ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: NearDeath on February 01, 2019, 07:03:45 PM
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Wanting to compile a comprehensive list of the defects in Zero Motorcycles since model year 2013 with the goal of educating dealers and owners that they may be knowledgeable and try to keep themselves safe.
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The biggest flaw is that I can't concentrate on work or anything else because I'd rather be riding my ZERO!!!
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2. People want to talk to you about your bike at stop lights while you're listening to music or podcasts.
3. Some riding gear needs replacement biyearly from daily use.
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key switches
chargers
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4. Face cramps from extended periods of smiling while riding.
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Being able to ride off in the morning without having to warm up the motorcycle before it will run properly. :)
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2016 Zero SR,
It's the chargers. Mine failed with the scary sound of frying bacon.
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When I ride off stress at 1am the lack of noise bothering my neighbors means my stress drifts off into the air so that can't be good for the air I guess.
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The stress of not knowing who is a gashole being nice to your face but talking behind your back with disdain from people who are generally nice but maybe you should just accept people as they present themselves to you because that's how they want to be but then are you just being a dupe when you should be channeling your inner evholeness? 2016 SR.
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2016 S: The motor bearing failed right before the warranty expired so I did get a replacement motor free of charge.
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Go to the recalls list part of zero unofficial manual, gives you a good basis to start with. By the way you should add your list to this wiki-like site, would help everybody
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I had a near death experience with my key switch failing. Now I'm hearing this has happened to dozens of others and is one of several defects that the office here has raised with HQ. Basically the key switches are falling apart. When this happens the bike turns off, no throttle, no lights, no horn, no ABS, no nothing. It happened to me Wednesday evening just as it had gotten dark. Had there been any snow or ice on the road, I'd be dead.
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What model / year ?
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Could you still control the handlebars and use the brakes?
If so, why was that near death? Sounds like running out of gas on an ICE bike.
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Here's a quick list of what I've contributed to the wiki in various forms but not collated:- The Sevcon DC-DC converter's connector isn't ingress-rated or protected.
- The lack of traction control and high wheel spin-up rate on traction loss are a risk factor that can lead to accidents.
- The onboard charger conducts heat into the bottom of the battery.
- The onboard charger inlet is not self-cleaning or ingress-protected and can lead to faults.
- Faults in the onboard charger and/or the DC-DC converter can impact other systems.
- The MBB/ECU's sensing lines have various lacks of electrical protection that can ruin the board.
- The accessory charging port cap shields moisture and debris from the rear but not from above or in front and can trap moisture from those directions. The port cap can also easily come off anyway.
- The dash is sealed in a way that prevents reasonable repair, or of replacement of its internal battery.
- The way the seat joins to the tail and bolts in as part of the support of the top rack or side racks is an impediment to owner road-side checking or replacement of fuses, and also is a structural flaw in the luggage rack support.
- The belt drive has no lower guard to reduce debris ingress.
- The frame's aluminum construction tends to be brittle.
- The frame's absolutely minimal internal spacing makes servicing (by dealers or owners) unnecessarily labor-intensive, and makes the platform very difficult to instrument or extend.
- The dual-BMS architecture for the X platform and the S platform's Power Tank feature has no owner-accessible diagnostic support other than Error Codes, making troubleshooting outside of a dealership require excessive effort.
- The mobile application is grossly inadequate for road-side servicing, and hasn't been attended to as a design matter for five years.
- Battery heat monitoring has extremely little support in the mobile application or dash. There are several temperature sensors and we have no idea where they are located after five years with this platform.
- The owner's manual does not specify a service interval or specification for re-greasing the various places on the bike that require it.
- The owner's manual does not convey the risk involved in an uncalibrated controller-motor alignment.
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I had a near death experience with my key switch failing. Now I'm hearing this has happened to dozens of others and is one of several defects that the office here has raised with HQ. Basically the key switches are falling apart. When this happens the bike turns off, no throttle, no lights, no horn, no ABS, no nothing. It happened to me Wednesday evening just as it had gotten dark. Had there been any snow or ice on the road, I'd be dead.
As a new forum member, you're going to have to provide a lot more information than this about a "key switch" failure or I will lock this thread. I've been aware of a few problems with Zeros over the years but never anything with a key switch. I'm going to need a year and model of YOUR Zero and a link or two (or a dozen) to other key switch failures as you have alleged. "Dozens"? Really?
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I don't consider "lack of traction control" to be an issue with the bike. I've been riding since 1982 and have almost a million miles under my butt including multiple track days and some (unplanned) off road excursions and only ONCE did I ever say to myself: "Gee, I wish I had traction control." That was when it rained overnight and I was having difficulty getting my Yamaha TMAX out from the mud puddle that developed around it and on to the road. The CVT made it impossible to feed in just the right amount of throttle to move the bike under its own power; every attempt resulted in the wheel just spinning up and flinging mud everywhere. It took a couple of us slipping and sliding to push it onto dry ground. A traditional clutch would've allowed me to feather in just the right amount of throttle to avoid wheel spin and that's the ticket to real-world "Traction control:" Understanding there is an INFINITE number of throttle positions between fully closed and WFO.
Between my 2016 and 2018 Zero Ses, I have a little over 19,000 miles on Zeros and never once felt I needed traction control. Learning how to properly modulate the "throttle" is the way to go unless you're a road racer looking to shave another tenth off of your lap time.
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I don't consider "lack of traction control" to be an issue with the bike. I've been riding since 1982 and have almost a million miles under my butt including multiple track days and some (unplanned) off road excursions and only ONCE did I ever say to myself: "Gee, I wish I had traction control." That was when it rained overnight and I was having difficulty getting my Yamaha TMAX out from the mud puddle that developed around it and on to the road. The CVT made it impossible to feed in just the right amount of throttle to move the bike under its own power; every attempt resulted in the wheel just spinning up and flinging mud everywhere. It took a couple of us slipping and sliding to push it onto dry ground. A traditional clutch would've allowed me to feather in just the right amount of throttle to avoid wheel spin and that's the ticket to real-world "Traction control:" Understanding there is an INFINITE number of throttle positions between fully closed and WFO.
Between my 2016 and 2018 Zero Ses, I have a little over 19,000 miles on Zeros and never once felt I needed traction control. Learning how to properly modulate the "throttle" is the way to go unless you're a road racer looking to shave another tenth off of your lap time.
Please, posturing is not helpful. The fact is, the wheel can break loose and spin up rapidly, and it has demonstrably caused some riders some problems.
I have personally experienced a loss of traction that induced a fishtail at speed several times while I lived in Seattle, on a 2013 DS. It's a risk factor that is worth mitigating.
Even with my now-honed skills and throttle sensitivity assists on my 2016 DSR, the wheel still can break traction and spin up when I don't want it to, and it absolutely is a risk factor that might contribute to an accident if I'm unable to keep it under control due to other factors.
Risk is complicated, and I'm pointing out a factor in the bike's systems design and setup that contributes to it.
EDIT: I have 26000 miles logged on the 2013 DS and 38000 miles logged on the 2016 DSR, and have logged travel in all kinds of weather, including snow.
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Lack of traction control is only a problem for people who don't have any business riding a moto in anything other than training circumstances. Obviously this includes a whole lot of people who consider themselves "experienced". Sitting on a bike riding it at 10% of its limit for hundreds of hours can give you lots of experience, but not in bike handling.
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This, again, is posturing.
I, for one, recognize that my training keeps me as safe as I can manage, and that it helps me identify when traction loss is a risk so I can plan around it.
But I can also respectfully recognize that those with incomplete training, OR those who have been distracted momentarily and are not sufficiently in control of a situation, might wind up with an accident because the bike's traction loss characteristics (high wheel spin-up faster than an ICE motorcycle).
I'm not saying the lack of traction control is "a problem". I'm saying it tips the scale in favor of an accident.
EXAMPLE: Let's say you're riding at night in the rain, and enter a curve at a reasonable speed with a steady throttle hand. You might lose traction because of a surprise oil patch, and the wheel might spin up faster than on an ICE bike, and you haven't encountered that fast spin-up before. If you're alert and trained, you can take care of it. But you might be distracted by oncoming traffic or pressured by other emergent circumstances (gravel! bad pavement!) in a way that contributes to a low-side. In this case, the traction loss characteristics of the bike were a contributing factor.
NB: I must point out that we're disputing exactly one in my list of 17 items as though we must defend our personal skill levels in order to be taken seriously.
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If you don't have basic competency at handling the vehicle you shouldn't be using it in situations where losing control is a concern, like on a roadway.
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If you fish tail when you spin up a rear wheel, you are over controlling the bike. Period
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How many guys here have as much time on a Zero as BrianTRice?
If you follow the ZMOG FB group, you'll see racers and professional motorcycle riders echoing what he is saying. There is a unique torque situation that exists on the Zero bikes that doesn't have an equal on ICE bikes. And it has bitten some riders, good riders. Who are now leery of the Zero bikes as a result. It's worth considering they may be right on this.
I suspect it will be a moot point in the future as I bet traction control is coming soon to a Zero near you.
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I think this is an important discussion but too often it boils down to being "against" or "for" zero instead of an honest discussion of the qualities of the bike.
The framing is often at the extreme ends, either "Traction control is in your wrist" dismissing the realities of the electic drivetrain, or "Without traction control you're GOING DOWN" alarmist over-reacting.
To me the obvious truth is somewhat in the middle. The torque of the electric motor means that wheelspin is easier to achieve on the Zero than most ICE bikes, so riders should understand and be aware/wary of it when riding. This doesn't make a Zero automatically more dangerous than any other bike, but an unaware uncareful rider is more dangerous. A lot of riders approach electric bikes with a dismissive attitude and don't respect or understand the differences between electric and ICE.
So an informed, trained rider who understands and respects the Zero's qualities isn't in significant danger because of no traction control.
But whether it's necessary to a skilled rider or not, it would be a very welcomed feature that could potentially save lives, so there's no point in being vocal and proud of "not needing it". The addition of traction control could save lives, but also it would make the bike more approachable and comfortable for those riders that are currently scared off by the situation.
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For me, I respect the torque it has like I did riding the Honda Magna.
It can be a problem if you don't adjust your driving style.
So traction control is not needed but very helpfull to have it on an EV.
Personaly I hate ABS, TC and all other.
But that's just me.
I still buy the EV with those.
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During my second test ride, I was on a 2017 DSR and was making a right turn in front of a bunch of Harley riders. I thought 'i'll get on it through the turn and coming out and have these guys thinking what did I just see??'. I rolled on the throttle as I would on my Street triple and all of a sudden, the rear end was going sideways.. and fast. In tune with what I was doing, I chopped the throttle, quickly recovered, checked my pants and kept on riding. I almost low sided it, but it didn't stop me or worry me about riding these things, I quickly realized electric motors needed to be handled a little differently than ICE bikes and I kinda wanted to get one more (I mean.. that torque!!). Shenanigans made easy :). I have also been sideways on my old GSXR 750 accidentally in rain (again, cut throttle quickly and recovered just fine), and sideways intentionally on my Yamaha warrior a few times, so while breaking traction was a surprise, it kinda wasn't and I was still able to react prevent an accident. I think there are alot of riders out there like me who don't see a lack of TC as an issue, and there are plenty who would love the peace of mind that they never have to worry about it. This has been quite the debate on here over time, and I think for Zeros target audience it would be a good idea for them to have it, but my personal feeling is it doesn't bother me at all. I dont think its a 'defect' but its a wish-list item and for the mean time something to be mindful of.
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The only draw back for me with TC is the up front cost and repair cost if or when it goes out.
I really learned to ride on a Zero so it's what I'm used to. But I can see some people wanting it and I don't mind if they do, in this market whatever gets butts on bikes is fine with me.
I've never had a problem even with my DSR I just wait till I'm fairly upright again to punch it.
I do think they will include it in the near future regardless just to CYA so to speak.
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I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
The core problem is that the system is designed with the battery, then the DC-DC converter and MBB powered off of that (but upstream of the contactor, since the contactor really mainly isolates the motor controller and charging circuits).
There are interlocks and safety cutouts that have the MBB signal the DC-DC converter to turn off, disabling the entire 12V system including the signal lights, etc., when the core goal is to stop the powertrain.
I think this is a design flaw that exacerbates riders' frustrations when things go wrong.
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The spade connector at the Zero's female plug (just behind the frame member) is prone to causing overheating problems in the plug area (ie, lots of melting and a bad stench) because the contact area for the current is minimal. I've since replaced mine (with another spade and receptacle), and so far, so good. Always check for warmth behind the frame member when charging.
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The going dark issue is definately the biggest flaw/safety issue of the Zero in my eyes.
It would be nice to have even a very small 12v battery backup to alleviate this problem.
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I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
When/where/how does this occur?
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I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
When/where/how does this occur?
I have not had an "ignition" lock failure, but there's a known issue where moisture around it can cause problems, at the very least:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Ignition
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Ignition_Switch
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Common_Problems#Power_Cutout_Failure
It's a keyed somewhat-secured interlock with the MBB. But any fault on it is naturally worse than say a kickstand sensor fault.
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The going dark issue is definately the biggest flaw/safety issue of the Zero in my eyes.
It would be nice to have even a very small 12v battery backup to alleviate this problem.
For the new SR/F, there's a potential for a 12V battery to be included by necessity AFAICT because:
- The platform battery voltage will be higher.
- Per electrical safety regulations for vehicles, higher voltages cannot be allowed to cross any owner-accessible switch like the ignition.
- Therefore, a 12V battery would be required to work the ignition.
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The Harley guy was pointing to what seemed to be a 12V battery on the Livewire.
Brings up how will it be charged, and still gives you a possible dark out when it does die.
I saw videos of early Teslas having their 12V lead acid car battery die after sitting at the airport for about 2 weeks and the owner didn't even know their car had them. Of course the car doors work off that battery so they couldn't get in the car at all.
The battery was behind the oval "grill" but they didn't know it.
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I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.
Also, just to add my 2 cents: 2014 Zero S. Onboard charger failed twice. Less than a year out of warranty and Zero thankfully replaced it for free anyways, thank you. But the charger failed again a couple months ago and the bike is sitting, as I am broke. But in addition, there was a period where my bike was in the shop for about 2 months as Zero techs and the dealership replaced parts. I believe the controller was replaced.
So now this bike dying randomly issue is major problem #4. But to troubleshoot that, I need to charge the bike. If anyone has a cheap charger onboard/offboard/anything, let me know.
-Alan
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Off board for sale in the for sale section.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8662.0
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I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.
Also, just to add my 2 cents: 2014 Zero S. Onboard charger failed twice. Less than a year out of warranty and Zero thankfully replaced it for free anyways, thank you. But the charger failed again a couple months ago and the bike is sitting, as I am broke. But in addition, there was a period where my bike was in the shop for about 2 months as Zero techs and the dealership replaced parts. I believe the controller was replaced.
So now this bike dying randomly issue is major problem #4. But to troubleshoot that, I need to charge the bike. If anyone has a cheap charger onboard/offboard/anything, let me know.
That's terrible! Honestly, you may have one of a variety of wiring defects.
I live nearby in SF, and can at least visit with a charger (on late Monday or sometime Tuesday) to get your battery charged up and balanced. I think any old Zero Quick (QuiQ) Charger would do to get you by.
But there are plenty of others in the SF bay area here.
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The Harley guy was pointing to what seemed to be a 12V battery on the Livewire.
Brings up how will it be charged, and still gives you a possible dark out when it does die.
I saw videos of early Teslas having their 12V lead acid car battery die after sitting at the airport for about 2 weeks and the owner didn't even know their car had them. Of course the car doors work off that battery so they couldn't get in the car at all.
The battery was behind the oval "grill" but they didn't know it.
My understanding is that the BMW C-Evolution scooter also has a separate 12V battery to operate non-power-train systems. I have no idea how it is recharged, but my guess is that it uses a separate 12V charger to do so that recharges the battery at the same time as when the battery pack is being charged. ???
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The 12 volt battery on the c evolution, prius, livewire, are charged off the main power battires with dc to dc converter. You turn the ignition switch on and you have 14.2 volts on the 12 volt system.
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The ktm freeride has a small 12 volt battery but if you have the key on and the kill switch on the handlebar off the headlight can run down the little battery. Any idea if the other motorcycles are likewise? I ran a fuel injected ice bike down that way to the point the clock stopped and was able to coast start it.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned a very common mechanical failure.
At around ever 12k miles, the wheel bearings to be popped out and replaced as this appears to be their lifetime.
Maybe it's not a defect.
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I have seen external chargers for 300 to 600 euros on ebay. Also look at F1racing site - they sometime have parts at 10% the normal price. Good luck !
I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.
Also, just to add my 2 cents: 2014 Zero S. Onboard charger failed twice. Less than a year out of warranty and Zero thankfully replaced it for free anyways, thank you. But the charger failed again a couple months ago and the bike is sitting, as I am broke. But in addition, there was a period where my bike was in the shop for about 2 months as Zero techs and the dealership replaced parts. I believe the controller was replaced.
So now this bike dying randomly issue is major problem #4. But to troubleshoot that, I need to charge the bike. If anyone has a cheap charger onboard/offboard/anything, let me know.
-Alan
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned a very common mechanical failure.
At around ever 12k miles, the wheel bearings to be popped out and replaced as this appears to be their lifetime.
Maybe it's not a defect.
That's a defect for pre-2015 models. 2015+ model bearing life appears to be a somewhat more tolerable 40,000 miles or more.
There are some defects specific to pre-2015 models; the suspension, bearings, and brakes are under-rated mainly.
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I'm really hoping they have a lot of this stuff ironed out in the 2019 models.
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Indeed - I had this problem and my dealer lied to me telling this was normal use of a bearing and me to pay. A good example of lousy service: had Zero informed that bearings needed to be replaced, it would have taken 2 hours and 100 $. My bike was blocked 3 months and I was overcharged by the dealer.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned a very common mechanical failure.
At around ever 12k miles, the wheel bearings to be popped out and replaced as this appears to be their lifetime.
Maybe it's not a defect.
That's a defect for pre-2015 models. 2015+ model bearing life appears to be a somewhat more tolerable 40,000 miles or more.
There are some defects specific to pre-2015 models; the suspension, bearings, and brakes are under-rated mainly.
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I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.
Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.
I probably had it happen yesterday evening. My FXS power cycled by itself when I was at a stop. The log reported a CPU soft reset:
07539 02/04/2019 17:15:17 Riding PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.732V, MotAmps: 46, BattAmps: 1, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 16C, CtrlTemp: 9C, AmbTemp: 6C, MotRPM: 16, Odo: 1407km
07540 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Power Off Key Switch
07541 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Sevcon Turned Off
07542 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Module 00 vmod: 115.671V, batt curr: 0A
07543 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Module 01 vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
07544 02/04/2019 17:15:52 INFO: Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
07545 02/04/2019 17:15:52 INFO: Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
07546 02/04/2019 17:15:53 Turning OFF DCDC. Flags: 0x00
07547 02/04/2019 17:15:53 CPU Soft Reset: Power Down Interrupted by Key On
07548 0 DEBUG: Reset: External
07549 0 BMS Reset Unknown
07550 0 Key On
07551 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Running mode
07552 0 Module 00 vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
07553 0 Module 01 vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
07554 0 Turning ON DCDC
07555 0 Module 00 CAN Link Up
07556 0 Module 00 serial: 18gb0172, vmod: 115.683V
07557 02/04/2019 17:15:56 Sevcon Turned On
07558 02/04/2019 17:15:57 Sevcon CAN Link Up
07559 02/04/2019 17:15:57 DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
07560 02/04/2019 17:15:58 Module 00 vmod: 115.7 maxsys: 115.7 minsys: 115.7 diff: 0.000 vcap: 106.062 prechg: 91%
07561 02/04/2019 17:15:58 DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
07562 02/04/2019 17:15:58 INFO: Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
07563 02/04/2019 17:15:58 INFO: Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
07564 02/04/2019 17:16:05 Riding PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.692V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 19C, CtrlTemp: 9C, AmbTemp: 6C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 1407km
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I probably had it happen yesterday evening. My FXS power cycled by itself when I was at a stop. The log reported a CPU soft reset:
07539 02/04/2019 17:15:17 Riding PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.732V, MotAmps: 46, BattAmps: 1, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 16C, CtrlTemp: 9C, AmbTemp: 6C, MotRPM: 16, Odo: 1407km
07540 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Power Off Key Switch
07541 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Sevcon Turned Off
07542 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Module 00 vmod: 115.671V, batt curr: 0A
07543 02/04/2019 17:15:52 Module 01 vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
07544 02/04/2019 17:15:52 INFO: Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
07545 02/04/2019 17:15:52 INFO: Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
07546 02/04/2019 17:15:53 Turning OFF DCDC. Flags: 0x00
07547 02/04/2019 17:15:53 CPU Soft Reset: Power Down Interrupted by Key On
07548 0 DEBUG: Reset: External
07549 0 BMS Reset Unknown
07550 0 Key On
07551 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Running mode
07552 0 Module 00 vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
07553 0 Module 01 vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
07554 0 Turning ON DCDC
07555 0 Module 00 CAN Link Up
07556 0 Module 00 serial: 18gb0172, vmod: 115.683V
07557 02/04/2019 17:15:56 Sevcon Turned On
07558 02/04/2019 17:15:57 Sevcon CAN Link Up
07559 02/04/2019 17:15:57 DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
07560 02/04/2019 17:15:58 Module 00 vmod: 115.7 maxsys: 115.7 minsys: 115.7 diff: 0.000 vcap: 106.062 prechg: 91%
07561 02/04/2019 17:15:58 DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
07562 02/04/2019 17:15:58 INFO: Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
07563 02/04/2019 17:15:58 INFO: Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
07564 02/04/2019 17:16:05 Riding PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.692V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 19C, CtrlTemp: 9C, AmbTemp: 6C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 1407km
I think the key line here is Power Off Key Switch. That means the bike thought you keyed it off. So perhaps your ignition is going bad.
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In responding to another post (regarding the upcoming SR/F), I just remembered something I DO consider a design defect:
Buell's XB and 1125R motorcycles came equipped with a Goodyear drive belt under constant tension (Harleys come equipped with Gates belts that are under varying tension depending on suspension load). Those belts were designed to last the lifetime of the bike and never required adjustment.
Zero's belts are also under constant tension since the drive pulley is directly inline with the swingarm pivot. Why should they require adjustment? Why is there even an adjustment setting? The electric motor provides far less "shocks" to the drive belt than Buell's big, thumping V-Twin engines. Barring damage, I can't understand why Zero's belts shouldn't also last the life of the motorcycle.
And speaking of "barring damage," why doesn't Zero provide adequate protection of their belt by providing both upper and LOWER belt guards??
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The belt width has been increased on recent models. This should result in a significant, non-linear improvement in belt life.
A belt guard might be nice if it was not too ugly. However, for the street, it's just not that critical, and for dirt, it would still be wholly inadequate.
I found the factory tensioning to be 4 times tighter than spec, and was a bit surprised/annoyed/glad to adjust it. Because the setting is rather sensitive, it is impossible to just do away with the adjustment without some form of tensioning.
The Buell solution (shown below) indeed looks very elegant. On a Zero it might even alleviate the need for chain on the dirt! But the extra tensioner wheel and spring and beefy brackets would come at significant cost and added weight. And if your belt did snap or lose teeth, you'd need to test the tensioner to rule it out as the cause.
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That tensioner wheel on the Buell is fixed. It is designed to keep the tension constant because the output pulley is NOT in line with the swingarm pivot. That means that as the suspension is compressed, the output pulley moves further away from the input pulley increasing tension, whereas when the suspension is unloaded, the output pulley moves closer to the input pulley reducing tension. This is what happens on a Harley Davidson or an Indian. The pulley on the Buell was located in such a manner that no matter the suspension load, the tension on the belt remained constant.
That tensioner wheel is not needed on the Zero because the input pulley is directly inline with the swingarm pivot. As I mentioned above, that means no matter the suspension load, there is no change to the tension on the belt; it is always the same. And a lower guard is DEFINITELY important on the street unless you live somewhere they keep the streets cleaned of ALL debris at all times. I know for a fact that is NOT the case in New York (had to replace a windshield on my car because of a rock thrown up by a car in front of me).
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That tensioner wheel is not needed on the Zero because the input pulley is directly inline with the swingarm pivot.
If Buell's pulley was directly in line with the pivot, they would leave out the tensioner, and they would add a screw adjuster. Some form of adjustment is absolutely required. The tolerances are too tight not to; a fraction of a turn on the adjustment screw makes a dramatic difference in tension because there is next to no stretch. If a manufacturer was stupid enough to leave out tension adjustment, they would inevitably have to recall and replace all the swingarms.
And a lower guard is DEFINITELY important on the street unless you live somewhere they keep the streets cleaned of ALL debris at all times. I know for a fact that is NOT the case in New York (had to replace a windshield on my car because of a rock thrown up by a car in front of me).
I'm comparing my FX and KTM right now. The KTM has an exquisitely designed heavy lower guard, as it needs to plow through deep dirt, mud and sand all day. On the FX a guard would have to be quite large because of the large sprocket. Maybe Zero could have an accessory that bolts into the bottom of the swingarm. But if one sticks to pavement and occasional gravel, the chance of a rock getting in there is small.
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If a manufacturer was stupid enough to leave out tension adjustment, they would inevitably have to recall and replace all the swingarms.
Never happened, and I've got lots of friends with Buells still riding on their original belts and swingarms too.
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If a manufacturer was stupid enough to leave out tension adjustment, they would inevitably have to recall and replace all the swingarms.
Never happened, and I've got lots of friends with Buells still riding on their original belts and swingarms too.
What you said makes little sense because Buells clearly do have tension adjustment, automatic by spring, identical concept to automotive accessory belts.
I took your initial comment as meaning no form of tension adjustment is needed, which is not true. If you were arguing that Zero should use an automatic tensioner wheel, you didn't say that... and I already explained why that's less necessary plus doesn't justify the cost.