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[Richard230]

Kawasaki has announced their two new "125cc-class" production electric motorcycles to be marketed in Europe. Here is the news, including full specifications - except for pricing:  https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/2024-kawasaki-ninja-e-1-and-z-e-1-announced-for-europe-44594830

[TheRan]

Garbage specs, honestly they need to be even cheaper than their 125 counterparts to sell and I can't see that happening.

[Stonewolf]

Holy shit I literally burst out laughing and had to take a break from reading ...

6.7hp pfwoar!
3kWh (with both batteries) but it still takes hours to charge.
The faster of the two can achieve the dizzying heights of ... 55mph! (Ok, there's a 15s boost mode up to ... 65!)

This is ... sabotage, this is deliberately bad, this is actually an attempt to make electric motorbikes look bad because who in their right mind puts out specs like that and calls it good?

To be fair to it the peak power is 12.1 but with such a big gap to continuous you are not gonna get that for long, possibly only for that boost mode. For reference my first bike was a 125 V-Twin from over 20 years ago that had the max A1 power (15hp) and could do 70-75 depending on conditions despite being a big jumped up wannabe adventure bike. I would say pitting it against one of these things would be like kicking puppies were it not for the substantial torque difference but I don't think anyone will care about that if you're not even able to hold 60mph. Like I've ridden my Ribelle in eco mode and topping out at 55 is not a happy place.

[Stonewolf]

I was just talking to someone else about this and I was like "the range might be alright since they're light and weedy ..."

72km

WHAT?

[Specter]

You have to look at this from a Japaneese mindset.

We live on an island, it's packed, and the streets are super crowded most the times.
Having a small bike that is light, and can weed me thru traffic to get from one business meeting to the next, and is really cheap, is a GOOD thing.

From an American POV, yah this thing is a toy we'd get our kids at easter time, but from a smaller / densly populated area POV, which would be MANY countries,  this thing fits into a large demographic.

Think of it is a commuter vehicle for urban / dense urban get around, NOT a precision sports machine like an Energica would be viewed as.

Aaron

Edit:  Ive driven in the dense japanese traffic before, and trust me I would NOT want to be humping my Ribelle in that stop and go !  or in ANY stop and go in any city really.  A nice light bike that you can pick up by the handle, George Jetson style and walk across the street with is much better

[TheRan]

It's not that the specs make it unusable, it's comparable to bikes from the likes of Super Soco, Sur-ron, Nui, and many other scooters that are available. The thing is those are barely cheaper than the petrol 125s and hard enough to justify as it is, these bikes from Kawasaki will no doubt be even more expensive. You're not going to convince any teenager to pick one over a Ninja/Z125 (or the alternatives from other brands) that can go much further and faster for the same price or less, or get the daily commuters to pick one over a 125 scooter that's just as if not more practical.

[Richard230]

And then there is the issue of what resale and trade-in value will be when you want to upgrade your ride. Of course this will depend upon the MSRP of the Kawasaki e-1's, but I wouldn't bet that they will be less expensive than their ICE 400cc versions, which have a long track record of reliability and happy owners.

[Specter]

You won't convince the teenager to buy one, but the parents who are buying the kid a bike, THEY are the ones who'd probably pick this over said ninja etc because it looks and sounds safer.

Aaron

[princec]

I don't think parents think like that... if they are remotely put off by safety, the kid doesn't get a bike, end of story.

These bikes from Kawasaki basically compete with 50cc machines over here in Europe, but will likely be over twice as expensive and I doubt they'll find much of a market. I am wondering exactly how the powers occupying the loftier offices at Honda, Yamaha, etc. haven't noticed what Zero are doing and reckoning perhaps they could be doing that too but cheaper and/or better.

Cas

[Stonewolf]

If these things are anywhere close to the A1 spec FXE in price it'll be a really hard sell in comparison. One thing Zero did right is make their A1 compliance fit just within the rules, continuous power less than 11kW/15hp and anything else goes, including peak power over the limit and more torque than any 125 can dream of.

The thing about these is no enthusiast is gonna want one and in Europe the moment you go beyond scoots most of the market is enthusiasts. A1 bikes (as opposed to scoots in the same category) are mainly bought by kids and learners who want to get a bigger bike eventually and are working within the licencing regime until they're allowed. They're never gonna be swayed by a less horsepower, more torque argument because while it works for a Ribelle where you don't notice below the ton anyway they're gonna walk the moment you say "top speed 55" and hit them with the awful range and charging specs. You can't pitch these things at people who want to learn and experience the joys and adventure of motorcycling with specs like that.

As for the Japan argument, Japan isn't a tiny island, it's the size of Britain and Ireland combined, you can go touring just within Japan itself. The article also gives the impression these were designed for Europe but expected to be available in other markets, the specs and description give the impression that these were built for markets where motorcycles are still the personal motor vehicle and being brought to Europe as an afterthought (except the price will inevitably be wrong for those markets). It doesn't line up.

[wavelet]

I don't think parents think like that... if they are remotely put off by safety, the kid doesn't get a bike, end of story.

These bikes from Kawasaki basically compete with 50cc machines over here in Europe, but will likely be over twice as expensive and I doubt they'll find much of a market. I am wondering exactly how the powers occupying the loftier offices at Honda, Yamaha, etc. haven't noticed what Zero are doing and reckoning perhaps they could be doing that too but cheaper and/or better.

Cas

Exactly. These are 50cc-class equivalent bikes except for the visual design. Not 125, let along 400. Top speed is insufficient for suburban commuting, which requires 70-75mph cruising (not top speed).
These aren't really motorcycles, but scooters in motorcycle clothing.

[Bodo]

3024 - I know the traditional Japanese manufacturers are late; but this seems a little harsh

Anyways, the electricity of the bike seems to be designed around the two swap-able batteries. Those batteries are determined by a consortium of motorcycle manufacturers and are supposed to be swapped between models. Size of the batteries is limited by maximum weight, so everybody can handle these and charge them in a condo or office.

No doubt, the output of these batteries will limit the maximum current and thus the bike's performance.

For the European Union, they could even comply this bike in the 50cc class "L1e", where the mean power limit is 4kW (5.44 PS) with a top speed limit of 45km/h (28mph).

None of the swap-battery-bikes will ever compete with A1-licence Zeros.

[wavelet]

3024 - I know the traditional Japanese manufacturers are late; but this seems a little harsh

Anyways, the electricity of the bike seems to be designed around the two swap-able batteries. Those batteries are determined by a consortium of motorcycle manufacturers and are supposed to be swapped between models. Size of the batteries is limited by maximum weight, so everybody can handle these and charge them in a condo or office.

No doubt, the output of these batteries will limit the maximum current and thus the bike's performance.

For the European Union, they could even comply this bike in the 50cc class "L1e", where the mean power limit is 4kW (5.44 PS) with a top speed limit of 45km/h (28mph).

None of the swap-battery-bikes will ever compete with A1-licence Zeros.

That's exactly what I expect -- these will be L1e-category "bikes" (more like pedal-less mopeds). The consortium's batteries (all the Japanese Big 4, Piaggio and oddly KTM, IIRC) are intended for urban scooters (not stand-up scooters), primarily, and are also thought out to enable battery-swap automated kiosks for convenient scooter rental.

[TheRan]

Here's a review along with a price, £7800 (£7300 after a government incentive). I thought it was going to be more like £5k. £2800 more than a Super Soco TC Max, which is comparable to Kawasaki's top 125s in price, is never going to sell. I seriously can't imagine a single person buying one when anyone with that much to spend would surely think more logically. Hell you could easily get a lightly used 11kW Zero for that much. Also it's uncomfortable and cramped with poor suspension, tyres, and brakes. Probably the only good thing about it is a 4 year warranty with 5 years on the batteries.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/kawasaki/z-e-1/2024/

[Richard230]

Here's a review along with a price, £7800 (£7300 after a government incentive). I thought it was going to be more like £5k. £2800 more than a Super Soco TC Max, which is comparable to Kawasaki's top 125s in price, is never going to sell. I seriously can't imagine a single person buying one when anyone with that much to spend would surely think more logically. Hell you could easily get a lightly used 11kW Zero for that much. Also it's uncomfortable and cramped with poor suspension, tyres, and brakes. Probably the only good thing about it is a 4 year warranty with 5 years on the batteries.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/kawasaki/z-e-1/2024/

I agree. I think the 400cc twin ICE versions of these bikes sell for around $6-$7K USD (depending upon the model and if they have ABS or not) in the U.S. Those bikes have a top speed of over 100 mph, are very reliable and can be repaired at every Kawasaki dealership, most independent shops, and by many owners in their garage. I have a feeling that will not be the case with the EV versions.