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[Jarrett]

I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.

When/where/how does this occur?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.

When/where/how does this occur?

I have not had an "ignition" lock failure, but there's a known issue where moisture around it can cause problems, at the very least:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Ignition
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Ignition_Switch
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Common_Problems#Power_Cutout_Failure

It's a keyed somewhat-secured interlock with the MBB. But any fault on it is naturally worse than say a kickstand sensor fault.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The going dark issue is definately the biggest flaw/safety issue of the Zero in my eyes.

It would be nice to have even a very small 12v battery backup to alleviate this problem.

For the new SR/F, there's a potential for a 12V battery to be included by necessity AFAICT because:
- The platform battery voltage will be higher.
- Per electrical safety regulations for vehicles, higher voltages cannot be allowed to cross any owner-accessible switch like the ignition.
- Therefore, a 12V battery would be required to work the ignition.

[NEW2elec]

The Harley guy was pointing to what seemed to be a 12V battery on the Livewire.
Brings up how will it be charged, and still gives you a possible dark out when it does die.
I saw videos of early Teslas having their 12V lead acid car battery die after sitting at the airport for about 2 weeks and the owner didn't even know their car had them.  Of course the car doors work off that battery so they couldn't get in the car at all.
The battery was behind the oval "grill" but they didn't know it.

[Manzanita]

I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.

Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.

Also, just to add my 2 cents: 2014 Zero S. Onboard charger failed twice. Less than a year out of warranty and Zero thankfully replaced it for free anyways, thank you. But the charger failed again a couple months ago and the bike is sitting, as I am broke. But in addition, there was a period where my bike was in the shop for about 2 months as Zero techs and the dealership replaced parts. I believe the controller was replaced.

So now this bike dying randomly issue is major problem #4.  But to troubleshoot that, I need to charge the bike. If anyone has a cheap charger onboard/offboard/anything, let me know.

-Alan

[NEW2elec]

Off board for sale in the for sale section.

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8662.0

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.

Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.

Also, just to add my 2 cents: 2014 Zero S. Onboard charger failed twice. Less than a year out of warranty and Zero thankfully replaced it for free anyways, thank you. But the charger failed again a couple months ago and the bike is sitting, as I am broke. But in addition, there was a period where my bike was in the shop for about 2 months as Zero techs and the dealership replaced parts. I believe the controller was replaced.

So now this bike dying randomly issue is major problem #4.  But to troubleshoot that, I need to charge the bike. If anyone has a cheap charger onboard/offboard/anything, let me know.

That's terrible! Honestly, you may have one of a variety of wiring defects.

I live nearby in SF, and can at least visit with a charger (on late Monday or sometime Tuesday) to get your battery charged up and balanced. I think any old Zero Quick (QuiQ) Charger would do to get you by.

But there are plenty of others in the SF bay area here.

[Richard230]

The Harley guy was pointing to what seemed to be a 12V battery on the Livewire.
Brings up how will it be charged, and still gives you a possible dark out when it does die.
I saw videos of early Teslas having their 12V lead acid car battery die after sitting at the airport for about 2 weeks and the owner didn't even know their car had them.  Of course the car doors work off that battery so they couldn't get in the car at all.
The battery was behind the oval "grill" but they didn't know it.

My understanding is that the BMW C-Evolution scooter also has a separate 12V battery to operate non-power-train systems.  I have no idea how it is recharged, but my guess is that it uses a separate 12V charger to do so that recharges the battery at the same time as when the battery pack is being charged. 

[Crilly]

The 12 volt battery on the c evolution, prius, livewire, are charged off the main power battires with dc to dc converter.  You turn the ignition switch on and you have 14.2 volts on the 12 volt system.

[Fran K]

The ktm freeride has a small 12 volt battery but if you have the key on and the kill switch on the handlebar off the headlight can run down the little battery.  Any idea if the other motorcycles are likewise?  I ran a fuel injected ice bike down that way to the point the clock stopped and was able to coast start it.

[DynoMutt]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a very common mechanical failure.

At around ever 12k miles, the wheel bearings to be popped out and replaced as this appears to be their lifetime.

Maybe it's not a defect.

[Moto7575]

I have seen external chargers for 300 to 600 euros on ebay. Also look at F1racing site - they sometime have parts at 10% the normal price. Good luck !

I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.

Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.

Also, just to add my 2 cents: 2014 Zero S. Onboard charger failed twice. Less than a year out of warranty and Zero thankfully replaced it for free anyways, thank you. But the charger failed again a couple months ago and the bike is sitting, as I am broke. But in addition, there was a period where my bike was in the shop for about 2 months as Zero techs and the dealership replaced parts. I believe the controller was replaced.

So now this bike dying randomly issue is major problem #4.  But to troubleshoot that, I need to charge the bike. If anyone has a cheap charger onboard/offboard/anything, let me know.

-Alan

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a very common mechanical failure.

At around ever 12k miles, the wheel bearings to be popped out and replaced as this appears to be their lifetime.

Maybe it's not a defect.

That's a defect for pre-2015 models. 2015+ model bearing life appears to be a somewhat more tolerable 40,000 miles or more.

There are some defects specific to pre-2015 models; the suspension, bearings, and brakes are under-rated mainly.

[Jarrett]

I'm really hoping they have a lot of this stuff ironed out in the 2019 models.

[Moto7575]

Indeed - I had this problem and my dealer lied to me telling this was normal use of a bearing and me to pay. A good example of lousy service: had Zero informed that bearings needed to be replaced, it would have taken 2 hours and 100 $. My bike was blocked 3 months and I was overcharged by the dealer.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a very common mechanical failure.

At around ever 12k miles, the wheel bearings to be popped out and replaced as this appears to be their lifetime.

Maybe it's not a defect.

That's a defect for pre-2015 models. 2015+ model bearing life appears to be a somewhat more tolerable 40,000 miles or more.

There are some defects specific to pre-2015 models; the suspension, bearings, and brakes are under-rated mainly.