ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MostlyBonkers on January 21, 2016, 09:41:57 PM
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...and so it begins. Rather fitting that my first commute was at zero degrees Celsius!
My bike managed to fully charge last night, despite it being below zero when I plugged it in. All components were warm after my ride home but there was a chance that the area where the thermistor lives to monitor battery temperature might have cooled quickly. It must be buried deep within the battery pack somewhere I guess. It's good to know it won't stop charging half way on a cold night.
I got to work with 66% left. The first 15 miles dropped me down to 75%. Those were the quick roads. The last 9 miles to work used the next 9%. The whole trip was done in Eco mode. I plan to do the return in Sport mode tonight.
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Here's the bike plugged in at work:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160121/e96f236376f819e095e337b7157d19b1.jpg)
The GS next to mine is also plugged in. It's there for the winter:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160121/856460b5616a53f9e35863e20e8f3162.jpg)
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Looks like quite a few bikes at your place.
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Ride safe! Be careful with Sport Mode if there's a chance of ice or patchy oily pavement. If the wheel slips, you'll hear the motor spin up a bit; just ease off the throttle if it happens and it should recover. [I've experienced this in Seattle.]
I like that they kept the crash bars on the bike for you. They're a good safety feature and you can mount lighting or such to them.
Regarding cold, maybe we'll see people making "cozies" for the controller or battery to keep the range up.
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My Zero spun its tire while I was entering a freeway on-ramp the other day and the entire bike shook and wobbled. Kind of scary, but I just backed off the throttle a bit and it straightened up, calmed down and headed down the road in one piece. :)
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My Zero spun its tire while I was entering a freeway on-ramp the other day and the entire bike shook and wobbled. Kind of scary, but I just backed off the throttle a bit and it straightened up, calmed down and headed down the road in one piece. :)
Non-zero story, but the first day I had my CBR1000RR I got on the interstate with damp roads.. I rolled on the throttle (not snapped or anything) to go from the 30mph onramp speed up to the 70 of the traffic I had to merge with.
The rear tire spun up instantly, and I was drifting a bit with the tail out (from the crown in the road).
Turns out that I had picked up some trash from the on-ramp and punctured my rear tire... Had to buy a new rear tire, with only 10 miles on the bike so far... lol.
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Thanks for the tips Brian. I'm being very careful as I get used to the knobbly tyres.
I tried sport mode tonight. A different route as I had a meeting at Hatfield university, so it was straight up the A1. Approximately 22 miles with 62% left. About 13 miles were at high speed and I wasn't restricted to the 70mph limit that Eco mode imposes. I'm surprised at how stable the bike feels at all speeds, despite it being so much lighter than the VFR. This might sound daft, but even at this early stage it seems to corner better too!
Two people asked me about the bike on my journey.
It's going to be a little warmer tomorrow so I might try the M1 route I've been using for the best part of a year. I reckon I'll be lucky to get to work with 50%. I'm guessing it'll be more like 40%. I'm keen to try it even though it won't be my regular route from now on. On the DS it'll be a bit tiring spending 20 minutes at motorway speeds. I really noticed the wind resistance this evening.
I got the motor up to 92C tonight. This morning it topped out around 55 in Eco mode.
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Congrats mate I'd say pick up a windscreen to your liking asap makes motorway speeds much nicer and a bit warmer. Glad you like it.
Cheers
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Thanks new2. A screen is a must, I couldn't agree more! Take this morning, for example. The met office tells me it's 5C outside and I can hear the rain. As it's relatively warm this morning I'm planning to do my VFR route. Lack of any weather protection will make the ride a sado masochistic endeavor. I know I'd get wet on the VFR, mainly around the top of my chest. It would be tolerable though. The fairing certainly made a difference compared to riding the NC. I really want to see what a difference it makes on the DS, so I'll receive some punishment this morning. Retribution for some of the topics I've started perhaps? Direct from Zero too! [emoji6]
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My ride in wasn't anything like as bad as expected. I got wet a little, but not cold. The VFR run saw me end my journey with 45% charge left. That's more than I thought I'd have left but there was some traffic that kept me down at 70mph on the motorway for a little while.
The cold weather may have helped, but despite a good length of time at high speed, I didn't incur thermal management. The motor was up to 104C by the time I reached the end of the M1 so the little yellow light was flashing as a warning though. The motor cooled very quickly once I was off the throttle and into a 40mph zone. It had dropped to 83C within a few hundred yards. The distance between here:
Dropped pin
near M1, London NW4
https://goo.gl/maps/1ZEeTtE6FqJ2
And here:
Dropped pin
near Brent Cross, London
https://goo.gl/maps/Kx49YGrhyZt
I took the A1/M25 route home and ended up with 64% having used custom mode with everything at maximum. That's good considering Eco mode only gave me 66% on my first trip. The bike did start cold on that one though.
I like being able to charge at work. It may not last though as I'm changing jobs soon.
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A1 route to work and back. Both riding with fun rather than economy in mind. 55% left in the tank on my way in, 65% on my way home. I don't think wind speed or direction was a factor. I'll keep testing!
I haven't plugged in to charge tonight so tomorrow is a test at fully charging at work instead of just half a charge. Living dangerously...
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Sorry man that's not a good idea. You know you have enough power to get to work even going about as fast as your route allows and you know you can charge it at work and do the same ride home so why set yourself up to fail? Plenty of time for range tests on the weekend. My guess is that bike may need a few weeks of riding to fully balance that battery out. Good luck if do it but please only blame yourself if your stuck.
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Sorry man that's not a good idea. You know you have enough power to get to work even going about as fast as your route allows and you know you can charge it at work and do the same ride home so why set yourself up to fail? Plenty of time for range tests on the weekend. My guess is that bike may need a few weeks of riding to fully balance that battery out. Good luck if do it but please only blame yourself if your stuck.
Haha, just read this and there's no time to plug in and charge before going to work! I'm not worried at all really. I've got 65% charge and I'll take the A1 route that only uses 45% charge at most, according to yesterday's ride. Perhaps you got the impression that I was planning to take my M1 route? That would be cutting it very fine, as I did use 65% of my charge the other morning on that route.
I'll only run into trouble if I can't charge at work for some reason. Is that your concern? It's a very small risk to take, in my opinion. There is a higher risk that I may need to get home earlier than usual and I won't have enough charge. I just like the idea of getting work to pay for my fuel! [emoji4]
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Headwinds! Wow, what a difference they make!
I was on the motorway for a short stretch and the bike wouldn't do more than 75mph. It was on a slight incline, but still, I was surprised. I would have thought the bike has more than enough power to cope with some headwind.
The only other thing I can think of is whether the battery was able to provide enough juice to the controller. It felt mild this morning but it could have been as low as 7 or 8C when I left.
The only reason I'm thinking along those lines is because they reckon an 11kW engine in a 125cc ICE bike is good for 80mph. No doubt in ideal conditions of course. I would have thought the extra 29kW of power the electric motor can produce is more than enough to combat headwind and the kind of gradients you get on motorways. Maybe not!
The state of charge dropped very quickly on the fast bits and I found myself thinking about New2's advice from earlier. Still, I managed to get to work with 18% having started with 65%. I'm happy with that.
The motor's temperature hit 98C on the short stretch of motorway, which reminded me of my experience test riding the SR. As soon as I turned into a headwind, the motor temperature shot up in no time. It all makes sense of course. For my commute and the style of bike it really isn't a concern. I don't want to be spending any length of time at motorway speeds.
I'm really enjoying the DS. It feels like I'm gliding around town, it's so smooth, agile and just plain fun! [emoji4]
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Isn't the motor airduct something for you?
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One thing you should consider is, based upon my experience, if you run the battery down below 20% it will take much longer than expected to fully recharge. When I ran my PT-equipped Zero down to 0%, it took about 6 hours of charging to get the power level back up to 20% and then another 8 hours to fully recharge the pack. I didn't expect that. But fortunately I was at home and didn't need to ride the bike until the following morning.
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Keep in mind that the motor controller throttles back the amount of power available, starting at a surprisingly high SoC. I've never cracked open the firmware on my bike (though I am an EE and could easily do so, I just have no interest in doing it), but other people have posted that the throttling back starts as high as 70% SoC, and my experience does show that there is some reduction in power available even well above 50%. At 50%, available power is reduced again, and you'll find you won't be able to pull more than about 75 mph on level ground. At 20% SoC, power is reduced to the "limp-home" value and you'll only be able to maintain about 20 mph on the flat...a steep enough uphill can stall you. I'm not sure how this relates to mode, or if it does...it may just be maximum values laid out for all modes.
It's not clear to me if this is done to protect the batteries (whose safe maximum discharge rate is at least somewhat dependent on SoC), or to try to help the rider get home. If it's the former reason, I'm okay with it, if it's the latter reason, I'd just as soon make those decisions myself. I suspect it may be some combination of the two.
Also, Bonkers, if you didn't continuously go totally OCD all over this forum, you'd probably be more likely to receive answers to your serious questions when you ask them. I think there are a lot of people who have completely tuned you out by now, and I'm pretty close to doing so myself. Enthusiastic exuberance is a good thing, but only to a point.
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I've slept on your final paragraph Doug. For starters, I'm not OCD. Secondly, I hate bullshit and misinformation. Mostly, I hate the misperception that those two things create. It's what motivates me to post prolifically on this forum. It will ebb and flow as I'm in the honeymoon period with my Zero at the moment.
A few have said they'd be interested in hearing about my experiences. Whilst I have the energy, I'll continue. If people want to tune out, they can. Don't try and shut me down though. Just unsubscribe to this topic and ignore it if that's what you want to do.
I think you're wrong about the controller cutting power so aggressively depending on the state of charge. Certainly at very low states of charge. Possibly higher when it's very cold, but not in general use. Time will tell and I'll report my findings.
Fortunately this forum is mostly free of bullshit. There are a few people who don't like potentially thorny subjects being raised. It's all in the spirit of getting to the bottom of things, discovering the truth and giving those that would like to take the leap a clearer perspective. Having forums like this helps keep the manufacturers honest too. I'm looking at you VW! Zero seem pretty sound from what I can gather. That's why I bought one. The claimed range figures are way out though and it isn't right even though everyone else overestates them. Why not understate and have happy customers?
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Keep in mind that the motor controller throttles back the amount of power available, starting at a surprisingly high SoC. I've never cracked open the firmware on my bike (though I am an EE and could easily do so, I just have no interest in doing it), but other people have posted that the throttling back starts as high as 70% SoC, and my experience does show that there is some reduction in power available even well above 50%. At 50%, available power is reduced again, and you'll find you won't be able to pull more than about 75 mph on level ground. At 20% SoC, power is reduced to the "limp-home" value and you'll only be able to maintain about 20 mph on the flat...a steep enough uphill can stall you. I'm not sure how this relates to mode, or if it does...it may just be maximum values laid out for all modes.
That has not been my experience. I rode 126 km (round trip, no power tank) and on the ride home I did 100km/h on the final 10 km. I got home and SOC was 17% no power cut back that I could notice and definatly no "limp home" condition (unless 100km/h is "limp home").
70mph is faster than 100kph so I would not notice any cut back but you would think I would see the "limp home" condition for the last 3% (20% down to 17%) but I didn't.
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The night before last, I got home with 69% left. It was a cold night with frost and the SoC had dropped to 62% when I keyed the bike on in the morning. Normally there's no drop. The battery temperature was reported as 9C, but it can't have been much more than 0C as the air temperature was only 2-3C at the time.
The bike wouldn't do more than 70mph on the motorway with a slight incline. There was no headwind today. The battery power maxed at 20kWh, half the controller's capacity.
I can't help but think that cell temperature has the biggest influence over the voltage and current they can deliver. I would guess that the controller must be able to detect the battery pack's ability to provide power based on the voltage drop versus the current. State of Charge will affect that ability too as Doug alluded to.
I just need to wait for another cold morning to see what the bike manages at a higher SoC. I'll also try the same run from a lower SoC on a warmer day and report back.
I had hoped that the cell temperature would rise sufficiently under use that the chemistry would start working better and starting off with a cold battery pack wouldn't be much of an issue. That certainly wasn't the case after five miles, worth about half of that at speed. The indicated temperature had started to rise, but it probably takes longer for the cells to warm sufficiently. By that time I would have been in the city part of my commute.
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Is your bike garaged Bonkers? I'd be surprised if it got that cold in a garage.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
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Ride safe! Be careful with Sport Mode if there's a chance of ice or patchy oily pavement. If the wheel slips, you'll hear the motor spin up a bit; just ease off the throttle if it happens and it should recover. [I've experienced this in Seattle.]
I like that they kept the crash bars on the bike for you. They're a good safety feature and you can mount lighting or such to them.
Regarding cold, maybe we'll see people making "cozies" for the controller or battery to keep the range up.
I bought a heated blanket for mine, works great
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I keep it in my back garden under a cover.
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Keep in mind that the motor controller throttles back the amount of power available, starting at a surprisingly high SoC. I've never cracked open the firmware on my bike (though I am an EE and could easily do so, I just have no interest in doing it), but other people have posted that the throttling back starts as high as 70% SoC, and my experience does show that there is some reduction in power available even well above 50%. At 50%, available power is reduced again, and you'll find you won't be able to pull more than about 75 mph on level ground. At 20% SoC, power is reduced to the "limp-home" value and you'll only be able to maintain about 20 mph on the flat...a steep enough uphill can stall you. I'm not sure how this relates to mode, or if it does...it may just be maximum values laid out for all modes.
That has not been my experience. I rode 126 km (round trip, no power tank) and on the ride home I did 100km/h on the final 10 km. I got home and SOC was 17% no power cut back that I could notice and definatly no "limp home" condition (unless 100km/h is "limp home").
70mph is faster than 100kph so I would not notice any cut back but you would think I would see the "limp home" condition for the last 3% (20% down to 17%) but I didn't.
+1 Never had such cutout…(below 20%), my bike behaves ok speed wise, however I do agree about the power reduction just a little above 50% SOC, or below
I also read Doug comment on Bonkers, which is kind of surprising…Could you guys tell me what OCD means?
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OCD stands for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder nothing to do with motorcycles. Mostly does a few things out of what I believe is a natural curiosity mixed with a little nervous energy. Hopefully not getting him into trouble :) Electrical engineering and battery technology are pretty advanced subjects and it annoys the people who understand these concepts when novices (myself included) say and do things that experts know don't work or are not even in the ballpark of connected subjects. Their patience with us should be appreciated as their knowledge is one of the most valuable things on the forum. That being said new, novice people will be the ones that make or break not only electric motorcycles but all EV's as there are simply not enough EE buyers to support a company. We can and mostly do help each other.
p.s. Mostly, leave that thing plugged in. :)
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Thanks for clarifying...sometimes English acronyms give us (non-native) hard time ;) being fluent in a few languages makes the whole thing worse as everything gets mixed up in your head (a few years ago my wife told me I was talking in English while asleep :-[ ...and the bad news is that she also speaks it!!! ;D
Concerning your reply, you are spot on, could not agree more...
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One or two of my posts have been a bit crazy. I think I made a rod for my own back when I started going on about anxiety, perhaps a bit too much. I was genuinely trying to relieve other peoples' anxiety around charging. That's why I wrote the piece on lithium batteries. It got a lot of good comments and I was really pleased with it. However, the topic of anxiety kept coming up and I coined the term 'Obsessive Charging Disorder.' It backfired. I seem to have got a reputation for worrying too much. I've also posted one or two topics that have been interpreted as being mischievous. I've been searching for truths but at the same time I've brought some issues to the surface that may put the casual observer off. I've also managed to do it again in this topic by reporting on the loss of power at low temperatures. In my mind I'm just making honest observations which readers would appreciate if they're considering buying a Zero.
I have a good understanding of the fundamental principles involved and I think I've been right with my observations most of the time. One particular topic went down very badly with a couple of old timers here. Others felt I'd posed a fair question. It didn't end well.
I like to think that people have benefited from some of the topics I've raised and the discussions that we've had. I may have been a little over enthusiastic and a bit tiring to some.
Now I've finally got the bike, I'll probably settle down and not post as much. There's only so much I can write about commuting after all!
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@NEW2Elec: Thanks for explaining my shorthand. And I probably owe MostlyBonkers an apology for a public reproach (though I thought it was pretty mild).
I think we were all very excited when we found this forum, and for many of us it came out as many and frequent postings. That's great, enthusiasm for our field should be encouraged!
But I have to admit I get a little frustrated when I log on after a couple days' absence and have to sift through 90 mostly just chatty postings to see if there's real new information. There are over 2000 members on this forum (though I'm sure not all active), and the signal-to-noise ratio could get very high very fast if we don't show some restraint. I sincerely hope this stays a reasonably technical forum, not a facebook-style social space.
I don't by any means want to discourage people from posting -- quite the contrary! I got impatient and said something in public I shouldn't have. As I said to Bonkers when he contacted me privately (which is how my original message should have been), if you have something to say, by all means, say it! If you have a question, by all means, ask it! And if you have any sort of information that may be of use to anybody else, please share it! But if it's effectively just "hey guys, wanted to say hi and that I still love electric motorcycles!", perhaps that sort of message should be toned down after the "new" wears off.
I do apologize for losing my patience, Bonkers, and for making my comment public. I really hope I haven't offended you or anybody else. We're all entitled to our stupid opinions. ;D
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It's all good man you be you. I agree with you that typed words lack the vocal inflection to truly get someone's full meaning. It could sound like a insulting put down or an attempt at a joke or sarcasm or just chiming in. I hope that my post showed what I think which is everyone's opinions and comments and posts have value. We may not all agree on each idea or solution to whatever problem but the larger the group that works on any issue the faster it will be fixed. Zero just emailed me a survey last night and I actually did it which is rare. My opinions about what direction the company should go will be added to the pile and may be used or might not but if you don't tell them they will never know. The new IPM motor is for sure a fix to a problem the got complaints about.
And just to be clear the "trouble" I talked about in my other post was you living on the edge and going half charged. Just don't want to see you (or anyone) get stuck. I drained mine when I first got it as a test going back and forth up my subdivision street and when it died it was a spooky feeling. The bike gets heavy pushing it real fast and it's rather embarrassing.
I got mine out today sunny 57F and was again reminded of how much I love the thing.
If I ever make it across the pond I'll buy ya a gallon or a pint or liter or whatever :)
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Thanks Doug, I really appreciate that. I must admit I was taken aback, but I do get your point.
Thanks New2 also, I don't think anything you said upset me.
I'm a bit embarrassed by all of this. It's kind of you both to take the time to put me right.
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@NEW2Elec: Thanks for explaining my shorthand. And I probably owe MostlyBonkers an apology for a public reproach (though I thought it was pretty mild).
I think we were all very excited when we found this forum, and for many of us it came out as many and frequent postings. That's great, enthusiasm for our field should be encouraged!
But I have to admit I get a little frustrated when I log on after a couple days' absence and have to sift through 90 mostly just chatty postings to see if there's real new information. There are over 2000 members on this forum (though I'm sure not all active), and the signal-to-noise ratio could get very high very fast if we don't show some restraint. I sincerely hope this stays a reasonably technical forum, not a facebook-style social space.
I don't by any means want to discourage people from posting -- quite the contrary! I got impatient and said something in public I shouldn't have. As I said to Bonkers when he contacted me privately (which is how my original message should have been), if you have something to say, by all means, say it! If you have a question, by all means, ask it! And if you have any sort of information that may be of use to anybody else, please share it! But if it's effectively just "hey guys, wanted to say hi and that I still love electric motorcycles!", perhaps that sort of message should be toned down after the "new" wears off.
I do apologize for losing my patience, Bonkers, and for making my comment public. I really hope I haven't offended you or anybody else. We're all entitled to our stupid opinions. ;D
I got pretty upset (to say the least) with some of the replies Bonkers got a few weeks ago...and although I said I disagreed with some of his ideas/rational, it was pretty bad as it showed a total lack of respect for him. Disappointing. I asked to these individuals to apology, none did.
As a good latin, sometimes I make statements which I regret afterwards...and I apologize, nobody is perfect, but it makes a big difference.
By no means you reached such level in your comments, and you have apologized, also with a good rational behind.
A few beers as suggested by NEW2elec will resolve this in a very effective way...if you guys ever show up in Barcelona, I'm buying!!
It looks like we have a gentleman in the forum. Thanks Doug :)
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Thank you Lipo. Barcelona? I'd love to go there one day. It may be in a few years and on a (hopefully) a more modern Zero with fairing and fast charging built in, but it would be great to take you up on that offer! Of course, if any of you get an opportunity to visit London, then the same offer stands.
It's all water under the bridge now as far as I'm concerned. I've learnt a few lessons now, which means we can all move on. Harmony and balance will be restored. [emoji4]
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I you ever show up (as anyone else) you will be welcomed...(actually a forum member from Australia came to Barcelona with his family last year (great people by the way). We had a lovely tapas dinner altogether :)
I used to travel to London some time ago...will let you know if I have any plans again
Zero has got a dealer in Barcelona, so you might be able to ride electric ;)
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With ICE bikes you need to warm up the engine before going full power.
With electric bikes you need to warm up the batteries to go full power.
That's one of the features that Zero should copy from Brammo in their new models: battery heaters!
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I tested my 2015 SR out the other day (about 24 degrees C) after I had ridden 220 km (speed was below 60km/h the whole trip). At 8% SOC it accelerated to 100km/h no problem (it seemed to have full acceleration, no power cut back that I could feel). I got it to 120km/h no worries. At 6% I could feel the power was cut back to about a standard S. At 4% it just got to 113km/h (just). At 2% it couldn't do 113km/h but I got it to 100km/h (only just). Just when I expected it to drop to 1% it went strait to 0% but sill predicted I had 9km of rage left??? At 0% I could still do > 60km/h.
My SR is nothing like you describe! Maybe its all down to the temp of your batter pack. My bike lives inside the house so it's battery is always warm, even if it drops to 2 or 3 degrees C over night the battery will be at 15 degrees C or so.
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Thanks grmarks, some great info there.
I think we can safely conclude that battery temperature is a much bigger variable for performance versus state of charge. To be fair to Doug though, I think firmware updates over the years have probably changed the behavior somewhat.
The good thing is that even on cold mornings I can rely on my Zero to do motorway speeds.
I'm looking forward to resuming my commute on my Zero now that it's back in action.
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Keep in mind that the motor controller throttles back the amount of power available, starting at a surprisingly high SoC. I've never cracked open the firmware on my bike (though I am an EE and could easily do so, I just have no interest in doing it), but other people have posted that the throttling back starts as high as 70% SoC, and my experience does show that there is some reduction in power available even well above 50%. At 50%, available power is reduced again, and you'll find you won't be able to pull more than about 75 mph on level ground. At 20% SoC, power is reduced to the "limp-home" value and you'll only be able to maintain about 20 mph on the flat...a steep enough uphill can stall you. I'm not sure how this relates to mode, or if it does...it may just be maximum values laid out for all modes.
It's not clear to me if this is done to protect the batteries (whose safe maximum discharge rate is at least somewhat dependent on SoC), or to try to help the rider get home. If it's the former reason, I'm okay with it, if it's the latter reason, I'd just as soon make those decisions myself. I suspect it may be some combination of the two.
The weather is warmer since I started this topic and with some more experience under my belt I have to say that Doug wasn't far off with his comments above. Above 70% SoC the log entries look like this:
02806 2016-04-10 17:18:05 Riding - pack: h 22C, l 21C, 101.974V, 74% SOC | motor: 89C, 2940rpm | controller: 42C, | power delivery: battery 207A, motor 20A
02807 2016-04-10 17:19:05 Riding - pack: h 22C, l 21C, 105.336V, 73% SOC | motor: 89C, 1884rpm | controller: 41C, | power delivery: battery 24A, motor 53A
Below 70% SoC, they start looking like this:
02812 2016-04-10 17:21:05 Riding - pack: h 23C, l 22C, 98.929V, 69% SOC | motor: 112C, 4889rpm | controller: 62C, | power delivery: battery 176A, motor 149A
02813 2016-04-10 17:21:05 Battery discharge current limited to 580A
If you own an SR, which has a 660A controller, then it is effectively limiting it's maximum draw from the battery to less than it's maximum capacity. However, that isn't necessarily going to result in reduced performance. In the example above, the draw on the battery is only 176A at that moment in time. If the rider were to stop and do a 0-60 when below 70% SoC, it *might* take a little longer than from a full charge. Whether or not the rider would notice is debatable.
If you own an S or DS, which has a 440A controller, then you'll be getting maximum performance down to a much lower SoC.
02901 2016-04-10 17:52:05 Riding - pack: h 31C, l 29C, 96.843V, 29% SOC | motor: 71C, 3689rpm | controller: 32C, | power delivery: battery 118A, motor 118A
02902 2016-04-10 17:52:05 Battery discharge current limited to 429A
02903 2016-04-10 17:53:05 Riding - pack: h 31C, l 30C, 98.997V, 27% SOC | motor: 72C, 3176rpm | controller: 31C, | power delivery: battery 203A, motor 191A
02904 2016-04-10 17:53:05 Battery discharge current limited to 403A
02905 2016-04-10 17:54:05 Riding - pack: h 31C, l 30C, 98.978V, 27% SOC | motor: 71C, 2069rpm | controller: 30C, | power delivery: battery 219A, motor 188A
02906 2016-04-10 17:54:05 Battery discharge current limited to 422A
The battery has dropped below 30% SoC in the extract above and this is where the battery discharge current is limited to less than 440A. Here are some further entries as I got to the end of this particular journey:
02955 2016-04-10 18:19:05 Riding - pack: h 32C, l 30C, 95.813V, 12% SOC | motor: 63C, 1101rpm | controller: 27C, | power delivery: battery 7A, motor 29A
02956 2016-04-10 18:19:05 Battery discharge current limited to 264A
02957 2016-04-10 18:20:05 Riding - pack: h 32C, l 30C, 95.176V, 11% SOC | motor: 65C, 2653rpm | controller: 29C, | power delivery: battery 227A, motor 220A
02958 2016-04-10 18:20:05 Battery discharge current limited to 181A
02959 2016-04-10 18:21:05 Riding - pack: h 32C, l 30C, 95.262V, 11% SOC | motor: 66C, 1506rpm | controller: 28C, | power delivery: battery 230A, motor 188A
02960 2016-04-10 18:21:05 Battery discharge current limited to 195A
02961 2016-04-10 18:22:05 Riding - pack: h 32C, l 30C, 95.073V, 11% SOC | motor: 66C, 97rpm | controller: 27C, | power delivery: battery 0A, motor 0A
02962 2016-04-10 18:22:05 Battery discharge current limited to 227A
02963 2016-04-10 18:23:05 Riding - pack: h 32C, l 30C, 95.276V, 11% SOC | motor: 61C, 0rpm | controller: 26C, | power delivery: battery 0A, motor 0A
02964 2016-04-10 18:23:05 Battery discharge current limited to 242A
02965 2016-04-10 18:23:12 b'DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode'
There is a noticeable drop in performance at this point.
On my way home I have a couple of stretches of high speed roads where my SoC is consistently under 30%. My speed is restricted to 80mph on these sections, sometimes less. Generally speaking though, I can count on reaching 70mph until I'm well under 20% SoC. That happens to be the national speed limit on motorways here in the UK, so I think that's pretty good.
I've also ridden a few times in freezing temperatures since then and at high SoC the bike managed 80mph or more. So I take back what I said in my last post. I've no doubt that temperature does have an effect, but even in warm weather, SoC is a very significant variable when it comes to how much current the battery can deliver. I can only speak for 2014 models though. The battery design and chemistry develops every year and so I'm sure 2015/6 models will behave differently. From others' posts on this forum it sounds like the batteries keep performing well much lower down the SoC curve.
I suppose what matters most is that it doesn't bother me at all when I'm riding. I'm only really posting this to give credit to Doug and set things straight.
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Just to confuse matters further, the last couple of evenings have been really cold here in the UK. I arrived at the M25 with 32% SoC last night and the bike wouldn't go over 70mph. It had dropped to about 67 when I reached the exit after a couple of miles. On my final stretch of fast road the bike was doing about 63mph with about 18% SoC.
The sudden snap of cold weather has definitely reduced the maximum power delivered at certain charge levels. I could tell by the ride even without noting the figures.
It'll be interesting to see the difference on hot days when they eventually get here!
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Are the 2014's the 11.4kw battery? Are they being swapped out for 12.5's like the 2013's?
I'm very curious to see how my '13 behaves after the battery swap. In particular how much performance is cut when the charge gets low. (70mph constant until just a few blocks from my place. Was scarey having to ride the shoulder at 40-50mph once when I was low.. Still made it home, but was crawling)
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The 14's are 11.4kwh but I think the cells are different so they aren't being swapped. That must be costing a fortune! It's good that they're doing it.
Hopefully you'll get a firmware update and you'll notice a big difference all round.