ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Fivespeed302 on October 16, 2016, 08:43:53 AM
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I know the FXS can wheelie, but has anyone been able to do it on their SR yet? I have been too nervous to try because I didn't want to crash, but I've been thinking about it a lot for some stupid reason. I don't even try to do it on the R1, but I can't stop thinking about it- and I'm sort of a risk taker even though I'm getting old.
So here's how I imagine it, right before the crash, lol...
Turn off ABS, get up to around 20 or 25, hold throttle steady and put left foot on passenger peg. With the right foot, I hold the brake and pin the throttle, then let off the brake and yank the handle bars, putting my weight on the left foot. Then I crash, hahaha!
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Wow, read 101 times and no response. I guess that's a big honking NO.
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none of the zero's i have ridden (which is all but the FX) are not as easy to wheelie as you would think. if you're hesitant towards trying it on your R1 which can do it at will in almost any gear, you might have some trouble on the SR.
my $.02,
laramie ;)
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none of the zero's i have ridden (which is all but the FX) are not as easy to wheelie as you would think. if you're hesitant towards trying it on your R1 which can do it at will in almost any gear, you might have some trouble on the SR.
my $.02,
laramie ;)
I can wheelie very easily on the R1. However, I avoid it because the bike is perfect and I don't want to mess it up. That doesn't mean that the front doesn't pop up, I just don't go around riding long wheelies trying to get attention. It also has pretty expensive bodywork.
The Zero plastics are cheap, so if I laid it down, it wouldn't be as bad. I will eventually get around to trying it, and plan to get it on my GoPro. I'll share the link and you can laugh at/with me.
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I wondered the same thing, if I could pop the front of the DSR I have... The torque is definitely there, but somehow the soft throttle response and 'slow'-start of the controller prevents throttle wheelies... I only manage to get the front off the ground by hitting a speedbump at about 30km/h, and go WOT right before the bump. The controller will hit full torque at the apex of the bump and the wheel will lift. I found the throttle to be a little unpredictive because of the response lag so didn't manage to keep the wheel up for long (yet ;) ) Mind you, I don't encourage such behaviour!
And I wonder why my wife says she has two daughters but three kids to take care of ;)
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I've lifted the front wheel on my '15 SR many times going over intersections at something like 30mph in cases where the cross road forms a smooth hump. But I don't know how to wheelie, so I let go off the throttle early. Once I got a wheelie on an intersection like that and it surprised me as it was unexpected. In all these cases I am not changing my riding position towards the rear or pulling up on the handlebars. If anything, I'm bending forward to avoid too much lifting, so I think the front would go higher if I let it and especially if I encourage it, but I don't want to risk it since I don't know what I'm doing. I doubt the SR would wheelie on flat roads without major weight shifting and jerking the brakes and what not.
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I've lifted the front wheel on my '15 SR many times going over intersections at something like 30mph in cases where the cross road forms a smooth hump. But I don't know how to wheelie, so I let go off the throttle early. Once I got a wheelie on an intersection like that and it surprised me as it was unexpected. In all these cases I am not changing my riding position towards the rear or pulling up on the handlebars. If anything, I'm bending forward to avoid too much lifting, so I think the front would go higher if I let it and especially if I encourage it, but I don't want to risk it since I don't know what I'm doing. I doubt the SR would wheelie on flat roads without major weight shifting and jerking the brakes and what not.
You must be a lot skinnier than I am, or your bike is faster, hahaha. I've had the rear tire spin unexpectedly many times, and a few on purpose, but never had the front lift. I bet if you installed the larger pulley for acceleration, you'd be able to pop it up much easier.
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The answer for me is.. no. It wont wheelie.
The front wont lift under WOT acceleration (although it is light)
They only way to get it up is to chop the throttle, bounce, and use the suspension to lift it. You have to be hyper-aggressive.
Now... if it actually put out the literbike torque that the advertising materials claimed, it would be easy.... but in reality, at the rear wheel, the bike has about half the torque of a literbike. It can be regeared to be identical, but then you would max out at 40-something MPH
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I'm 200lb before gear, so not that light. On flat road it won't lift at all from just the trhottle, but as I said, if there is a large hump on the road, it will lift. I have not tried to jerk the bars and play with brakes and weight shifting (as MR Dude 1 suggests, "super aggressive"). But with a nice large smooth hump on the road it will lift. The type of hump on the road I'm talking about is for example a particular intersection near where I live, where if you cross it at 40-50 mph, you will catch a little air with both wheels (or 4 wheels if you are in a car) :)
The rear tire has spun for me a few times too, but each time on less than ideal surfaces. Going straight on good dry asphalt in reasonably warm weather it has more traction than power and won't spin for me, just like it won't lift the front.
I've lifted the front wheel on my '15 SR many times going over intersections at something like 30mph in cases where the cross road forms a smooth hump. But I don't know how to wheelie, so I let go off the throttle early. Once I got a wheelie on an intersection like that and it surprised me as it was unexpected. In all these cases I am not changing my riding position towards the rear or pulling up on the handlebars. If anything, I'm bending forward to avoid too much lifting, so I think the front would go higher if I let it and especially if I encourage it, but I don't want to risk it since I don't know what I'm doing. I doubt the SR would wheelie on flat roads without major weight shifting and jerking the brakes and what not.
You must be a lot skinnier than I am, or your bike is faster, hahaha. I've had the rear tire spin unexpectedly many times, and a few on purpose, but never had the front lift. I bet if you installed the larger pulley for acceleration, you'd be able to pop it up much easier.
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just got to be in "that" spot in the throttle. a little jab of the front brake always helps as well as being back in the seat. it really is a timing thing. i was messing around on the back roads coming home from work today with this thread in mind. i'm getting better and still was only able to pull off about 35% of the attempts. i'm decent but have never been one of "those guys" that can ride one all day long. most today were on the flats, i really don't like using big bumps, tendency to climb to fast as you fall back down the other side.
on another note;
anyone who likes to "race" their bike will really like the app "track addict." i have no affiliation but tried it saturday morning just goofing off and was impressed. took it again on sunday morning and figured out how to actually use it and was very happy. was able to shave 3 secs from the beginning to end of the session per lap. also gave me G-loads, speed, braking, and more other things than i can mention. very cool app, also free.
laters,
laramie ;)
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I'm pretty good at wheelies and I've attempted it on my SR with no luck even with my left foot on the passenger peg being used as leverage it'll only lift the front wheel up about 6 inches or so. Have no issues on my other bikes as seen here (http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/ltr-450_28/424A2CC4-EC11-4A9E-A1A2-033905CBD4BC.jpg) (http://s88.photobucket.com/user/ltr-450_28/media/424A2CC4-EC11-4A9E-A1A2-033905CBD4BC.jpg.html)
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I mentioned this on another thread that someone was complaining about the rear tire breaking loose when accelerating from an intersection. It shouldn't do this unless you hit sand, paint, water, have too high tire pressure etc, but one way that has been found to fix that is the Corbin seat by sliding a rider ~200 pounds gear a few inches back to put more weight on the rear tire and less on the front.
I have noticed being able to accelerate harder in turns without the back end stepping out as well.
I don't wheelie on my bike because I carry a dog, but for those who like to, and want to make it easier, I'd say 2 accessories to get would be the Corbin seat first which won't have any draw backs. 2nd would be to get the 25 or 28 tooth front sprocket. Although because of the tighter turn radius, and less surface area to contact teeth, changing the sprocket will make it more likely you will break belts, so if you order the lower gear, also order at least one or two belts as a replacement. Shifting the weight back with the Corbin seat is probably the easiest. Ride to 15-25 mph, let off the throttle with regen set to 100% while bending over close to the handlebars, and then right away as the fork is bouncing back, give it full throttle push off the bars, slide back in the Corbin seat and pull up on the handlebars. Anyone with a Corbin seat try this yet? Not that I'm recommending you do this of course. ;)
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Despite peoples thoughts that power is somehow limited in the controller for a less violent launch and more power can be somehow programmed, this isn't true. The power ramps up because of torque times RPM, and the torque doesn't drop off until about 4000 rpm so the bike will make more power the faster the motor turns up to that point. Then if torque drops faster than RPM's increase, then power will drop off. But there aren't any aftermarket programmable configurations to get more power at a lower rpm in the controller through electronic settings.
used this advice from the "other thread" mentioned above, and was successful almost 100% of the time lifting the front wheel.
just saying....
laramie ;)
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Lifting the wheelie is different than actually wheeling..if I couldn't do it with the extra leverage on the passenger peg there's no way a sit down wheelie is possible on the SR. I gave it a few try's today at higher speeds and I could only get it up about a foot..I'm going to give it a shot on a steep hill, I think that might get it up there and if I do I'll post up a video to prove it'll wheelie.
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A Zero WILL wheelie if you remove the 180 pounds battery and replace it by a 13 pounds the same power and put a SR controlelr into it and do the 0-60 in 2.7 sec =)...
at 85% max torque setting !
even at 60% it wheelie !!
then you need a custom made wheelie bar 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVMPBnfhukM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVMPBnfhukM)
Doc
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Not having even ridden an electric motocycle yet, I'm fully naive. With automatic transmission cars a common technique I've read about is to open the throttle with the brake held down and release the brake to launch. Does anything like that help launch the Zero motorcycles!
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Not having even ridden an electric motocycle yet, I'm fully naive. With automatic transmission cars a common technique I've read about is to open the throttle with the brake held down and release the brake to launch. Does anything like that help launch the Zero motorcycles!
nope. Theres no torque converter to load up... :)
the cool thing, is you can just pin it from a stop. no clutch, no worries about going over backwards or anything.
the not-as-cool thing... is its not a overpowered wheelie machine. :)
its still fun... almost magical. like you're flying.
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My FXS loses traction on the rear wheel if I go full throttle from a stop.
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Ok so I don't normally go mono however found that on FX it is relatively easy in sports mode while rolling at about 30 to 40 Km/h. Ease the throttle for a moment and then turn it up again and it will power pop the wheel up. Found this out by chance one time approaching red light then got green and the wheel went up unintentionally. Not sure about the road versions of Zero though as have nil experience there.
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Marcus the FX is known as a wheelie machine (necessary for off road riding), its the other Zero bikes that are not.
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Does anyone know the weight distribution on the front and rear wheel of a SR and a typical super sport?
My 2015 SR ate the stock front Diablo tire a lot faster (~4000 miles) than the rear. The rear is still going (bald past the wear bars) at 11,000 miles.
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My FXS loses traction on the rear wheel if I go full throttle from a stop.
really?
funny because i can whack mine wide open from a dead stop and not only will it not lift the front wheel, it definitely doesn't break traction. it's fast, but unless i'm on loose road, there is no slip other than on extreme angle.
and i know how to test a tire...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IB5Hw8bfpvmEdgVxw_MjkEGMVvMJiJaOMirpVzux8VD6pLcKYAKefXtuYyXde45FFYTGEL-hLneeDeVJNLiRNR2hp-il96i2XosfSzUQqXWg6vldVx4BxbFFW3bOTXhRDRbfiOSg4MrxQ2U5fnbAcXUmMjXKhdzhk-iiAEYgenZEg0tlqSjXdTs7J6gyA-E_bVUU2SKxEp6r7rWjIRNxkRadR130o6ZL803aJdpOfnEaVkPMC3qiLHqe3Fj7jhTO6rXipGT0v8upL_DSfFiky7JOXy44g6azFb4RRaCLzkZPW0oU3QYeIR4taJHv8VH5igZNjXMzJETInBVhkZSF5dcIvzKgUB68uA8UKQzPN_I_O-GBGQz9LJchKzIn4fUTeQOsVu3z6pwgScOsSfvtk6GNrbbBpZo385TDkM7tjfAgNTxLMLhsIJJ6PXUWphSPhGr1tashpr3KT4J5twgsq4mTHRpEryJX1nujtm53KKVBTdP5cy-0DIzb92DeKyVrVig1zWYtvwUf7Kf1cup9TCBk-dr53C-MrHA_ZgDeUClXCgru-WJ0ML_6t9_JvDjNtw-OqOv0rMRUNqP4O0itFK6V9WApHko-RlKEHgTjZgpy4mFsjg=w1764-h1322-no)
also just had my motor timed so i know it's not a mech thing...
laters,
laramie ;)
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Yes, I lose traction 100% of the time when I accelerate hard.
Usually It'll happen after 10 meters when there's a sudden surge of acceleration
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My FXS loses traction on the rear wheel if I go full throttle from a stop.
really?
funny because i can whack mine wide open from a dead stop and not only will it not lift the front wheel, it definitely doesn't break traction. it's fast, but unless i'm on loose road, there is no slip other than on extreme angle.
and i know how to test a tire...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IB5Hw8bfpvmEdgVxw_MjkEGMVvMJiJaOMirpVzux8VD6pLcKYAKefXtuYyXde45FFYTGEL-hLneeDeVJNLiRNR2hp-il96i2XosfSzUQqXWg6vldVx4BxbFFW3bOTXhRDRbfiOSg4MrxQ2U5fnbAcXUmMjXKhdzhk-iiAEYgenZEg0tlqSjXdTs7J6gyA-E_bVUU2SKxEp6r7rWjIRNxkRadR130o6ZL803aJdpOfnEaVkPMC3qiLHqe3Fj7jhTO6rXipGT0v8upL_DSfFiky7JOXy44g6azFb4RRaCLzkZPW0oU3QYeIR4taJHv8VH5igZNjXMzJETInBVhkZSF5dcIvzKgUB68uA8UKQzPN_I_O-GBGQz9LJchKzIn4fUTeQOsVu3z6pwgScOsSfvtk6GNrbbBpZo385TDkM7tjfAgNTxLMLhsIJJ6PXUWphSPhGr1tashpr3KT4J5twgsq4mTHRpEryJX1nujtm53KKVBTdP5cy-0DIzb92DeKyVrVig1zWYtvwUf7Kf1cup9TCBk-dr53C-MrHA_ZgDeUClXCgru-WJ0ML_6t9_JvDjNtw-OqOv0rMRUNqP4O0itFK6V9WApHko-RlKEHgTjZgpy4mFsjg=w1764-h1322-no)
also just had my motor timed so i know it's not a mech thing...
laters,
laramie ;)
You must love KFC because you already finished your chicken strips. ;D
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trying to get my hands on another set of wheels so i can put on some real slicks. then, those boy's at the track better start paying attention... 8)
last sunday. (https://youtu.be/qN_9KmTdcvI)
laters,
laramie ;)
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A reminder that the torque listed for gas bikes is for 5th or 6th gear, not lower gears, the gears multiple the torque, so an R1 has way more torque than the SR.
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A reminder that the torque listed for gas bikes is for 5th or 6th gear, not lower gears, the gears multiple the torque, so an R1 has way more torque than the SR.
In both cases, torque is measured at the output shaft of the motor, so both bikes have gearing/torque multiplication issues to be considered. In another thread, someone suggested using thrust at the rear wheel as the standard, and I think that's a great idea. Perhaps even better would be thrust/weight, which would directly give you acceleration in G's. Five hundred pounds of thrust will accelerate 1000 pounds of bike and rider at exactly 1/2 G.
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according to my telemitry from sunday. my highest x-axis load was always on braking. highest was 0.55 at end of the back straight.
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laramie, can you clarify something for me?
You're saying that on your FXS, if you give it full throttle from a stand still, your rear wheel will not lose traction at all?
Also, is the bike stock and with the OEM tires?
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yup. easiest bike i have ever ridden "off-the-line", smoked an R6 2 times the other day. wait for light to turn green, weight forward, twist throttle. take off like a rocket to about 60 mph, then wait for the blue streak to go flying by once he get's up to speed.
stock tires, stock bike.
laramie ;)
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Maybe there's something wrong with mine. Loses traction constantly.
How much do you weigh?
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Or maybe you got a special one that has a more powerful controller ;) ?
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Accidentally filled the wheels with helium ;)
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A reminder that the torque listed for gas bikes is for 5th or 6th gear, not lower gears, the gears multiple the torque, so an R1 has way more torque than the SR.
In both cases, torque is measured at the output shaft of the motor, so both bikes have gearing/torque multiplication issues to be considered. In another thread, someone suggested using thrust at the rear wheel as the standard, and I think that's a great idea. Perhaps even better would be thrust/weight, which would directly give you acceleration in G's. Five hundred pounds of thrust will accelerate 1000 pounds of bike and rider at exactly 1/2 G.
The only problem with measuring torque at the rear wheel is that bikes with really low gears would be high up the scale but may have weak motors. You could have a 450 dirt bike looking better than a R1, but as soon as the dirt bike changes into 2nd or 3nd gear its left for dead by the R1. The figure would end up meaning nothing.
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Easily solved by publishing the rear wheel torque for each gear
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I still think that the weight distribution on the SR is too far forward or a easy wheelie.
Other things to consider is chain and drive train of a gas bike has lot of play in the system. With lots of play in the system the momentum of the system builds up before it is even transferred to the rear wheel, so the impact of on-and-off throttle helps lift the front wheel.
Zero with a belt and a single speed transfers power more directly to the rear wheel.
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I still think that the weight distribution on the SR is too far forward or a easy wheelie.
Other things to consider is chain and drive train of a gas bike has lot of play in the system. With lots of play in the system the momentum of the system builds up before it is even transferred to the rear wheel, so the impact of on-and-off throttle helps lift the front wheel.
Zero with a belt and a single speed transfers power more directly to the rear wheel.
lol. forget "play in the system".. pull the clutch in, rev it up and dump it out.
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Maybe 12% more torque would help?
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_6&products_id=182 (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_6&products_id=182)
I don't know, because I have an FX. The wheel seems to come up at higher speeds (freeway on-ramp) or on bumps, but not straight from a stop. Because DC motors are supposed to have the highest torque at low RPM, I theorize that the motor controller is programmed to rein it in -- unfortunately a little too much.