zero dealer (now closed) rarely had Zeros sitting around the shop waiting to be repaired. Zero may be the problem, but it could also be the dealer, too. So far I haven't heard a single complaint from anyone who has had an issue with after-sales service or repairs after buying their Zero from Hollywood Electrics. ???
-
So far I haven't heard a single complaint from anyone who has had an issue with after-sales service or repairs after buying their Zero from Hollywood Electrics. ???
THIS!
-
Sorry to hear this flexydude. 3 weeks with the motor at the dealer does sound like a little long. I know they are busy but after what you have been through you'd think they would do it the same day. I know it's speculating but I would agree with Richard. It sounds like there is a lack of enthusiasm at the dealer to get this done for you. I've never heard anything but positive things regarding Hollywood Electrics, and hopefully others dealers will gain enthusiasm for their electric customers such a reputation like Hollywood Electrics too.
Do you know if the motor is the same type of motor? Round and silver? I'm not sure but I wonder if the reason it might have taken so long is they are working on fixing perhaps a weak link with the 2012 motors, and bringing it up to speed with their current technology. When you see the bike let us know. I'd be curious to see, and if so that explains a lot on why perhaps it took a while, and be very understandable if you are perhaps one of the first to get this. Let us know.
I know you were an early adopter with the 2010 and 2012, and while cool bikes, they were not designed by all the high level engineers that came in 4-5 years ago to design what would become the 2013-2015 platform which is amazing. I wish you could somehow trade your 2 bikes in and get a deal on a 2015. It sounds like you are an EV enthusiast and have just had real bad luck compared to most, and also then it seems like your issues were perhaps even further compounded by your dealer, but I don't know, that's just guessing based on others comments as well.
I guess I've been lucky but my 2012 Zero has been pretty reliable. I had the "glitch" early on, but got it fixed and its been good ever since. Although I was 3000 miles, away, my dealer was Hollywood Electrics and I had excellent service the whole time to talk me through anything.
I have had 2 sets of rear wheel bearings go out and a sprocket come loose on the motor. But I have my bike way way overloaded, and so exceeded the GVWR for the rear wheel by a lot, and I changed my own sprocket and didn't get it tight so all my issues have been my own doing for the most part. I have 75,000 miles on the bike now (see speedo snapshot below from facebook (https://www.facebook.com/ElectricTerry)) and all things considered, my Zero has been less troublesome than any bike I ever had from Honda, Yamaha, or Kawasaki. I never had a Harley because I heard how much they broke down, and it just wasn't my style. So for me the Zero has been the most reliable motorcycle manufacturer I have ever had experience with.
I hope they can get you all fixed up and whole again flexy, I think anyone in your shoes would feel frustrated. And it's the quick and easy response to feel upset about this and not want anything to do with it anymore. Sort of like a bad relationship breakup. There is an emotional factor no question when you put your trust in something and feel you were let down. But the more rational thinking you are usually as a person, the quicker those feelings go away and the more rational decisions you make. And I think most would agree the 2015 Zero's are perhaps the best bikes on the market right now, and would love to see you go that direction eventually and be happy with electric vehicles and motorcycles again.
Let us know about the motor as soon as you can! I'm very curious!
Terry
-
only thing i know about the motor is it's supposed to be a hybrid from 2013 adapted to fit 2012 and made in china.
-
only thing i know about the motor is it's supposed to be a hybrid from 2013 adapted to fit 2012 and made in china.
Yeah that's the new replacement motor they have been working on for the 2012's.
Looks like you are getting the upgrade rather than having another ME1115 in your bike.
This is very similar to the old motor used in the 2012's
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/motors/brushless-motors/me1115-brushless-motor-24-96v-5000rpm-12-kw-cont-30-kw-pk.html (http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/motors/brushless-motors/me1115-brushless-motor-24-96v-5000rpm-12-kw-cont-30-kw-pk.html)
-
just found out my bike is ready, now just gotta make the 5 hour drive to pick it up.
-
Good news, hopefully the modified 75-X motor will make a difference to your bike.
-
Woohoo!!! Didn't they offer to deliver it after all this time Flexy?
Is it only me that thinks that Zero have a duty to make sure their dealers are providing good service?
-
Great news, Flexydude! I hope that I am back on the list for one of the replacement motors now that they have them -- haven't heard a word from Zero since December despite several attempts.
--Karl
-
good luck, I gotta drive 5 hours from tucson to maier to pick it up this weekend. I'm hopeful but not confident that it will run for long.
-
after riding to work his week, only put on about 100 miles so far, the range seems to be the same, in sport mode it fly's, more power than old motor, but the deceleration sucks. when slowing down with throttle off it stutters and bucks like I'm pumping the brakes. It's not unrideable, just really annoying. I took care of the awful high pitch whine the new motor makes by wearing earplugs.
-
Oh dear, after all this time it clearly is junk!
-
Just got back from sailing my boat back across the Atlantic . . . and my Zero was waiting with a new motor at the new NY metro dealership, Rockwell Motorcycles.
Rode the bike the 25 miles to work -- cant say I noticed any difference in performance -- but I didnt try going flat out on the windy roads between Newburgh and White Plains, and with an expired registration in my pocket.
I dont mind the different motor sound -- its like the high tech sound of the old motor, only more so.
Zero did the entire repair under warranty, including hauling the bike to the dealer, so I am really happy right now -- its great to get my ride back. Rockwell Motorcycles seems really enthusiastic about the Zeros -- they are already the no. 2 dealer in the country, apparently.
So I am a happy Zero owner again, for now :)
--Karl
-
Hi kcoplan,
As I have reported on the other thread I too am generally content with my new motor but haven't found any increase in performance. In fact, my top speed is on 70 to 72 mph. Zero have offered no explanation despite my requests. Have you had the same experience?
-
Still have not been able to really open it up on the highway, but I got it up to 80 or so up a modest hill on a short straightway, so I seem to be getting better performance than you are.
I was able to get the old motor up to 99 "Zero mph" (I think the speedo reads a bit high) -- may be a while before I can test that limit again. ;)
Of course, I am on the skinny side, and I have the smaller ZF6 battery, so that might affect acceleration, too.
--Karl
-
After I calibrated the speedometer with a GPS, I can get my 2012 w/ stock motor up to 90 mph with a windshield and a tuck.
Before calibration it was reading about 4% high.
-
It makes sense that the 2013 motors hit a lower max speed when fitted to 2012, if they originally were designed for higher voltages operations, then their rpm per volt maybe lower. This would translate to a lower top speed if fitted to a 2012.
For example, lets say the rpm per volt of the 2013 motor was 0.9v per rpm.
Then on a 2013 we'd expect speeds in the 90-95 region
However on a 2012 the speeds would be closer to 70-75
-
I'm just adding the word junk to my Spanish vocabulary.
+2 months to get a faulty BMS (the first units with no proper conformal coating) replaced...still no news...
This is mainly because the European head office does not want to ship parts directly to users...it is a great policy when they have decided to replace the dealer in Spain and the new one does not have a clue...all in all and the bike has been sitting in my garage for +2 months now. It is very likely the battery and the motor will be malfunctioning now or need service.
Who's going to pay me that?
Very disappointing
-
Hello
Here are two pictures of the product quality. Have more photos just have the SD card still looking.
The neodymium magnets in the rotor even clamped!!!!!!!! In good engines be it sticky/matted
-
The next defect on my Zero
The display gets more and more cracks.
What can Zero ever ?????? >:(