ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on June 28, 2014, 04:13:36 AM
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Naturally, I have been fooling around with my 2014 S's "custom" mode setting using the Zero app (the only thing I use my free hand-me-down cell phone for) since I have owned my bike. I think I have finally decided on the best settings for the custom mode. I have mine set for "0" regen on closed throttle, a top speed of 94 mph (which I assume represents maximum power) and a 100% regen effect when braking. That gives me a choice of "sport" mode, which seems to provide something like 40% regen with the throttle closed, maybe 60% when braking and maximum power. Or "eco" mode, which appears to provide maybe 60% regen under closed throttle, 100% regen when braking and limits the top speed to 68 mph (why? my right hand can do that).
While I am not a big fan of "eco" mode, I do find "sport" mode and my "custom" mode settings useful when riding and I will toggle between the two modes depending upon my riding conditions.
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I have my top speed set to the max speed I can travel on the highway during my commute without getting a speeding ticket. It's like having a cruise control. I'm always in sport mode unless I am doing this or I need to conserve battery to make it to my destination.
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I have a 2013 so this is slightly different. Also, I've changed it slightly over time.
I customized Eco mode to remove the high speed limit for one reason: I need to run away from dangerous cars behind me. It is very scary to have a sports car breaking the speed limit and you can only veer to the side. I keep the bike set to Eco mode normally, and only use Sport mode intentionally when I want to get ahead of crowded downtown traffic or demo the bike in a clear street zone.
I set the regen during braking for both modes to 100% and then just tap the brakes so that cars behind me are notified that I'm slowing. I use 60% regen setting normally for Eco mode under closed throttle.
I reduce the torque in Eco mode during the rainy season to about 25% because of traction issues on wet, rough pavement.
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100% braking regen is definitely better. I do the same as you Richard. Except for long distance, I change the max torque to 4%, that's plenty enough!
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I can't change anything or have a separate top speed in Eco mode. What a bummer!
Can you still do this with the latest android app? Maybe it's only an older app version. If so, an apk backup would be wise. I have version 3.9 Zero app on android.
I have a 2013 so this is slightly different. Also, I've changed it slightly over time.
I customized Eco mode to remove the high speed limit for one reason: I need to run away from dangerous cars behind me. It is very scary to have a sports car breaking the speed limit and you can only veer to the side. I keep the bike set to Eco mode normally, and only use Sport mode intentionally when I want to get ahead of crowded downtown traffic or demo the bike in a clear street zone.
I set the regen during braking for both modes to 100% and then just tap the brakes so that cars behind me are notified that I'm slowing. I use 60% regen setting normally for Eco mode under closed throttle.
I reduce the torque in Eco mode during the rainy season to about 25% because of traction issues on wet, rough pavement.
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Naturally, I have been fooling around with my 2014 S's "custom" mode setting using the Zero app (the only thing I use my free hand-me-down cell phone for) since I have owned my bike. I think I have finally decided on the best settings for the custom mode. I have mine set for "0" regen on closed throttle, a top speed of 94 mph (which I assume represents maximum power) and a 100% regen effect when braking. That gives me a choice of "sport" mode, which seems to provide something like 40% regen with the throttle closed, maybe 60% when braking and maximum power. Or "eco" mode, which appears to provide maybe 60% regen under closed throttle, 100% regen when braking and limits the top speed to 68 mph (why? my right hand can do that).
While I am not a big fan of "eco" mode, I do find "sport" mode and my "custom" mode settings useful when riding and I will toggle between the two modes depending upon my riding conditions.
I have my custom mode set the same. I have found that in most cases I can get better range with zero Regen on closed throttle. Regen will never put back what you take out so it can be annoying when you are trying to coast and Regen is stealing momentum causing you to use energy to get back up to speed. This is most true for highway ridding... especially if you are drafting.
This is the main reason I would like a dedicated Regen lever on the left side where a clutch lever would be on an ICE motorcycle.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Does anyone know why I can't put 102mph as the max top speed in custom mode? I can drag the slider to 102 but it goes back to 100... Not that it matters much, just wondering if yours behaves the same. On a '15 SR.
By the way, 0 regen on throttle and 100% on brake is what I have too in my custom mode, 100% power, and full max speed. If I need less than that - off to Eco. I almost never use Sport, since my Custom is the same power and speed, but I prefer coasting at 0 throttle (although it is not true coasting - the bike still looses quite a bit of speed even at 0 regen due to electromagnetic forces)...
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Hello Folks,
With my "new" 2014 S, I just cannot adjust anything in the custom mode. Basically, the app connects to the Zero (most of the time though), and all the display functions are OK, I even could upload a log, but when it goes to the custom settings, the fool starts. Description (in imperial units for easy understanding ....)
Max speed: when I adjust the slider somewhere between 0 and 95 mph, say 75, after tapping "OK" it displays 75 for one second, and then it changes to 95 (the max speed). Retried millions of times.
Max torque: When I adjust say 60%, it shows 60% one second then turns to 100%
Default values: if I tap "reset default values", it will show speed 70 and torque 40 for one second or two, then switch to 95 and 100 respectively.
WTF?
It seems it is impossible to set custom values, and that the custom mode equals the sport mode probably.
Any idea?
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I have the same issue, since the app update its not working, I guess we need to wait for another update, PS nice to see another imiev owner here!
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I have the latest Zero app update and it seems to have no impact on my 2014 app function. (The impression that I get is that the recent app updates have nothing to do with the older model Zeros and are designed only to address the new Zeros.) The custom adjustment still works as well as it ever did on my 2014S. So perhaps it has something to do with Europe? I have no idea how to fix your issue. However, my recommendation, until you can figure out a solution, is to just revert to your right wrist throttle control and speedometer eyeballing to verify your speed. Alternately, ride in "eco" mode and that should get you to where you want to be with regard to top speed and max torque.
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I have the app version 1.4.59 dated 14th Dec 2016.
Other issues: in drive mode the "kW" display only works in regen, the "Amps" shows always zero, and when charging the power/current only show "N/A" as other already noted. The 3 temperature values are not very accurate as can be checked after hours of storage at stable temperature where all 3 should be equal.
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I have the exact same problem. Custom parameters are not saved, and return immediately to default. Basically, custom mode is useless now.
Riding a 2014 FX
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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This behaviour happens only when the app is connected to the bike. If you play with the app offline, you can set the custom parameters and save them in the phone. As soon as it's connected again to the Zero, everything is reset. As if there was an issue with the Zero's firmware rather than with the app itself. This would also explain why some of us experience the issue and others not. We all have the same app but not the same machines (at least not the same serial numbers).
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Nothing in regards to the app, but a question you guys might have an answer to.
If I mimics the power output and regen of eco mode with my throttle hand,
is eco mode and simulating eco mode manually yielding the same end result in terms of increases range?
I don't like using eco or any other mode then custom with everything cranked up, since I don't have time to close the throttle to switch modes in heavy traffic, especially with 100% regen on closed throttle .
Rider7
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If I mimics the power output and regen of eco mode with my throttle hand,
is eco mode and simulating eco mode manually yielding the same end result in terms of increases range?
Yes, it's literally the same power output in any mode. The torque setting just changes the ratio of torque to throttle twist; it's just expressed as a percentage of the full rate (and the upper end limit ratio by extension).
I don't like using eco or any other mode then custom with everything cranked up, since I don't have time to close the throttle to switch modes in heavy traffic, especially with 100% regen on closed throttle .
I now always ride with a custom mode of: 100% torque with 0% max regen and 100% max brake regen.
This is after riding a Zero for three years, so I wouldn't recommend it for a while; get some fishtailing under your belt to make absolutely sure you know how that traction failure happens and how to recover.
It is manageable, though, because I always ride with a Crampbuster under the heel of my hand, so that I can fine-tune how much torque I'm using by feel. I also have an Atlas throttle friction lock on which reduces inefficiencies due to varying the throttle (seems like 5% range increase right there when I use it). I don't use the throttle lock in winter because I put muffs over the handles which makes it harder to operate and release.
Also, a throttle lock is dangerous on an electric motorcycle because any traction loss will probably fail catastrophically (the amount of time it takes to release the lock and ease the throttle back is less than the time it takes to lose control). But for straight-line highway miles, it's really just about perfect as a cruise control.
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Brian,
Thanks for your reply on that.
I thought so.
Energy consumption is governed by energy demanded or output no matter how it is throttled.
Either electronically or mechanically well and then still electronically by my brain ;)
I was't sure if the algorithm has some other energy saving tricks involved, but couldn't think of any, since the only energy consuming items are speed and acceleration demand from the throttle.
It literally makes eco or sport mode redundant for me than.
I like my brain being my only governor then, and it's good to know that I don't have to bother switching to achieve anything I cannot produce manually.
Thanks again.
Rider7
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I'm also unable to save my custom settings. Hoping that firmware upgrade tomorrow will fix it. I gather they can also set the custom settings when they're directly connected to the bike. Does anyone know what the settings are for the Eco and sport modes? If I've only got one chance to set teh custom numbers, it'd be nice to know what the Eco and Sport modes do as a frame.
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I have my top speed set to the max speed I can travel on the highway during my commute without getting a speeding ticket. It's like having a cruise control. I'm always in sport mode unless I am doing this or I need to conserve battery to make it to my destination.
What if you get in a situation where you have to go past this speed to get out of a dangerous situation? Like you are passing a car that suddenly starts to accelerate while you are next to it, then another car shows up coming towards you and the gap behind you got closed by someone else who also wants to pass... These kind of situations are rare, and I realize you are usually on the highway and might not have to consider meeting traffic like in this example, but incidents requiring more speed for safety reasons can happen. I would be careful limiting the top speed like that...
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incidents requiring more speed for safety reasons can happen
This is the typical saying of all drivers/riders who never have enough power and want to show a "rational/socially acceptable" explanation for their need.
More power/speed might help get you out of a dangerous situation in which you would never have fallen if you haden't that excess of power/speed. In other words, the more you have, the more risky you drive/ride, and the more you need for trying not to die/kill.
If you set custom max speed to 130km/h, instead of 150 (sport), you will already be able to tackle or exceed the legal speed limit on most motorways in the world. Except maybe in Germany.... If you had a smaller bike topping at 110, would you feel less safe than with one that can get to 130? It's all a matter of riding style and knowing your limits and thoses of your bike.
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incidents requiring more speed for safety reasons can happen
This is the typical saying of all drivers/riders who never have enough power and want to show a "rational/socially acceptable" explanation for their need.
More power/speed might help get you out of a dangerous situation in which you would never have fallen if you haden't that excess of power/speed. In other words, the more you have, the more risky you drive/ride, and the more you need for trying not to die/kill.
If you set custom max speed to 130km/h, instead of 150 (sport), you will already be able to tackle or exceed the legal speed limit on most motorways in the world. Except maybe in Germany.... If you had a smaller bike topping at 110, would you feel less safe than with one that can get to 130? It's all a matter of riding style and knowing your limits and thoses of your bike.
you're thinking kind of stupid. Just because my last bike had 200hp, did not mean I was going faster down the road.. I was still going 65 with all the other traffic. Except when some dumbass did a hail mary across the lines of a merge, I just twisted the throttle (didnt even downshift) and he went into the spot I was in that was behind me. I couldnt have slammed on the brakes, I would have been asspacked by the guy behind me. I couldnt change lanes completely, there was a car there... but having that additional power I just scooted out of the way. easy peasy.
I have had tons of situations where having overpowered bikes helped...and Ive also done tons of riding in the rain, some on ice/snow and never had a problem with it... The trick was hundreds of thousands of miles of experiance, a level head, and to actually work to be a better rider before you go buy the high hp bikes.
so while I wouldnt reccomend some kid go buy a high power sportbike, I can not support he blanket statement that more power is bad.
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Kudos, you are a superman!
Me not, rather a guy who thinks that doing as well with less power and energy consumption is a matter of survival of humanity at the end. Therefore I try using the bicycle and not the Zero for daily commuting. And since nobody is perfect, when I'm late at wake-up, I choose the Zero and appreciate it. However, 200HP is the power needed for a big truck, completely overkill for a light individual means of transportation.
What I said about "more power = more risky driving", you may consider it as being stupid, but think that it is exactly what you can see in insurance rates. The more power, the more expensive your insurance plan.
Insurance companies are not stupid, they are just financial companies that calculate the risk out of road accident statistics. And compute the rates to get in any case about the same income/outcome ratio.
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incidents requiring more speed for safety reasons can happen
This is the typical saying of all drivers/riders who never have enough power and want to show a "rational/socially acceptable" explanation for their need.
More power/speed might help get you out of a dangerous situation in which you would never have fallen if you haden't that excess of power/speed. In other words, the more you have, the more risky you drive/ride, and the more you need for trying not to die/kill.
If you set custom max speed to 130km/h, instead of 150 (sport), you will already be able to tackle or exceed the legal speed limit on most motorways in the world. Except maybe in Germany.... If you had a smaller bike topping at 110, would you feel less safe than with one that can get to 130? It's all a matter of riding style and knowing your limits and thoses of your bike.
Ok, set your bikes max speed to the speed limit of the local road as a cruise control if you think that is a good idea. I was just trying to give some friendly advice against it, and I surely have no irrational need for more power than what is necessary.
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Wide-Open-Throttle with the maximum speed as a cruise control I think it might waste some energy. Constant throttle less than the bike maximum speed limit setting, with throttle-off regen set to 0%, seems to be the most efficient for cruising. Speed will change with the hills and terrain and wind loading etc.
The "Cramp buster" is a very good way to avoid your throttle hand from getting tired and it helps for a smooth constant throttle. I have not tried any throttle-locking device, just the "Cramp buster" and it is good enough for me.
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I'll chime in to support using a real throttle control. I use a Crampbuster and an Atlas friction throttle lock, and the Crampbuster alone is good for smoothing out wrist motions to get a little better efficiency and not creep into a high speed situation. Basically you get a better feel feedback of the throttle position and it doesn't hurt that it's less strain.
An RPM or speed limit is very discomforting to me. Escaping a traffic situation on the highway seems like a critical scenario for me, and it's much more relaxing to just reduce or nearly eliminate wrist strain.
Throttle locks do have risks, but are easy to adjust while engaged if set properly. Spend $10 on a Crampbuster and you'll benefit one way or another.
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This would be so much more straight-forward if Zero provided an actual cruise control function. You could set your speed and maintain that without thinking about it (as opposed to a constant throttle opening), rest/move your right hand to avoid cramping, but still have full thrust available when you want it. All it would cost is a button and some firmware (and I'm an Electronics/Firmware Engineer, so don't get on me about how "firmware isn't free").
While you're at it, Zero, a very slow reverse would be quite useful too, for backing into/out of parking spots. Wouldn't even require another new button; when depressed at zero speed, the cruise control button could put you in reverse.
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BTR> I'll chime in to support using a real throttle control.
me too
Doug> While you're at it, Zero, a very slow reverse would be quite useful too, for backing into/out of parking spots. Wouldn't even require another new button; when depressed at zero speed, the cruise control button could put you in reverse.
I like that.