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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MichaelJohn on May 15, 2016, 03:04:14 AM
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Check it out guys. I really enjoyed this one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU
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that was funny. having ridden an '16 SR i can attest to it's frightening acceleration. my '16 fx-s will laugh at almost anything on the road, this thing just eats it and spits it back out.
laters,
laramie ;)
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Entertaining review (that and the one for the DS), but it and the comments for the video show how little most people know about these bikes...
The acceleration is nice on the SR! It takes some getting used to, especially for new-ish riders like me. When I first test-rode the '14 models, I thought the S was quick enough. I did not dare try full throttle back then. SR felt too much for me back then. This year, two years later, I test-rode the DS and felt that accelerating at full throttle was nice but no longer scary and I felt I'd want more soon. I am glad I bought the SR and not the S. I mostly ride the SR on "custom" with 70% torque and that is usually more than enough. But on good roads I lately find 70% a little less than what I'd like, so I have started to switch to "sport" more often now. "Eco" now just feels underwhelming, but I do use it for 2-up city riding where I don't want sudden jolts of power, and I imagine it will be good for wet and slippery conditions too.
Can't wait for my windscreen to arrive - without any protection, the wind is too much and the bike is not fun at speeds over 50mph for more than just a few seconds ...
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He has the chainsaw sound when accelerating hard too! :)
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just remember:
praise about extreme acceleration on any zero is a sign that the rider has not ridden any performance motorcycles before.
the zero sr has 106 ftlbs of torque and 67hp. with no gears for increasing the torque to the ground at lower speeds.
your basic performance motorcycle has over 100hp, and MORE torque to the wheel for any given speed due to gearing. Your higher end performance bike (in performance, not price) make more power everywhere, just staying in one gear like the zero. (most literbikes top out in first gear at 90mph... and will lift the front at any speed in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd without effort)
the magic to the zero is that it is not intimidating... so riders that would never ride a performance bike, ride this.
once you get used to fast bikes.. the zero is slow. FUN... but slow.
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MrDude,
Could you provide me with a dyno chart of say a "performance" motorcycle showing more torque at the wheel than an SR going 0-60? At what speed does the torque on these motorcycles peak for each gear assuming you are doing a dyno pull in say 3rd gear from 0mph?
I did look up 0-60 times for bikes under 3 seconds and got a big list, with a 2006 Suzuki GSX-R1000 at the top mind you, but upon going to different forums for the gsxr most people said 3 seconds if your lucky. Some even posted up magazines showing it was 3.1 or 3.2 ... the claimed in the list I saw was 2.35. (linked)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_motorcycles_by_acceleration
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Burton, we do have to remember that torque multiplication does play a role in the performance of any vehicle. "Torque multiplication" is a real thing, not something somebody made up, and is in fact the reason transmissions and gearboxes exist at all.
Yes, the 106 ft-lbs of torque the SR and DSR put up is a HUGE number, greater than all but a few of the most powerful bikes, but the issue is clouded by gearing considerations. It's very possible some of the more powerful bikes put more torque on the pavement than our bikes do because they're geared lower....which of course they can do because of their transmissions.
A great discussion of this issue is in http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4358.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4358.0) . The upshot of the conversation was that perhaps a better unit to discuss would be thrust, which accounts for motor torque as well as overall gear ratio to determine how many pounds of linear force the motor exerts on the pavement, which is what accelerates a bike + rider of a given weight at a certain acceleration.
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Doug beat me to it.
In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.
If you could measure the torque from the rear tire to the ground from zero to 85mph, you would see that a literbike would be in 1st gear with RPM to spare, going through huge torque multiplication, while the zero would be amp limited at the very slow RPM, and then full power as it gets up to speed... and you would also see that a 600cc sportbike puts out similar torque to the literbike for brief windows, and has to shift once.
Before you can say "literbike power" and truely be comparable to an actual 1000cc motorcycle, you have to remember that they can lift the front wheel off the ground in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear.... and that 1st gear goes into the 90s (mph), second gear goes into the low 100s, and 3rd into the 110s... so that means that at any given reasonable speed, the limit of acceleration is traction or the center of gravity of the bike (wheelie) NOT motor power.
Its unfortunate that people forget this, because it sets up disappointment for people like me. I love EVs. I know they CAN be the future.. but when you try to portray a vehicle as powerful as another, only to come up drastically short, it sets up disappointment. Its a quick bike... but its not a VERY quick bike. Its an easy bike to ride, but if you're an accomplished ICE rider already that doesnt make it quicker.... so someone that fears pinning a 600cc sportbike because anything above 8k RPM (about half way) scares them, the zero may seem faster because its not intimidating. But if you can clutch up a literbike or 500cc twostroke without fear, you feel disappointment when this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.
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Does anyone have an idea of a good way to compare 0-60 times that are routinely achievable? I know many literbikes can get up to 60 in under 3 seconds, but that involves a professional rider revving the engine to the moon and dumping the clutch - not something that would be good for the longevity of the bike. In contrast, I assume that you can do stop light drag racing on an SR all day, every day without much worry aside from eating tires.
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In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.
If you could measure the torque from the rear tire to the ground from zero to 85mph, you would see that a literbike would be in 1st gear with RPM to spare, going through huge torque multiplication, while the zero would be amp limited at the very slow RPM, and then full power as it gets up to speed... and you would also see that a 600cc sportbike puts out similar torque to the literbike for brief windows, and has to shift once.
Before you can say "literbike power" and truely be comparable to an actual 1000cc motorcycle, you have to remember that they can lift the front wheel off the ground in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear.... and that 1st gear goes into the 90s (mph), second gear goes into the low 100s, and 3rd into the 110s... so that means that at any given reasonable speed, the limit of acceleration is traction or the center of gravity of the bike (wheelie) NOT motor power.
Its unfortunate that people forget this, because it sets up disappointment for people like me. I love EVs. I know they CAN be the future.. but when you try to portray a vehicle as powerful as another, only to come up drastically short, it sets up disappointment. Its a quick bike... but its not a VERY quick bike. Its an easy bike to ride, but if you're an accomplished ICE rider already that doesnt make it quicker.... so someone that fears pinning a 600cc sportbike because anything above 8k RPM (about half way) scares them, the zero may seem faster because its not intimidating. But if you can clutch up a literbike or 500cc twostroke without fear, you feel disappointment when this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.
According to Zero's website the Zero SR makes 321 ft-lbs at the wheel...EV's get torque multiplication too. Torque isn't the problem it's the 6K RPM limit....liter bikes go to like 14K RPM.
A Zero SR can beat a 600cc up to the Zero's speed limit. A Zero SR can beat a liter bike off the line but a skilled rider can over take the Zero quickly. The only reason a Zero SR will disappoint ANYONE is if they judge it based on the ability to lift the front wheel and ability to go over 105 mph (i.e. not street legal speeds). Emphasis on SKILL of the ICE rider...the end of this video makes the point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R02BcaMw8oo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R02BcaMw8oo)
A skilled rider on a 600cc track bike might be able to beat a Zero SR....but it could be anyone riding the Zero, not much skill required.
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I feel a little bit obligated to respond to MrDude's post.
In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.
Yeah, it matters at least a little. Because the Zero motor puts out 106 ft-lbs of raw torque, they're able to achieve pretty damn impressive acceleration with only a single gear, which provides 100+ mph top speed. The single gear, combined with the fact that electric motors are perfectly happy at 0 rpm, means you don't have to have a clutch, either. All told, this allows for lower weight, less complexity, lower cost, and reduced maintenance. These are not insignificant factors. So....yeah, the "fixed gear" crowd wins this argument, in my opinion, provided you can pull it off. The Zero does.
But I'm not going to try to dispel MrDude's disappointment. It's real. He saw a number, recognized it as more important than horsepower, and was pretty much fooled by the torque multiplication factor. But that's not the only reason I love my bike. I love my bike because it works for me. It gets me to work and back with energy to spare, and DAMN I have fun doing so.
I'd just point out what these bikes were created for. Eco-friendliness, utility, low overall operating cost, and fun, which includes rider responsiveness, torque and horsepower. You need to decide which bikes satisfies you the most.
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I feel a little bit obligated to respond to MrDude's post.
In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.
Yeah, it matters at least a little. Because the Zero motor puts out 106 ft-lbs of raw torque, they're able to achieve pretty damn impressive acceleration with only a single gear, which provides 100+ mph top speed. The single gear, combined with the fact that electric motors are perfectly happy at 0 rpm, means you don't have to have a clutch, either. All told, this allows for lower weight, less complexity, lower cost, and reduced maintenance. These are not insignificant factors. So....yeah, the "fixed gear" crowd wins this argument, in my opinion, provided you can pull it off. The Zero does.
But I'm not going to try to dispel MrDude's disappointment. It's real. He saw a number, recognized it as more important than horsepower, and was pretty much fooled by the torque multiplication factor. But that's not the only reason I love my bike. I love my bike because it works for me. It gets me to work and back with energy to spare, and DAMN I have fun doing so.
I'd just point out what these bikes were created for. Eco-friendliness, utility, low overall operating cost, and fun, which includes rider responsiveness, torque and horsepower. You need to decide which bikes satisfies you the most.
The fixed gear myth gets dispelled when you look at the gearing and rpm limits of a literbike.
It's geared from zero mph to over the limit of the zeroshop max speed.... and while it make no torque at zero rpm, you pull away at 1200rpm (Idle) or higher... with the clutch at any given time I have access to over 100% of the motors max torque or power. (Flywheel inertia makes it over 100 for shock loading)
Saying that at any speed the literbikend has less power, is incorrect.
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To regear a SR to match a literbike, you would be limited to 40mph max speed.
Remember, the have a 14k rpm redline. The zero has 6k (or 6.5, I forget)
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Why does Mr. Dude need to continually point out the SR isn't a quick bike compared to really fast ICE bikes? I have ridden some powerful bikes and I find that the midrange acceleration on the SR is still quite impressive. About a month ago I test rode a BMW S1000XR. The engine on that bike is a detuned version of the S1000RR which is a 200 HP world beater. The XR has only 160 HP but it has more torque so it's still very, very quick. It's true that the SR can't compete above 75 or so but say 30-75 (and that's where I'm doing almost all of my hard accelerating) the XR didn't feel any quicker. I have a friend who has a 180+ HP R1 and he is the most experienced motorcyclist that I know. He has a garage full of bikes, many of which have more than 100,000 miles on them and he is simply the most motorcycle savvy person that I have ever met (and he used to own a motorcycle shop too). He has ridden my SR and he thinks that it is competitive in mid range acceleration with his R1. In fact, when he first got off it, he thought it might be a little quicker than his R1 but I think that he was just smitten by the fact that it was an electric.
Lay off the SR, if it's not powerful for you go ride your ICE bike. And stop telling us that it only feels quick to inexperienced riders, that is simply not the case.
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Flexy showed his true colours when he said
this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.
The fella is just a troll, and statements like this just serve to invalidate the rest of his argument.
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Great keyboard racing in this thread 8)
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Great keyboard racing in this thread 8)
Unlike my tyres, there is no dust on any part of my keyboard... ;) :p
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ah shucks! does this mean i don't get to giggle like a schoolgirl due to the acceleration when riding my bike anymore? darnit, i hate it when that happens....
hehehehehehe!!!!!
laters,
laramie ;)
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A great discussion of this issue is in http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4358.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4358.0) . The upshot of the conversation was that perhaps a better unit to discuss would be thrust, which accounts for motor torque as well as overall gear ratio to determine how many pounds of linear force the motor exerts on the pavement, which is what accelerates a bike + rider of a given weight at a certain acceleration.
Thanks Doug, it seems while I was "away" from EMF I missed this great discussion.
How would you measure "thrust" from 0-60? Are we measuring Gforces over time till 60mph? simple 0-60mph in seconds?
I know my first WOT really impressed me coming from a smaller ICE bike. But after a while I got so use to it I question if I am accelerating as hard as I use to till I switch down to ECO mode (which I set up to be 50% of everything including my motor regen) and then I am like ... yeah I was in sport mode (where I have everything set to 100% with a custom level of higher regen)
So I can see where one would say "meh ... it is just like or similar to performance bikes." But if we are making a statement like this I like to see numbers and graphs to back things up. For me torque at wheel seemed important to know but Dyno's are not geared to handle a 0 rpm scenario, and then the other being actual in practice 0-60 times (not running on gas fumes, with warm tires, and an anorexic short rider).
If we were to get really technical i would imagine we would want a machine to do all the accelerating / shifting to show the base performance of a bike before adding a rider / weather / road conditions / etc.
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Why does Mr. Dude need to continually point out the SR isn't a quick bike compared to really fast ICE bikes?
Because it is continuously compared to really fast ICE bikes and declared equal.
I never said I didn't like the bike... but it doesn't meet those claims.
Flexy showed his true colours when he said
this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.
The fella is just a troll, and statements like this just serve to invalidate the rest of his argument.
They make it out like its a monster, when you can just twist and go like a scooter. Its not a monster. You can just twist the throttle and go. Its not going to wheelie up on you. Its not going to break the rear wheel loose (assuming normal dry asphalt conditions of course)
You literally can pin the throttle like a moped. Its faster than a moped, but the bike isnt literbike fast either.
And I wouldn't say I was a troll... I just don't like hyperbolic bullshit that sets up unrealistic expectations.
edit:
I recall lastnight hearing the guy say the same thing, so I skipped around to the end of the video.. this should be at about the right time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU&feature=youtu.be&t=1010 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU&feature=youtu.be&t=1010)
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I think the SR is a monster if you don't treat it with respect. I've never been thrown off anything as quickly as when I twisted the throttle a little too quickly in the wet on one last summer. Most bikes will give you a bit more warning and time to react, but with all that torque coming instantly the rear spins up quicker than a politician on poppers.
Most modern big bikes have traction control whereas the SR still relies on skill and common sense. I was lacking in both departments that day...
We all know that the SR doesn't have many horses, but the way it delivers that torque means an average rider can put a lot of the bikes out there to shame away from the lights. I think it deserves some respect for that. After all, jet fighters don't have gears or a clutch and they're pretty beastly.
I think what's most impressive is that the SR can do what it does without making a song and a dance about it. No screaming engines (or turbines), no fancy juggling of a clutch and trying to keep the front wheel from pointing to the sky.
I've also found that once I get used to a bike I'll find myself pinning the throttle and feeling it could go quicker. I think the overall enjoyment of riding a bike is the most important thing. Despite coming from a VFR 1200, I find my DS a real joy to ride. That's with less than a third of the horsepower.
Comparing an SR to a scooter is unfair. FX, DS, S or SR: They are all proper motorcycles and handle as such. They don't need gears because electric motors make them redundant.
If the SR is so capable in it's current modest package, just imagine what's around the corner. It's game over for all but the most exotic ICE bikes in just a few more years. :)
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Why does Mr. Dude need to continually point out the SR isn't a quick bike compared to really fast ICE bikes?
Because it is continuously compared to really fast ICE bikes and declared equal.
I never said I didn't like the bike... but it doesn't meet those claims.
Flexy showed his true colours when he said
this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.
The fella is just a troll, and statements like this just serve to invalidate the rest of his argument.
They make it out like its a monster, when you can just twist and go like a scooter. Its not a monster. You can just twist the throttle and go. Its not going to wheelie up on you. Its not going to break the rear wheel loose (assuming normal dry asphalt conditions of course)
You literally can pin the throttle like a moped. Its faster than a moped, but the bike isnt literbike fast either.
And I wouldn't say I was a troll... I just don't like hyperbolic bullshit that sets up unrealistic expectations.
edit:
I recall lastnight hearing the guy say the same thing, so I skipped around to the end of the video.. this should be at about the right time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU&feature=youtu.be&t=1010 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU&feature=youtu.be&t=1010)
Round my parts calling a motorbike a scooter is *actual* fighting talk, the sort of thing that could start a punch up...
So yeah, you came across as being deliberately insulting, even if you did'nt mean too.
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I know in the six months I've had my SR, I haven't taken my Interceptor out of the garage once... LOVE the SR, and the off-the-line acceleration is wonderful, as is the amount of power at my normal highway speeds (75-85mph usually).
And I put it on "sport" about a week in, and haven't switched since. :)
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There is a huge advantage to launching a Zero without a clutch and a single speed means that acceleration never drops to zero during a shift change.
That alone is good for a lot of advantage over a motorcycle with similar power to weight ratio.
A transmission is really just crutch for a ICE with poor practical engine speed range.
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There is a huge advantage to launching a Zero without a clutch and a single speed means that acceleration never drops to zero during a shift change.
That alone is good for a lot of advantage over a motorcycle with similar power to weight ratio.
A transmission is really just crutch for a ICE with poor practical engine speed range.
I would agree with you, if it wasnt for the fact that every literbike sold today will go faster than a zero without shifting... They all top out well into the 90mph range.
On top of that, acceleration never drops to zero on any motorcycle, as acceleration may lessen while slowly shifting, but it would be very very slow to stop all forward acceleration.
lastly... you dont use the clutch when accelerating and shifting on a modern sportbike. The quickshifter will cut spark for a few milliseconds... this is just long enough for the gear lash to come loose, and let the dogs engage the next gear. You dont touch the clutch, and you dont let off the throttle.
This is one of those perception != reality things... You're comparing something inaccurately, and incorrectly and coming to a poor assumption.
I get annoyed by them in the same way you might be annoyed by some non-EV rider making odd assumptions about charging and range.
To expand on the a charging analogy, when charging the limit isnt the bike, its the wall followed by the charger.
The limit of riding a performance motorcycle shouldn't be the motorcycle, its the rider. Yes you could spin up the rear, chop throttle and highside, but you could also do that with a 250. Ive seen it happen.
My short highside story:
In the 250,000+ miles I have ridden on the street, I have highsided once from that exact same thing. Slick oil from a recently repaved road, rain, not paying attention, and whoop. wheel spins up, steps out, and while Im trying to ride it out, I just plain run out of steering.. it hit the lock and over I was tossed.
sucked. sucked worse that it was infront of my work no less. sucked even worse that the hottest cop I have ever seen (seriously, model material) was the one who came to see if I was ok. Sucked even more that I cracked a cover, and had to get a ride home.. sucked even more that it was my daily driver, so I was forced to use other transport until it was repaired...
...but even after all that sucking, not once for a second did I blame the bike, lack of traction control, or desire less power. That was around 28,000 mile mark, and that bike (an 08, CBR1000RR) went on for another 70,000+ miles without any crashy incidents before I sold it.
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Round my parts calling a motorbike a scooter is *actual* fighting talk, the sort of thing that could start a punch up...
So yeah, you came across as being deliberately insulting, even if you did'nt mean too.
yeah, I forget that in general motorcycling groups, scooters are looked down upon.
I worked for awhile in a custom vespa shop.. when I think scooters, I dont think of the cheap chinese DUI ride.. I think modded 2-stroke vespas and maxi-scooters and silverwings with mods. The Silverwing was what I was thinking of when I said "twist and go scooter".. comparing the SR to a 50cc moped would be silly.
Interestingly enough, Vespas use a clutch/gearshift handlebar, and it makes fast modded ones exceptionally hard to launch and shift. lol.
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So many misunderstandings via the interweb! We all say stuff that goes wrong. Well, I do at least! ;-)
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Electric Motorcycles have only a decade of factory evolution and still developing technology and software.
Motorcycles have had over a century of development.
This is the birth of EV and the dying of ICE.
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There is a huge advantage to launching a Zero without a clutch and a single speed means that acceleration never drops to zero during a shift change.
That alone is good for a lot of advantage over a motorcycle with similar power to weight ratio.
A transmission is really just crutch for a ICE with poor practical engine speed range.
I would agree with you, if it wasnt for the fact that every literbike sold today will go faster than a zero without shifting... They all top out well into the 90mph range.
On top of that, acceleration never drops to zero on any motorcycle, as acceleration may lessen while slowly shifting, but it would be very very slow to stop all forward acceleration.
lastly... you dont use the clutch when accelerating and shifting on a modern sportbike. The quickshifter will cut spark for a few milliseconds... this is just long enough for the gear lash to come loose, and let the dogs engage the next gear. You dont touch the clutch, and you dont let off the throttle.
This is one of those perception != reality things... You're comparing something inaccurately, and incorrectly and coming to a poor assumption.
I get annoyed by them in the same way you might be annoyed by some non-EV rider making odd assumptions about charging and range.
To expand on the a charging analogy, when charging the limit isnt the bike, its the wall followed by the charger.
The limit of riding a performance motorcycle shouldn't be the motorcycle, its the rider. Yes you could spin up the rear, chop throttle and highside, but you could also do that with a 250. Ive seen it happen.
My short highside story:
In the 250,000+ miles I have ridden on the street, I have highsided once from that exact same thing. Slick oil from a recently repaved road, rain, not paying attention, and whoop. wheel spins up, steps out, and while Im trying to ride it out, I just plain run out of steering.. it hit the lock and over I was tossed.
sucked. sucked worse that it was infront of my work no less. sucked even worse that the hottest cop I have ever seen (seriously, model material) was the one who came to see if I was ok. Sucked even more that I cracked a cover, and had to get a ride home.. sucked even more that it was my daily driver, so I was forced to use other transport until it was repaired...
...but even after all that sucking, not once for a second did I blame the bike, lack of traction control, or desire less power. That was around 28,000 mile mark, and that bike (an 08, CBR1000RR) went on for another 70,000+ miles without any crashy incidents before I sold it.
The Zero SR does not have the power to weight ratio of a liter bike and you are confusing speed and acceleration.
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The Zero SR does not have the power to weight ratio of a liter bike and you are confusing speed and acceleration.
You're correct on the first half of that.
Nope on the second half. You're just missing my points.
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Ok I'll chime in here. Mr Dude I've read most if not all your posts and I highly respect your riding time and skill as well as your overall knowledge of the workings of motorcycles in general and science of speed. I'm new to motorcycles and all my road miles have been on my Zero DS. I agree with you that nothing compares to a liter plus sport bike when it comes to all aspects of speed and performance. If you want to blow past everything on the road that's the easiest and cheapest way to get it done. I love my Zero and I believe it does what most people want to do speed wise, and what what everyone should do law wise. The only other thing that I see time and time again is like Eolas said he leaves the Ice bike at home because "overall" the Zero is a better ride and experience. Maybe they will get one fast enough to compete in a few years or it may take longer. I think you'd enjoy the bike but your logical mind won't accept the trade offs which is fine. I don't think a different opinion is "trolling" it's good to challenge all ideas that's what makes them stronger or dead.
Where do I leave my two pennies?
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Look....the SR isn't designed as a high-performance sportbike. It's supposed to be a general-purpose bike that serves as many riders as possible. Zero isn't big enough to offer niche machines like that.
If you want super high performance in an electric, that's available. Look up the Lightning LS-218. Yes, it's expensive. But it is, as far as I'm aware, the quickest and fastest sportbike you can buy, and it happens to be electric.
So can we stop trying to compare a general-purpose bike to an all-out performance bike? They're apples and oranges, because that's how they're designed.
In my mind, the remarkable thing about the Zero is how well it fulfills its role as a highly functional general-purpose motorcycle, and gives an astonishing amount of fun at the same time, in large part based on its instantaneous throttle response and an immense amount of torque. Compared to other general-purpose bikes, that is.
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So can we stop trying to compare a general-purpose bike to an all-out performance bike?
That's all I'm asking for too! :)
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I was caught out in the same way as MrDude. There is an awful lot of hyperbole about the mind melting acceleration of the SR. So i expected a lot and was disappointed when I got mine. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love riding my SR and wouldn't go back to an ICE but comparing the acceleration to a litre bike is ridiculous and should be discouraged because it gives false expectations. The first time I opened up the SR it was great fun and i did it over and over. The first time i really opened up a ZX-6R I had to slow down for the next 10 minutes until I stopped shaking from the adrenaline. It's a different world.
Apparently a Lightning really does accelerate like a litre bike though. EV's are already at and beyond ICE performance if you can afford it.
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I think a lot of the "hyperbole", if there really is any, is a reaction to the common conception the EV world is fighting. Many people, if not most, still think EVs are toys. Tesla has gone a long way toward proving electric cars don't have to be glorified golf carts, but I think people still think "cheap Chinese scooter" when you mention electric motorcycles to them. Including most of us until we learned differently.
Again, for not being all-out sportbikes, it really is surprising how much performance these bikes give you. A really surprising amount, enough to put them way toward the top of the list for general-purpose bikes. The almost mind-reading responsiveness of the bikes only enhances the feeling.
So yeah, we probably tend to exaggerate a bit out of our own surprise and in order to stress that these are NOT cheap scooters. But nobody should be "caught out" by that sort of thing. Didn't you test ride the bikes before you bought them? If you didn't know exactly what you were getting before you made a purchase this major, you just didn't do your homework, and that's on you.
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I think a lot of the "hyperbole", if there really is any, is a reaction to the common conception the EV world is fighting. Many people, if not most, still think EVs are toys. Tesla has gone a long way toward proving electric cars don't have to be glorified golf carts, but I think people still think "cheap Chinese scooter" when you mention electric motorcycles to them. Including most of us until we learned differently.
Again, for not being all-out sportbikes, it really is surprising how much performance these bikes give you. A really surprising amount, enough to put them way toward the top of the list for general-purpose bikes. The almost mind-reading responsiveness of the bikes only enhances the feeling.
So yeah, we probably tend to exaggerate a bit out of our own surprise and in order to stress that these are NOT cheap scooters. But nobody should be "caught out" by that sort of thing. Didn't you test ride the bikes before you bought them? If you didn't know exactly what you were getting before you made a purchase this major, you just didn't do your homework, and that's on you.
So just like Honda forums think Hondas are the best, Yamaha forums think Yamaha is the best, and Harley forums think merchandising is the best, You think EVs are the best.... to the point you would mislead and lie about it?
You seem to forget that a huge portion of zeros customer base does not have a dealership within 100 miles of them. They cant easily go testride one... They're trusting what supposedly reputable sources online are saying.
Most people dont have any opinions of electric bikes. They are not even on their radar... However a bunch of people raving over the SRs acceleration will disappoint anyone looking for a motorcycle with high acceleration. You are setting up disappointment.
Now, if you mention it rips like a SV650 or whatever similar bike you like... thats fair. But going overboard just because you like EVs is not an excuse.
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I was talking to a chap last night who owns a street triple. He's going to buy a ZZR 1400 next week. I asked him if he'd test ridden the ZZR and he said no. Then I asked if he was going to do a test ride and he said no. Apparently he's been reading up about the ZZR; reviews, forums and so on. He's read enough to satisfy himself that he doesn't need a test ride. There are a lot more opportunities to test ride a ZZR than a Zero around here. On this occasion, I didn't try and persuade him to take a test ride because I don't think he'll be disappointed.
It's a shame that there are at least a couple of people out there that have been disappointed a little with their SR.
I did have an opportunity to test ride a few different Zero's before I finally managed to buy one. I traded in a VFR 1200FD for mine. That was a genuinely fast bike and yet I'm very happy with my DS. I enjoyed pinning the throttle on the VFR and doing silly speeds when I felt it was safe for me and other road users. It would have been nice to keep the bike, but I couldn't. I can honestly say I'm not missing it though.
I think it has to be the overall experience that makes people so happy with their Zeros. We know they aren't as quick as sports bikes, but the sensation of speed is still very impressive. I'm sure that's partly due to the upright riding style. I knew I was accelerating very quickly on my VFR but I didn't feel it as much in my body due to being more crouched.
I also feel that the acceleration is more useable and accessible on my DS. You don't have to think about what gear you're in and prepare for it, it's just there.
The effortless way a Zero takes off is a lot of fun, for me at least. It feels great. To do the same on an ICE bike requires a good deal more effort and noise.
I don't think anyone has intentionally tried to overstate the performance of their Zeros. A lot of it is down to the perception of a rider. It feels quick, so it must be.
I'm very happy with the way my DS handles. I know that it can't possibly handle as well as other bikes I've ridden, but I love the way the bike feels on the road. Similar to the speed.
For me, the word that does the best job of summing it all up is fun. That's the overall experience. If you own an SR or DSR or FXS or FX, then there's that bit more fun over a DS or S. I have a DS and I'm not disappointed.
On one hand owners' perceptions seem to have given others the wrong perception and there lies the rub.
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I also feel that the acceleration is more useable and accessible on my DS. You don't have to think about what gear you're in and prepare for it, it's just there.
Amen. That's where the "fun" quotient really rises to the fore. I had a lot of fun riding my wife's Vespa 250 for the same reason (resulting in a machine that was just as fast as my ZZR 250, but more fun to ride).
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https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1391932/
The neat thing about electric motors is they provide all their torque at low rpm then the torque falls off when you reach the battery's current limit. This is the opposite of ICE and provides you with a torque when you need it and most often use it on the street type experience.
BeVs are a long way from getting near the energy density of gas. Heck, you waste 80% of the gas and yet ICE are still bad fast. I'm finding I prefer BeV fun over ICE bad fast on the street for both bike and car (M5 gone for a Tesla and S1000RR replaced by an SR).
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Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus. And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)
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Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus. And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)
THAT would be on-par with a regular literbike. :)
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Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus. And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)
I wonder why Victory is racing when its production Empulse TT, has less power, heavier and less range for $6000 more than a Zero SR. Are they planing on a upgrade?
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Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus. And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)
I wonder why Victory is racing when its production Empulse TT, has less power, heavier and less range for $6000 more than a Zero SR. Are they planing on a upgrade?
I am not even sure that Victory is still selling the Victory (Empulse) TT. My guess is that they will eventually come out with their own EV. I figure that the Pikes Peak run is strictly a PR move to test public reaction to a high-performance electric motorcycle. Could it be that they are waiting for H-D to make a move first? ???
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Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus. And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)
I wonder why Victory is racing when its production Empulse TT, has less power, heavier and less range for $6000 more than a Zero SR. Are they planing on a upgrade?
2016 SR is $16000 now, though Zero has been running various promotions that cut $1000 off for the last few months. The 10% federal tax credit applies both to the Victory and to the Zero, making the effective prices $13.4k and $18k, excluding taxes and delivery.
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Speaking of the H-D EV plans, there is this report and speculation:
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/13/production-harley-davidson-electric-motorcycle-5-years-report/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/13/production-harley-davidson-electric-motorcycle-5-years-report/)