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[Tony_]

There's been quite a lot of talk in these forums of the issue nicknamed magic charging,  which manifests by your motorbike being unable to calculate the remaining power on your battery, which could result in entering low power driving mode even if you actually have plenty of battery charge left.

I got those problems on a long road trip recently, and delivered the bike to service after returning home. And it seems its now 100% fixed (within warranty) . This is what they did:

1. Installed the latest firmware (up from v23 to v24 for main board, up from v19 to v20 for BMS)

2. Replaced a faulty electric wire with a new type

Apparently the technician who fixed the bike was just back after having a course with Zero,  and he got all the latest updates from the Zero engineers. And my problem seems to be one of the things he just learned how to fix.

The guy who delivered the bike back to me was not an engineer, so I could not get any detailed info. But apparently the electric cable was leaking electricity. They could find out where by using a wet sponge on the cable and measuring leaks with some special equipment.

Apparently Zero no longer uses the cable that was in my bike anymore (2020 model) , probably this type caused a lot of such problems, so I got a new cable type as a replacement.

Anyway the magic charge issue looks resolved now,  and also I feel the bike is more powerful than before (might be placebo,  but really feels like I got at least 20% stronger acceleration).

There's been lots of theories of what causes this magic charge issue,  from a firmware bug to faulty cells in the battery. But at least in my case,  replacing this electric wire seem to have done the trick.

I plan to run it from 100% to 0% now while tracking the distance,  then let's see what the final km will be and if it matches the 100% charge estimate (185km now,  with the magic charge problem I would get about 80km real range in the end)

Will update this post once I know more.

[GrantMeStrength]

"Leaking electricity". I don't know what to say to that.

[opengl]

"Leaking electricity". I don't know what to say to that.

lol same. I'm taking it as third hand information translated through a few people who weren't clear what was actually done.

[DonTom]

I am thinking the FW being updated was the real fix.  I can only guess about what the "leaking cable" did, but I kinda doubt it had anything to do with the "magic charging".

But let's just hope the issue is really fixed for good.


Now if we could only get a real magic charge when the battery is fully discharged . . .


-Don- Auburn, CA

[Tony]

I am thinking the FW being updated was the real fix.  I can only guess about what the "leaking cable" did, but I kinda doubt it had anything to do with the "magic charging".

But let's just hope the issue is really fixed for good.


Now if we could only get a real magic charge when the battery is fully discharged . . .


-Don- Auburn, CA

Note that the guy handing over the bike was a seller and not the engineer actually repairing the bike. So, when pressing for more details he said he did not know much, and suggested I come back on Monday and ask the engineer directly. But he was very clear that a problem in the wiring was detected by their instruments and resolved by replacing a cable. Apparently the engineer was quite clear that the faulty wire he found would cause a problem like what I experienced.

Did they just try random stuff all at once and got lucky with one of them without knowing which? Hm, perhaps, however I got a very good impression of their engineers from before, very competent guys who also fixed my previous Zero DSR before. And others has updated to the latest firmwares and still reported that the problem persisted afterwards. So I think it is plausible they really know their stuff even though the seller handing over the bike might have presented the details poorly.

Make of it what you want, all I can do is report what happened in my case, and hopefully it can help someone else. I'll try to get some more details out of the engineer next week though.

Anyway, I have been driving over 70km already now, and no sign of this issue anymore. The bike would normally have reported an almost empty battery, but now it is reporting more than 60% left. So, looking good.

[Moto7575]

Thanks a lot! If you can get the precise diagnostic and maybe the reference of the cable, it would help riders dealing with less informed shops !

[MVetter]

This is very nice if true, but I WILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT. And that story about the cable is a load of utter nonsense.

[NervEasy]

The latest update for mbb and bms did not fix my magic charging problems. The only time the dealer had any impact on this problem is when they hard reset the bms board (erase all stored values and start fresh). The bike was then working as it should with correct SoC this only lasted 1500-2000 km as the problem gradually started returning. So hopefully this is not the case with you. Please if possible ask the mechanic what he actually did. If a bms reset has happened the problem probably won’t be fixed. It would be strange to me that changing a wire instantly fixed the problem as the bms should go through a phase where it is “discovering” the extra battery.

Anyway, I’m hopeful but sceptical. Especially since there was the spiderbus problem which is unrelated to magic charging but sounds a lot more like what the salesguy was explaining to you.

[DonTom]

This is very nice if true, but I WILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT. And that story about the cable is a load of utter nonsense.

But you don't fully understand . . . They use a magic cable to fix the magic charging! 


Really, I thought the same as you when I first heard about the "magic cable" to fix the "magic charging".  Sounds like nonsense from a guy who had no clue what he was talking about. Perhaps they changed a cable for some other reason. Or that cable is a lot more special than we both think--such as magic.


-Don- Auburn, CA

[Demoni]

I could see how running HV wires that are not the correct size to carry the required current could result in reduced performance. There would be a higher loss to heat vs a wire with a larger cross section.
It's also possible that the old wires were not properly sealed against the elements. Moisture getting in could cause corrosion, and as a result higher resistance.
Improperly insulated wires could also cause a voltage leak between the core wire and the surrounding ground shielding.


It would help to know exactly what 2 parts of the HV system were connected by the wire they replaced.

[Tony]

I could see how running HV wires that are not the correct size to carry the required current could result in reduced performance. There would be a higher loss to heat vs a wire with a larger cross section.
It's also possible that the old wires were not properly sealed against the elements. Moisture getting in could cause corrosion, and as a result higher resistance.
Improperly insulated wires could also cause a voltage leak between the core wire and the surrounding ground shielding.


It would help to know exactly what 2 parts of the HV system were connected by the wire they replaced.

"Improperly insulated wires could also cause a voltage leak between the core wire and the surrounding ground shielding. " <- Yes, this is exactly what it sounded like to me.

[DonTom]

I could see how running HV wires that are not the correct size to carry the required current could result in reduced performance. There would be a higher loss to heat vs a wire with a larger cross section.
It's also possible that the old wires were not properly sealed against the elements. Moisture getting in could cause corrosion, and as a result higher resistance.
Improperly insulated wires could also cause a voltage leak between the core wire and the surrounding ground shielding.

Sure, such could cause all types of problems. But I don't see how any of those issues could be related to magic charging.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NervEasy]

Yeah… this sounds like the error 42 fix (spiderbus replacement.
). The spiderbus is “a wire” that had priblems with water intrusion. Mine has been replaced before. Just like a lot of early SR/F’s and SR/S’s. Error 2 is an isolation fault that came up when riding through wet weather. So yeah sounds a lot more like that fix than a fix for the magic charging. Can you ask you mechanic if he performed a hard reset of the bms (front battery cover has to be removed and a connection with the serial port there has to be made. Then the computer resets the bms). If that is the case the bms will think it has a new battery and assume full capacity. From then it will “learn” the actual capacity and that is where it goes wrong.

[Tony]

Yeah… this sounds like the error 42 fix (spiderbus replacement.
). The spiderbus is “a wire” that had priblems with water intrusion. Mine has been replaced before. Just like a lot of early SR/F’s and SR/S’s. Error 2 is an isolation fault that came up when riding through wet weather. So yeah sounds a lot more like that fix than a fix for the magic charging. Can you ask you mechanic if he performed a hard reset of the bms (front battery cover has to be removed and a connection with the serial port there has to be made. Then the computer resets the bms). If that is the case the bms will think it has a new battery and assume full capacity. From then it will “learn” the actual capacity and that is where it goes wrong.

Thanks for your insight. I just got an email from the engineer now. He wrote in Swedish, so not sure how to translate it all. But he said there was a leakage in the "busbars", controlling the motor, located under the battery. I suppose this is the Swedish name for spiderbus, which you mentioned.

Good point about whether he performed a hard reset of the BMS that would temporarily remove the MC issue, I replied him and asked now, also asked if he is aware of the magic charge problem in the first place.

I feel less optimistic about that issue now, turns out I might have two problems actually, and only one is fixed while the other might come back... :/

[NervEasy]

The spiderbus is located on the rear of the battery and runs to the inverter on the bottom. The invertor is the electronics that control your motor. So yeah most probably the spiderbus has been changed.

I really hope for you that the magic charging issue is solved though but I would be sceptical. I was in the same boat about a year ago, I thought it was fixed but it wasn't. Then they changed my battery and it was again "fixed" for 1500-2000km as the BMS was also new. Then they changed the battery again and now I am back with full blown magic charging. Gonna contact my dealer for an update tomorrow as he knows that it is the same again for a few weeks now but still no news on a fix.

Sincerely