ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard230 on March 27, 2024, 07:19:44 PM
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My local radio news station this morning reported that the Marin County (one of the wealthiest areas in California) police are complaining that parents are buying their children and teenagers "electric motorcycles" instead of bicycles. The children then go zipping around at 30 to 40 mph terrorizing neighborhoods and off-road trails. Needless to say, they don't have a license to ride them because they are not old enough. The cops are begging the county's parents to not buy these vehicles for their kids as they are dangerous and the kids don't have the skills or knowledge to ride them in traffic. (I guess they are making this request because enforcement to control this activity is too difficult for the cops and they don't want to try chasing the kids around neighborhood streets, bike paths and off-road trails.)
My neighbor bought one of these Class 3+ electric bicycles for his pre-teen boy. That thing really zips along and will pull up the hill in front of my home at 35 mph while carrying a passenger. (My Aniioki ebike chugs up the hill at only 8 mph, but it is much heavier.)
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Sounds like it will do 60mph with changes to the final drive.
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Parents be responsible? In California? HAH!!!! Good One !!!!
Even on bikes, rules of the road must be followed, as able, ie no you are not expected to go 45 mph on a pedal bike (until now it seems)
I also thought there were laws that one was supposed to ride on the roads after a certain age, NOT the sidewalks.
Let the little crotch goblins loose on the roads, this problem will sort itself out, and we get rid of a few of those useless eaters they keep complaining about.
They probably shouldn't call them motorcycles, as a motorcycle requires a tag correct, or does not have pedals? Maybe electric bike, e bike instead, since they do still have pedals if I am not mistaken?
They don't need licenses because they are not considered motorized vehicles, because of the pedals. That's typically one of the selling points they use as well for them.
Personally, I say let the kids have fun but if they are causing trouble, whoop their asses. This is a parenting issue, not so much a bike issue. Tell the kids to behave on their bikes, don't take away the bikes. Being teenagers they won't obey, however cuckifornia has cameras all over the place, it should not be too hard to figure out who they are, ticket them, and give them community service and a fine that costs roughly what the bike did.
Given the bikes are probably of high quality chineesium to begin with, in a few months it'll catch on fire and burn the house down along with it, there, bike and unruly kid problem both solved !!
Aaron
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Yeah they're getting their kids Surrons and Stark Vargs thinking they're buying Rad Power bikes and Specialized Vado.
Then kids do what kids do.
Then police do what they do.
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Yeah they're getting their kids Surrons and Stark Vargs thinking they're buying Rad Power bikes and Specialized Vado.
Then kids do what kids do.
Then police do what they do.
However, apparently the police would much rather prefer that parents take care of the problem rather than they have to snatch some kids and their expensive toy and then deal with outraged parents who have their attorney on speed-dial. My guess is that asking parents to not cater to their children's wishes for a new motorcycle with pedals is not going to have much of an impact in the wealthy parts of the county.
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Still in the end though. The attorney may get the ticket dismissed, the bike back etc etc but there are still the court costs, and the atty is charging a nice hefty fee, probably a few grand to do all this, so it is still costing them money in the long run. The police will consider that a deterrent. Besides, when rish bish does flash dial their lawyer, this way the cops can say, well they were asked / warned as part of their defense when it does go in front of the judge.
If the kids are terrorizing a walking trail, and someone shoves their walking stick into their spokes a few times, that'll stop. When they get flattened by a dump truck, and learn the laws of gross tonnage the hard way, that'll stop it too. In a few years, they'll have a license and be terrorizing the roads in a different way. Maybe a bit of deterrence early on may save a life later on as well?
Aaron
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Never ceases to amaze me how the US can somehow be at the same time draconianly authoritarian (ok let's just say fascist) with rules and regulations and petty enforcement backed with lethal outcomes and somehow liberterian to the point of letting all this sort of thing repeatedly happen in the first place! A country of dichotomy and paradox.
Cas :)
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Never ceases to amaze me how the US can somehow be at the same time draconianly authoritarian (ok let's just say fascist) with rules and regulations and petty enforcement backed with lethal outcomes and somehow liberterian to the point of letting all this sort of thing repeatedly happen in the first place! A country of dichotomy and paradox.
Cas :)
You make a good point. We certainly have a lot of laws that sound good when first enacted, but then the result seems to be that hardly anyone wants to actually go to the trouble of enforcing some of them. The cops seem to be overwhelmed by murders and robberies and that doesn't leave them time to do much else - like chasing after kids riding fast e-bikes on public roads. :(
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I think the point of the police outreach is to educate the parents on what makes a bike, moped, etc and what makes an OHV Only motorcycle.
The tickets are for operating an a motorcycle without an endorsement, not having plates, no headlights/brake lights/ turnsignals, etc.
Its the same problem in Richmond and Oakland but the difference is in Marin the kids on dirtbikes haven't learned how to do a "proper" motorcycle takeover and they stop when the police light them up. lol. I guess it's a little less offensive because it's not a bunch of loud ICE bikes and it's only groups of 3 to 5 instead 50-100 like in the bridge and tunnel cities. (Oakland, Richmond, Berkeley, SF and San Jose)
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Richard, by us they have community service officers who's job is to handle petty things like that, fender benders, dog's barking too loud etc type complaints, while freeing up the 'other' cops to handle the real crimes.
Back in the day if the kids got too rowdy you'd ask them politely to tone it down, if they got shitty then a 12 ga with rocksalt got their attention. Nowadays you got parents who let AOL raise their little crotch goblins, and they all are seeing who can make the most money by putting up the video of them being the most obnoxious on PooToob.
We really don't have these kinds of problems out in these parts of florida. Oh yah sure they'll drag race in the middle of the night on some of the less used roads, but they have spotters, stop when traffic comes thru - rarely at that time,and often some of the draggers are the cops in plain clothes, so nothing really gets out of hand. Not saying that makes it all fine and dandy now but there are various ways of handing situations.
Kids will be kids, but try to teach them, son if you are going to FA, don't end it with a FO moment, do so smartly. If you want to do wheelies and stuff DON'T be doing them in the middle of the fkn intersection during rush hour, because the cops WILL come after you if they have to, and if you make them chase you, you ARE going to get an ass beating..
Aaron
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Richard, by us they have community service officers who's job is to handle petty things like that, fender benders, dog's barking too loud etc type complaints, while freeing up the 'other' cops to handle the real crimes.
Back in the day if the kids got too rowdy you'd ask them politely to tone it down, if they got shitty then a 12 ga with rocksalt got their attention. Nowadays you got parents who let AOL raise their little crotch goblins, and they all are seeing who can make the most money by putting up the video of them being the most obnoxious on PooToob.
We really don't have these kinds of problems out in these parts of florida. Oh yah sure they'll drag race in the middle of the night on some of the less used roads, but they have spotters, stop when traffic comes thru - rarely at that time,and often some of the draggers are the cops in plain clothes, so nothing really gets out of hand. Not saying that makes it all fine and dandy now but there are various ways of handing situations.
Kids will be kids, but try to teach them, son if you are going to FA, don't end it with a FO moment, do so smartly. If you want to do wheelies and stuff DON'T be doing them in the middle of the fkn intersection during rush hour, because the cops WILL come after you if they have to, and if you make them chase you, you ARE going to get an ass beating..
Aaron
We have community service officers too. However all I have seen them do is to give out parking tickets. I believe they have very limited enforcement powers.
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Marin County, California, is back in the news again whining about kids riding electric mopeds and electric "motorcycles" too fast. One of the county supervisors said that they are dangerous vehicles and she has written a letter to the Consumer Product Safety Administration requesting that electric bicycles and motorcycles be regulated at a federal level. (Aren't they already?)
Many of the residents of Marin County are very well off and likely are willing to buy their kids whatever they ask for, especially when there is not much difference in looks between a regular bicycle and an electric one. While the parents might not know the difference, the way the cops can tell one from another is that electric mopeds have pedals and "motorcycles" do not. I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't buy stick-on pedals for your electric motorcycle on Amazon or eBay if you wanted to turn it into a moped. ::)
Anyway, I bet this isn't the last we have heard of kids tearing up the neighborhoods while riding electric bicycles in Marin County.
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Just to make a clear distinction, I think Marin County is talking about electric dirt bikes like Surrons and Talarias which are not Class 1, 2 or 3 eBikes by definition. These bikes are capable of speeds of 40 mph in stock form and up to 70 mph if modified.
Down in Orange County California in some of the affluent beach communities they already impound those vehicles on-sight if caught on public roads/streets or bike paths.
I got into motorcycling from riding with FB groups in LA that were primarily adults that started on legal-ish class 2/3 ebikes but turned into groups of Onyx's and Surrons riding through DTLA and Hollywood. Individual municipalities in LA County are starting to crack down specifically on the Surrons, but enforcement has been irregular. The few of us that migrated to the motorcycle world are anticipating more crackdowns on what was once "Loophole Culture" where the cops didn't know what to make of these bikes.
I recall that one time on a big group ride from DTLA to Pasadena, we had a mother drop off a bunch of kids (maybe 12-13 years old at most) on Surrons to ride with us. At the time we really didn't know what happening, but when they were riding with us, they started doing crazy stuff like popping wheelies on the sidewalks with pedestrians walking. After that event we banned unaccompanied minors from riding with us. It still blows me away that some rich suburban mom drops a bunch of kids off to ride illegal electric dirt bikes in the streets of LA with a bunch strange men.
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According to today's news report. Marin is focusing on three high schools where the teenagers are commuting to the schools on fast electric bicycles/motorcycles. They want all of the ebikes to be registered with the schools and inspected for safety. They are also considering some other requirements, but I can't recall what they are. Now the county supervisor who is stirring the pot says that she is talking directly with the Consumer Product Safety Commission to see what they can do to reign in the proliferation of these dangerous vehicles and make them safer.
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Why not just start by ticketing the people who are illegally using them, making them pay a fine and/or confiscating their bikes?
That'd be a good start but oh no GOD FORBID we start holding people responsible / accountable.
Don't need new legislation government pukes, just enforce the ones you already have.
Aaron
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It's true, they just need to enforce existing laws to get kids on electric dirt bikes off the road. Surron type electric dirt bikes don't legally qualify as "mopeds" because their top speed exceeds 28 mph (yeah that's the California limit). They don't qualify as Class 3 eBikes because that requires a top speed of 28 mph while on pedal assist.
Surrons are electric "motorcycles" that (mostly) don't have required elements to be DMV registerable (i.e. DOT approved turn signals, headlights, brake lights, reflectors and a VIN).
I personally know adults who got popped in Redondo Beach and got a their bike impounded, got a citation for riding an unregistered motorcycle, and another citation for riding without an M1 license.
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I want to say it's 20 or 25 mph in florida, (think ez go's out here) and you need the licenses / seat belts etc. Bikes id imagine to be the same, however they'd be much more dangerous at those speeds. At least the ez go you kind of have some protection around you, even though it's still pretty flimsy it's better than nothing.
Depending on where you live the cops may or may not hassle you, and a LOT depends on your attitude too. The only time I really seen the cops get shitty with someone was when they got an attitude, or thought they could run. (running is going to get you an ass beating too when they catch you, just as an FYI) Otherwise it's generally an, 'ill be back in 20 minutes, you boys better be gone' type thing.
Their attitudes about the E bikes is, if they are not being jackasses, leave them alone, if they are on the bike trails that's fine IF they are behaving themselves, but if they are pissing off the joggers then its time to have a talk with them. to classify as an e bike it BETTER have pedals on it, if you are on a bike trail and it don't have pedals, then you are in a world of misery when they grab you.
Works pretty good out here, it really is not a problem with teens terrorizing people. Out here in the burbs, the neighbors will whoop your ass just as fast as your dad if you act up, so ... they really don't.
Aaron
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The Marin County cops don't want to go around ticketing kids. It is just too much of a hassle, it gets their parents pissed off and the kids don't pay any attention to the cops anyway once they are out of sight. They would prefer that parents or the schools deal with the issue, or better yet let the CPSC try to force the manufacturers neuter the bikes so that they won't go faster than 10 mph (so that they can become a new hood ornament on a big pickup truck). Good luck with that. ;D
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A short news report on the radio this morning said that the very well-off town of Tiburon in Marin County, has bought E-bikes for their cops so that they can chase after kids on E-bike exceeding the speed limit on their hiking and biking trails (most of which are paved). This should be fun. ::) Who will be riding the fastest E-biks? My money is on the teenagers of very rich parents.
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Because speeding cops chasing speeding irresponsible teenagers ALWAYS fixes the problem !!
Queue the Benny Hill music, this should make some awesome pootoob videos.
Aaron