ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MrDude_1 on February 10, 2016, 12:41:28 AM
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http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/ride-review-the-zero-fxs-and-dsr-prove-electric-motorc-1757942929 (http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/ride-review-the-zero-fxs-and-dsr-prove-electric-motorc-1757942929)
Sean finally posted up his review of the zero.. its fairly honest. Its nice to read one from the perspective of someone that rides alot of motorcycles, rather then the perspective of a regular person who thinks bikes are 'neat'.
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I think the review was pretty fair. He mentioned a lot of the same concerns I had with them.
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The review is definitely honest and fair; it just is disappointing how far removed the cultural perspective is from "utility" as he points out early in the article. The motorcycle market is artificial in this sense, shaped primarily by perceptions/image.
I'm glad that Zero's battery engineer has a metaphorical (if not literal) twinkle in his eye. Everything else will sort itself out in time around battery technology.
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The review is definitely honest and fair; it just is disappointing how far removed the cultural perspective is from "utility" as he points out early in the article. The motorcycle market is artificial in this sense, shaped primarily by perceptions/image.
I'm glad that Zero's battery engineer has a metaphorical (if not literal) twinkle in his eye. Everything else will sort itself out in time around battery technology.
If anything, Lukes "twinkle" was probably just one step short of laughing like a lunitic... hes constantly playing with the latest stuff and is very vocal about the future.
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Honestly, I really didn't care for his review; it doesn't seem "honest" to me at all. It seems like he's trying desperately to hold onto reasons for skepticism.
Early on, he says "The only place where they struggle performance-wise is weight, but the bulk of that comes from the battery." But several times later in the review, he does refer to the light weight of the bikes, and we know they ARE lightweights for their niches. My SR weighs 407 pounds stock, which is quite light for a sportbike.
And what the hell does "With only one gear, they feel like a two-stroke stuck in fourth. They take a bit to spin up and then come on strong, and then free-wheel once you let off the throttle." mean? Was he or was he not riding a Zero? There is no "spin-up" time on a Zero! Throttle response is their biggest advantage! And if you don't like it "free-wheeling", turn up the regen! That's what the option is there for!
He writes "At 293 pounds and with 44 horsepower and 70 pound-feet of torque, it makes the 321 pound, 32 horsepower, 24 pound-feet of torque Suzuki DR-Z look like it belongs in the D league. At least on paper." Then goes on to offer NOTHING that refutes ANY of those advantages. What's his point, assuming he has one? It's as if by merely using a negative tone in his writing he's proving the Zero is a lousy machine.
"Sure, when I was in the mid-range of the single gear, there were gobs of power and I had a blast - when I rode it like a sportbike." So when he doesn't ride it like a sportbike, what's he expecting from it? It's supposed to feel like a sportbike when he's not riding it that way?
"Even little techniques we use as riders subconsciously have to be adapted." Yes, because another word for "techniques" is "band-aids". You've developed habits over decades of riding ICE bikes to try to adapt to their shortcomings. You don't have to do that on a bike with instantaneous throttle response.
"By the end of the day, I kept noticing that I’d learned an entirely new throttle application technique. On these electric bikes, I never really found myself at constant throttle, because the only friction presented on the bike is that between the tires and the road (and gravity). Instead, I just blipped the throttle whenever I needed to go a little faster, and the bike would carry the speed." I'm not even sure what he's trying to say here, though again, the use of a vaguely negative tone tries to make the Ebike sound bad. Gravity is NOT a form of friction, and by far the biggest drag on this or any bike is wind resistance, which is essentially identical between an ICE and an Ebike. Is he again blaming the bike because he wants more regen but isn't smart enough to set it up the way he wants it?
Finally, my biggest beef is when he claims that "People who aren’t attracted to motorcycling are often attracted to electric bikes. On the flip side, traditional motorcyclists tend to be left wanting when they experience riding one." I've been riding since my 12th birthday, 41 years ago now. I find NOTHING wanting with my SR -- quite the opposite, in fact. If he wants to be a curmudgeon and a naysayer, he's got that right....but he DOESN'T get to speak for me.
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Thanks, Doug, for justifiably poking holes at the review. :) I think that gets at my "perspective" annoyance.
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Honestly, I really didn't care for his review; it doesn't seem "honest" to me at all. It seems like he's trying desperately to hold onto reasons for skepticism.
I come from a similar background as him, so I'll try to translate/explain.
Early on, he says "The only place where they struggle performance-wise is weight, but the bulk of that comes from the battery." But several times later in the review, he does refer to the light weight of the bikes, and we know they ARE lightweights for their niches. My SR weighs 407 pounds stock, which is quite light for a sportbike.
1st off, all the 600cc sportbikes claim weights far below 400lbs. With a full tank and everything, people have weighed them close to 400. full wet weight literbikes are 440lbs.
The SR, while fun.. its not a sportbike. Its more like a 600cc standard. I would compare it to my HawkGT... thats a 650cc Vtwin. Its almost a sportbike, but its not a sportbike. You can race it, but its never ideal. I love it, but it has its limits. I dont know the weight of my hawk off the top of my head, but its a 1980s motorcycle design, and I can pick it up off the ground. I would guess 280lb range.. give or take 20lbs.
And what the hell does "With only one gear, they feel like a two-stroke stuck in fourth. They take a bit to spin up and then come on strong, and then free-wheel once you let off the throttle." mean? Was he or was he not riding a Zero? There is no "spin-up" time on a Zero! Throttle response is their biggest advantage! And if you don't like it "free-wheeling", turn up the regen! That's what the option is there for!
The zero is amp limited... so you do NOT get full power until RPM rises. Thats a fact. as the RPM rises, the amount of power available rises. until it hits on full.. it DOES feel exactly like a 2 stroke... also when you close the throttle, as you know, it coasts. Sure he could change it, but how? someone has to tell him, he has to download the app, sync up his phone then play with it. easy when you own it. Harder when you're on a press trip with 50 other guys.
There is only one gear on the zero...so from the perspective of someone that is used to the center of gravity as the limit on acceleration, holding WOT and waiting while it spins up... is accurate. It is exactly like an open class 2stroke stuck in a gear between 2nd and 3rd.. its not slow, but it could be much faster.
He writes "At 293 pounds and with 44 horsepower and 70 pound-feet of torque, it makes the 321 pound, 32 horsepower, 24 pound-feet of torque Suzuki DR-Z look like it belongs in the D league. At least on paper." Then goes on to offer NOTHING that refutes ANY of those advantages. What's his point, assuming he has one? It's as if by merely using a negative tone in his writing he's proving the Zero is a lousy machine.
uhh, the DRZ doesnt have 24 pound feet of torque.. it has 24 pound feet of torque through a transmission, giving it MUCH higher acceleration than a FXS. It can blip the throttle and lift the front, because you downshift... and then it rains.. so you upshift and its now smooth and easy to cruise.
The two bikes going around the track, are about equal... even though the FXS has a power advantage, its so inefficient at putting it to the ground to go fast, that it doesnt feel fast.
Dont get me wrong, I love the bike... but when your only input is the throttle... you're limited on what you can do.
"Sure, when I was in the mid-range of the single gear, there were gobs of power and I had a blast - when I rode it like a sportbike." So when he doesn't ride it like a sportbike, what's he expecting from it? It's supposed to feel like a sportbike when he's not riding it that way?
He only had a blast when he rode it like a sportbike.. not a supermoto. its a "supermoto" that can not easily wheelie. It cant jump either (unless you swap the belt for a chain).
You're just reading the sentence wrong.
"Even little techniques we use as riders subconsciously have to be adapted." Yes, because another word for "techniques" is "band-aids". You've developed habits over decades of riding ICE bikes to try to adapt to their shortcomings. You don't have to do that on a bike with instantaneous throttle response.
No. Not band aids. Not habits. He blipped the throttle to lift the front, and... the front didnt lift. Because the whole bike is build with one huge compromise that knocks it out of ever being a performance machine.... it only has one power requesting input. the throttle.
without the ability, mechanically or electronically, to widen the power request input... the bikes output will always be a compromise between easy riding, and hard hitting power.
You think you have instantaneous throttle response? Zeros throttle is soggy compared to a 2stroke supermoto or sportbike. Everything seems slow compared to my CR500s throttle. Even my best 150A Field Oriented Controller on a 89v brushless ebike cant compare... lol. (it also has faster throttle response than a zero and its electric)
"By the end of the day, I kept noticing that I’d learned an entirely new throttle application technique. On these electric bikes, I never really found myself at constant throttle, because the only friction presented on the bike is that between the tires and the road (and gravity). Instead, I just blipped the throttle whenever I needed to go a little faster, and the bike would carry the speed." I'm not even sure what he's trying to say here, though again, the use of a vaguely negative tone tries to make the Ebike sound bad. Gravity is NOT a form of friction, and by far the biggest drag on this or any bike is wind resistance, which is essentially identical between an ICE and an Ebike. Is he again blaming the bike because he wants more regen but isn't smart enough to set it up the way he wants it?
I'll give you that he needs more regen to be happy... but why wasnt it setup with ICE comparable regen already? Thats a question we should be asking zero.
The press people should have atleast been informed about the regen setup.
Finally, my biggest beef is when he claims that "People who aren’t attracted to motorcycling are often attracted to electric bikes. On the flip side, traditional motorcyclists tend to be left wanting when they experience riding one." I've been riding since my 12th birthday, 41 years ago now. I find NOTHING wanting with my SR -- quite the opposite, in fact. If he wants to be a curmudgeon and a naysayer, he's got that right....but he DOESN'T get to speak for me.
oh, hes 100% correct on this.
Electric motorcycles get a ton of people that just want to go from point A to point B. the same people that also speak softly and dont eat beef.
Motorcyclists in the USA, other then cruiser riders, tend to go after performance in one way or another... something that Zero can provide up to a point. The problem occurs when they try to exceed that point.
They are on the cusp of exceeding it with the FXS.. some people will expect a real supermoto, and it is not one.
They would be committing brand suicide if they released any of their bikes, including the SR, as a fully faired sportbike at the moment. The power is not there for that. The control is not there for that... they would just be known as that fast looking bike that cant even wheelie, is slower than even a entry level 600, and weighs as much as a literbike.
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+1 for everything Doug said. I wasn't impressed.
At the very least, the author needs to spend a lot more time on electric bikes. It takes months to get used to a bike, especially one with a completely different drivetrain. To go for a couple of quick rides and think you've earnt the right to make big judgements and sweeping statements is a bit delusional, IMHO.
What I'm not seeing on this forum is a flood of people saying how they've owned a Zero and decided to go back to ICE bikes. Quite the opposite really.
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Looks like I overlapped with Mr Dude. Some good points there too, to be fair. I just think it's a shame that the article will probably put some people off at least just going for a test ride.
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+1 for everything Doug said. I wasn't impressed.
At the very least, the author needs to spend a lot more time on electric bikes. It takes months to get used to a bike, especially one with a completely different drivetrain. To go for a couple of quick rides and think you've earnt the right to make big judgements and sweeping statements is a bit delusional, IMHO.
If you read the comments below the article, you can see hes already arranging a ride with someone who has a modded bike.
Theres no bike hate from Sean. He will ride the hell out of anything you put him on, tell you his thoughts.. and is open to revising them the next time he swings a leg over the bike.
What I'm not seeing on this forum is a flood of people saying how they've owned a Zero and decided to go back to ICE bikes. Quite the opposite really.
im half joking by pointing this out but.... electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5475
( should note this is a joke.. the thread is about someone back on an ICE bike while theirs is in the shop.. but its a post about how hes back on ICE)
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Haha, I walked into that one!
All points taken, thanks.
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I won’t claim to be an electric motorcycle expert. I have ridden over 1,000,000 miles on normal motorcycles. I’ve been eagerly following Zero over the years and I am about ready to make the plunge. I’ll likely go for the FXS. I recently demo’d a bunch of their bikes and have a lot of the same complaints that person who wrote the article did and a few more.
I am too busy to write much but what Mr Dude says is pretty much right on. One of the biggest issues I have is the lack of immediacy to the throttle response. I am so used to being able to crack the throttle and loft the front wheel at low speeds pretty easily. On the Zeros there is only a certain speed range where this is possible. I get the engineering compromises behind a lot of this. At times it was very frustrating for me as I’d gas it and by the time it reacted, I crashed into what I was trying to wheelie over.
Having said that, I am pretty much ready to jump in. I see the promise and the performance is pretty close to what I want in a short-range commuter. I spent years on a 2-strokes and have had electric cars and have a PHEV now. I can still have a lot of fun with a Zero but I’ll be actively looking to tweak it as much as I can.
I think the article did a good job of expressing a viewpoint that a lot of people might have. We all know the battery tech is the real holdup and/or a very fast charging solution. Both will be solved in time. Of course aerodynamics are killing the highway range too. If I bought an SR, I’d make it into a quasi-streamliner in short order but the FXS was a lot more fun for me. If they made a FXSR, I’d buy one immediately.
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I won’t claim to be an electric motorcycle expert. I have ridden over 1,000,000 miles on normal motorcycles. I’ve been eagerly following Zero over the years and I am about ready to make the plunge. I’ll likely go for the FXS. I recently demo’d a bunch of their bikes and have a lot of the same complaints that person who wrote the article did and a few more.
I am too busy to write much but what Mr Dude says is pretty much right on. One of the biggest issues I have is the lack of immediacy to the throttle response. I am so used to being able to crack the throttle and loft the front wheel at low speeds pretty easily. On the Zeros there is only a certain speed range where this is possible. I get the engineering compromises behind a lot of this. At times it was very frustrating for me as I’d gas it and by the time it reacted, I crashed into what I was trying to wheelie over.
Having said that, I am pretty much ready to jump in. I see the promise and the performance is pretty close to what I want in a short-range commuter. I spent years on a 2-strokes and have had electric cars and have a PHEV now. I can still have a lot of fun with a Zero but I’ll be actively looking to tweak it as much as I can.
I think the article did a good job of expressing a viewpoint that a lot of people might have. We all know the battery tech is the real holdup and/or a very fast charging solution. Both will be solved in time. Of course aerodynamics are killing the highway range too. If I bought an SR, I’d make it into a quasi-streamliner in short order but the FXS was a lot more fun for me. If they made a FXSR, I’d buy one immediately.
FXS R
Hmmmm
Im sure it would be fun :-X
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Alright, I'll concede that given low gear ratios, it's very possible for an ICE with lower torque to actually put more torque to the ground. That's what gears do, after all. And okay, in other peoples's worlds, that may be a critical matter. It's not in my non-dirt-bike riding world, but that's a personal thing...I couldn't tell you a single difference between a supermoto bike and a motocross bike. Of course it's possible that outside its sweet spot, this drivetrain (just like any drivetrain) is overmatched. (Do NOT get me started about torque and horsepower vs rpm, though! Horsepower = torque times rpm times a constant for EVERY motor, electric, ICE, hydraulic, pneumatic, whatever. No advantage to any team here.)
But the article doesn't read that way, at least to my eyes. Maybe I'm oversensitive, having read way too many absurd comments about the viability of EVs in general, or maybe I should know to never read an article about dirt bikes, but he doesn't make very clear that his problems with the bikes are primarily about their inability to be competitive on the dirt. Seems to me all the riding they did was on the street; if you're saying it doesn't make a competitive dirt bike, was this really the test ride to make that point on?
But I stand by a lot of my original points. Actual quotes, his words not mine: "The only place where they struggle performance-wise is weight, but the bulk of that comes from the battery." Then, a little later, "At 293 pounds and with 44 horsepower and 70 pound-feet of torque, it makes the 321 pound, 32 horsepower, 24 pound-feet of torque Suzuki DR-Z look like it belongs in the D league. At least on paper." If one is a tub of lard at 293 pounds, what does that make the 321-pound bike? Come on, you can't apologize for that kind of journalistic lack of consistency. And do you really think a section heading of "We Rode The Damned Thing(s)" doesn't indicate a lack of open-mindedness? How about "If I’m honest, I expected more range." Where did that expectation come from? And is he REALLY trying to say that the bike is too noisy AND too quiet???? WTF, dude?
Look, like I said, I know nothing about dirt bikes, and if they're both lousy dirt bikes, okay. But that's not how the article reads. They rode only on the street, as far as I can tell, and it seems to me he's commenting on their overall performance, not just their "supermoto" cred.
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Weight is a funny one.
The SR is lighter at 407 lb.
According to google the average WET WEIGHT is 428 lb.
A 2015 Yamaha R6 (what I use to own) is 417 lb. You can easy lighten a R6 with a illegal exhaust system, but I don't think you will save 10 lb.
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They rode only on the street, as far as I can tell, and it seems to me he's commenting on their overall performance, not just their "supermoto" cred.
I think you need to lookup what a supermoto is.
I'll give a brief history.
in the 70s, there was a made for TV series that took the best paved track racers, dirt track racers, and motorcross riders, and made a "equal" series with some high speed asphalt, some dirt. mild jumps. The bikes were dirtbikes with road tires.
It went ok, then died in the USA. It took off in europe, but remained distant from the USA until around the early 2000s.
In the early 2000s, a bunch of politics made the 4 stroke motorcross bike competitive with the 2stroke... 4strokes became common.
This let the idea of putting sportbike size wheels on a motorcross bike more feasible. it took off like gangbusters with anyone that liked to turn fast, jump, or otherwise be a hooligain. Instead of stunting on a 450lb sportbike with little suspension travel, you can wheelie on a bike made for it, with the 12" of suspension that a dirtbike offers, and the grip of the latest sportbike tires.
so if you like to attack the turns, theres a lightweight bike. If you like to ride it hard, hitting jumps, it does it. If you like to mess around and cause trouble, its the go-to machine.
Its not for long trips. Its not for commuting. its not for trail riding or going hard offroad... its mostly for fooling around on in the manner that 18-29 year olds like to do on motorcycles.
Its NOT for posers. Its NOT for looking cool. Girls dont like your dirtbike with funny small wheels. Cruise in guys dont like your odd looking bike near their polished frame sportbikes with LED lights. Cruiser guys dont like you doing wheelies in their parade. Its not for them.
Its sole existence is to dick around on in a manner that would be called irresponsible at best.
That is the essence of a supermoto.
That is why if it cant wheelie on demand, it is not a supermoto.
Weight is a funny one.
The SR is lighter at 407 lb.
According to google the average WET WEIGHT is 428 lb.
A 2015 Yamaha R6 (what I use to own) is 417 lb. You can easy lighten a R6 with a illegal exhaust system, but I don't think you will save 10 lb.
I donno about the R6, but most sportbike exhausts contain the cat, and a valve to limit the noise when at street RPMS... so my CBR1000RRs exhaust weighed over 10lbs. It was ridiculous.
In anycase, most journalists and armchair riders compare advertised weights.
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[URL]https://youtu.be/ulhuBxhP8m0/URL]
"Needs to wheelie to be a super moto"
Does that count?
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
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[URL]https://youtu.be/ulhuBxhP8m0/URL]
"Needs to wheelie to be a super moto"
Does that count?
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
We've already established the fx and fxs can wheelie if you roll off then wack it open at the proper speed/rpm.
It can't do it from another speed, faster or slower. An autoclutch CRF50 is easier to wheelie.
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"Electric motorcycles get a ton of people that just want to go from point A to point B. the same people that also speak softly and dont eat beef."
Heh. You know who eats a lot of beef? Harley riders. They also drink a lot of beer, and thus must be the pinnacle of motorcycling prowess. This vegetarian motorcyclist is interested in a bit more than two-dimensional geometry...and two-dimensional stereotypes.
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"Electric motorcycles get a ton of people that just want to go from point A to point B. the same people that also speak softly and dont eat beef."
Heh. You know who eats a lot of beef? Harley riders. They also drink a lot of beer, and thus must be the pinnacle of motorcycling prowess. This vegetarian motorcyclist is interested in a bit more than two-dimensional geometry...and two-dimensional stereotypes.
I knew I shouldn't have made a vegetarian joke. Vegetarians do not have a sense of humor.
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A younger co-worker of mine was interested in buying a motorcycle. He knew I had ridden for years so came to me with a question, "Which is the best bike?" I told him that there was no answer to the question because it depends on what the intended use is. He kept asking "Which bike is the best?" I said it is a matter of personal preference. The next day "Which is the best bike?" I finally figured out the answer so I told him, "The very best bike in the entire world is...... the one you're riding!" He bought a Ducati.
Say10
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A younger co-worker of mine was interested in buying a motorcycle. He knew I had ridden for years so came to me with a question, "Which is the best bike?" I told him that there was no answer to the question because it depends on what the intended use is. He kept asking "Which bike is the best?" I said it is a matter of personal preference. The next day "Which is the best bike?" I finally figured out the answer so I told him, "The very best bike in the entire world is...... the one you're riding!" He bought a Ducati.
Say10
I used to love people like that. It was a steady stream of discount Ducati parts. (I used to commute with a ducati, and it always needed something random)
Now.. I just get sad because I know they will never learn to ride properly, and either scare themselves, or crash.. then stop riding. They may even preach later about how it was too dangerous.
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"I knew I shouldn't have made a vegetarian joke. Vegetarians do not have a sense of humor."
Since I actually made a joke in the same post, I'm guessing that you just have trouble recognizing humor. Sounds like a BMW rider. ;-)
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We've already established the fx and fxs can wheelie if you roll off then wack it open at the proper speed/rpm.
It can't do it from another speed, faster or slower. An autoclutch CRF50 is easier to wheelie.
What about 2014/2015 FX promotional video, lots of wheelieing in those. Seems to be at low speed, not mid speed.
Could they have been riding with only one battery or in ECO mode??? Or has the FXS been "detuned" from the 2015 FX?
Nothing was mentioned about the different modes in the review.
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"I knew I shouldn't have made a vegetarian joke. Vegetarians do not have a sense of humor."
Since I actually made a joke in the same post, I'm guessing that you just have trouble recognizing humor. Sounds like a BMW rider. ;-)
See?! This is exactly what I was talking about! LOL
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We've already established the fx and fxs can wheelie if you roll off then wack it open at the proper speed/rpm.
It can't do it from another speed, faster or slower. An autoclutch CRF50 is easier to wheelie.
What about 2014/2015 FX promotional video, lots of wheelieing in those. Seems to be at low speed, not mid speed.
Could they have been riding with only one battery or in ECO mode??? Or has the FXS been "detuned" from the 2015 FX?
Nothing was mentioned about the different modes in the review.
As someone else posted from Zero the FXS isn't detuned it is the same exact bike inside the forks and rear. The key is the wheel size the FX has a 21 front and a 18 rear which starts it off a little fork high. While the FXS has two 17 wheels so its more level and I would assume, since I don't wheelie, you would need to really give it a lift with the handle bars to get it going. For me it's kind of like a burn out an attention getting trick that most people are watching just to see if you mess up and hurt yourself like a circus high wire act. But if that's what someone wants to do and it makes them happy than wheelie away.
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"I knew I shouldn't have made a vegetarian joke. Vegetarians do not have a sense of humor."
Since I actually made a joke in the same post, I'm guessing that you just have trouble recognizing humor. Sounds like a BMW rider. ;-)
Oddly, I found that joke more true than funny since I have a 17-year old granddaughter who is a strict vegetarian and she has no humor. In fact, when I or her mother tries to tell her a joke, she says (in all seriousness) "Do you really think that is funny?". On the other hand, her 15-year old sister is a meat (and pizza with meat toppings) eater and loves jokes and cartoons. So there just may be something to that observation. ;)
And speaking of BMW motorcycle owners: the BMW forum that I frequent (each morning before visiting this one) has a joke section that has over 1500 posts so far - and it gets about 10 jokes and cartoons added ever day. Just about all were posted by people in the U.S. and Ireland. ??? So BMW owners can recognize a joke - especially after buying a BMW motorcycle. ;)
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Not a Vegetarian, or, Vegan here, well Las Vegan, but, different pronunciation, but, a person's humor level may hinge upon WHY the chose the lifestyle.
Strictly because they believe in health benefits my not affect humor. If they are doing it because of doom and gloom, trying to save the planet, it may
be a different story. Not really sure how this fits the topic though. :)
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Not a Vegetarian, or, Vegan here, well Las Vegan, but, different pronunciation, but, a person's humor level may hinge upon WHY the chose the lifestyle.
Strictly because they believe in health benefits my not affect humor. If they are doing it because of doom and gloom, trying to save the planet, it may
be a different story. Not really sure how this fits the topic though. :)
It doesnt, but vegans have to have a beef with something.
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Any lifestyle that makes you think multiple times a day about the pain and damage being wrought in the world makes it a bit harder to be laid back than one that lets you do whatever you feel like doing, but some people do manage it. I've always had a good sense of humor, according to those around me. It's less funny when people direct jokes *at* you, personally, or everyone with your philosophy, than you might expect, though.
I don't doubt that there are thousands of jokes on the BMW site, but are any of them funny? ;-)
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Any lifestyle that makes you think multiple times a day about the pain and damage being wrought in the world makes it a bit harder to be laid back than one that lets you do whatever you feel like doing, but some people do manage it. I've always had a good sense of humor, according to those around me. It's less funny when people direct jokes *at* you, personally, or everyone with your philosophy, than you might expect, though.
I don't doubt that there are thousands of jokes on the BMW site, but are any of them funny? ;-)
Most are very funny, some not so much. The thread is titled "the worst jokes ever" and many live up to that expectation. The fact that the forum moderators put up with these jokes says something about the people visiting the site. ;)
With regard to my vegetarian-eating granddaughter, it is all about her body and living well. She does about 90 minutes of calisthenics every night before going to bed and stands all day long. Even at a restaurant she will not sit down. However, her sister does not have similar concerns. ??? Neither girl watches television and they have no interest in improving the world. Perhaps that comes from being home-schooled? ???
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It's less funny when people direct jokes *at* you, personally, or everyone with your philosophy, than you might expect, though.
I donno... I mean you accused me of being a BMW rider 3 times now, and I am still laughing about it...
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It's less funny when people direct jokes *at* you, personally, or everyone with your philosophy, than you might expect, though.
I donno... I mean you accused me of being a BMW rider 3 times now, and I am still laughing about it...
Thoes are fighting words
O wait its only fighting words when your called a bmw driver thats right
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It's less funny when people direct jokes *at* you, personally, or everyone with your philosophy, than you might expect, though.
I donno... I mean you accused me of being a BMW rider 3 times now, and I am still laughing about it...
Thoes are fighting words
O wait its only fighting words when your called a bmw driver thats right
uhh.. AHEM.. I Drive a BMW.
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Reminds me of the joke "What is the difference between a BMW (car) and a porcupine?"
The pricks are on the inside. :)
No offense intended for Mr D.
On a more relevant note to the original topic, I plan on taking a few more rides and determine which Zero should be in the garage. I'm committed to the concept, now just need the one that will be the most fun/useful for me. I am definitely leaning toward the FXS. I still would like an FXS R version. I don't care if it only had a 40 mile range, I could have a ton of fun in the 30 minutes I could ride it.
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I think Mr Dude is safe, as Audi drivers have taken the BMW driver mantle (who in turn took it off Volvo drivers...) ;)
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I think Mr Dude is safe, as Audi drivers have taken the BMW driver mantle (who in turn took it off Volvo drivers...) ;)
I'm really not. I'm a total prick when I drive.
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"I donno... I mean you accused me of being a BMW rider 3 times now, and I am still laughing about it..."
I only accused you of that once. Either it's echoing in your ears, or other people are saying it about you too... ;-)