ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Nomad on February 08, 2016, 02:54:55 AM
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Hope this is the right subforum to post this.
I'm buying my first electric bike and need to decide between two used Zeros.
My commute to work is a short 30Km/19Miles round trip mostly through traffic + some 110 Kph highway.
A new Zero fx/s costs here in Israel 17,500$USD. Yes, 17 and a half thausand dollars.
The two options currently available are:
1. 2014 fx, 1 year old, 14,500Km (9K Miles). Sold by our Zero dealership with a new 2 year (5 year battery) warranty.
9,300$ USD.
2. 2016 fxs, 3 months old, 2,000Km (1.2K Miles).
12,100$ USD.
What do you guys think? Are the changes between 14fx and 16fxs minus 12,000 Km on the odometer worth 2,800$?
Im also concerned with being able to sell a 14 fx in 2017 or 2018.
Thanks.
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Getting S wheels and a brake kit to Israel would probably be expensive, so personally I would go with the FXS unless you plan to do some off roading?
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The FXS has the new IPM motor so is less prone to overheating if you ride it hard. I would go with the FXS. The suspension has been upgraded from 2014 on the FXS as well. It will also be a little lower on the seat height. All good things for the road. But I wonder why its being sold after only 3 months?
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I'd be worried about that FXS being wrecked and repaired. I spoke with the seller, said he dropped the bike. Something doesn't add up. If it was an FX I'd drive up there to see, but the Supermoto has no advantage in the city, unless vertically challenged, and can't be ridden offroad. FX offers weekend fun. Not sure how a used bike has a new warranty, I think maybe they're offering additional warranty on used Zeros they sell.
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I'd be worried about that FXS being wrecked and repaired. I spoke with the seller, said he dropped the bike. Something doesn't add up. If it was an FX I'd drive up there to see, but the Supermoto has no advantage in the city, unless vertically challenged, and can't be ridden offroad. FX offers weekend fun. Not sure how a used bike has a new warranty, I think maybe they're offering additional warranty on used Zeros they sell.
Fxs no advantage on the street? Um can you please explain this, you get a bigger brake so I would strongly disagree.... having a 13 fx supermoto with the 13 s wheels..... Out handles the stock fx on the street....
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I'd be worried about that FXS being wrecked and repaired. I spoke with the seller, said he dropped the bike. Something doesn't add up. If it was an FX I'd drive up there to see, but the Supermoto has no advantage in the city, unless vertically challenged, and can't be ridden offroad. FX offers weekend fun. Not sure how a used bike has a new warranty, I think maybe they're offering additional warranty on used Zeros they sell.
If you dont see what kind of advantage a supermoto has in the city... you're just ignorant of supermotos. LOL
FXS vs FX
It can stop faster
It can turn better (on asphalt)
It can accelerate/brake/accelerate almost nonstop. the FX will overheat doing this.
It can still jump
it can still go offroad (with better supermoto tires, it can suprass the stock FX "knobbies")
it can still wheelie.
it can still stoppie.
its still high enough to see over traffic.
its still tall enough that a 6ft person isnt cramped.
soo tell me, how does it suck in the city? thats where it shines.
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You're thinking of a wide open city in the USA or Canada, not Israel. Here its better to be able to see above traffic, jump a curb, race across a vacant lot. This is the FX. There's an advantage to having tubes too. You can't swap out tires here (only tread patterns) due to local regulation. Small country, the forest and trails are no more than 10-15km away for most. As for overheating, I'm 1.82m and riding a friends FX last summer around Tel-Aviv it never overheated. My friend is 1.95m and at least 100kg. Not riding 120kph in the city the FX brakes are more than adequate. I would buy an FXS if I rode supermoto, needed more range for commuting, never even thought of riding offroad, and there was less traffic.
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You're thinking of a wide open city in the USA or Canada, not Israel. Here its better to be able to see above traffic, jump a curb, race across a vacant lot. This is the FX. There's an advantage to having tubes too. You can't swap out tires here (only tread patterns) due to local regulation. Small country, the forest and trails are no more than 10-15km away for most. As for overheating, I'm 1.82m and riding a friends FX last summer around Tel-Aviv it never overheated. My friend is 1.95m and at least 100kg. Not riding 120kph in the city the FX brakes are more than adequate. I would buy an FXS if I rode supermoto, needed more range for commuting, never even thought of riding offroad, and there was less traffic.
Thats right, there is no traffic in USA cities, they are wide open spaces. Really?
Seems there are no footpath users in Israel, just jump the kerb at speed and ride across a vacant lot because you are in a hurry???
Also seems no one rides harder than Yon in Israel!
There are plenty of people on this forum who have hit thermal limits on an FX and been frustrated by it.
I think the FX is a great bike but if you are going to ride 95% of your time on sealed roads then the FXS is the bike. I have the 2015 SR, and I also ride it over kerbs but at walking speed so I can park on the footpath. I have spent a fair amount of time in country Thailand and you would be surprised where a street bike/scooter can be taken off road. Deep thick mud, rough trails. No jumps of course. But the FXS would beat these bikes hands down off road. You can still have fun offroad with it. Many people here in good old Australia commute on supermotards. Trying to squeeze around cars through tight spaces in dense traffic, a lower seat hight really helps. If your main use is to commute then the FXS for sure. Plus add what all the other guys have already said.
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Im not going to completely reem you publicly; as ive been told on here im to agressive with my wording.... But
The fx doesnt have tubes in the tires... The s wheels will take a curb at 25+ so your pount is invalid, you have a third option to use ds wheels and utilize the bigger brake too
If you havnt ridden a"fx s" or fx with s wheels you shouldnt even be commenting
If you take all mud out of the equation the fxs>fx
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grmarks... I appreciate your need to argue your point with me. Unfortunate as it is. Truth is you're not here and haven't a clue the extent of our traffic. The central region is as densely populated as Hong Kong. If you're riding here in the city, the central region is one city melting into another. Good luck going any faster than 50kmh, there is no opening up the throttle so despite 40C summer heat, there is no real chance of overheating on the asphalt. I enjoy riding my SR and routinely find myself navigating between cars where I'd prefer the additional height of the FX. Riding offroad, that depends where you live but the soft sands surrounding Tel-Aviv do not favor my Pirelli Diablo Rosso tires.
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Ream who? 1) the FX does HAVE tubes, the FXS does not. 2) Israel has straight curbs, some are taller then then should be, you'd be a fool to hit one above 10-15kmh. 3) Local regulations does NOT allow the use of alternative rims or tire sizes.
I've ridden both the FX and FXS and prefer the FX for all the options it affords... in Israel.
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Ream who? 1) the FX does HAVE tubes, the FXS does not. 2) Israel has straight curbs, some are taller then then should be, you'd be a fool to hit one above 10-15kmh. 3) Local regulations does NOT allow the use of alternative rims or tire sizes.
I've ridden both the FX and FXS and prefer the FX for all the options it affords... in Israel.
Well then lets go there
1). Um no, none of my fx's have ever had tubes... The whole fleet..... Either way there is not much that the spoked wheels are going to take that the alloys wont, ive hit huge curbs on my alloys, at way over 10-15kph LOL!!!! Yes you can put a tube in the fx's for greater reliability on nasty trails..... But I cant recall ever getting a flat on any of the zeros in my garage..... O wait yes there is one that tiny little thing they made in 2008 called the Electricross, it had bicycles rims, tires, and tubes....
2) so all curbs arent made the same? Really every one here in america is exactly 6"high spanning 12" before the mark with a 20degree slope.... NO absolutely not every curb is different, we even have some that are extra tall and vertical without any helping slant...., and to think you have curbs that cant be hopped over.... Well thats all rider experience buddy....I can jump a 1.5' foot curb easily i might add on my "fxs" So get some more seat time.....
3) this is the only reason you cant truely experience both bikes or use one for both and why your are bias.... No one else on here has regulations stating you cant change wheels size....and you have just shown why you choose one over the other you want to ride offroad.... Obviously your not going to be able to if you cant even change the tires on the fxs in your country, im sorry but what a fuxking joke! You cant even put knobbies on your fx? Then you dont even know about going anywhere off road on it the stock dual sports suck huge ass!!!
Now of you really want the beat of onroad handleing and offroad handling get the ds wheels on the fxs
You then get all the benefits and no negatives from the ds/fx/fxs
Fxs has ipm motor
14 ds wheels still spoked but big front and rear rotor and best off road dual sports offered, unless you can get you hands on the new tires but thats up in the air for me i like big chunks on my tires when off roading with dualsport tires, (the 14ds wheels on thr fx will handle better offroad than the stock fx wheels and tires.....
And with the big wheels you get the big brake which is sooo sooo much better than the fx brake, you may think the fx stops good enough, but the reality is it stops like shit, one of the worst stopping bikes period....... Put that big rotor on the front and you will be stoppie'ing everywhere like your superman
The 14ds wheels would be best as tou still get the jjaun brakes front and rear, and most of it would bolt if you know what little parts to get....
Now to brush up on some other points that are innaccurate
No the fxs is not really faster than the fx, the sustained top speed might be higher but the acceleration will be slightly lower with the ipm motor, everything will basically equal out, so incould consider them the same bike one with street riding in mind the other more fire road gravel road capable....
Seeing over cars.... The fxs is not really that much shorter than the fx.... Stand up on the bike if you need more visibility......its barely 2 inches at the seat.... Less at the pegs so your saying the 1.5" difference is that big a deal when your trying to see cars etc???
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I recently rode both bikes and they were 2016 models. I have been in Israel so I understand the traffic issues but they are comparable to Los Angeles, just not as big an area. I have driven quite a bit in Israel so I understand your dilemma.
I would definitely go with the FXS model. I understand you can't change rims/sizes but you can change tire types. The FXS was a better all around bike. Even the people at the factory say the FXS can do virtually everything the FS can do and is almost as competent offroad. One thing about tube tires, when they go flat, it is almost immediate and can be very dangerous. Unless you are going VERY SERIOUS offroad riding, you can likely do it all with the FXS with a tire swap.
Most importantly as a result of your warm climate, thermal loads are going to be an issues on a hot day almost certainly on the older gen motor. To be honest, I was seeing thermal issues on the latest motor and it wasn't even a hot day. It was about +19C. I am about 105kg and I was riding in the mountains near the factory. If I was in the deserts in California it would have occurred sooner and taken longer to cool down. I rode the previous versions and they got into thermal issues much more quickly than the latest versions do.
Anyway just wheelie over the curbs. I rode a super moto on the street/light dirt for some time and never had an wheel issues. I am a pretty aggressive rider and spent a lot of my earlier years racing offroad and then onto road racing. I am not afraid to push the limits either on or offroad.
The only real advantage I could see to the spoked wheels is they might take an impact better and just deform rather than break. Then again, if you brake a modern cast wheel, it generally takes a heck of an impact. I have a large ADV bike with cast wheels that weighs over 230 kilosand loaded up with gear and myself, it is probably 350 kilos. In all the offroad riding, jumping kerbs, etc., I never broke a wheel on it and did surprisingly well offroad.
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Riding offroad, that depends where you live but the soft sands surrounding Tel-Aviv do not favor my Pirelli Diablo Rosso tires.
Furthering our point
The fxs will do just as good where your ride and the ds wheels and tires on the fxs would the the best of all areas including on the sand where you struggle
And i dont beleive it would change the rim size, when if itndid tounare going to a different zero wheel from another bike you can buy i doubt you would actually get in trouble for it.....
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Day trippin:
I have seen 1 broken zero alloy
1 EVER
Off cowboyelectrics race bike i was debating buying for parts, and he crashes it going fast.... If you crash that hard you are lucky to walk away forget the wheels on the bike....
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Let me address some points made here.
Yon, I do ride in the center of Israel close to Tel-Aviv, BUT my ride is about 1/3 slow traffic filtering, 1/3 medium traffic lane splitting at ~80Kph, 1/3 low traffic lane splitting at ~100-110 (on highway #4).
Your hard statement about not being able to ride above 50Kph is wrong, at least in my case.
Curb riding? Not for me or anyone I know. I do need to go (slow enough) up curbs here and there, but the discussion about at which speed you can take on an "Israeli" curb is not relevant.
Regarding offroad: I come from enduro background, mainly a Husqvarna two stroke. The offroading that I really want to do is 12 hours (5:00am till 5pm) of woods/rocks/hillclimbs, and for that I just don't have the time (Family and kids), plus no Zero can do that. So for now I'm looking for a commuter bike. Being able to do SOME offroading is a bonus, but not a must.
Cortezdtv, regulations here state that you can have whatever rubber you want to put on, as long as it's size (diameter, width etc..) is the same as originals and it's highway certified. So most dual sport/offroad tires are OK. True enduro tire would not be highway certified, but most dirtbikes put them on anyway. Changing wheel size is illegal (for example putting FXS wheels on FX).
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What is the penalty? Obviously you just said dirtbikers do it? Do you just change before registration/inspection if you have it? Or get pulled over and fined?
I kinda figured the curb thing wouldnt have mattered but, I mean to say the bike cant hit a curb is a litttle outlandish....
You could do the fxs and out a dual sport in it it would handle pretty food offroad!
But for the price difference its a no brainer for me buy the 14
Also any parts that they make for 15s 16s and further on will bolt into the 14and up bikes si you could turn it into a more modern bike when the battery is toasted 5-10 years later.... That cant be said with the previous bikes
Not saying the battery would even be close to bad at that tine...
5am-5pm sounds like alot of swapping batteries; but in reality the bikes CAN do it if you had 6 batteries and charging
I was riding from 9am to 630 yesterday....
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grmarks... I appreciate your need to argue your point with me. Unfortunate as it is. Truth is you're not here and haven't a clue the extent of our traffic. The central region is as densely populated as Hong Kong. If you're riding here in the city, the central region is one city melting into another. Good luck going any faster than 50kmh, there is no opening up the throttle so despite 40C summer heat, there is no real chance of overheating on the asphalt. I enjoy riding my SR and routinely find myself navigating between cars where I'd prefer the additional height of the FX. Riding offroad, that depends where you live but the soft sands surrounding Tel-Aviv do not favor my Pirelli Diablo Rosso tires.
True I have never been to Israel, but I have been to Hong Kong, Bangkok and Taipei. I think those places have traffic! Yon you like the FX for its off road ability and dual sport nature, thats fine. I love my SR because I use it 100% on road for city, suburbs and open freeway riding. So if you and I had the choice that Nomad has you would pick the FX and I would pick the FXS. Nomad just needs to decide which of us is closer to what he does. But bear in mind that the FXS can go off road as well, just not to the extent of the FX.
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Nomad did not mention offroading in the original post and intends to do zero offroading on his Zero - be it the offroad Zero or the not offroad Zero.
But seriouly, I care about the following:
Price to resell price difference
Time to sell the bike
Braking distance/stability/overall safety
Ride comfort/ traffic filtering
Minimum "down" time for service, break downs
No overheating on 37C summer days (short ride, 75Kg rider)
I dont care so much about:
Range (need 30km daily)
Offroad abilities
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Nomad did not mention offroading in the original post and intends to do zero offroading on his Zero - be it the offroad Zero or the not offroad Zero.
But seriouly, I care about the following:
Price to resell price difference
Time to sell the bike
Braking distance/stability/overall safety
Ride comfort/ traffic filtering
Minimum "down" time for service, break downs
No overheating on 37C summer days (short ride, 75Kg rider)
I dont care so much about:
Range (need 30km daily)
Offroad abilities
Given what you just said, its a no brainer, FXS is best for you and thats the consensus of all but one.
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What do you guys think? Are the changes between 14fx and 16fxs minus 12,000 Km on the odometer worth 2,800$?
Odometer not concerning.
If you sold the bike in two years, you'd probably recover most of the $2800.
Ignoring the FX vs FXS: suspension, brakes, battery, and new motor design are worth it alone.
Ignoring the year: a FXS works better for you than a FX (or would for me if I had similar needs), and many FX owners in similar boats spent more than $2800 to convert their FX bikes to supermotos.
This seems like an easy choice.
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I'd be worried about that FXS being wrecked and repaired. I spoke with the seller, said he dropped the bike. Something doesn't add up. If it was an FX I'd drive up there to see, but the Supermoto has no advantage in the city, unless vertically challenged, and can't be ridden offroad. FX offers weekend fun. Not sure how a used bike has a new warranty, I think maybe they're offering additional warranty on used Zeros they sell.
About that "wrecked and repaired" claim for this specific bike.. I pm'd you with no reply. This is a serious allegatiaon. Please share any details you know (best in private). Thanks.
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No claim, common sense. Why does someone sell a bike after a month for what, fifteen thousand less?
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No claim, common sense. Why does someone sell a bike after a month for what, fifteen thousand less?
because it didnt fit their needs.
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Real cordial here are we not. Seems everyone thinks they know better. Didn't fit his needs... so why buy it in the first place? I spoke with him, have to cross that off. The market is good here for Zeros, they're selling at list. If someone is offering a month old FXS for sale at less than the price of a year old bike its a sure sign that all is not as it appears.
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Real cordial here are we not. Seems everyone thinks they know better. Didn't fit his needs... so why buy it in the first place? I spoke with him, have to cross that off. The market is good here for Zeros, they're selling at list. If someone is offering a month old FXS for sale at less than the price of a year old bike its a sure sign that all is not as it appears.
Or its possible the year old bike you're comparing it to is overvalued.
Theres a FX on ebay I keep looking at.. its a 2014 with supermoto wheels in NJ... but his price is 1k shy of a brand new IPM motored FXS. If he lowered it down to something realistic, I would probably have already bough it... but with the price going down every year faster than "standard depreciation" some people have their used bikes priced way too high.
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We're talking about an FXS in Israel. It's a closed market, meaning you can't just buy a Zero on ebay and import it.