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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: RickSteeb on April 12, 2018, 08:48:44 PM
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https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2018/04/12/2012-zero-motorcycles-recall-218-models-recalled-for-potential-short-fire/
Been thinking I should try & sell my 2012 DS... looks like Zero may buy it back! :o
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Well, that is a real shocker! :o But only 218 units being called? I am pretty sure that Zero made more than that in 2012. ??? I hope the bike that I gave my daughter is covered by the recall. Now that she has my old 2014 S, she really doesn't need the 2012 and wanted to sell it on the open market - not an easy thing to do, of course. It would be a lot easier for her if SF Moto drove up to her home in Marin County, picked the bike up and gave her a check from Zero. That would help to clear out a little space in her garage too - as well as pay for a quarter's worth of a meal plan for the daughter who is attending UCLA and will soon be finishing her education at the Fri University in Berlin. :)
This recall is really going to cost Zero a bunch of bucks. Not only are they going to have to buy the bikes back (maybe $2K?), but paying a dealer to drive who knows how far to pick up a bike is not going to be cheap, either. Then the bikes will have to be shipped back to the factory and ultimately dismantled and recycled in some way.
I kind of wonder what happens to the 100 units sold to Columbia in December 2012 and the 57 leftover units sold to Hong Kong the following year?
It is expensive to be a vehicle manufacturer nowadays, especially when you are just a small fish in a big pond surrounded by lawyers and government regulators with big teeth. :(
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That Hong Kong police contract has been quite a headache for Zero. I think they had an issue with the original specs of the bike saying that the motors must have closed cases, rather than the open case of Zero's motors at the time. So they ended up replacing the motors on all the bikes. Then, one caught fire due to a short, and they all got taken out of service.
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-crime/article/1993350/electric-motorcycles-belonging-hong-kong-police-catch-fire
I'm wondering if the recall wasn't a result of the Hong Kong situation. But you're right Richard, it's an expensive problem for a small fish like Zero.
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Just wish this recall happened BEFORE I spent $1500 on a BMS circuit board a couple of months ago... awaiting their buy-back (or trade-in) offer with great interest!
Timing... Zero offered a liberal trade-in on the 2012 models just AFTER I bought my 2013 FX... :/
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Hi Electric Motorcycle Forum,
As a community of Zero motorcycle owners, we want you to be among the first to know about a recall on certain 2012 motorcycles that NHTSA officially published today. The recall only affects model year 2012 Zero S, Zero DS and Zero DSP models. The official recall notice is posted here:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?nhtsaId=18V215
If you own a Zero that is any model year or model aside from the 2012 Zero S, Zero DS and Zero DSP models, then you will not be affected by this recall. If you do own one of these affected models, and we have your info on file, then you should be receiving an official letter from us. We are coordinating with NHTSA on finalizing the official customer notification letter and will mail these no later than April 30. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please email us in North America at 2012-recall-na@zeromotorcycles.com or in Europe at 2012-recall-eu@zeromotorcycles.com. We appreciate your commitment to Zero over the last 11 years of riding. Specific to our owners of 2012 Zero S, DS and DSP models, you were among the earliest adopters of our motorcycles and are a critical part of the electric motorcycle movement. We remain committed to providing the best service possible to our consumers and are working to make the recall process as simple and straightforward for you as possible.
Sincerely,
Chris Langlois
Zero Motorcycles Customer Experience Team
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Thanks Chris, I will pass that information on to my daughter who now owns my old 2012 ZF9 Zero S, manufactured in December 2011, if I recall correctly.
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I hope they offer more than $2000 dollars for them. The cheapest I have seen one advertised at is $4500 on cycle trader at the moment. I am in the UK and they are very rare over here I own a 2012 ZF9. We are not so strong on legal corrections over here but I believe this is a world wide recall. I enjoy mine very much it only has 6000 miles on it. A huge price difference to a new one from trade in value.
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I think its best to trade them all in at this point towards a newer model Zero. I'm not sure if the Hong Kong situation a couple years ago is related, but it only makes sense it could be. That being said, take caution if you still own one perhaps. All I would say is email Zero at the address posted right away and see what they say. For most 2012 owners this should be actually viewed as a good opportunity to upgrade to a newer bike. It's unfortunate for Zero, but perhaps best for them and their customers overall in the long run to get lots of legacy bikes off the road and just focus on 2013 and up models which are all basically the same platform and frame and bodywork. I say that but it does not affect any 2010 and 2011 bikes that might still be out there, just 2012 S and DS models. Well DSP models too, but I don't think that relates to any of us here but might.
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Wow, wild news.
When they offered to buy back the 2010/11/12 bikes for trade-in-credit on 2014's they were offering $8000 for a S/DS9 and $6000 for a S/DS6. Of course "trade-in-credit" is not cash; and that was years ago.
According to the VIN ranges listed, they made about 800 bikes in 2012, so I guess we have about a 1-in-4 chance of owning one of the affected ones.
It also makes me wonder: Even if your bike isen't listed in the recall, should you trust it? I charge mine in a garage, and a fire while charging would be a real mess.
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According to the VIN ranges listed, they made about 800 bikes in 2012, so I guess we have about a 1-in-4 chance of owning one of the affected ones.
The document states that the VIN's are non-sequential and I understand why now. I don't believe there are any 2 bikes out there with the same last 5 digits. But different models could have a different previous sequence. For instance 538SM**CCA00001 or 538SD**CCB00001, either could be the case, but not both. So they would skip numbers if the last 5 digits were used with a different model. That's why you can't add them up. NHTSA calls this non-sequential.
Also I don't think the NHTSA recall identifies all bikes in Europe and Worldwide, just North America. So that is why it's 218 bikes on the list and not more.
So instead of there being a 1 in 4 or 25% chance your 2012 Zero S, DS or DSP is affected, I think it is closer to 100%.
But email Zero to double check and they can tell you for sure.
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Oh! I see what you're saying Terry, thanks for pointing that out. So I guess they only sold ~200 bikes (in the US) back in 2012. Hmmm.
I did email Chris and he said quit riding immediately, so I guess now there's nothing to do until we get the official offer from Zero on "repurchase/trade in".
Kindof sad. I've grown attached to my 2012, one of the reasons I turned down the 2014 trade-in offer. I've done a fair amount of repair on it over the years, and kept it garaged so it's really in floor room condition - aside from some battery capacity loss.
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I spoke to my daughter about the recall and she said that there is nothing wrong with her Zero and she likes riding the 2012 as much as riding the 2014 model. (She tends to get emotionally attached to her motorcycles.) I told her to not ride the bike, contact Zero and wait for their letter. But she says that the bike is now over 6 years old and has never had a problem so she doesn't see what the issue is. ??? I have a feeling that Zero is going to have trouble recalling and accounting for all of the 218 Zeros on their list.
Personally if it was still my bike, I would be happy to sell it back to Zero as (you may have discovered) selling an old Zero on the open market, or trading it on to a dealer for another brand is not the easiest thing to do. :( I always say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. ;)
In a slightly similar story: Yamaha sold a bunch of 49-state legal first-year 2001 FZ1 bikes in California (a big expensive no-no here), apparently by mistake. Some CA regulator found out about that issue and ordered Yamaha to recall all 2001 models immediately. Yamaha sent out official recall notices to the registered owners and told them that they could not ride the bikes and had to sell them back to Yamaha. I was on the FZ1 forum at the time and apparently most California owners blew them off and kept riding the bikes anyway. I expected that CA would refuse to register the non-conforming bikes when their registrations came up, but if that ever happened, I never heard about it on the forum. Somehow the entire recall matter just faded away. ???
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Richard, I can totally understand where she is coming from. Not a single problem in 6 years so why the recall? Where unlike the Yamaha recall of 2001, where there were just bikes out there that didn't meet California's environmental requirements, this is very different.
If you read the public recall notice Chris linked above, you will see it is not a thing you can choose to ignore. Click the NHTSA link above, and read the attached documents to see why this is important to follow.
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Richard, I can totally understand where she is coming from. Not a single problem in 6 years so why the recall? Where unlike the Yamaha recall of 2001, where there were just bikes out there that didn't meet California's environmental requirements, this is very different.
If you read the public recall notice Chris linked above, you will see it is not a thing you can choose to ignore. Click the NHTSA link above, and read the attached documents to see why this is important to follow.
I agree, Terry. I think the news was just a shock to my daughter and it will take a little time to sink in. Right now she is dealing with other things and didn't really want another issue dumped on her tray. I'll talk to her further about the recall after I do a little more research.
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https://zeromanual.com/index.php/Recalls now tracks this.
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Well, that is a real shocker! :o But only 218 units being called? I am pretty sure that Zero made more than that in 2012. ???
I'd have thought so, but the NHTSA notice linked to the Zero post above says "all" (not the SR or FX, however).
I hope the bike that I gave my daughter is covered by the recall.
Hoping for you too.
And that this doesn't end up being a heavy burden on Zero. It's at least encouraging that 2013-2018 bikes aren't affected.
Recurring stories like this (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7661.msg65846#msg65846) and this (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7846.0) make me more and more hesitant that an e-bike is in my near future, quite aside from the major insufficient range for day trips issue.
Living in a country where the Zero importer is also the single (tiny) dealer every issue would be major.
None of the major brands offer good service, but being bikeless for a month isn't an option, given this would be my only bike.
Bikes cost a lot here; even with the lower Customs duty for EVs, a 2017 Zero S ZF16.3 costs $26100 (the importer doesn't have the 2018 models yet).
The e-motorcycle market absolutely needs a major-vendor entrant, and I mean for broad appeal road or dual-purpose bikes, not tiny range aggressive offroad models.
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From Ride Apart, maybe there is hope Zero might repair the bikes?
"Affected owners will be notified by Zero, and the company is giving customers the option to have their machines fixed, or bought back—including a financial trade-assist program towards a newer model year Zero."
https://rideapart.com/articles/2012-zero-motorcycles-battery-recall (https://rideapart.com/articles/2012-zero-motorcycles-battery-recall)
...and.. .LOL, this is even more optimistic:
"Zero is offering to replace all the 2012 models with a brand-new Zero, if that’s what the customer wants."
https://canadamotoguide.com/2018/04/13/zero-issues-recall-buy-back-on-some-2012-models/ (https://canadamotoguide.com/2018/04/13/zero-issues-recall-buy-back-on-some-2012-models/)
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I found this statement in the rideapart article interesting:
This recall/buyback is expected to cost Zero a massive amount of money. Fortunately the company has ample funding and has recently inked multiple deals with other OEMS.
I am not putting any money on this statement in the canadamotoguide article. I really don't see that happening. I wonder what those guys are smoking up north? : Zero is offering to replace all the 2012 models with a brand-new Zero, if that’s what the customer wants.
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"Zero is offering to replace all the 2012 models with a brand-new Zero, if that’s what the customer wants."
https://canadamotoguide.com/2018/04/13/zero-issues-recall-buy-back-on-some-2012-models/ (https://canadamotoguide.com/2018/04/13/zero-issues-recall-buy-back-on-some-2012-models/)
Lol I have no idea how they came up with that, unless they thought it was a April fools joke because they've been smoking weed and drinking Molson for 2 weeks and lost track of time. ;D
My guess is there will be an incentive to get a new bike perhaps in the form of $1000-$1500 more than the cash trade in fair market value price. So if you ask for a cash buyback perhaps $2500-$3500, but if you trade it in on a 2018 Zero you might get up to $5000 towards that. Just a guess we will have to see. It might turn out to be exactly the same, although I would think there should be some incentive to keep the rider on a Zero somehow.
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So if you ask for a cash buyback perhaps $2500-$3500...
Where did you get your cash buyback estimate?
KBB gives $4160 (trade-in) and $6040 (retail) for a 2012 SZF9.
2012 SZF6: $3495 (trade-in) and $5080 (retail).
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It was just an estimate I guessed based on what I thought someone on this forum would have bought one for to find the true market value. But your number is probably more accurate.
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Please Terry do not ever publish your estimates of the refund we may expect again, ruined the start to my day. Zero need to be way north of your figures when they are dealing with about 100 unhappy owners. Is your lovely dog worth less as she is not a puppy any more. Most of the 2012 models will be low mileage toys used for fun. I ask all affected owners to log on and copy prices of 2012 models for sale so Zero cannot lowball us. It is such a huge gulf from a used Zero to a new 2018 model very generous trade in deals are needed. Zero could turn this PR disaster into a positive if they act fairly and offer good deals. A hundred happy people a lot better than an angry mob. Please contact me even though I am in the UK as we will need to be united as a team to get a fair deal. I know I cannot afford £10000 to upgrade to a 2018. I think Zeros are great especially when not trying to roast your nuts as you ride along. The one in seventy odds of a motorcycle BBQ mean I am not riding and my insurance is probably invalid. I hope they move quickly on this I need my bike to be on the road.
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Keith, I understand where you're coming from. But you're kidding yourself - Zero surely made the decision on compensation weeks ago, already approved and agreed to by their financial and lawyer folk. The offer will be what it is and there is nothing we can do at this point to influence it. Terry's estimate freaks me out too, he's an insider and has the pulse of the e-moto industry - he may be spot on.
When we get the offer letter next week, we'll know then. Speculatively, I doubt repair will be an option and even if Zero offered 'retail' KBB values, that's only half what a '18 SZF7.2 list price is. Used (MY13+ S/DS) models on Craigslist are $10k +/-. So as you observed, it's likely 2012 owners will go from having a working electric motorcycle to having a check that isn't near enough to buy a working electric motorcycle.
That said, most of us got 6 good years out of our bikes. The expensive available replacements are expensive for a reason - they have more power, more battery, more features, better components (shocks, brakes, etc) and less mileage. We must temper our expectations on what we are 'owed' with these facts.
The hard reality is this is a crappy lose-lose situation. Give Zero credit for doing the right thing: not hiding/dismissing the issue, instead offering up compensation and taking unsafe bikes off the road - they are a small company and this is certainly a huge burden to them, too.
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Give Zero credit for doing the right thing: not hiding/dismissing the issue, instead offering up compensation and taking unsafe bikes off the road - they are a small company and this is certainly a huge burden to them, too.
My conspiracy theory friend believes that this is the reason they had that "trade up" program a couple years ago. Get as many off the road as possible before they have to go public about the issue.
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I guess you are correct and I mean no disrespect to Terry who is on the ball, it is just an unhappy situation. I just started using mine to get to work each day and love it in eco mode as I am a new rider, it was a cheap way to get to work. I hope we are offered a fair price and quick payment so I can source another bike. May have peddles if compensation not very good, get me fit.
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Here is another article about the recall with a few more details, including reports of two more instances of fires. These occurred in the U.S.
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2018/04/16/recall-2/zero-buying-back-2012-ds-models-because-of-fire-risk/
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Remember guys I am one of those 218 Zero owners with a 2012, I just don't ride it anymore and retired it after 78,000 miles. I ride the 2015 everyday and it is an amazing motorcycle.
And yes, I'm sure Zero made their decision on pricing a long time ago to budget for the recall, and paperwork is already prepared. So nothing said here will have any effect on anything, that I am certain of.
In all honesty, for those of us who love Zero's, a month before the recall, if you had $5000 in the bank and needed a bike, would you have bought another 2012 Zero if it was listed for $4995 at your local dealer?
if yes, then we have a fair market price. If no, then ask yourself why. There should be a price where most of us would buy another 2012, even if we thought that it was underpriced and we could sell it later at a higher price. Or to recommend it to a friend or family member as a good value. What price would you recommend your best friend to buy one?
I would like to see the buyback price high also for everyone's benefit, but I also know a fact that affects everyone. Most people think their stuff is worth more than the average other person thinks their stuff is. Surely everyone knows what I mean and have seen this too. Hopefully Zero will surprise everyone with an offer that is higher than we all expect. But I don't want anyone to be disappointed by getting a false idea either.
I would like to see some extra incentive for all people who will upgrade to a 2018, but for those who can't afford it, there needs to be an ability to upgrade to used bike in their dealer network from 2013 to 2017 also I would hope, although I would think the incentive would be more on a new 2018 bike. Although I don't know how recalls work and perhaps everything has to be equal. I literally have no idea how all this works and am just guessing.
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So I just checked Cycle Trader and I do think perhaps i estimated a little low. Although remember when you see prices on cycle trader, these are the bikes which are NOT selling, lol! I have sometimes followed the same bike for sale for years as the dealer is just asking too much and can't see it. They always lower their prices the next year, but are always behind.
This link may not work for long:
https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Zero-Motorcycles-S-ZF6-122362346
Check this 2012 Zero ZF6 for sale for $4695. Look at the picture, it has a tag that says $8321. How long do you think they have had this bike as a trade in?
I always tell people when trying to sell a used Zero so they can upgrade, list your bike for less than you think its worth so it sells quick. You really want to be the best priced Zero in the country for that year. I have hundreds of friends who have had Zero's and try to upgrade, and I tell everyone to take the dealer trade in price, even if you think it's too low. The ones who don't sometimes don't sell their bike for 2 years or ever as they somehow keep thinking their bike is worth more than any single willing buyer does. Let the dealer take that risk and sit on the bike for a year or two or more. No need for you to do that.
But I do think I was off a little and will revise my estimate to be $3750 to $5250, with perhaps an extra $1000-$1500 incentive direct from Zero (separate from the official recall) to those 2012 owners who upgrade to a 2018. So the recall should reflect the fair market value regardless of if you take a cash buyback or not so it is fair. And then I would think Zero would incentivize it to get a new bike within 90 days or so. But I don't know they may not do that. It just seems logical that they would, right? But again just a guess and I have no idea I might be wrong and there is a reason I don't understand on why they can't do this.
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As someone who has traded-in about 35 motorcycles on new models over the years, I have no illusions what trade-ins are worth when selling to a dealer. You typically get about 20 or 30% less than what the dealer thinks your bike will be worth as a quick resale on the open market. So I tend to be kind of pessimistic when it comes to the value of used motorcycles - and that goes (at least) double for something like an electric motorcycle that has a very limited market.
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Terry carry on and write another insert your numbers are going up each time, I like that. You are more realistic now with the values but it still sucks. I do not like to find out the delay between the incidents and it coming to light and the recall. I know investigations/ reports/ meetings but we could have been injured/ killed/ properties damaged. Zero is a small company who should react quicker and be more open and honest. I still want to vent. My Volvo V90 is 21 years old 179000 miles cost £30000 new now worth £1000 or so but it is still mint and years off scrapping.No way I would pay the £40000 for a new one. All those complex bits in the Volvo still work. A simple battery not made correctly, recalled due to moisture ingress previously, allowed to have loose pouches are Zero really to be taken as the market leaders. Electric no vibration/ smooth the adds say but the cells rub against the housing and we end up here. If its all been sorted all ready and all meetings been had publish the deal and let us get on and source our replacement bikes. Publish on here or facebook we would all known within a few hours. The prices of the advertised bikes were what they were selling for. Not all of us Zero owners can have £14000 toys some of us used them as cheap transport. I had accepted degrading cell capacity not shoddy manufacture. The battery is the bike, it accounts for a huge proportion of the cost of the bike. Its terrible to see how inside the shiny black box these early batteries were made. Look up on YouTube to see them stripped down for rebuilding. Look at recalls due to poor crimped connectors. Then look at the promotional Zero adverts see if the two go together. 6000 miles my ZF9 has done 1000 per year and now scrap, costing me money on insurance whilst I cannot ride it. If all is sorted already publish the offer now.
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Hi Keith
You have a right to rant, this situation does suck.
My Volvo V90 is 21 years old 179000 miles cost £30000 new now worth £1000 or so but it is still mint and years off scrapping.No way I would pay the £40000 for a new one.
I think this is similar to if some lady hit your Volvo and totaled it. Perhaps she was even negligent, driving recklessly, drunk and talking on her mobile. No question, completely the lady's fault that your Volvo is now unusable. Even so no one would expect the lady's insurance (or the lady) to buy you a £40000 new Volvo. No, you would get a check for £1000, and you would be without a Volvo. A sucky situation.
Not all of us Zero owners can have £14000 toys some of us used them as cheap transport.
I'm with you on this one. Terry is a bit of a optimistic cheerleader for the e-moto industry. He's trying to put a positive spin on this, which might work for a 2012 owner that has $$$ and was thinking about buying a new Zero anyway. But for some of us, that's not an option, which is why I'm sad there is no 'repair' option. We're going to be left a relatively small check and no motorcycle.
And you're in the UK, I don't know how the NTSHA recall applies there. Have you sent Chris an email asking about the details on how this recall will affect you? That might be advisable.
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My beef is that this a manufacturers fault on the main part of the bike, the part Zero assemble in house themselves. Not a problem with the cells its how they were assembled and packaged. We will get what we get I could do with knowing sooner if it is all decided already. I love electric bikes my Zero is my second one but there is an issue on customer service/ quality of manufacture, too many negative posts/ problems around for me. Wait until 2018 models get a recall as I am sure they will, lets hear all the Zero flag wavers then. I know we are willing to put up with a bit of crap when dealing with a low volume producer but would a Honda/ Harley/ BMW bike get written off at 6000 miles. What statement have Zero made to individual owners I had nothing. Little Honda cub scooters were abused for decades carrying entire families/ animals/ half a house in climates all over the world but could go on for thirty years doing so. New modern firm, modern tools equipment, best brains, lots of investment and Zero could not make batteries that do not ignite. Maybe a rebrand to Ronson is in order.
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My beef is that this a manufacturers fault on the main part of the bike, the part Zero assemble in house themselves. Not a problem with the cells its how they were assembled and packaged. We will get what we get I could do with knowing sooner if it is all decided already. I love electric bikes my Zero is my second one but there is an issue on customer service/ quality of manufacture, too many negative posts/ problems around for me. Wait until 2018 models get a recall as I am sure they will, lets hear all the Zero flag wavers then. I know we are willing to put up with a bit of crap when dealing with a low volume producer but would a Honda/ Harley/ BMW bike get written off at 6000 miles. What statement have Zero made to individual owners I had nothing. Little Honda cub scooters were abused for decades carrying entire families/ animals/ half a house in climates all over the world but could go on for thirty years doing so. New modern firm, modern tools equipment, best brains, lots of investment and Zero could not make batteries that do not ignite. Maybe a rebrand to Ronson is in order.
I hate to tell you this, but after manufacturing motorcycles for around 95 years, BMW still has all sorts of mechanical issues with all of their models, some more than others. I have owned 8 BMW's since 1985 and my first one, a 1985 R80 blew out its engine's rocker bearing cages on both sides of the engine at 4K miles, which then had to be rebuilt under warranty. My 1991 K100RS broke its driveshaft at 48K miles, destroying the entire inside of the swingarm. Every one of my BMW bikes have had problems, just not all that serious. Fortunately, every problem that occurred during the warranty period was quickly resolved by my BMW dealer without any cost to me. However, internet reports have indicated less positive outcomes from many other BMW customers. So, even a huge multi-billion dollar corporation like BMW can have issues with their bikes. But I will agree, that the way the customer (and dealer) is treated by the manufacturer can make an unpleasant experience much better - or much worse.
The last BMW "don't ride" issue occurred a few years ago when the WC R1200RT was first introduced. After BMW sold about 8000 of these things, they discovered that the rear shock shaft was defective and could break while the bike was being ridden. They immediately contacted all of their customers and told them to not ride the bikes until the shock could be replaced by their dealer - which was going to take a while due to the shock manufacturer's schedule to make 8000 new components. Since this was during the summer, BMW offered their customers the option to have their dealer provide another BMW as a loaner to ride until their bike could be repaired, or they would buy the bike back for what their customer paid for it, or they would offer something like $5000 cash if the customer just parked the bike until it could be repaired and rode one of their other motorcycles during the summer. If you are a big company with lots of resources, you can do something like this. Unfortunately, the Italian shock manufacturer who screwed up had to file for bankruptcy and dropped out of sight for a year, until they could be financially reorganized, as BMW pinned that expensive tail on that donkey.
Unfortunately for us, Zero doesn't have those kind of resources and apparently no longer has any business relationship with EIG, the company that made the battery cells, so they are stuck with the problem and coming up with a solution on their dime. I give them credit for doing the best (in my opinion) that that they can to get the bikes off the road. Of course, we still need to see what the buyback offer will be and no doubt that will generate a lot of further discussion. ;)
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Problem is with the way the cells have been fitted not the cells. Zero had millions invested according to the media and surely have a good profit on their bikes prices. I am not looking to gain I just do not want to get shafted or other Zero riders. I am sorry but if you sell a motorcycle you have to sell a product that will not endanger the life of the user. All you on here leaping to Zeros defence where is the company spokesperson following these discussions and informing us of what is being done. I have not seen one comment from Zero in the media/ online forums. I think insider favourites are being nudged to put across Zeros side and put a positive spin on things. Zero sold defective goods that could quite realistically cost lives. It is your government body that made them act. Enough with the pro Zero point of view I have a bike I cannot use costing me money and they have not let us know what is happening. Issue the letters and refund offer ASAP. Five year battery warranty! 300000 miles life! Build us a new battery to fit in the battery case and I am one happy man as long as it happened quickly. You are the largest manufacturing country in the world. Look at the amazing things your country can accomplish. Zero making out their bikes are hightec and the future keep your eye on the quality and basis also. Please! Whinging Pom having a rant as it is a free world. Again I only ask to be kept informed, action occurs ASAP and a fair compensation for the loss of my Pristine bike with only 6000 miles on it.
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If there were 8000 2012 Zero S/DS's on the road like BMW and their shock, it might be worth designing a new holder, testing it, and fixing the 2012 battery. But not for 218 of them. You don't have to be able to buy a new 2018 either, just get a 2013 or 2014 and hopefully there will be some sort of "trade assist" that helps you get on another Zero vs just giving you a cash buyout. I assume that would be highest on a 2018, but perhaps on used Zero's in their network too.
Check out this link again:
https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Zero-Motorcycles-S-ZF6-122362346
This is a NEW 2012 ZF6!! Lol, they kept lowering the price obviously, year after year, but never fast enough so were always behind. So all this tells be is that a brand new ZF6 does not have a fair market value of $4600. Whether a dollar less or $2000 less I don't know, but somehow no one bought this. And for a used ZF6? Less but not much less. I hope Zero can work with you guys Keith and ColoPaul to get on a 2013 or up Zero.
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https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Zero-Motorcycles-S-ZF6-122362346
hmm.. if I could talk them down to less than the Zero trade-in program amount...
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Terry you keep on downplaying the value of a 2012 Zero, are you linked to the Zero company in some way. I will be realistic in my expectations but this is not a sale situation. This is a company recall of an entire years production due to a major production flaw. I do not know the final figures have been decided yet and feel you have too much of an interest in using your stature in the community to lower our expectations. There are no used Zeros for sale in the UK its a tiny market over here. There is no way I would be selling my 2012 as it is in mint condition not a mark on it, never dropped, immaculate wheels, runs perfectly. I can only have an 11kw Zero in the UK on L plates as I am a new rider on a CBT ( learners permit sort of thing only allowed 125cc ) I will go again would you trade your dog in for a newer puppy. My 2012 is as powerful a bike as I want just had Givi panniers/ topbox, Puig screen, 12v supply, new tyres, LED running lights and rear shock 6000 miles it would have lasted me years. We will get what we get but I resent you banging on about how little they are worth. I have copies of other 2012 for sale the day of the recall announcement $7,500 Austin Texas, $6,900 Mountain View, CA, $6,500 Ellenton, FL. The bike you are referring to is not new it has 4175 miles on it is a ZF6 not a ZF9 like mine and was on sale from Ottumwa, IA. Go and tell your buddies back at Zero that was the askig prices of Zero 2012 on the day of the announcement that they cocked up and learned they could not make a safe vehicle. If you want to keep putting down the 2012 models or have a vested interest in doing so at least get your facts right. I am not a farmer but I can smell BS.
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Note that the only reason I still have my '12 DS ZF6 is that when I bought my 2014 SR, in May of that year, the trade-in offer was $4000. I felt its value was significantly more than that, so I kept it... Subsequently, when I was looking to buy a 2015 FX, the (different) dealer was only offering me $2500. Givi's and all.
I don't think Terry is attempting to lower the perceived value of the thing! Given the mileage he put on HIS 2012 unit, I'd personally assess the actual hazard of a battery-related "thermal event" to be *TRIVIAL* next to the risks of driving it in traffic! (full disclosure-- I broke my leg when I dropped mine, turning on an oily street corner while going ~10MPH)
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Seems like the press was notified ~Apr 12. Zero promised to mail offer letters to owners Apr 30. It seems like a very long time to me, but in the corporate world it's probably not even noticed. I think I can see the writing on the wall, but until we hear from Zero this is all conjecture.
Chris Langlois from Zero posted on this thread (Reply #4 pg1) on Apr 13. He has provided an email for 2012 owners with questions. Keith, I recommend you send them an email listing your concerns. Maybe they're going to be more flexible and generous than we think.
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Emailed Chris this morning I will await a reply.
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Keith no I don't work for Zero. I just have many miles on them (over 125k miles now) and have followed thousands of sales of used bikes over 6 years and can tell you what you think your bike is worth and what you could sell it to a buyer for are very different. Look at the cycle trader ad. 2 years ago, if you tried to tell the dealer that their ZF6 wasn't worth $5000, and you offer him $2500 and he rejects the offer saying it is worth more, and you leave, who is right? Years later he still hasn't sold it. He can believe its worth more, but in a fair market, to be justified in your belief, you have to find a buyer who shares your belief and buys it.
All I'm saying is if you think it's worth more, what makes you think that? Someone on the facebook group just bought a 2014 Zero last month for $6500 from a dealer and loves it. Another person traded in a different 2014 for $6000 towards a new 2018.
I know you have a personal motivation in trying to believe your bike is worth more than it is, and you could say I should too as I own one and will be affected by the recall as well. I'm just trying to be realistic.
But I agree for those who use it everyday and love it and it works for them, if Zero is going to take this bike from you, they need to help get you on some other Zero that works equally as well. I think there will be some 2013 3 bricks that should be selling in the $5k range. For those 2012 owners who can't afford to upgrade to a 2018, it would be cool if there was a liaison to reach out to 2013 8.5 owners to offer them a 2018 upgrade deal so these 2013 3 brick bikes could be matched to those affected by the 2012 recall.
Although it might need to be 2014 bikes, as I think the 2013's got upgraded to 2015 batteries because of a problem with the first generation potting material. So I think all 2013 8.5's are now 2013 9.4's. The only 8.5's left are 2014's I think.
With only 218 bikes out there, it shouldn't be too hard to one by one work with each owner to find out if he uses his bike and wants to stay on a Zero, or someone who really doesn't use their bike anymore and would just take a cash buy out as it is rarely used and just taking up space in the garage and not worth much to them. But for those who do, to work to get them on some sort of newer model year Zero. Whether it be a new 2018 for those who can afford it, which is where I feel the biggest financial incentive will be as Zero has control over this, or helping them get on a used 2013 or 2014 bike, but Zero has no control over this as these bikes are owned by independent dealers or owners and can't control price at all and it becomes complicated. For those who can make it work, I think upgrading to a 2018 will be the best deal. No situation is 100% fair and simple, but I would hope the goal would be to try to make the best out of a unfortunate situation.
As Paul said, perhaps this should be viewed as driving a used Volvo worth $1000 and, at no fault of your own, someone hits you. The insurance has no real duty to find another $1000 Volvo, all they do is give you a $1000 check. You have to find another used car on your own. Both the Volvo situation and this one do suck as Paul said. The only positive on this is those who were thinking about upgrading to a new bike sometime soon anyway, and this will actually be a positive for them as I think Zero will be willing to take a reasonable loss on the 2018 models to keep their early adopter customers on a Zero bike and not leave them empty handed if they can. But outside of the 2018 models, Zero has no control.
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I have copies of other 2012 for sale the day of the recall announcement $7,500 Austin Texas, $6,900 Mountain View, CA, $6,500 Ellenton, FL. The bike you are referring to is not new it has 4175 miles on it is a ZF6 not a ZF9 like mine and was on sale from Ottumwa, IA.
Keith I hear you, but remember people can ask what ever they want, so an asking price really has no bearing except you know the true value is less than the asking value 99% of the time.
Good news is I think you might have more time to keep your bike before they take it from you, but I still wouldn't ride it. The NHTSA recall does not affect bikes outside of North America I believe. So Zero will work on these 218 bikes first would be my guess, and then bikes in Europe after, but that is just a guess. If I was a 2012 Zero owner anywhere I would proceed with caution and follow Zero's recommendation not to ride or charge it anymore.
edit: no isolation circuit on the 2012 BMS so no way to detect this ahead of time. I had made a comment to look for that but it didn't start until 2013.
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Does any of you know if former VW engineer or head of department work at Zero?
The level would be ok 8)
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Put the word out as of 13.15 GMT here in the UK my 2012 ZF9 caught alight whilst I was riding it. Sunny day here I went to shop then all hell broke loose. Please all do not be tempted to ride this was a serious fire almost immediatly. It must have to do with the first sunny day. Please I have contacted Zero can any of you do so also for me.
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Put the word out as of 13.15 GMT here in the UK my 2012 ZF9 caught alight whilst I was riding it. Sunny day here I went to shop then all hell broke loose. Please all do not be tempted to ride this was a serious fire almost immediatly. It must have to do with the first sunny day. Please I have contacted Zero can any of you do so also for me.
Hi Keith - Did you happen to take any photos or videos? Sorry this happened and hope you did not suffer any injury.
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Yes he did. Photos are on the facebook owners group.
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Keith, so sorry to hear about your literally unbelievable experience. Glad you are OK. Truly crazy.
Attached is a sample pic from Keith's facebook post for all you non-facebookers.
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Yesterday I saw a 2012 for sale on Craigslist in the Bay Area, I emailed the seller informing them of the recall. He took the advert down right away and replied that he didn't have any idea there was a recall. He was registered with Zero as the owner. Zero really should hoof it on getting those notices out.
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Yesterday I saw a 2012 for sale on Craigslist in the Bay Area, I emailed the seller informing them of the recall. He took the advert down right away and replied that he didn't have any idea there was a recall. He was registered with Zero as the owner. Zero really should hoof it on getting those notices out.
+1 Paul! I know things take time and I would have hoped almost all Zero owners are either on here or on FB Zero Owners group but with only 3000 members of the FB group and perhaps 10,000 owners now, perhaps 2 in 3 don't get social media information. I would expect they are calling and emailing everyone, but you have just shown its not reaching everyone fast enough. I don't know how else to help faster on my end if they aren't on social media.
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Hello
A general question!
1 The first Zero burned on July 2016 What has Zero done until now?
2 I can not find any warnings on the European Zero website.
3 Subscribed to the newsletter from Zero until now no hints received.
4 Had many problems with my 2012 and email traffic with Zero! You have my e-mail. But was not notified !!
5 My Zero dealer has not called me! Will ask on Monday why not. With a stupid answer l buy him blue eyes :o!!!!!!
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Keith, so sorry to hear about your literally unbelievable experience. Glad you are OK. Truly crazy.
Attached is a sample pic from Keith's facebook post for all you non-facebookers.
That got my daughter's attention. Now she is definitely going to contact Zero to get on their recall program. :)
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Hello
A general question!
1 The first Zero burned on July 2016 What has Zero done until now?
2 I can not find any warnings on the European Zero website.
3 Subscribed to the newsletter from Zero until now no hints received.
4 Had many problems with my 2012 and email traffic with Zero! You have my e-mail. But was not notified !!
5 My Zero dealer has not called me! Will ask on Monday why not. With a stupid answer l buy him blue eyes :o!!!!!!
centra12 email support@zeromotorcycles.com right away!
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Zero should finally do a good job !!!
But they are probably afraid to go bankrupt.
Financially, Zero is not that great
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Any thoughts on what Zero is going to do with these bikes?
Almost seems unsafe to transport them to the dealer, much less back to California.
Will the dealers have to dismantle them?
Almost seems like they need to send a bomb squad LOL.
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Any thoughts on what Zero is going to do with these bikes?
Almost seems unsafe to transport them to the dealer, much less back to California.
Will the dealers have to dismantle them?
Almost seems like they need to send a bomb squad LOL.
My recollection is that one of the articles referenced on the first page of this post mentioned that Zero would pick up the bike at your home (or wherever it is stored) and haul it away for you. So far, there has been no discussion of what happens after that. My guess would be that Zero will pick up the bikes from each dealer and dismantle and (hopefully) recycle the parts at the factory.
Or I guess they could ship them all to China for dismantling by children at a local garbage dump. :o
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I would guess that once picked up they will be discharged in a controlled location, then dismantled, and recycled (battery) and disposed of, crushed/destroyed (everything else) including chopping up the frame to ensue the salvage parts can never get used again.
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I would guess that once picked up they will be discharged in a controlled location, then dismantled, and recycled (battery) and disposed of, crushed/destroyed (everything else) including chopping up the frame to ensue the salvage parts can never get used again.
If that happens, that is going to be a shame for anyone who wants to set up an electric motorcycle museum in the future. The 2012 Zero range is worth protecting for historical reasons, even if the batteries need to be removed from the chassis.
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I would guess that once picked up they will be discharged in a controlled location, then dismantled, and recycled (battery) and disposed of, crushed/destroyed (everything else) including chopping up the frame to ensue the salvage parts can never get used again.
If that happens, that is going to be a shame for anyone who wants to set up an electric motorcycle museum in the future. The 2012 Zero range is worth protecting for historical reasons, even if the batteries need to be removed from the chassis.
Good point, It would be nice to get a blank battery box to preserve some of the bikes in excellent condition to go into motorcycle museums someday. I know even if the battery is removed, they will want to ensure the bike never gets ridden again at least, so I don't know how to ensure this. But I totally see what you mean. The 2012 Zero is the bike that put Zero on the map. First electric bike to get 100 miles range (city) and it would be worth preserving these for this purpose I agree.
Hopefully at Zero once the monolith is disassembled and cell bricks removed, it can be reassembled without the cells inside and many of these bikes kept somewhere. However, someone has to store these bikes for perhaps 10 years before museums become interested enough in electric to want them.
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If you email Zero about the recall and provide your VIN you will probably get this response:
Thank you for your email. At the present time, Zero Motorcycles is urging owners not to ride or charge the 2012 Zero S or DS motorcycles. This direction includes not taking any other extraordinary steps to discharge the motorcycle. If you feel your motorcycle is not acting normally in some way or you are concerned, you could take extra steps to move it away from the house to a location that you believe is safer.
We are in the process of confirming plans to facilitate a repurchases or trade-assists. This includes plans to have your motorcycle collected and properly recycled at no cost to you. Zero Motorcycles intends to notify owners beginning on April 30th in accordance with the requirements of our work with NHTSA on this matter.
We regret any inconvenience this may cause you, but we are initiating this action in the interest of your personal safety and satisfaction with our products. Thank you for your cooperation.
Regards,
Andrew Mikhail
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Again, for the non-Facebookers, here is an interesting rumor.
"Exceptionally good compensation" - now I've got my hopes up over a few subjective words LOL.
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As I was riding around today on my Zero, a thought occurred to me: I wonder what will happen to all of the motors, Sevcon controllers, contactor switches, frames, wheels, brakes and other expensive chassis and electronic parts on those 2012 Zeros after the batteries are removed and recycled? I hope they are put back on the market for DIY use, instead of just being tossed into the dumpster because that is what will make liability lawyers happy. ???
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You mean, you hope they don't treat them like HD treated the Buell bikes after the demise of that experiment?
(http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/514025.jpg)
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You mean, you hope they don't treat them like HD treated the Buell bikes after the demise of that experiment?
To be fair, thats how Harley dealerships treated Buell DURING the experiment.
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You mean, you hope they don't treat them like HD treated the Buell bikes after the demise of that experiment?
(http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/514025.jpg)
That was a sad day, alright. I have a friend that bought a used riding-school Blast to add to his 23-motorcycle collection a couple of years ago. It cost him about $3000 for the bike and another $3000 in parts to rebuild it so that it would shift gears again. I rode the thing around for a few miles and much prefer my Royal Enfield to the Blast. An interesting experiment, but not a very good motorcycle.
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That was a sad day, alright. I have a friend that bought a used riding-school Blast to add to his 23-motorcycle collection a couple of years ago. It cost him about $3000 for the bike and another $3000 in parts to rebuild it so that it would shift gears again. I rode the thing around for a few miles and much prefer my Royal Enfield to the Blast. An interesting experiment, but not a very good motorcycle.
The blast wasnt a buell.
the blast was something forced upon buell to carry along the harley idea that buells were "beginner bikes" and oneday riders would "step up" to a harley.
it was a shitty slam together to build a bike that people could ride to pass their riding test... because the giant piece of shit bikes they sell cant pass most riding tests without intermediate or higher skill and most harley riders cant ride worth a shit.
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That was a sad day, alright. I have a friend that bought a used riding-school Blast to add to his 23-motorcycle collection a couple of years ago. It cost him about $3000 for the bike and another $3000 in parts to rebuild it so that it would shift gears again. I rode the thing around for a few miles and much prefer my Royal Enfield to the Blast. An interesting experiment, but not a very good motorcycle.
The blast wasnt a buell.
the blast was something forced upon buell to carry along the harley idea that buells were "beginner bikes" and oneday riders would "step up" to a harley.
it was a shitty slam together to build a bike that people could ride to pass their riding test... because the giant piece of shit bikes they sell cant pass most riding tests without intermediate or higher skill and most harley riders cant ride worth a shit.
Could you share your genuine feelings, MrDude? HAHAHAH
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A battery housing without seals has zero built there
What perfect idiots ;D
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Today (Apr 30) is the day that Zero is supposed to be mailing letters to the owners. Wonder if there's going to be some kind of press release as well?
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I hope so, not heard anything in the UK and its 17.20 here on the 30th. I have to assume you will hear before we Brits do. I am eagerly awaiting news.
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I hope so, not heard anything in the UK and its 17.20 here on the 30th. I have to assume you will hear before we Brits do. I am eagerly awaiting news.
I assume you must have gotten some contact from Zero after your "Thermal Event". What information did they have (that you can share)?
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I am reluctant to post to much and stir up things again. I had a telephone call from Danny vanderHorst of Zero EU on the evening of the thermal event but have had no contact from Zero USA in all the time since. I know nothing of the offer and am as eager as yourself as I used my bike as my primary means of transport. I had hoped it was to be a cheap means to get around in the rural location I live in. Hopefully someone Stateside gets a letter today and posts on here or facebook. I need to get it sorted ASAP as I need another bike for transport everyday. I fear I will not be able to get another Zero on my limited funds. I eagerly await news.
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Per the NHTSA filing, Zero Motorcycles will be mailing certified letters to owners in North America today. Translated materials and details for other regions are in process and should be mailed within the next week. Emails will also be sent this week.
Thank you for your patience.
Chris Langlois
Zero Motorcycles Customer Experience Team
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I am reluctant to post to much and stir up things again. I had a telephone call from Danny vanderHorst of Zero EU on the evening of the thermal event but have had no contact from Zero USA in all the time since. I know nothing of the offer and am as eager as yourself as I used my bike as my primary means of transport. I had hoped it was to be a cheap means to get around in the rural location I live in. Hopefully someone Stateside gets a letter today and posts on here or facebook. I need to get it sorted ASAP as I need another bike for transport everyday. I fear I will not be able to get another Zero on my limited funds. I eagerly await news.
I think you will have to wait a little longer. The US Postal Service is not all that speedy when it comes to delivery of certified first class mail. Now if it was junk mail it would arrive much faster. ::)
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Looks like I was too low in my estimation if the 2012 Zero customer is correct who messaged me this morning asking which model year Zero he should buy, in which I replied 2018 if you can for the biggest battery, or 2017 if power is mostly important to you and the biggest battery is not a priority, and if power is not important and can't qualify for financing the remainder of a 2018, to get a 2016, as it is the first year with a stronger frame for more confidence and less frame flex flicking the bike back and forth in the corners, and also has the suspension, bearing, brake, wheel and ABS upgrades that came with the 2015 model year, yet was the first year of the 13.0 battery which had almost 20% less internal resistance than the 2015 12.5 battery.
Everyone should be able to get something 2016 or newer as it looks like Zero is going above and beyond to really take care of their early adopters with a generous offer, and for that we all should be grateful. If the customer who messaged me is correct it looks like it might be $6000 buyout, and $7000 towards a new or used Zero at a current Zero dealer. For $7000, this means that adding perhaps $2k or $3k of your own money, you can get into the 2016 to 2018 range which i would love to see everyone do if they can. I know at least 3 people who got used 2016 3 brick Zero S's this year for the $6k-$7k range so if you want an SR, for a little more it's totally possible.
Again i have no confirmation on this, just one single independent report, but i have been friends with this customer for 7 years and he has always been very reliable.
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Can anyone confirm what Terry has heard and received their letters yet. I hope its true they used the KBB value and $6000 is correct, that's only what I was posting on here for. I got some negative comments for doing so but I have only been lobbying for a fair deal. I only pointed out the KBB value and asking prices before the recall. I fear in the UK there are no used Zeros for sale at the moment as they are rare over here. I have had no contact from Zero yet and need to replace my bike ASAP. If anyone can confirm the offer and inform the refund timescale I would be very grateful.
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Can anyone confirm what Terry has heard and received their letters yet. I hope its true they used the KBB value and $6000 is correct, that's only what I was posting on here for. I got some negative comments for doing so but I have only been lobbying for a fair deal. I only pointed out the KBB value and asking prices before the recall. I fear in the UK there are no used Zeros for sale at the moment as they are rare over here. I have had no contact from Zero yet and need to replace my bike ASAP. If anyone can confirm the offer and inform the refund timescale I would be very grateful.
I asked my daughter to send me a copy of her letter when she receives (and signs for) it. When that happens I will post what it says. She is located about 80 miles from the factory - but then that really doesn't mean much to the USPS. ::)
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Got my recall notice...
The "remedies" available are a refund of KBB FMV, i.e. $5080 for a ZF6 or $6040 for a ZF9, plus 50% value of Zero-approved accessories. If you choose a "financial trade assist" remedy, they'll add $1000 to that sum toward the purchase of a new Zero.
Collection of the recalled bikes is set to commence on 10 May. The local dealer will confirm your choice of remedy after they receive the bike and documentation.
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I just returned from my Zero dealer, where I spoke with the shop's business manager. She said that all of the dealers participated in a webinar the other day and were told that the recall letters would be sent out on May 11. Apparently, she must have been confused with the date of the start of bike retrievals. She said that the shop would make arrangements to pick it up at your home. She also said that there were some paperwork procedures that would have to be accomplished during the transfer of the title back to Zero. She also said that the refund checks would be sent to the dealership and they could be picked up there once the check arrives (whenever that is). I can see how this process might be a little confusing until it is performed a few times.
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I just returned from my Zero dealer, where I spoke with the shop's business manager. She said that all of the dealers participated in a webinar the other day and were told that the recall letters would be sent out on May 11. Apparently, she must have been confused with the date of the start of bike retrievals. She said that the shop would make arrangements to pick it up at your home. She also said that there were some paperwork procedures that would have to be accomplished during the transfer of the title back to Zero. She also said that the refund checks would be sent to the dealership and they could be picked up there once the check arrives (whenever that is). I can see how this process might be a little confusing until it is performed a few times.
Screwed some more... my zero dealer opted out of supporting zeros not long after selling me one. Couldnt get a firmware check, couldn't get diagnostics, couldn't get ****. I got 7k miles out of my 2012. Put a new hall sensor in last year, got a couple hundred more miles, then it was back to being glitchy and unridable. If they give me 6k for it, I'll have spent over a dollar a mile on it :(
Having said all that, if the buy assist is enough, I'll throw more money down the money pit on the slim hope of having a reliable electric bike... I friggin loved the 7,000 miles I managed to get in...
If they send the check to my "dealer" though, I'm probably screwed, and I'll just keep the damn thing.
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I just returned from my Zero dealer, where I spoke with the shop's business manager. She said that all of the dealers participated in a webinar the other day and were told that the recall letters would be sent out on May 11. Apparently, she must have been confused with the date of the start of bike retrievals. She said that the shop would make arrangements to pick it up at your home. She also said that there were some paperwork procedures that would have to be accomplished during the transfer of the title back to Zero. She also said that the refund checks would be sent to the dealership and they could be picked up there once the check arrives (whenever that is). I can see how this process might be a little confusing until it is performed a few times.
Screwed some more... my zero dealer opted out of supporting zeros not long after selling me one. Couldnt get a firmware check, couldn't get diagnostics, couldn't get ****. I got 7k miles out of my 2012. Put a new hall sensor in last year, got a couple hundred more miles, then it was back to being glitchy and unridable. If they give me 6k for it, I'll have spent over a dollar a mile on it :(
Having said all that, if the buy assist is enough, I'll throw more money down the money pit on the slim hope of having a reliable electric bike... I friggin loved the 7,000 miles I managed to get in...
If they send the check to my "dealer" though, I'm probably screwed, and I'll just keep the damn thing.
Well if you still own the bike and have contacted Zero and made sure that they know your current address, once you get the recall letter you can no doubt contact them and make arrangements to pick up the bike at your home and then just ask that the check be sent to you, instead of the original dealer if they no longer have a Zero franchise.
Keeping the bike might not be an option as the DOT might red-flag the VIN and your state might not let it be registered again. Plus, it if ever did catch on fire and cause damage to your property or someone else's property, you would likely be on the hook for any resulting damages - and heaven help you if someone was hurt or injured (or worse) due to the fire.
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Everyone should be able to get something 2016 or newer as it looks like Zero is going above and beyond to really take care of their early adopters with a generous offer
I poked through cycle trader, and nationwide craigslist. Checked with Colorado's dealerships. Unless I want a broken down 2011 model I think I'm SOL.
Maybe I'm missing something. How are you thinking that my $5k cash/$6k dealer credit will enable me to get "something 2016 or newer"?
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Here is a fun "fact" that I heard from my dealer yesterday. I was told that Zero originally proposed that dealers would "decommission" the 2012 models at their shop by cutting the frame head-stock off of the bike with a power saw. Needless to say that idea went over like the proverbial "lead balloon" with the dealers, for a number of reasons. Not the least of which was the danger of cutting the bike in half and then being stuck with the parts that might go up in smoke in the middle of their building at any time. I think that the plan likely is for Zero to pick up the recalled models from their dealers ASAP and make them disappear either at the factory or via a third-party contractor.
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Here is a fun "fact" that I heard from my dealer yesterday. I was told that Zero originally proposed that dealers would "decommission" the 2012 models at their shop by cutting the frame head-stock off of the bike with a power saw. Needless to say that idea went over like the proverbial "lead balloon" with the dealers, for a number of reasons. Not the least of which was the danger of cutting the bike in half and then being stuck with the parts that might go up in smoke in the middle of their building at any time. I think that the plan likely is for Zero to pick up the recalled models from their dealers ASAP and make them disappear either at the factory or via a third-party contractor.
I kind of wish that was true... I could use the motor and controller for my kids Kart.
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I received the 2012 Zero letter today, apparently as the original owner of the vehicle. It came certified mail and I had to sign for it at the U.S. Postal Service office. Oddly, my daughter, who currently owns the bike, has not yet received her letter in spite of notifying Zero via email twice that she is the current owner of the bike. Attached is a copy of the recall letter for your information. It looks like Zero is throwing EIG under the bus. I thought all EIG did was supply the individual cells, while Zero assembled (and likely designed) the battery packs at their factory? ???
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Here are the three pages of instructions regarding how to have your bike collected (apparently by an independent shipping company contracted by Zero) and what hoops you have to jump through to receive your payout. Apparently they expect everyone to own a digital camera and know how to use it - like me. ;) I kind of wonder how things are being handled for motorcycles that are in the possession of owners located outside the U.S. ???
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If "substantially damaged" you only get 1/2 KBB. Do you think our friend Keith's bike will qualify as "substantially damaged"?
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If "substantially damaged" you only get 1/2 KBB. Do you think our friend Keith's bike will qualify as "substantially damaged"?
Only the Shadow knows (referring to the old radio program and not our Shadow ;) ).
Perhaps one solution to the question would be to remove all of the substantially damaged parts first. ;D
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Did everyone see on Facebook? Lloyd Reeves got a demo 2017 SR with 400 miles for $3760 out of pocket after trading in his 2012 Zero S! He is so freakin happy right now!
Edit: he says in a later comment "plus taxes, tags, delivery etc" In a later comment he says the total was $5800. Still a damn good deal for a 2017 SR!!
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Did everyone see on Facebook? Lloyd Reeves got a demo 2017 SR with 400 miles for $3040 out of pocket after trading in his 2012 Zero S! He is so freakin happy right now!
Umm, Lloyd said he paid $5800 out of pocket (see screenshot below), not sure where you got $3040. And although I do understand the concept that he's got a much better bike for that $5800 than his 2012 was, I personally would not be "freakin happy" to have to unexpectedly shell out $5800 to be able to continue riding an electric motorcycle.
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I agree with ColoPaul here ...
Pay $12k for a bike ... ride it a couple years ... bike is recalled with dealer trade-in option ... pay another ~$5-6k to continue riding electric bike ...
I know several people who have done this exact thing and I don't think any of them were "happy" to have to pay the extra unexpected $6k to continue riding an electric bike they fell in love with that was for all other purposes meeting their needs.
Now that isn't to say they didn't enjoy the upgrade ... but for many it was an unexpected, necessary, expense ... it was almost a non-choice ... go back to a crap ICE bike you have to maintenance all the time for the same cost (since I don't think people were offered checks for their bad bikes which they could put toward an ICE bike for example) or get electric.
Either way the expense was real.
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ColoPaul you were right, I see where he later made comments adding the cost of taxes title and fees to bring it to $5800. Still a great deal for a 2017!! If you're looking to just keep riding electric and don't care about the latest and greatest you look for a 2013 or 2014 S model, which will still be faster and more range than the 2012 S, so still a hell of a deal.
And true while this is unexpected and not a choice, someone made the comment that if you're driving a 20 year old Volvo around, and some distracted lady comes flying through an intersection and smacks you totaling your car, you don't really have a choice in the matter either, and the insurance will only give you what they think your car is worth, not what it was worth to you. In this deal, they are giving you full KBB, which I think is on the high end of what many would decide to part with cash for another 2012 if you see what I mean, plus $1000 on top towards another Zero, so basically a 15%-20% bonus on top.
I see a 2017 S 6.5 asking price for $8400 on Cycle Trader. Negotiate to $8000 and take the $1500 2017 coupon and that's $6500, minus the $1000 bonus and that's $5500, add in the trade in value and your within range of the taxes and fees and have a bike that's only 1 year old vs 6 years old! I mean really, it's hard to be complaining if you think about it. No one wanted this to happen. But it did. Look at it as a great opportunity to get on something newer. Do you see Lloyd complaining about spending $5800 to get on a 2017 SR with 50% more range and double the power, ABS brakes, Showa suspension, better ergonomics, more informed dash readout, etc. I mean stop to really think about this and look at the glass as half full instead of half empty and it will appear as a great opportunity.
If its just about money, and not having the best bike, you can come out ahead. Negotiate on a 2013 or 2014 FX and you will actually profit in the deal.
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No, I don’t see Lloyd complaining. Strange to me, as he admitted that he’s got $16,000 in his 2012, and with only 11,000 miles he was “happy with it and had no plans to sell itâ€, but in the end got $7000 from Zero for it. That’s pushing $1/mile!! Ouch. And you say he's “freakin happy†to fork over another $5800. Lloyd clearly has money to burn. Is that a prerequisite for Zero ownership nowadays?
I appreciate the effort you put into the 2017 suggestion. But even with everything you mention, I would be out $3000** for that specific bike. (Plus buying a bike sight unseen and having it shipped 2000 miles makes me nervous) Yes, it’s newer, faster, better, etc, but I don’t assign a lot of value to those things -- I liked my 2012 just fine. I think this is the key point where we don't see eye to eye.
Regarding your 2013/14 FX "profit" comment, the cheapest I see on cycle trader is $6k--given my $5k cash payout, I’d have to negotiate down to like $4k-$4.5k to cover shipping, taxes, etc to just break even. That's not realistic. Plus I really don't want a dirt bike.
Too bad Zero won't take just the batteries and leave me with the bike and $5k, I'd take that in a heartbeat! I'll keep my eyes open, and maybe someday I'll luck into a deal where I can get something for $5k. Finally, don’t get me wrong, I think that Zero is being fair, reasonable and responsible. But for now (you might call it complaining, but I see it as just a fact) I no longer have an electric ride, instead I've got a check/credit that’s not enough to buy an equivalent (or better) replacement.
**$8495 list,CT tax $539,dealer fees $1000,shipping $715,increased ins/reg $250,zero coupon -$1500,2012 trade-in -$6080,negotiating -$400
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Last night my daughter emailed Zero with her bike's information per the recall instructions in Zero''s letter. Her 2012 Zero S was picked up this morning and is now at the SF Zero dealership. That was a very fast response. Hopefully the recall check will arrive at the dealership just as quickly. :)
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My bike is also on the way to the landfill. <Sniff> :'(
33,000 miles. I'll bet that put me in the top 5% of 2012 riders.
I got alot more choked up than I thought I would. It's just not right.
Richard, what's your daughter going to do? Get the cash? Get a new zero?
Terry, will your 2012 be considered to be "substantially altered" because of all the mods you made to it?
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My bike is also on the way to the landfill. <Sniff> :'(
33,000 miles. I'll bet that put me in the top 5% of 2012 riders.
I got alot more choked up than I thought I would. It's just not right.
Richard, what's your daughter going to do? Get the cash? Get a new zero?
Terry, will your 2012 be considered to be "substantially altered" because of all the mods you made to it?
She is going for the cash, as she was told to move out of her rental home by July 1 since the owner wants to sell it and she now plans to buy a home to insulate her from rental issues. As you know, when buying a home you can never have enough money - especially in the SF Bay Area. Fortunately for her, last year when I bought my 2018 S, I gave her my old 2014 S (with PT) and (in spite of its slowly degrading battery pack) it is working very well for her local rides. The bike will still hit 95 mph and will travel a good 100 miles at legal speed limits. :)
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My daughter just picked up her $6,040 check from the SF Zero dealer last night. So it takes about two weeks between having your 2012 Zero picked up by Zero and for the check to be cut and sent to your dealer, where you get it after signing off your vehicle title. That seems pretty quick for receiving a manufacturer's check. :) Now she only has a 2014 S with Power Tank to ride - which makes the choice of what Zero to ride a lot easier. ;)
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Well I guess I was a little late to be notified. Just did the change of warranty/owner forms on Zero's website so they can send me the official emails.
I'm pretty sad about the ordeal. I loved my 2012 Zero S and was really looking forward to riding it through the summer like I did last year. If I were in the market for a new bike, I'd be ecstatic. Unfortunately in my current situation with family, finances, and house issues, I cannot justify nor afford doing the "financial assist" towards a new bike since I'd be at least $5k out of pocket for a new S.
So I guess I have similar thoughts to ColoPaul. If the recall never occurred I'd be happily riding my Zero through the summer (assuming bike didn't have issues/became a ball of flames). Since it happened and I cannot afford a new bike, I will not be. I genuinely feel that something great has been taken from me and there really isn't anything I can do about it.
Take the money and get a cheaper ICE bike is what co-workers tell me. I have a hard enough time keeping up with my car and house maintenance (it seems like both are fixer-uppers) and the "zero maintenance" was what attracted me to an electric bike in the first place. Not to mention free charging at work. I just don't have the time and resources to have another engine at the house, it seems like everything from my car to my lawn-mower like to have issues when I need them most.
I guess the irony of it all is that I felt like a bit of an unofficial spokesperson for Zero for the years I owned and rode it, defending the brand when people tried to say electric motorcycles were stupid, or spitting out the specs for the newer models and comparing mine and how far they've come when questioned with range, power, charging etc. I'm sure some of you feel the same way. I legitimately gave people advice on whether or not electric would be a good idea for them or not, based on their riding desires and intentions. I feel a little embarrassed that now my bike will be recalled for a defect and I won't get a replacement.
Maybe within the next decade I'll source the money for a new one. Maybe it will be my mid-life crisis venture. Until then, I hope you all get/got what you wanted out of it. I enjoyed every mile I put on that thing, even if it were barely 1000. Such a waste to see a bike with just 1800 miles see a landfill.
Vent over. In all honesty I'm not completely opposed to financing a new bike if given the option, but I'm 99% sure I won't. It might come with a divorce, or at least a very very unhappy wife and a lot of explaining to do.
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My daughter just picked up her $6,040 check from the SF Zero dealer last night. So it takes about two weeks between having your 2012 Zero picked up by Zero and for the check to be cut and sent to your dealer, where you get it after signing off your vehicle title. That seems pretty quick for receiving a manufacturer's check. :) Now she only has a 2014 S with Power Tank to ride - which makes the choice of what Zero to ride a lot easier. ;)
Got my check Thursday... $5980 -- Having been offered $2500 trade-in for that bike 3 years ago makes this deal seem pretty sweet to me; relatively speaking, that is.
When the dealer declined to even give me a trade-in offer for my '14 SR with power tank & full set of Givis two weeks ago, my hopes for a upgrading to a new model were shattered. Given the OTD price for the '18SR with charge tank being ~$23k, I think I'll content myself with a pair of Digi-Now's & a new rear tire!
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Well I guess I was a little late to be notified. Just did the change of warranty/owner forms on Zero's website so they can send me the official emails.
I'm pretty sad about the ordeal. I loved my 2012 Zero S and was really looking forward to riding it through the summer like I did last year. If I were in the market for a new bike, I'd be ecstatic. Unfortunately in my current situation with family, finances, and house issues, I cannot justify nor afford doing the "financial assist" towards a new bike since I'd be at least $5k out of pocket for a new S.
So I guess I have similar thoughts to ColoPaul. If the recall never occurred I'd be happily riding my Zero through the summer (assuming bike didn't have issues/became a ball of flames). Since it happened and I cannot afford a new bike, I will not be. I genuinely feel that something great has been taken from me and there really isn't anything I can do about it.
Take the money and get a cheaper ICE bike is what co-workers tell me. I have a hard enough time keeping up with my car and house maintenance (it seems like both are fixer-uppers) and the "zero maintenance" was what attracted me to an electric bike in the first place. Not to mention free charging at work. I just don't have the time and resources to have another engine at the house, it seems like everything from my car to my lawn-mower like to have issues when I need them most.
I guess the irony of it all is that I felt like a bit of an unofficial spokesperson for Zero for the years I owned and rode it, defending the brand when people tried to say electric motorcycles were stupid, or spitting out the specs for the newer models and comparing mine and how far they've come when questioned with range, power, charging etc. I'm sure some of you feel the same way. I legitimately gave people advice on whether or not electric would be a good idea for them or not, based on their riding desires and intentions. I feel a little embarrassed that now my bike will be recalled for a defect and I won't get a replacement.
Maybe within the next decade I'll source the money for a new one. Maybe it will be my mid-life crisis venture. Until then, I hope you all get/got what you wanted out of it. I enjoyed every mile I put on that thing, even if it were barely 1000. Such a waste to see a bike with just 1800 miles see a landfill.
Vent over. In all honesty I'm not completely opposed to financing a new bike if given the option, but I'm 99% sure I won't. It might come with a divorce, or at least a very very unhappy wife and a lot of explaining to do.
My advice: Shop for a USED Zero. The first owner ALWAYS takes a *major* depreciation hit. My '14 SR is worth 3-4x (to ME) what a dealer would offer in trade for it. Had the dealer offered me anything better than the '12 buy-back sum from Zero, I'd have ordered a new '18 bike on the spot.
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RickSteeb I am absolutely considering a used bike, especially considering my 2012 was a used one. I haven't been able to find anything in my area or affordable though. Called the dealerships in my area they said they didn't even have any old demos, let alone used models; they just have the new '18s. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep an eye out while I wait for Zero to come get their bike. :'(
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RickSteeb I am absolutely considering a used bike, especially considering my 2012 was a used one. I haven't been able to find anything in my area or affordable though. Called the dealerships in my area they said they didn't even have any old demos, let alone used models; they just have the new '18s. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep an eye out while I wait for Zero to come get their bike. :'(
Having owned a 2014 S with PT and now owning a 2018 S with PT, I really can't tell much difference in performance between the two different year models. The 2014 model felt like it accelerated a little faster than the 2018, the range seems about the same and the Nissan front brake on the 2014 is better than the J.Juan version on the 2018. In my opinion the largest difference between the two years is the Showa suspension on the later models, which is about a 100% improvement over the Fast Ace stuff on the 2014 bikes, and maybe the ABS installed on the 2017/18 years. Just looking at Zero's brochure specifications and features, it appears to me that there is no difference between the 2017 and 2018 S models. If you can find a left-over 2017, I would go for that, especially if you can get the advertised $1500 price reduction that shows up in my banner ads frequently - and the recall credit, and a state EV rebate, and hope that the IRS credit is approved for this year purchases.
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Thanks guys all very useful info. Does anyone know if there is a big difference in the ride and maneuverability between the different battery sizes? I ask because I had the 2012 S ZF6, looking at the specs on the newer models seeing that 100 lb difference kind of scares me. I would want to invest in the range, but not if it makes the ride feel less nimble.
A little context: My 2012 S is the only bike I've ever owned. The only other bike I rode (just once) was a very generic looking Yamaha street bike for a required motorcycle safety course while I was in the Navy. I enjoy riding but I feel like the 2012 Zero S felt perfect, not that I had anything to compare it to.
I think I'll try to arrange a few test rides, that will be the ultimate test. Going to be hard to wait to get my hands on a new one if I ever do, but I'm getting a little more motivated to save up for one in the long term.
Sorry if I got a little off topic. Anyone still waiting to get their bike to be picked up?
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Thanks guys all very useful info. Does anyone know if there is a big difference in the ride and maneuverability between the different battery sizes? I ask because I had the 2012 S ZF6, looking at the specs on the newer models seeing that 100 lb difference kind of scares me. I would want to invest in the range, but not if it makes the ride feel less nimble.
A little context: My 2012 S is the only bike I've ever owned. The only other bike I rode (just once) was a very generic looking Yamaha street bike for a required motorcycle safety course while I was in the Navy. I enjoy riding but I feel like the 2012 Zero S felt perfect, not that I had anything to compare it to.
I think I'll try to arrange a few test rides, that will be the ultimate test. Going to be hard to wait to get my hands on a new one if I ever do, but I'm getting a little more motivated to save up for one in the long term.
Sorry if I got a little off topic. Anyone still waiting to get their bike to be picked up?
The Power Tank model is a bit of a pig when being pushed around and when transitioning from one side to another when riding on a curvy back road. However, that is likely not the case with the other Zero models that don't have an extra 42 pounds in the normal fuel tank position. Plus the new Showa suspension is a huge improvement over the Fast Ace junk used in the 2012 models. I think you would be amazed what a difference that makes between the two model years. Go for a test ride, see what you think, and post your review in the 2013+ sub-forum.
I forgot to add that the 2013-on Zeros have a lot more torque when starting off, especially when going uphill from a stop, compared with the 2012 and earlier models. My 2012 S would groan and struggle to get going from a stop when facing uphill, but my previous 2014 Zero S and new 2018 S model makes that chore much easier, in spite of having that heavy Power Tank on board.
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Can any of you tell me if it has taken over the 15 days stated in the recall to obtain your payments. EU Zero told me my payment was processed on the 22nd of May and not got anything yet 21 days later. I would be grateful to hear if you have got your payments or not. Its been too long without a bike now. Many thanks Keith.
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My bike went to the dealer May 11. I think the dealer submitted the final paperwork May 22, so today is 3 weeks from the paperwork submittal. I have not heard from them yet. I saw other posts, 2-3 weeks seems to be the timing. I'll give them 1 more week and then start bugging them.
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Well, the check came today. Coincidentally, when I went to get the check at the dealer, they were just loading up the bike. Destined for Akron, Ohio - for 'recycling'. I wonder what that really means?
Really, really sad to see my bike go. :'( Was an old friend, just not right to 'trash it'. Still wondering if I should have kept it, refused the $5k, and rebuilt the battery pack myself.
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My payment has gone into my account today 15th June. I can now start looking for an ICE 125cc to learn on and probably take my A class test, which the refund will pay for. I then could get a DSR but I have a house refurb to pay for first. Here in the rural UK charge points are few and far between. Can I ask how other 2012 owners are fairing, if they have been happy with the deal and how Zero have handled their cases.
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My daughter's recall refund will help pay for about one-fifth of the closing costs for the modest 60-year old, 1900sf home that she is buying so that she can get out from under rents that are rising 10% a year in her area.
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Does anyone know how Zero is handling the accessories compensation part of this transaction ? Is Zero asking us to return the purchased accessories ? I have an additional charger and I bought the passenger foot pegs also. The towing company says they are only picking up the bike.
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Does anyone know how Zero is handling the accessories compensation part of this transaction ? Is Zero asking us to return the purchased accessories ? I have an additional charger and I bought the passenger foot pegs also. The towing company says they are only picking up the bike.
I don't have an answer for you. My daughter took off all of the accessories that she had on her recalled Zero, figuring that it wasn't worth the effort to try to get Zero to pay a fraction of their original cost. She will either reuse them on her current Zero, should there be a mishap, or sell them on Craigslist some day.
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I hope they do "recycle" these bikes and they never see the road again. Chalk it up to R&D early adoption or what ever but I'm glad people are getting some money for them.
On a side note there are two 2012's for sale on Cycle Trader. The one in IA I emailed and then called and talked to them to let them know the bike was recalled for fire risk. The guy was like um yeah ok thanks, bye.
But it is still there. Are they dumb, lazy, or just unethical?
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I hope they do "recycle" these bikes and they never see the road again. Chalk it up to R&D early adoption or what ever but I'm glad people are getting some money for them.
On a side note there are two 2012's for sale on Cycle Trader. The one in IA I emailed and then called and talked to them to let them know the bike was recalled for fire risk. The guy was like um yeah ok thanks, bye.
But it is still there. Are they dumb, lazy, or just unethical?
Perhaps all three? ::)
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Hi! I have all the pieces except frame from 2012 zf9 ds. I m not the official owner because i bought as a spare parts looking for another 2012 zero damage motorbike to rebuilt. I just eard about the recall. Someone had this issue? Zero buyback the parts?
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Hi! I have all the pieces except frame from 2012 zf9 ds. I m not the official owner because i bought as a spare parts looking for another 2012 zero damage motorbike to rebuilt. I just eard about the recall. Someone had this issue? Zero buyback the parts?
In addition to entire 2012 motorcycles, Zero also compensated their owners for installed Zero accessories, I believe. But I don't think they will buy back a box full of random parts. It is likely that the frame, with its VIN, is the most important item for them, so that it can be destroyed, legally proving that the bikes are off the road. Regarding the other parts, like the motors, suspension, batteries, charges, controllers, etc., I think we all have wondered what happened to those after being returned to Zero. ???
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But if battery is the problem they should be sure that all units are retired. Don't sell batteries as spares?
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But if battery is the problem they should be sure that all units are retired. Don't sell batteries as spares?
I have no idea what is going on with the 2012 batteries that were not recalled. ??? But I think it is interesting that only the S an DS models for that year were recalled, if I am recalling correctly. Perhaps there is more to this recall story than Zero has explained in their recall letters and official notices. :o
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Seems Zero is not interested to recovered spares... Think I won't rebuilt this motorcycle if all frames are recovered by Zero.
Can the 2012 zf9 battery pack add to other year frame?
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I would strongly advise you not to use the 2012 battery as they were recalled due to the potential to catch fire. Vibration caused wear to the cell pouches allowing in moisture. Newer batteries are set in Epoxy resin to combat this. Many of us would be tempted to create a cheap bike/cart ? but it is not worth the risk.
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But if Zero doesn't want buyback spares, Who have the responsability if something happens?
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proposal for solution:
fill up the batterybox with silicon.
If there is no symptom for abraded cellcoat, silicon should avoid the effects leading to danger of fire.
There is a Silicon providing dielectric quality (ELPECAST® Wepesil potting compound (Silikon SR)).
In spite of missing guaranty this would be worth a trial ?
Joseph.
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I will add to the power bank a humidity prevent material and insulation, called "vermiculita"
By other side I m looking for a SDS 2012 frame with documentation, anybody can help me?
Otherwise, could I use a 2011 frame?
Thanks