Makes And Models > Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older

2011 Zero DS - Diagnosing throttle issues

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Infant:
Hi all,

I've recently acquired an old 2011 Zero DS which was sold to me with the promise of having intermittent throttle cutouts.
I can confirm.

I'm hoping someone has one lying around in 'factory' condition and can help me confirm some of the behavior I'm seeing.

I've tied together one of those ODBII debug cables to check if the MBB has anything to say for itself:


--- Code: ---ZERO MBB> DEBUG: EepromFindNextAvailableEventLogEntrySlot Timeout


*************************************************************
*                                                           *
*            Zero Motorcycles Main Bike Board               *
*                                                           *
*                  Board Rev : 01.00                        *
*               Firmware Rev : 01.11                        *
*                      Built : Nov  9 2011 17:44:00         *
*                  Bike Type : S and DS                     *
*                 Serial Num : 05262                        *
*************************************************************
 - Reset Source: POR BOR
 - Running Self-Test.... Passed
 - Establishing CAN connection to BMS....  Passed
 - Precharging.... Passed

PASSWORD> 1.21gigawatts
*************
 - Logged in
--- End code ---

Today, after startup, it responded to throttle a few times, and now it has cut out.
There are no errors in the MBB, the log doesn't say anything of consequence.

If I check the inputs page, the kill switch is in run and the stand is up.

If I open the throttle, the out value according to the MBB is 3100 mV.


--- Code: ---ZERO MBB> inputs
inputs
****************************************
*              All Inputs              *
****************************************

  - Pack Voltage              :  56927 mV (844 ADC)
  - Precharge Voltage         :  54589 mV (841 ADC)
  - Battery Throttle En       :  49137 mV (712 ADC)
  - Contactor Enable          :  8161 mV (121 ADC)
  - Contactor Coil Voltage    :  48766 mV

  - Raw Kill Switch           :  0 mV (0 ADC)
  - Kill Switch Pos           :  Run
  - Raw Kickstand Switch      :  1333 mV (410 ADC)
  - Kickstand Switch Pos      :  Up

  - Medium Speed Switch       :  Off
  - Low Speed Switch          :  Off

  - Raw Throttle0 Position    :  688 ADC
  - Raw Throttle1 Position    :  1021 ADC
  - Normalized Thr Position   :  1023 ADC
  - Final Throttle Position   :  99%
  - Throttle Out              :  3105 mV (636 ADC)

  - Board Temp                :  22 C  (551 ADC)
  - Motor Temp1               :  18 C  (583 ADC)
  - External Temp 1           :  1021 ADC
  - External Temp 2           :  1021 ADC
  - External Temp 3           :  1021 ADC

  - Motor Speed Pin           :  0
  - Motor Speed Counter       :  0
  - Motor Speed RPM           :  0
  - Bike Speed MPH            :  0
  - Motor Current Sense 0     :  0 A  (22 ADC)
  - Motor Current Sense 1     :  -1 A  (20 ADC)
  - Motor Current VREF 0      :  2429 mV (747 ADC)
  - Motor Current VREF 1      :  1173 mV (361 ADC)
  - Motor Current Raw 0       :  2412 mV (480 ADC)

--- End code ---

If the MBB outputs a voltage signal, I would expect the AXE controller to be in a 0-5V mode instead of a 0-5k potentiometer mode.

My AXE controller starts up with one green blink (which should mean 0-5k) and then a solid green for run.

Can anyone confirm that the AXE should start up with a single green blink?

And: Can someone show me a comparable MBB log?

Infant:
Okay,

I've measured the throttle signal when the bike wasn't responding.
It measures only 3100 mV at the pin going to the Alltrax when I open the throttle.

This seems to be configurable with the scale setting in the MBB. If I load the default, the scale setting is 63%. If i turn that to 33%, the throttle outputs 1600mV or so, and 5000 mV at 100%.
So by default, this bike is only running at ~60% power. Or at least, the controller is only ever getting a 63% throttle input by default.

Today, the controller has decided to work. When I disengage the kill switch, I hear a slight "clunk" from the motor. (Not the relay, it sounds different...)
I can repeat this all day long.
Whenever it decides to not respond to throttle, I get no clunk sound. I do hear the contactor engage when I power the bike off and on, but no subsequent clunk.

In both cases, the green LED on the Alltrax is a single blink, and then a solid green.

So, I'm suspecting the Alltrax is at fault here.

When it decides to cut out again, I'll check if the controller is actually getting battery power. I'm 99% sure it should not turn green if it isn't.

I couldn't find anything about the scale setting. Has everyone just silently tuned this up to 100%?

2x0:
Can you describe how you made your obd comnection?

Your issue sounds a lot like mine but I was getting a repetitive motor clunking at initialization.  The alltrax green light routine eventually failed but was normal for a while which made it confusing.  I got a used alltrax which made the bike operable but not completely happy as it was for a zero s and mine is a zero x

Infant:
I followed https://zeromanual.com/wiki/How_to_build_a_cable_to_access_the_MBB.
It works with a 3V3 TTL serial converter, for instance https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/interface-development-kits/7676200/

Mine's baudrate is at 9600N1 instead of the 38400N1 from the manual.

2x0:
Ahh ok great.  Is the OBD male terminal optional if I just plug the TTL cable ends  directly into the correct holes on the bikes female OBD port?

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