ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: NervEasy on November 17, 2019, 05:56:06 PM
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Hi,
I'm from Belgium and I'm new to the forum. I'm seriously thinking about buying a 11kw ZF14.4kw Zero S 2020 next year arround februari and I had a few questions... I know I should ask these questions at a dealership but, none of the dealerships I mailed have responded.
- Are there Zero riders from Belgium on the forum? Can you guys recommend a dealer? I'm riding a Super Soco TCMax (reason for my addiction to electric motorbikes) at the moment and had a horrible (horrible...) dealer experience with it...
- I have read that all the 2020 models will have the nextgen app connectivity. Can anyone confirm that for the S model? When I download the nextgen app at the moment it seems tailor made for the SR/F and not any other type of bike...
- Does the nextgen app connectivity come standard with GPS location and cellular connectivity, as in: can you check up on your bike from anywhere?
- The bike will have to live outdoor for almost it's entire life. Is this a big no no for a Zero bike or is it doable with the correct maintenance? I know that you cannot ride below -5 °C and it should be connected to a charger, this is not a deal breaker for me.
- Is it possible to install a charge tank at a later date? I have read conflicting things about this.
- Can anyone explain how the 11KW version of the bike actually has 44kw. I have read a lot of explanations already but still cannot wrap my head arround the fact that for example it's legal to drive the Yamaha MT125 and the 11kw Zero with an A1 license here in Belgium but the Yamaha does 0-100 in 13 seconds and the zero in 5.
anyway thank you guys for taking the time if you want to reply to my post!
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There are clubs, https://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9447.0 I don't know any on this forum, but apparently there are quite a few in the Netherlands, too. https://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9480.0
The S lineup still uses the old app. It does connect wirelessly, but requires your bluetooth capable device. They don't have the cell network built into the bike like the SR/F. I really wish it had a charging estimation but it doesn't.
The bike is waterproof, but this will lower its lifespan like any motorbike. Cover it for weather. It doesn't like the cold, you could get an engine block heater or somesuch to keep it warm and dry in zero degree weather. I plan to plug one into the circuit of the charger since I don't have to choose charging or heating, but your results may vary.
The Charge Tank or the Power Tank (not both, since they take up the same space) are accessories that can be added later.
The motor size and the battery size are different things; the law is based upon energy output. But 0-60 is based upon bike weight, torque and gearing. The Zero has no gearing to worry about and no lag in torque. It's recommended to start out in Eco mode while you get used to it! I only use 40% available torque as I'm a newbie. https://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9557.0
Happy zeroing!
-Crissa
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Thank you for your reply, the bike will be sheltered from rain and wind but it will still be outside :(
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A second layer is always good if you can manage it. More surface area reduces humidity, more layers reduce infiltration. A source of heat as weak at an incandescent light bulb underneath can create a drying draft to throw off the chill. You don't have to seal everything, just keep it from sitting over a puddle ^-^
-Crissa
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Hi,
I'm from Belgium and I'm new to the forum. I'm seriously thinking about buying a 11kw ZF14.4kw Zero S 2020 next year arround februari and I had a few questions... I know I should ask these questions at a dealership but, none of the dealerships I mailed have responded.
- Are there Zero riders from Belgium on the forum? Can you guys recommend a dealer? I'm riding a Super Soco TCMax (reason for my addiction to electric motorbikes) at the moment and had a horrible (horrible...) dealer experience with it...
I'm from Belgium! I bought my Zero SR/F in 8550 Zwevegem at former Yamaha dealer Motocity. Check their website at http://www.motocity.be/ . They sell that super soco also so I hope that's not the one you're having a bad experience with.
I wanted a proper motorcycle dealer since I was swapping my Triumph Street Triple (ICE) and have more trust in their technical skills. I've been well served so far. Including a quick replacement of the front brake light switch under warranty, the first service executed and have them install the optional rear luggage rack.
No problem to do a test ride there. They have the SRF, an S and a DS (one of them is an R) ready to test. I think they even have an 11kW version for testing.
- I have read that all the 2020 models will have the nextgen app connectivity. Can anyone confirm that for the S model? When I download the nextgen app at the moment it seems tailor made for the SR/F and not any other type of bike...
Maybe in the future but I haven't seen any so far. So at the moment it's limited to the SR/F.
- Does the nextgen app connectivity come standard with GPS location and cellular connectivity, as in: can you check up on your bike from anywhere?
Yes you have GPS and cellular on the bike and the bike logs it's position to a remote service which you can query. You can get limited remote information from the app itself. Most functionality in the app is limited to bluetooth connection though. The remote API has been documented here and I have an app in the app stores to show more information that will be extended with more features in the future.
I believe the cellular option is free for 1 year but will then require payment. I have no details about this.
- The bike will have to live outdoor for almost it's entire life. Is this a big no no for a Zero bike or is it doable with the correct maintenance? I know that you cannot ride below -5 °C and it should be connected to a charger, this is not a deal breaker for me.
Where did you find that -5° limit? The limits I found in the manual are way lower than that. Only issue of having it outside all the time is that it won't charge at negative temperatures. So you won't be able to charge it over night outside.
- Is it possible to install a charge tank at a later date? I have read conflicting things about this.
Yes you can already order and install the extra 6 kW charger option for a total of 12 kW. There is a post on here from someone in the Netherlands showing pictures and his experience. I know it can be order since this month from that dealer. I don't have it installed.
To use it at full speed you'll need to find a 22kW charge station and have a 3 phase 32A charge cable. Also many charge stations are 11 kW which doesn't work with all 3 chargers. The home charger with a 230V plug on one side does 3kW max and costs 500 EUR from zero. Slightly cheaper options are available online.
The bigger battery isn't available yet. It would add 3,6kWh so still not as much as Energica offers these days with their plus models.
- Can anyone explain how the 11KW version of the bike actually has 44kw. I have read a lot of explanations already but still cannot wrap my head arround the fact that for example it's legal to drive the Yamaha MT125 and the 11kw Zero with an A1 license here in Belgium but the Yamaha does 0-100 in 13 seconds and the zero in 5.
Probably a 44kW motor which is limited by software to 11 kW. But no experience with that myself.
anyway thank you guys for taking the time if you want to reply to my post!
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Hmm yeah was Motocity :(
All was good until the first problem, bike was unsafe to ride after less than one month riding. They didn’t want to pick up the bike, so we came to an arrangement, he would supply the parts i would fit them. Then i “fixed†the part that would be replaced in the meantime so i could ride to work again. 3 days later an other error/ problem. According to me not connected to the first problem or my fix. I then drove the bike to them as I was fed up... they said they spoke with the dealer and would receive the parts that it needed in a few days...
One week later I hear the dealer picked up my bike and transported it to their warehouse (Antwerp). I did not want that as this was not the arrangement I had with the dealer. Since then the dealer dropped me like a stone. My bike was gone more than a month. Dealer didn’t want to answer my phonecalls or e-mails (never had time when I called). And then after more than a month I received an e-mail from the dealer, asking me for 800 euros as I tinkered with the bike and caused all the problems... I know this wasn’t true but I didn’t have a leg to stand on. I talked him down to 650 and I had to go and get my bike myself from Antwerp (I’m from Ghent). Funny thing, 2 days after I got my bike back one of their replacement parts failed again. I have now fixed it myself but as it is a rather crucial part of the bike (connector and cable that plugs in the battery) my trust in the bike is completely gone. I have driven 3500km on it now 2000 before the problems and the rest after.
But since then the dealer has been horrible... he never stood behind his product and it was basicly my problem with the dealer. He should have helped me. So no Motocity has lost my trust...
Maybe I’ll go to go4electric but they don’t respond to my e-mail. I send 1 mail with a few questions and they replied immediatly with a quote and answers, I followed up with 3 more questions and if could testride a bike but no response since (1week ago).
Dealers seem to be iffy here in Belgium
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Hi,
I have a 2017 S (bought Jan-2018). bought it from go4electric. I actually strongly recommend them. Always good experience and easy communication with them. Kevin (the representative) is very friendly and obviously want to do good work. Best is to call in. Not sure about there e-mail response time... They have surely all bike for demo.
As a side note. I am thinking to let the bike go early next year (so february would fit if you are interested), to possibly switch to one of the new energicas... Let me know if you are interested!
Cheers,
Seb
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Hi Seb,
Thank you for your answer.
What milage and battery type has your bike?
Did you experience issues with your bike during 3 years of ownership?
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@Hans2183 To answer you're other questions:
the -5°C limit (actually 0°C) is a bit self imposed as the bike will live outside. The manual states that when storing the bike below -5°C the bike should be charged to 100% and plugged in. And indeed the bike will not charge below 0°C. So when I cannot charge the bike I cannot ride it :)
But I think the manual stated that driving below -35°C was a no go. Could be wrong though. Can't remember exactly.
I also found your youtube channel, I live very close I think as I sometimes ride the same roads as in your videos. Good luck with you SR-F!
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Indeed -35° C is what I remember now as a limit for riding/operating. I'll use mine all year round like I did with my GS and RT before. But it doesn't get anywhere near as cold here and it charges over night indoors. I get your point now if you have to charge it outside. What could work is if you can park it indoors at work and charge there?
We have a newmotion charge station at work. The premium model goes up to 5.7 kW on that with a (rather heavy) 3x16A charge cable and the price is around 0.30 EUR/kW. I rarely use it since I can get it charged for almost half that price at home over night. The SR/F has this great feature to delay a charge automatically and only charge to a preset goal.
The good thing about newmotion is that they have a complete charging network. It was recently rebranded to ShellRecharge since it's part of that company. Getting the charger badge is free with the account and you get a nice overview and invoice monthly. Their app only shows some of the chargers used in their history and updates with the complete list once you receive the invoice (to name a down side).
Allright, too bad to hear about your bad experience with MotoCity. I'm happy so far (fingers crossed). Luckily I can always look for another dealer once it goes bad.
I did check with go4electric first since that is close to my work location in Leuven. There I could do a first test ride when the SR/F was on a demo tour. They were very friendly but indeed slow in e-mail response. Motocity was just faster once I decided to buy one. And prices are equal. That and Motocity made a good deal on my motorcycle I was selling.
If you think Zero doesn't have much dealers try Energica. I could only find one (also near Leuven) and they don't even have demo bikes so they redirected me to NL for a test ride.
There is a new one opening or rather an existing one opening a new, larger shop. Look for "Electric Scooters en Bikes Roeselare". They have a store in Brugge and now opened this new one in Gits. No experience with it just heard about it recently.
I work in Gent and Leuven and live in Flobecq which is between Ronse, Brakel & Geraardsbergen. I lived in Gent and Sint-Martens-Latem in the past. Followed my girlfriend to where we live now.
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@Nerveasy
Mileage is ~ 16 000km.
I have had 2 issues in the 3 years:
- Onboard charger failure after ~ 2000km (likely bad unit from start) => Replaced under warranty in 3 days (reason why I was happy with Go4E)
- Belt failure at 13 000km. According to dealer my belt was likely overtensioned.. Indeed the new one he placed was much more lax in place. Overall I think the belt remain one of the only weak point of the bike. Prone to failure since tension needs to be precise etc... Plus point is of course it does not need maintenance!
Aside from that, good as gold! The bike has the 13 kWh battery pack. I put some extra rear wheel rain guard (designed by Go4E) since beligum can be wet :-)
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I see, thank you for the information! To bad it’s the 13kw version, I was thinking about getting the 14.4. Maybe if the price is right? If you are thinking about selling let me know.
Oh yeah, do you have the charge tank option?
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The S lineup still uses the old app. It does connect wirelessly, but requires your bluetooth capable device. They don't have the cell network built into the bike like the SR/F. I really wish it had a charging estimation but it doesn't.
The 2020 models will supposedly use the SR/F app but I doubt it will add much, perhaps a more reliable connection and a way to view diagnostics live without having to wait for the logs to be sent over. The current app does have a charge time estimation, or at least it does with my 2019 DS. It also shows the charging watts and current, battery voltage, and some other little bits.
I see, thank you for the information! To bad it’s the 13kw version, I was thinking about getting the 14.4. Maybe if the price is right? If you are thinking about selling let me know.
Oh yeah, do you have the charge tank option?
The 13kw/h models will be 2016s and so not available in a 11kw A1 legal spec, for that you'll be looking at 2018 and 2019 models (well, I found reviews for the 11kw from 2018 but couldn't find one that old for sale).
As for why they're legal to ride on an A1 licence despite having peak power of 33/44kw, electric bikes are rated (in the eye's of the law) by their continuous power output, what they can put out over a 30 minute period. Zero tweaked the software so the power output drops sooner at a lower temperature to get them down to 11kw. I'm not certain of the exact testing procedure, whether it just measures what the power drops down to after that 30 minutes (so it could put out full power for say 25 minutes straight, which I doubt) or whether it takes an average over that period.
As someone else said, if you do get one and have only ever ridden 125s before stick it in eco mode. Even then you'll want to be careful not to just go full throttle all the time like you would on a little 125. It will still be plenty quick to accelerate and if you really need to go over 70mph you can set up a custom mode at 40% torque and however much regen you want.
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The current app does have a charge time estimation, or at least it does with my 2019 DS. It also shows the charging watts and current, battery voltage, and some other little bits.
Does it? Mine stops displaying the moment I'm out of bluetooth range.
-Crissa
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The current app does have a charge time estimation, or at least it does with my 2019 DS. It also shows the charging watts and current, battery voltage, and some other little bits.
Does it? Mine stops displaying the moment I'm out of bluetooth range.
-Crissa
That's what mine does too, I assumed that was to be expected. I don't know what they could really do otherwise except for just keeping the timer running, but with the charging current varying it's not going to be any more accurate than just setting a separate timer (which will have the added advantage of being able to set an alarm). If the SR/F can give you a charge timer when out of bluetooth range then it must be using the cellular connection.
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It reports chargetimeleft in minutes to the remote service so you can always get an updated value granted you and the bike have network.
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It's a simple calculation of available amperage and current state of charge. Yes, this varies by temperature and age and balance but for the most part it's a simple calculation - much simpler than range or Wh/mi, for instance. There's no reason the app couldn't set its own timer or calculate and estimate.
Or it could simply count the charge time left against the clock. No estimate, just 'hey, time is passing'. That'd be fine, too. But my app just erases all the data the moment I step away from the bike.
-Crissa
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I've only charged my bike the once so far but the current would vary by as much as 2 amps iirc, not over the course of hours or minutes either but seconds as I was watching it live on my phone. By my rough calculations that could account for a 47 minute difference in the time it takes to get a full charge in my specific case (7.2 battery charging at 10 to 12 amps). Depending on the exact moment I lost connection between my phone and the bike could result in a wildly different estimate on the time remaining if it calculated it based on the instantaneous current so it must do some averaging over time. I'm not sure what causes such a variance in current draw or if whatever that is could cause it to get stuck at the lower current, but if it did then a non-synced timer wouldn't be much help. Again, no better than just starting a separate timer.
Instead, if time really is crucial (say I don't want to keep it plugged in over night) then I'll just go to the bike every now and then so the app can sync up and I'll actually get an accurate estimation.
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Again, no better than just starting a separate timer.
Instead, if time really is crucial (say I don't want to keep it plugged in over night) then I'll just go to the bike every now and then so the app can sync up and I'll actually get an accurate estimation.
So it could totally have a range. Or set a timer. It's a program. It can do that.
I don't want to have to copy the amount of time over to a timer program every time. That's what computers are for.
-Crissa
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They certainly could do it, I'm just saying it's kind of understandable why they haven't bothered. Without being connected to the bike it's all just a load of guessing, hell as far as the app knows once it's lost the connection the bike could have been unplugged.
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Any of the Belgian Zero riders had any difficulty getting their number plate?
I send (e-mail) all the needed documents to my insurer (Ethias) and they say if it's an import I need to go to an Ethias office to have all the paperwork done.
I pressed and they said they would try it via online way...
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My insurance (AXA but via broker ProAssur in Gent) did get back to me at first with the papers I got from the dealer. They mentioned something about "a new system for registration" but I just told them to get in touch with the dealer instead (MotoCity Zwevegem). I did notice there was no pink paper with it like other bikes and cars normally have. Anyway next day I received my licence plate.
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Another quick question,
How is it possible for a demo bike that has 98km odometer and 97% of charge at the start of the testride and after 1.5km the charge has dropped to 92% (was a 14.4kw battery pack). The 1.5km where all done in eco setting.
Bike could be standing for a few weeks before test ride but isn't older than 4 months.
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Another quick question,
How is it possible for a demo bike that has 98km odometer and 97% of charge at the start of the testride and after 1.5km the charge has dropped to 92% (was a 14.4kw battery pack). The 1.5km where all done in eco setting.
Bike could be standing for a few weeks before test ride but isn't older than 4 months.
That's a 720w/h drop, enough to get you well over 15km with enthusiastic riding in sport mode so definitely not normal behaviour. My guess would be that the voltage had recovered after the bike had been left unused, if that's something that could be possible with this type of battery. I do know that some more conventional batteries can have their voltage recover shortly after being used so they appear more charged than they actually are, and then once they're put back under load the voltage quickly drops back down. Perhaps simply having the bike turned on for a minute or two would have allowed this to happen.
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I just picked up the bike. Demo model with 98km on the clock. 2019 Zero S with Chargetank option.
Dealer said the fast drop came from the fact the bike was not connected to the charger for 3 weeks.
Rode it 100 km today. Normal battery behavior now.
Happy with the bike so far.
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Happy with the bike so far.
Congrats!
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Thank you!
Quick question though. On the app when I check the firmware i get this screen:
https://imgur.com/a/ELRM2DT
(https://i.imgur.com/5P3nrzL_d.jpg)
Bike runs normal though and app works fine for all other things.
Any ideas?
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It says "try again later", so just do that. The firmware download service is probably having an issue.
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It’s showing this message since i got the bike (3days ago)
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Try with another connection, could be a wifi configuration issue.
If you're sure you're missing out on features you can always ask a dealer to wire it up to get the latest firmware installed.
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I tried with cellular and Wifi, same result. Tonight I will delete the app and reinstall and try again...
No idea if I'm missing out on features as I do not know what my current firmware version is.
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Take a deep breath and relax. Firmware updates are not urgent unless your bike has a problem that new firmware would fix.
If it helps, here is Zero's firmware version listing: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
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On the firmware version, anyone has the BMS version 36? I guess Zero recently updated this list with description of the changes in the versions. Somehow it only stops at 35 when there is a version 36 available. The MBB version is up to date at #29 though. Oh and this is for a 2018 S ZF13
-Shayan
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Hi NervEasy
I bought a zero sr in januari 2019 and drive it to work 50 km every day at the least ( whole year round ).
I live in Belgium also ( near Bruges ).
At the moment i have 8k km at the clock and never had an issue so far with the bike.
Today my bike has it first maintenance ( break fluid change, inspection and new tires and bought a windscreen to ).
Just in the beginning i had problems with my first dealer ( where i bought the bike ) to, they delivered my bike with a piece that was broken off on my tankplastic and the dealer said it wasnt his fault and after many phonecalls and mails and other blablablas ( timeframe off nearly 10 months ) he called me that he wouldnt be a dealer anymore for zero and that i wasnt no longer his problem. So i was left behind with my problem. ( dealer was Nlab by the way in Bruges )
After that i contacted zero HQ in the netherlands with my problem of the broken tankbag and the shitty dealer, they told me there was a new dealer in Bruges ( electric scooters & bikes ) and that my previous dealer indeed wasnt a dealer for them anymore.
So toke contact with the new dealer and went for a visite to explain the problem, men what a difference with the previous dealer, they were friendly and very helpfull and they solved my problem ( got a new tankplastic ) and since then this is my new dealer and very pleased about the professionality and help about the dealer, they now opened a new extra shop in Gits to where they do only electric motorcycles.
In general i'm very pleased with my zero sr and glad i made this choice.
Iff you want more info you may always page me or contact me, Ghent isnt that far from where i live ( 30 mins drive tops ).
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Hi Zoeloe14,
Thanks for your reply :) The store in Gits is where I got mine. Only have 800km on the clock so far and all of them in wet weather. which is proving more difficult than expected :) 1 drop already. Wheel spun up from a standing start into a corner. I travelled maybe 0.5m and went maybe 1.5km/h but huge slide and a bike down. all of this took 1 second... and a shattered ego.
Afterwards I noticed the back wheel was positioned over a bit of mud... So yeah. It doesn't take a lot even on eco setting.
Do you have get a correct readout when you try upgrading your firmware via the app?