ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: rayivers on June 14, 2015, 05:46:46 PM
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I'm never gonna try this again. :)
After using the app to change these settings, I pulled up to the first stop sign and used a little front brake, as I normally do. It felt like I'd used both brakes quite hard - surprising and a little scary, very different from the usual engine-braking regen feeling. The bike also made a sound I'd never heard from it before, similar to a transformer being hit with a large current surge - like a momentary hum pulse.
After two more brake applications in the next 1/2 mile, the bike coasted to a stop with normal dash indications, and mode cycling had no effect. This is the '14 FX I bought new, and never had a second's trouble with before. Some milestones are better than others. :( I powered off/on, the bike woke up, and I turned around to go home - then it happened again at the next stop (I'd cycled back to Custom, like a dumbass). Eco got me home OK.
I changed it to 30% regen / 70% brake regen (my OEM Custom settings were 40% / 66%) and took the bike out for about 20 min. in Custom mode, no problems at all. Fingers crossed.
Ray
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I don't think I need to tell you that, that is not normal for the bike. Did the rear wheel skid at all when you used the brake? I am not an expert on these systems as of yet but my guess is that somehow the regen was set on the controller much higher than 70%. Zero has the app tuned to what they feel 0% - 100% should be and this is not the max regen of the controller; I would guess 100% in the app is like 30% on the controller. So what I am thinking is that something allowed the controller to shoot way over the normal extents of the app. You may want to check with Zero to see if there are any firmware updates to be done to your bike. Just my thoughts.
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I agree. I have been running 0% regen on closed throttle and 100% regen on braking for the past year without a problem on my 2014 S. I love this setup. It gets me the best mileage and offers a smooth ride with less on-off throttle action. :)
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I agree. I have been running 0% regen on closed throttle and 100% regen on braking for the past year without a problem on my 2014 S. I love this setup. It gets me the best mileage and offers a smooth ride with less on-off throttle action. :)
I have my '14SR set up the same way; it took some getting used to, but I believe it does improve overall efficiency.
*** Added safety bonus is that you have no regen-braking without the brake light being on!
When I ride the '12DS now, I have to consciously use the "carefully-hold-throttle-between-regen-and-acceleration" method when I wish to "coast"...
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Benswing rode my bike the other day which is set up to coast on roll off, 0% regen on brake light, and a dynamic hydraulic clutch acting as a "foot brake" with control over the engine braking.
I have been running this setup for a while now and if you commute a lot you would love it. I treat my bike like a bicycle when I ride it and coast as much as I can. When I want to slow down just a little I do so using the left lever, if I want do some more serious braking I pull my front brake lever in a little bit (just enough to get lights on) and squeeze my left lever hard for full engine braking. Still not enough? then I squeeze front brake as well to assist knowing the slower I go the more the engine braking will amp up (pun intended)
Having done a stock setup on a 2013, an eco setup like sport mode, and the stock sport mode there is nothing better than the regen lever if you put on a lot of miles regularly. When I get another Zero it is going to be the first mod I do as it seems at this point it would be foolish not to have this level of control over an electric vehicle.
Ben might be able to give some insight to his feelings after riding my bike yesterday.
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Hey guys; FYI, I fitted a "GearBrake" to my 14 DS last week and it is so far working like a dream. It activates the brake lights with a triple flash AND more importantly for "regen-ers", also activates under rapid deceleration. I wrote a little review and added a video here http://motoelectro.com.au/very-cool-device-for-ebike-owners/ (http://motoelectro.com.au/very-cool-device-for-ebike-owners/)
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It's quite possible it could be the firmware (mid-2014, at a guess), as apparently that's what determines the "normal" operation of any given Zero with no other issues. I tried the 0/100 thing on my other MX bike (firmware upgraded Oct. and Dec. 2014) a while ago with no problems, just the coasting & moderately-enhanced braking I expected. This did not work for me in the dirt, but was very cool on the street.
If a dealer pops up close enough I might consider a firmware upgrade for the FX, but otherwise I'm leaving it alone and hoping for the best. Having managed to turn one marginally-operating bike into something I'm real happy with, I have no desire to reverse the process with my other one.
Ray
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On my 2013 FX setting the app regen to 100% gives 25% max at the controller.
I always use 0% and 100% as my ECO settings because when i want to coast I want the coasting as free as possible. I use 0% and 60% (15% max at controller) as my SPORT settings (programmed by Harlan) because sometimes the ECO 100% slides the rear wheel on loose dirt.
Trikester
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What is 100% "regen" Nm / ftlbs on a stock bike ? (Might vary for different years and models I would imagine)
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What is 100% "regen" Nm / ftlbs on a stock bike ? (Might vary for different years and models I would imagine)
According to the display on the app, 100% braking regen is -16 ft/lbs on my '14 SR.
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According to the display on the app, 100% braking regen is -16 ft/lbs on my '14 SR.
Ooo good info ... Is that at all speeds? Like if you could check at 70,55,45,35,25,10 etc?
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I didn't ride the bike to work today but if I remember I'll take notice of it next time I take it out. Been raining a lot here these last few days.
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In the stock set-up, regen does taper off at low speeds and then quit at lower speeds. I had Harlan reprogram this for me so I could go slower and still have high regen at very low speeds. As I recall the tapering off started at about 15 mph in the factory set-up and quit completely at about 5 mph.
Trikester
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Ooo good info ... Is that at all speeds? Like if you could check at 70,55,45,35,25,10 etc?
Rain finally held off long enough for me to get some riding time in. Due to traffic, I was only able to get up to 85 mph so I don't know if there is less regen at 90+ mph. I performed each test by pulling the front brake lever enough to activate the brake lights and regen but without involving the mechanical brakes. Here's what I found out:
~80-85 mph = -10 ft/lbs
~70 mph = -11 ft/lbs
~60 mph = -12 ft/lbs
~50 mph = -14 ft/lbs
~45-15 mph = -16 ft/lbs
15-10 mph = -10 ft/lbs
10-8 mph = -4 ft/lbs
<8 mph = 0 ft/lbs (no regen braking at these speeds)
Other interesting things I learned:
-The regen does not taper on but it does taper off at lower speeds. For example, I slowed from 81 mph to 50 mph (without releasing the brake lever) and the entire time the app showed -10 ft/lbs. My super accurate butt-accelerometer confirms that there was no increase in regen. It wasn't until I let off the brakes long enough to deactivate the regen and reapplied them that the regen would increase (also confirmed by app and butt-accelerometer).
-During a full battery, cold motor, full throttle pull from 0 mph, the app shows a peak torque of 144 ft/lbs at approx 35 mph. That's well north of 106 ft/lbs all the marketing materials claim.
-The speedometer on the app does not show the same speed as the dash. It consistently reads about 10% slow. For example, dash claimed 77 mph, app 70mph, dash 40 mph/app 36 mph, dash 30 mph/app 27 mph. This was the case at all speeds and was not due to lag or refresh rate of the app. Maintaining a constant speed confirmed this to be the case.
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This is very helpful.
Now I need to get my ipad, or buy a new smart phone, to get my numbers to compare.
I know the numbers from the regen lever (programmatically in the controller it is set up as a "foot brake") are going to be different. Last I tested it (which was a while ago) I think I go -9ft/lbs at 75 for example but at slower speeds it was about -38ft/lbs
I will see what I can rig up to confirm these numbers and see if I have a similar behavior with the releasing vs holding. As I recall though I can "hold" the regen lever in steady and as I slow it will definitely increase the slower I get.
I have mine to taper off at 0 rpm starting at 500 if I recall so I can come to a complete stop with the regen lever alone.
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Other interesting things I learned:
-The regen does not taper on but it does taper off at lower speeds. For example, I slowed from 81 mph to 50 mph (without releasing the brake lever) and the entire time the app showed -10 ft/lbs.
This confirms what I posted just above your posting.
Trikester