ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: domingo3 on January 18, 2017, 05:14:29 AM
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I was riding into work on my FXS this morning at full throttle at almost max speed when I the bike suddenly slowed. The best way I can describe it is it felt like a very strong regen (way stronger than what 100% feels like) for a second or so. I quickly rolled off the throttle and things seemed to go back to normal so I continued riding. No other issues were experienced on the ride back home this afternoon. Logs obtained from the online parser are pasted below. This happened around 7:07 AM as indicated on the dash, so I think something is a little off on the times in the log file. It was close to the end of my trip, so my best guess is that this happened around 04:53 in the logs.
Has anyone had an experience like this before, or does anyone see anything unusual in the logs? I have seen the SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame and Batt Dischg Cur Limited other places in the logs, so those are not unique to this time. It looks like there's a big discrepancy between MotAmps and BattAmps, but I'm not that familiar with the logs and don't know if that means anything of significance.
Any ideas on anything else to look at or check? The experience was a little unnerving. It would be nice to know what happened and if it was some kind of isolated incident or something that needs to be looked at for warranty. Taking it into a dealer would mean renting a trailer and several hours of driving.
Thanks!
08063 01/17/2017 04:33:15 Calex 720W Charger 0 Disconnected
08064 01/17/2017 04:33:15 Calex 1200W Charger 1 Disconnected
08065 0 DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
08066 0 Power On Key Switch
08067 0 Key On
08068 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
08069 0 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
08070 0 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
08071 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
08072 0 Module 01 CAN Link Up
08073 0 Module 01 Registered serial: 16sg2651, vmod: 115.981V
08074 01/17/2017 04:36:48 Module 00 CAN Link Up
08075 01/17/2017 04:36:48 Module 00 Registered serial: 16sg2654, vmod: 115.940V
08076 01/17/2017 04:36:48 Sevcon Turned On
08077 01/17/2017 04:36:48 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
08078 01/17/2017 04:36:48 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
08079 01/17/2017 04:36:49 Sevcon CAN Link Up
08080 01/17/2017 04:36:49 DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
08081 01/17/2017 04:36:49 Module 00 Closing Contactor vmod: 115.931V, maxsys: 115.976V, minsys: 115.898V, diff: 0.078V, vcap: 102.437V, prechg: 88%
08082 01/17/2017 04:36:49 Module 01 Closing Contactor vmod: 115.965V, maxsys: 115.976V, minsys: 115.898V, diff: 0.078V, vcap: 102.437V, prechg: 88%
08083 01/17/2017 04:36:49 DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
08084 01/17/2017 04:36:49 INFO: Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
08085 01/17/2017 04:36:49 INFO: Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
08086 01/17/2017 04:36:49 DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed
08087 01/17/2017 04:36:51 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
08088 01/17/2017 04:36:51 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
08089 01/17/2017 04:36:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.943V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 28C, CtrlTemp: 17C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM: 505, Odo: 4943km
08090 01/17/2017 04:37:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:114.419V, MotAmps: 41, BattAmps: 26, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 31C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:2179, Odo: 4944km
08091 01/17/2017 04:38:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:114.242V, MotAmps: 88, BattAmps: 27, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 32C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:1082, Odo: 4944km
08092 01/17/2017 04:39:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC: 98%, Vpack:112.590V, MotAmps: 43, BattAmps: 40, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 35C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:3347, Odo: 4945km
08093 01/17/2017 04:40:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC: 98%, Vpack:114.408V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 35C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:1438, Odo: 4946km
08094 01/17/2017 04:41:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:112.568V, MotAmps: 43, BattAmps: 38, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 35C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:3285, Odo: 4947km
08095 01/17/2017 04:42:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 21C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:114.026V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 37C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:1422, Odo: 4948km
08096 01/17/2017 04:43:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 22C, PackSOC: 95%, Vpack:111.131V, MotAmps: 66, BattAmps: 58, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 40C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:3048, Odo: 4949km
08097 01/17/2017 04:44:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 22C, PackSOC: 95%, Vpack:112.835V, MotAmps: 17, BattAmps: 11, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 40C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:1947, Odo: 4950km
08098 01/17/2017 04:45:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 22C, PackSOC: 94%, Vpack:112.475V, MotAmps: 31, BattAmps: 17, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 40C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:2028, Odo: 4951km
08099 01/17/2017 04:46:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 22C, PackSOC: 94%, Vpack:113.143V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 2, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 40C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:1840, Odo: 4951km
08100 01/17/2017 04:47:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 22C, PackSOC: 92%, Vpack:108.618V, MotAmps: 72, BattAmps: 81, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 44C, CtrlTemp: 21C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:3912, Odo: 4953km
08101 01/17/2017 04:48:57 Riding PackTemp: h 22C, l 22C, PackSOC: 91%, Vpack:109.989V, MotAmps: 74, BattAmps: 61, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 43C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:2649, Odo: 4954km
08102 01/17/2017 04:49:57 Riding PackTemp: h 23C, l 22C, PackSOC: 90%, Vpack:110.058V, MotAmps: 28, BattAmps: 30, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 44C, CtrlTemp: 20C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:3636, Odo: 4955km
08103 01/17/2017 04:50:57 Riding PackTemp: h 23C, l 22C, PackSOC: 89%, Vpack:111.280V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 2, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 44C, CtrlTemp: 20C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:2624, Odo: 4956km
08104 01/17/2017 04:51:57 Riding PackTemp: h 23C, l 23C, PackSOC: 88%, Vpack:106.916V, MotAmps: 85, BattAmps: 102, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 45C, CtrlTemp: 21C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:4109, Odo: 4957km
08105 01/17/2017 04:52:57 Riding PackTemp: h 24C, l 23C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:104.118V, MotAmps: 90, BattAmps: 150, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 59C, CtrlTemp: 26C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:4943, Odo: 4958km
08106 01/17/2017 04:53:38 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 01 00, Unknown
08107 01/17/2017 04:53:48 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 00 00 74, Unknown
08108 01/17/2017 04:53:57 Riding PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 80%, Vpack:103.283V, MotAmps: 41, BattAmps: 65, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 82C, CtrlTemp: 30C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:4718, Odo: 4960km
08109 01/17/2017 04:53:57 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 404 A (77%), MinCell: 3537mV, MaxPackTemp: 27C
08110 01/17/2017 04:54:57 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 78%, Vpack:104.892V, MotAmps: 93, BattAmps: 92, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 69C, CtrlTemp: 25C, AmbTemp: 16C, MotRPM:3383, Odo: 4961km
08111 01/17/2017 04:55:57 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 78%, Vpack:108.376V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: -1, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 65C, CtrlTemp: 22C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 4962km
08112 01/17/2017 04:56:57 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 78%, Vpack:108.286V, MotAmps: 26, BattAmps: 8, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 58C, CtrlTemp: 22C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM: 735, Odo: 4962km
08113 01/17/2017 04:57:57 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:108.521V, MotAmps: 22, BattAmps: 5, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 55C, CtrlTemp: 23C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM: 242, Odo: 4962km
08114 01/17/2017 04:58:57 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:107.826V, MotAmps: 39, BattAmps: 19, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 56C, CtrlTemp: 24C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:1669, Odo: 4963km
08115 01/17/2017 04:59:57 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 76%, Vpack:107.980V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 1, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 54C, CtrlTemp: 23C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM:1907, Odo: 4963km
08116 01/17/2017 05:00:51 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
08117 01/17/2017 05:00:51 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
08118 01/17/2017 05:00:57 Power Off Key Switch
08119 01/17/2017 05:00:57 Sevcon Turned Off
08120 01/17/2017 05:00:57 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 108.266V, batt curr: 1A
08121 01/17/2017 05:00:57 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 108.285V, batt curr: 0A
08122 01/17/2017 05:00:57 INFO: Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
08123 01/17/2017 05:00:57 INFO: Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
08124 0 DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
08125 0 Power On Key Switch
08126 0 Key On
08127 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
08128 0 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
08129 0 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
08130 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
08131 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
08132 1 Sevcon Turned On
08133 1 Module 01 CAN Link Up
08134 1 Module 01 Registered serial: 16sg2651, vmod: 109.032V
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didn't see this a couple posts down? Sudden Braking Followed by No Response on Highway (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6548.0)
what year is your bike? 2016? if so this is at least the 2nd case. i would definitely be contacting Zero and sending some logs with a detailed description of the event.
this does not make me happy to hear...
laters,
laramie ;)
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Yes, it's a 2016. Sounds like it could be the same thing, but your experience was clearly more severe than mine. My experience was more like Fred's. Have you gotten any response about this? Will send logs now. If it is the same thing, I don't think it has anything to do with water. I haven't ridden in the rain in a few weeks.
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This sounds like a ride through fault that is very rare but usually will only happen at full throttle situations where the Sevcon is at the power limits of its current control. It's nothing to worry too much about. If you don't like it, switch to custom mode and set max torque to 95% and that should fix it. You are just at the very edge limit. In fact you could probably set it to 98% and be ok. This is just a guess on my part but its what it sounds like to me. Try that and see.
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What's your firmware and board version?
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What's your firmware and board version?
Firmware 48
Board 3
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I hope this isn't an indication of something inherently wrong with the FXS.
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Sadly, I have to admit that I already experienced something very similar on my MY16 FXS. Message looks quite similar, I also noticed a sudden drawback of power, but I can't confirm whether I could have ridden on or not, as I turned off and back on immediately. I first thought I might have run into the custom speed limit, but it was set higher. Nevertheless I want to test soon how it feels to get to the customized speed limit.
Apparently, owning a Zero isn't worry free yet.
Firmware 49
Board 3
02511 01/06/2017 05:59:19 Riding PackTemp: h 10C, l 9C, PackSOC: 93%, Vpack:105.813V, MotAmps: 57, BattAmps: 53, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 29C, CtrlTemp: 5C, AmbTemp: 0C, MotRPM:3216, Odo: 1469km
02512 01/06/2017 05:59:19 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 507 A (97%), MinCell: 3633mV, MaxPackTemp: 10C
02513 01/06/2017 06:00:19 Riding PackTemp: h 11C, l 9C, PackSOC: 91%, Vpack:107.329V, MotAmps: 29, BattAmps: 32, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 29C, CtrlTemp: 5C, AmbTemp: 0C, MotRPM:3586, Odo: 1470km
02514 01/06/2017 06:00:56 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 01 00, Unknown
02515 01/06/2017 06:00:57 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 00 00 00, Unknown
02516 01/06/2017 06:00:57 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 02 00, Unknown
02517 01/06/2017 06:01:00 Power Off Key Switch
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Lenny were you at full throttle when it happened? Did you see my comment above?
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Can't remember exactly as this happened already a few days ago and I didn't pull the logs until yesterday. Probably I was, because I just overtook someone and was speeding up even more. Anyway this shouldn't happen, limiting torque by the app is a workaround and not a real solution ;-)
Just found a list with SEVCON error codes. Can't find "46C3" as in our logs, but the "52C3" out of MajorMajor's logs from the other thread is a "current control fault".
http://jan.peman.com/hacks/EmergencyErrorCodes.txt (http://jan.peman.com/hacks/EmergencyErrorCodes.txt)
07313 01/10/2017 14:13:03 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 01 00, Unknown
07314 01/10/2017 14:13:04 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 00 00 99, Unknown
07315 01/10/2017 14:13:04 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 02 00, Unknown
07316 01/10/2017 14:13:04 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 00 00 23, Unknown
07317 01/10/2017 14:13:04 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x52C3, Data: 00 00 00, Unknown
07318 01/10/2017 14:13:04 Restarting Sevcon to clear cutout fault
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Right if you read what I wrote above, current control is exactly what I figured. Zero could have sold the bike and dialed back power 10% from the factory, but I think they dialed it up to try to give everyone as much power as possible since instances of this happening is so rare, and when it does, it's supposed to self correct. Called a ride through fault, all you have to do is return the throttle to the off position and it should reset and give acceleration again. This would happen on my 2012 a lot, maybe 10 times a day, but at the time wasn't a ride through, so would require a key cycle. Updates later came that made them ride through as well.
On my 2015 I've never had one, but perhaps on the next bike they should hide some power so it's not on the edge of current control, what do you think? I personally would say give the user all the power, as a current control fault if it were to ever happen is not the end of the world. No worse than on my gas bikes hitting condensation drops on hot humid days and cool nights where the fuel line would hit water and lose power for 10 seconds or so until fresh fuel got to the injectors again.
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Terry,
I really appreciate the information that you share with us. I wish that we could get this kind of stuff officially from Zero rather than relying on 2nd hand information (although I consider you to be pretty reliable).
I wanted to check with you, though, to make sure we're talking about the same phenomenon. I know what coasting feels like, and I know what "100%" regen feels like, and this was neither one of those. There was very significant resistance from the back wheel - several times "100%" regen. Is this the ride-through fault that you are suggesting? If so, what is actually happening that causes the resistance?
Do you know if this correlates to SEVCON error code 46C3 as Lenny speculated? I've seen that particular error code in other instances in my logs, but this is the only time something happened that I could sense.
I am by no means alarmist, but I think that this is dangerous and not something to dismiss as "not the end of the world". Again, it's not simply loss of power, it's a rapid deceleration that occurs unpredictably. If this were to happen just as a car was cutting too close to me, it would cause an accident. Dialing back the torque by a few percent isn't appealing, since you're giving up power everywhere to prevent something that happens only at high speed. Is this something that firmware could address?
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This happened to me again last week. Like before, it was transient, but unexpected and unnerving. I noticed motor temperature jumped pretty dramatically both times this happened.
06959 02/13/2017 14:31:12 Riding PackTemp: h 27C, l 27C, PackSOC: 73%, Vpack:107.024V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 47C, CtrlTemp: 26C, AmbTemp: 24C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 5915km
06960 02/13/2017 14:32:12 Riding PackTemp: h 27C, l 27C, PackSOC: 72%, Vpack:106.152V, MotAmps: 27, BattAmps: 4, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 49C, CtrlTemp: 28C, AmbTemp: 23C, MotRPM: 425, Odo: 5916km
06961 02/13/2017 14:33:12 Riding PackTemp: h 29C, l 29C, PackSOC: 67%, Vpack:101.626V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 8, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 77C, CtrlTemp: 40C, AmbTemp: 23C, MotRPM:5359, Odo: 5917km
06962 02/13/2017 14:33:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 383 A (73%), MinCell: 3606mV, MaxPackTemp: 29C
06963 02/13/2017 14:34:12 Riding PackTemp: h 30C, l 30C, PackSOC: 65%, Vpack: 95.617V, MotAmps: 103, BattAmps: 249, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 86C, CtrlTemp: 40C, AmbTemp: 23C, MotRPM:5979, Odo: 5918km
06964 02/13/2017 14:34:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 455 A (87%), MinCell: 3406mV, MaxPackTemp: 30C
06965 02/13/2017 14:34:26 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 01 00, Unknown
06966 02/13/2017 14:34:26 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x4000, Error Reg: 0x48, Sevcon Error Code: 0x4603, Data: 00 FF 00, Unknown
06967 02/13/2017 14:34:35 0x26 0x64 0x00 0x2b 0x00 0x0d 0x9e ???
06968 02/13/2017 14:34:36 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x08, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 03 46 99, Unknown
06969 02/13/2017 14:34:45 0x26 0x66 0x00 0x2a 0x00 0x0d 0x9e ???
06970 02/13/2017 14:34:55 0x26 0x65 0x00 0x28 0x00 0x0d 0x9e ???
06971 02/13/2017 14:35:11 0x26 0x64 0x00 0x24 0x00 0x00 0x00 ???
06972 02/13/2017 14:35:12 Riding PackTemp: h 33C, l 33C, PackSOC: 61%, Vpack:102.437V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 99C, CtrlTemp: 36C, AmbTemp: 22C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 5920km
06973 02/13/2017 14:35:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 394 A (75%), MinCell: 3647mV, MaxPackTemp: 33C
06974 02/13/2017 14:35:55 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x4603, Data: 00 00 00, Unknown
06975 02/13/2017 14:36:12 Riding PackTemp: h 34C, l 34C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:101.429V, MotAmps: 24, BattAmps: 31, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 93C, CtrlTemp: 39C, AmbTemp: 22C, MotRPM:4033, Odo: 5920km
06976 02/13/2017 14:36:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 433 A (83%), MinCell: 3605mV, MaxPackTemp: 34C
06977 02/13/2017 14:37:12 Riding PackTemp: h 34C, l 34C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:102.702V, MotAmps: 75, BattAmps: 27, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 78C, CtrlTemp: 33C, AmbTemp: 22C, MotRPM:1154, Odo: 5921km
06978 02/13/2017 14:37:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 486 A (93%), MinCell: 3659mV, MaxPackTemp: 34C
06979 02/13/2017 14:38:12 Riding PackTemp: h 34C, l 34C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:103.634V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 72C, CtrlTemp: 31C, AmbTemp: 23C, MotRPM: 31, Odo: 5921km
06980 02/13/2017 14:38:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 506 A (97%), MinCell: 3694mV, MaxPackTemp: 34C
06981 02/13/2017 14:39:12 Riding PackTemp: h 34C, l 34C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:102.089V, MotAmps: 62, BattAmps: 56, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 66C, CtrlTemp: 31C, AmbTemp: 23C, MotRPM:2991, Odo: 5921km
06982 02/13/2017 14:39:12 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 508 A (97%), MinCell: 3643mV, MaxPackTemp: 34C
06983 02/13/2017 14:40:12 Riding PackTemp: h 34C, l 34C, PackSOC: 57%, Vpack:101.003V, MotAmps: 38, BattAmps: 48, Mods: 11, MotTemp: 67C, CtrlTemp: 32C, AmbTemp: 23C, MotRPM:3843, Odo: 5923km
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You already contacted your dealer and zero about this, right?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I asked Zero about this issue and got a reply via the dealer, as Zero don't seem to like replying to customers.
Apparently it's definitely not a known issue with the 2016 FXS (and not why they bumped up the controller spec on the 2017s). If it happens on your FXS they will fix it under warranty. Does this just mean dialing back the power a bit? Who knows.
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In domino's log it seems the error is happening at 75% SoC. Doesn't this mean that dialing-back on the power would not help? You can see from the log that the bike is already restricting power to only 394A at this point, where it started with a max of 508A at 97% SoC...
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You already contacted your dealer and zero about this, right?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Had previously sent Email to Zero. I just sent this to my dealer (Hollywood Electrics) yesterday, and they responded right away. Unfortunately, I need to bring the bike in for diagnostics.
Since I live far from a dealer, I will have to rent a trailer and set aside a day to bring it. I also depend on the bike for daily transportation. I knew the risk going in, bit at least it's working for me while I figure out the best time to bring it in.
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You already contacted your dealer and zero about this, right?
Had previously sent Email to Zero. I just sent this to my dealer (Hollywood Electrics) yesterday, and they responded right away. Unfortunately, I need to bring the bike in for diagnostics.
Since I live far from a dealer, I will have to rent a trailer and set aside a day to bring it. I also depend on the bike for daily transportation. I knew the risk going in, bit at least it's working for me while I figure out the best time to bring it in.
That's unfortunate, but if any dealer can understand what's going on with your bike, it would be Harlan. Seriously. Good luck.
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You already contacted your dealer and zero about this, right?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Had previously sent Email to Zero. I just sent this to my dealer (Hollywood Electrics) yesterday, and they responded right away. Unfortunately, I need to bring the bike in for diagnostics.
Since I live far from a dealer, I will have to rent a trailer and set aside a day to bring it. I also depend on the bike for daily transportation. I knew the risk going in, bit at least it's working for me while I figure out the best time to bring it in.
Any update?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Maybe my english is to bad and I am misunderstanding ... but you state:
Zero knows that there is a sudden deceleration with more than 100 % regen and there is no official warning or 'recall'?
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Have you also noticed the dramatic change in SOC around the EMCY frames?
Usually the SOC decreases by 1 or 2 percent at a time.
In the first log (17th Jan), it changes promptly from 86 to 80% around the EMCY.
In the second log (13th Feb), it drops from 72 to 67% to 61%
It seems the pack voltage also drops quickly, which is certainly related to the SOC calculation, which is not only Coulomb counting.
Looks like a weird issue with the pack.
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No update yet, but that is my fault. A warranty case # has been assigned. I just need to do my part and bring the bike in.
I need to set aside a full day to bring it in, and in the meantime, I can still ride. This has only happened at >80mph at full throttle, so I know when it is at risk of happening.
I will update here when I bring it in and get results of the diagnostics.
*** Edit March 21st ***
Dropped the bike off at the dealer. It was a six hour round trip pulling a trailer. Not looking forward to another 6 hour trip in a cage, but hope I can get my bike back quickly so I can get back to commuting on it.
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Called up the dealer to ask if they'd gotten in touch with Zero. They told me they're working on it. When I pressed to know if they have talked to Zero, they put me on a brief hold and told me that one of their techs was on the phone with Zero at that moment. Quite a coincidence, if you ask me. One of my biggest concerns since before I bought the bike was that it would sit at a dealer with nothing being done.
I ride 5-6 days a week, year round, and get anxious when I don't. I hope that if they weren't actually on the phone with Zero a few minutes ago that they picked up the phone and called.
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Maybe my english is to bad and I am misunderstanding ... but you state:
Zero knows that there is a sudden deceleration with more than 100 % regen and there is no official warning or 'recall'?
The simple answer is "no".
There are clearly some owners with this issue, but I'm guessing there's a hidden variable here, like on this thread where there's a reasonable guess that a security system inadvertently interfered with the throttle signal:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6548.msg54246#msg54246 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6548.msg54246#msg54246)
Normally the bikes don't allow regen braking at all above 70mph (which can be disconcerting in other ways).
Good luck, domingo. A long trailer haul for a dealer dropoff is pretty inconvenient.
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Maybe my english is to bad and I am misunderstanding ... but you state:
Zero knows that there is a sudden deceleration with more than 100 % regen and there is no official warning or 'recall'?
The simple answer is "no".
There are clearly some owners with this issue, [...]
Just wondering ...
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My bike has no modifications. As far as I know, nobody else has had the same exact problem. The bike that had the immobilizer is a clearly different situation. If anyone else has already had a dealer look at theirs for something similar, I'd love to hear about it.
Edit March 29th
This is the longest I've gone without riding my FXS since I bought it. I have a hard imagining that the bike is doing something other than sitting in a corner of the shop when I could be riding it.
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Firmware rev. 49 Board rev. 3 Model FXS 2016 in the peak of accelerating I felt hard brake.
Happen 3 times in the past, left me all shaken.
This time I got the logs out.
07768 04/07/2017 22:33:08 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40 Sevcon Error Code: 0x46c3, Data: 0x04 0x01 0x00 , Unknown
07769 04/07/2017 22:33:18 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x 0, Error Reg: 0x00 Sevcon Error Code: 0x46c3, Data: 0x00 0x00 0x99 , Unknown
If this braking would happen while I turn, the bike will flip over.
It doesn't feel like regen breaking nor dose it feel like the engine cutting off, this feels like a full on abs peddle to the metal braking, while at top speed !
Haven't talked to the dealer yet, I really hope it's just some error with firmware.
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I understand that there is an ABS system recall in the U.S. However, I don't know if it is regard to your problem or not. And it applies to 2015 RS, S, DS and FX models: NHTSA #16V610000
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Firmware rev. 49 Board rev. 3 Model FXS 2016 in the peak of accelerating I felt hard brake.
Happen 3 times in the past, left me all shaken.
This time I got the logs out.
07768 04/07/2017 22:33:08 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40 Sevcon Error Code: 0x46c3, Data: 0x04 0x01 0x00 , Unknown
07769 04/07/2017 22:33:18 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x 0, Error Reg: 0x00 Sevcon Error Code: 0x46c3, Data: 0x00 0x00 0x99 , Unknown
If this braking would happen while I turn, the bike will flip over.
It doesn't feel like regen breaking nor dose it feel like the engine cutting off, this feels like a full on abs peddle to the metal braking, while at top speed !
Haven't talked to the dealer yet, I really hope it's just some error with firmware.
Which of the torque map modes was this, Eco / Sport / Custom ?
Was this during 100% throttle, or instead the middle of throttle range?
Any modifications to the bike or strong radio frequency sources nearby (radio transmitter) ?
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Which of the torque map modes was this, Eco / Sport / Custom ?
Was this during 100% throttle, or instead the middle of throttle range?
Any modifications to the bike or strong radio frequency sources nearby (radio transmitter) ?
Custom
100%
no modifications to the bike.
not that I know of, it happened 4 times, in different locations, I do not believe that it's about the location, but if it is, it's common.
to clarify the symptom: somewhere around top speed, while accelerating, the bike brakes, hard, for a second, or half a second. The engine stays on, there is no other symptom that I know of. after that second everything goes back to normal. first time this happened i thought I pushed the leg brake by mistake.
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I've experienced "unexpected deceleration" on my 2016 DSR, and on a loaner 2016 S. I did not know enough then to pull the MBB logs or how to look at them, and the problem has not happened on my 2016 DSR in 1000mi+ since having the bike serviced, updated, and motor recommissioned. It's scary to experience this sudden braking, for sure. I have not heard any reports yet of a crash because of this.
It is very good we have the community MBB log decoder, and that you have the log to show evidence there is some kind of error.
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Which of the torque map modes was this, Eco / Sport / Custom ?
Was this during 100% throttle, or instead the middle of throttle range?
Any modifications to the bike or strong radio frequency sources nearby (radio transmitter) ?
Custom
100%
no modifications to the bike.
not that I know of, it happened 4 times, in different locations, I do not believe that it's about the location, but if it is, it's common.
to clarify the symptom: somewhere around top speed, while accelerating, the bike brakes, hard, for a second, or half a second. The engine stays on, there is no other symptom that I know of. after that second everything goes back to normal. first time this happened i thought I pushed the leg brake by mistake.
This sounds just like what I experienced. I notice in your logs you have the same 0x46c3 code that I had. I don't know what code means or if it's an indicator of the problem, but the symptoms you describe are the same.
I brought my bike to a dealer and it was diagnosed as a faulty motor. I am waiting for a new motor now.
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This sounds just like what I experienced. I notice in your logs you have the same 0x46c3 code that I had. I don't know what code means or if it's an indicator of the problem, but the symptoms you describe are the same.
I brought my bike to a dealer and it was diagnosed as a faulty motor. I am waiting for a new motor now.
oh shi... I really hope this is not the case with my bike :(
it's holidays now in Israel, I will go to the dealer next week and see what happens.
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This sounds just like what I experienced. I notice in your logs you have the same 0x46c3 code that I had. I don't know what code means or if it's an indicator of the problem, but the symptoms you describe are the same.
I brought my bike to a dealer and it was diagnosed as a faulty motor. I am waiting for a new motor now.
oh shi... I really hope this is not the case with my bike :(
it's holidays now in Israel, I will go to the dealer next week and see what happens.
Because the throttle signal goes right to the Sevcon, the symptoms seem still consistent with a throttle electrical fault. Anyway, I'd hope that's all it is.
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This sounds just like what I experienced. I notice in your logs you have the same 0x46c3 code that I had. I don't know what code means or if it's an indicator of the problem, but the symptoms you describe are the same.
I brought my bike to a dealer and it was diagnosed as a faulty motor. I am waiting for a new motor now.
oh shi... I really hope this is not the case with my bike :(
it's holidays now in Israel, I will go to the dealer next week and see what happens.
Because the throttle signal goes right to the Sevcon, the symptoms seem still consistent with a throttle electrical fault. Anyway, I'd hope that's all it is.
What signal could the throttle send to induce 500% regen? Isn't the throttle essentially a rheostat with closed=0, wide open= max, or am I simplifying too much?
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This sounds just like what I experienced. I notice in your logs you have the same 0x46c3 code that I had. I don't know what code means or if it's an indicator of the problem, but the symptoms you describe are the same.
I brought my bike to a dealer and it was diagnosed as a faulty motor. I am waiting for a new motor now.
oh shi... I really hope this is not the case with my bike :(
it's holidays now in Israel, I will go to the dealer next week and see what happens.
Because the throttle signal goes right to the Sevcon, the symptoms seem still consistent with a throttle electrical fault. Anyway, I'd hope that's all it is.
What signal could the throttle send to induce 500% regen? Isn't the throttle essentially a rheostat with closed=0, wide open= max, or am I simplifying too much?
It's 0-5kOhm, but basically that simple: https://www.evdrives.com/product_p/thr-magura-assy.htm (https://www.evdrives.com/product_p/thr-magura-assy.htm)
I'm suggesting it has some kind of fault, maybe shorting to ground. I'm not sure about that at all, just that it seems sufficient to explain the log entry and the (scary) outcome.
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What signal could the throttle send to induce 500% regen? Isn't the throttle essentially a rheostat with closed=0, wide open= max, or am I simplifying too much?
It's 0-5kOhm, but basically that simple: https://www.evdrives.com/product_p/thr-magura-assy.htm (https://www.evdrives.com/product_p/thr-magura-assy.htm)
I'm suggesting it has some kind of fault, maybe shorting to ground. I'm not sure about that at all, just that it seems sufficient to explain the log entry and the (scary) outcome.
Thanks. I still don't see how a throttle fault could explain any more than coasting or "100%" regen, if that's what custom mode was programmed with. Can you share your thought process?
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What signal could the throttle send to induce 500% regen? Isn't the throttle essentially a rheostat with closed=0, wide open= max, or am I simplifying too much?
It's 0-5kOhm, but basically that simple: https://www.evdrives.com/product_p/thr-magura-assy.htm (https://www.evdrives.com/product_p/thr-magura-assy.htm)
I'm suggesting it has some kind of fault, maybe shorting to ground. I'm not sure about that at all, just that it seems sufficient to explain the log entry and the (scary) outcome.
Thanks. I still don't see how a throttle fault could explain any more than coasting or "100%" regen, if that's what custom mode was programmed with. Can you share your thought process?
Thanks for asking, because I was just trying to identify something easy to troubleshoot that was consistent with some kind of error. In other words, it felt like a plausible lead.
I went and scanned the Sevcon gen4 manual for any meaning that 46c3 might indicate, and the 4600 range means a motor measurement IF the CAN code in your logs corresponds to the debug variables (section 7 near the end). OR 46c3 refers to one of the analog input lines per the Wire-Off Detection section on 6-15.
For the latter, there's some allowable voltage range, and maybe there's a hard shutdown feature if it's out of range. And the throttle is an analog input, though I don't know which it's assigned to aside from there really not being many. 2-10 indicates that the analog throttle input would get this protection. 2-12 lists a set of fault levels that might be relevant but don't operate the way you described.
The idea that an electrical fault could result in a high side is definitely concerning.
It would be very helpful if your dealer can reproduce the issue on a controlled stand. One can hope, anyway.
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Thanks for the explanation. Neither the dealer nor Zero have shared anything about their troubleshooting process, beyond that they've identified excessive faults in the logs, did some online diagnostics and have decided to replace the motor. I suspect that they did not attempt to reproduce the error on a stand as you suggested. I can only hope that they know what they're doing. I don't want to think about the error coming back again after I pick up the bike and having to go through the process multiple times. A month without my bike is already way too long.
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My wife's 2016 S just lost throttle while on the highway. Dash said 0 MPH and the running light was flashing. No overheat warning or reduction in power, just total propulsion lost. Pulling over and rebooting fixed it. Seems different from what everyone else here is experiencing. Hopefully Zero will start start replying to my E-mails again.
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My wife's 2016 S just lost throttle while on the highway. Dash said 0 MPH and the running light was flashing. No overheat warning or reduction in power, just total propulsion lost. Pulling over and rebooting fixed it. Seems different from what everyone else here is experiencing. Hopefully Zero will start start replying to my E-mails again.
That sounds more like a known Sevcon protection feature that is listed in their manual (page 2-10 as I listed above).
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Waiting outside the dealer now so I can pick up my bike. It's been just over a month. Communication has been less than stellar, but this is not the dealer that I purchased from. Not sure if that should be an excuse or not. Each time I called, they coincidentally were just finishing something with the bile right when I called. If I was closer and could stop by every day, maybe it would be dome sooner.
Now to check out the bike for damage and then ride it to make sure the problem is resolved. Will update once I get some miles in and check the logs.
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Look for loose or missing fasteners and new scratches :( (was my experience when I picked-up my bike after a month in the shop, luckily the core of the repair worked and has been trouble-free thereafter).
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People at the dealer were friendly. They gave me the bike back, but no documentation of what was tested or what the repairs were other than a verbal that the motor was replaced. Is this normal, or should I have something? When I asked about it, they said they could give me a copy of the receipt when Zero paid the bill. They mentioned, probably a bit frustrated, that the bill was about $2000, and they expected to wait about six months to be paid, because "Zero likes to take their time".
I looked around in the logs, and can see when the bike was powered on. The only days the bike was powered on were March 22nd and April 20th. I dropped off the bike on March 21st. On March 22nd, it was powered on and tested for about an hour in the morning, sat idle for about four hours, and then tested again for about two hours. I called on March 23rd to get a status, and they said they were coincidentally talking to Zero at the moment I called. They didn't tell me that they had connected with Zero the day before for remote testing, which actually would have been a message that I would have appreciated. I was told on April 11th that Zero was shipping a new motor. On April 20th, the bike was powered on for about two hours. When I called on April 25th, they said they were just finishing up with Zero that day and my bike would be ready to pick up. I realize that they could certainly be working on things without the bike powered up, but it's interesting to be able to see the logs and fit that in with what I was told of the progress.
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People at the dealer were friendly. They gave me the bike back, but no documentation of what was tested or what the repairs were other than a verbal that the motor was replaced. Is this normal, or should I have something? When I asked about it, they said they could give me a copy of the receipt when Zero paid the bill. They mentioned, probably a bit frustrated, that the bill was about $2000, and they expected to wait about six months to be paid, because "Zero likes to take their time".
Normal or not, this doesn't make a good relationship between the dealer and the OEM or you. That's lame. A good service department will educate you on your bike, even on a basic level.
One thing I've always done (although I'm sure I learned it from someone) with motorcycles to test a dealer's service department is to check the bike in with a minor problem that I don't mention, and see whether they bring it up. If they do, that's when I start to trust them. Otherwise, I'll try to ask innocuous questions that carefully check what they actually did. Try to act like a student or at least sympathetic and get around any defensiveness. Not that it always works, but some interaction needs to be productive to get return business.
I looked around in the logs, and can see when the bike was powered on. The only days the bike was powered on were March 22nd and April 20th. I dropped off the bike on March 21st. On March 22nd, it was powered on and tested for about an hour in the morning, sat idle for about four hours, and then tested again for about two hours. I called on March 23rd to get a status, and they said they were coincidentally talking to Zero at the moment I called. They didn't tell me that they had connected with Zero the day before for remote testing, which actually would have been a message that I would have appreciated. I was told on April 11th that Zero was shipping a new motor. On April 20th, the bike was powered on for about two hours. When I called on April 25th, they said they were just finishing up with Zero that day and my bike would be ready to pick up. I realize that they could certainly be working on things without the bike powered up, but it's interesting to be able to see the logs and fit that in with what I was told of the progress.
Maybe this is why the version of the log parser that you can run on your mobile phone's web browser (https://github.com/zero-motorcycle-community/browser-parse (https://github.com/zero-motorcycle-community/browser-parse)) is so important: because you can check on their work before leaving or signing for the bike.