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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: JaimeC on March 24, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
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My first real issue with my 2016 Zero S since I brought it home nearly two years ago. According to the EXCELLENT log parser tool at https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/browser-parse/zero-log-parser.html I have a chassis isolation fault on cells 0 & 3. The dealer will be coming to pick it up on Wednesday.
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Those messages appear in my logs regularly. I think there's no need to worry about them. The bike constantly tries to measure insulation against all of the cells, however insulation measurment is kind of a tricky thing. You'll need very high voltages to get accurate values when trying to measure high resistances. In germany, we use 1000 V devices for measurements of electric tools etc. I guess Zero doesn't have such a device on their bike, so they rely on simpler methods, which sometimes generates warnings which is what you see in your log.
If I remember correctly, there is also a dash error code once there is a serious insulation error which needs to be taken care of.
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This was pointed out to me on Facebook. As I responded there, the warning light has been flashing incessantly since the last time I parked it. That's the only reason i downloaded the logs and those were the only errors I found on a quick glance of the output. By the way, I also discovered I have Firmware Revision 52, which is also the one that started having issues with the SOC, projected range and discharge readouts. From what I've been hearing, Revision 53 is current, but not only doesn't fix those problems, but introduces even more.
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I also had the isolation errors, which eventually resulted in the bike not arming the speed regulator any more. Turned out that if the on-board chargers is flaky then the isolation errors show. Had me puzzled because I fail to see any connection between cell-to-chassis isolation and the charger but hey, the replacement seemed to have fixed my problems so i'm not complaining anymore :P
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They just hauled my bike away. Guess I'll find out what's wrong soon enough. I'll keep everyone posted.
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My MY13 SR I replaced use to freak out in the rain ... and I would ignore it.
The overheating, error, and green light would all flash at different frequencies and counts ... this was caused by an isolation error and who knows what else because I chose to ride in the rain / snow / sleet / etc. Thankfully this only tended to happen with a good down pour or after an hour of riding in a moderate rain.
On my new MY17 DSR I was in very light rain and the bike error code started to flash at me (I now ride with A set to error code because of this) and it was throwing a 20 error code ... BMS isolation ... go figure. When the bike dried out it was fine.
I did see water on my SBS75X connector but didn't bother looking over all the bike connectors to see which had water in them. I plan to better isolate the bikes connectors from water / weather in the future as I don't like weather caused errors :/
What error code was your bike throwing to the display?
Oh, and my firmware is not up to date (thank gods) so I don't have the range / soc issues that come with it being updated. :D
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Just got off the phone with the dealer. Apparently they had to call the factory to discuss the errors they found in the logs. They're waiting to get a call back. It is 3:12 PM Eastern time on March 30. Let's see how long this takes, and what the problem turns out to be...
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Zero has apparently been rather unresponsive on this. The service department is escalating the issue with the dealership principals to see if they can get a response. This sucks big time...
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Spoke to the owner of the dealership. He told me they've place SIX calls in to Zero and have yet to receive any kind of a response. He is going to raise "Holy Hell" with them when they open on Monday and will get back to me. I'll keep everyone posted.
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Haven't yet heard back from the dealer, but I used the "Customer Contact" link on Zero's web page to E-Mail them about the situation. I received an automated response back at 11:16 AM this morning saying that my information was "shared with the appropriate Zero Motorcycles representative."
They also gave a couple of phone numbers to call, but I'll hold off on that for 48 hours. If I don't hear anything from either them or the dealer, however, I WILL be calling.
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Latest update. Spoke to both the Service Manager and the owner principal and both told me they've started calling Zero every two hours for two days straight, without getting any callback. Finally, they spoke to their regional Zero representative who was apparently both surprised and appalled at this story.
They told me to call the dealership on Monday at 11:00. If they haven't heard anything from Zero they will give me a name and number that I can call DIRECTLY and unload on. We're going on a month now with NOTHING happening.
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Zero has a severe issue going on with 2012 bikes being recalled due to fire risk, so I'm not too surprised at all to hear that it is hard to get a hold of them the past few weeks. Did you ask the dealer to turn on the bike to see if the isolation issues went away? If so I would pick it up for now and take it home to ride and bring it back in a few weeks, or when all this recall stuff settles down.
Any time my bike gets wet I have isolation flashes for a couple days but they always go away eventually so I don't worry about it too much. I wish Zero could hire more people in their service department, but with the limited resources, I totally get why its hard to get a hold of them right now. Another 2012 bike in the UK caught fire Friday, so I'm sure the next 2 weeks, anyone who was not on this before, will be now calling 2012 owners and arranging pickup. So if it was hard to get a hold of them the last 2-3 weeks, it will be even harder this next week since the fire Friday. This is perhaps the most serious thing Zero has ever faced and so most other things are being put on the backburner temporarily. So just be patient with them right now. That's why I just suggest taking your bike home from the dealer for now so you can ride it and bring it back in a few weeks.
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I would BUT the last time I rode it, it also made a very strange sound. Considering how quiet it usually is, I found that to be very unnerving...
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Gotcha, ok makes sense. Hopefully someone from Zero will get back to your dealer soon. I hate thinking about being without your bike for too much longer right at the beginning of spring.
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Spoke to the Service Manager and he said they FINALLY spoke to a Zero technician. They are hoping to have an update for me today at 2:00 Eastern time.
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Latest update: Zero got it down to two components. They are expecting an E-Mail that will hopefully distinguish between the two. Hmmm, according to the text, they should've gotten that E-Mail by now...
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Well, mystery solved and THANK GOD it happened in the warranty period (which just expired on Monday). Zero diagnosed the issue as the MOTOR going bad! By Friday we should know when to expect delivery of the replacement motor. That explains the strange sound I was hearing as well as a lot of the "faults" in the log.
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Remember to follow the maintenance schedule on the new motor, and get it commissioned after some (600?) miles break-in period. Note the timing degrees before and after that procedure (you will need to guide your dealer's technician to help you obtain this information).
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Remember to follow the maintenance schedule on the new motor, and get it commissioned after some (600?) miles break-in period. Note the timing degrees before and after that procedure (you will need to guide your dealer's technician to help you obtain this information).
Thank you for that reminder. I may not have remembered and I doubt the dealer would either (unless Zero reminded him first).
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Doesn't seem like the new motor has left the factory yet.
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My first real piece of good news: The new motor left the factory on Monday and should be here by Friday. Fingers crossed!
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The dealership called to let me know they received my replacement motor. I may have my bike back TOMORROW!!
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The dealership called to let me know they received my replacement motor. I may have my bike back TOMORROW!!
Great news!
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NATURALLY there is an 80% chance of thunderstorms today. God hates me... :(
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You can't make this stuff up. I didn't hear from the dealer yesterday so I called them today. The new motor is installed and working HOWEVER, when the mechanic was moving the bike, he backed it too close to a post and snapped off the footpeg!! So now I'm waiting for a replacement footpeg which they are expecting tomorrow (they had it express delivered).
He also confirmed that the bike will have to be brought back in after 600 miles to be recommissioned (just like a new bike). The new motor also comes with a warranty and they'll go over all of that once the bike can be picked up.
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The new motor also comes with a warranty and they'll go over all of that once the bike can be picked up.
Very interesting. When my motor was replaced last year, I received literally nothing. I mean I got my bike and keys back and a verbal that they changed the motor, but not a single piece of paper.
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You can't make this stuff up. ...when the mechanic was moving the bike, he backed it too close to a post and snapped off the footpeg!!...
The footpeg snapped off backing into a "post"? :o Can you share a clear picture of the damage?
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I was just thinking the same thing myself ... "snapped a foot peg" to me means frame damage.
I have broke some rear sets before (custom made) when dropping my bike in an ice storm but was able to weld it back together (welding 3/8" aluminum is fun btw) and simply use another threaded hole for the peg.
But I cannot imagine the stock pegs being so weak or breaking without taking some of the frame with it.
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I was just thinking the same thing myself ... "snapped a foot peg" to me means frame damage.
I have broke some rear sets before (custom made) when dropping my bike in an ice storm but was able to weld it back together (welding 3/8" aluminum is fun btw) and simply use another threaded hole for the peg.
But I cannot imagine the stock pegs being so weak or breaking without taking some of the frame with it.
The stock footpegs are very fragile. I dropped my Zero when stopped and the right rider's footpeg snapped off clean at the pivot point. It is made of really cheap pot-metal. There was absolutely no damage to the frame or the footpeg mount. However, not only are replacement footpegs are quite cheap, but they are just about the same as the passenger footpeg and one of those can be substituted for the rider's footpeg if necessary. Replacement only takes a few minutes.
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It is made of really cheap pot-metal.
I wonder if that's intentional. Having to replace a cheap bracket that broke is a lot better than replacing several bent parts. Kind of a shear pin arrangement to keep other parts from getting damaged.
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The new motor also comes with a warranty and they'll go over all of that once the bike can be picked up.
Very interesting. When my motor was replaced last year, I received literally nothing. I mean I got my bike and keys back and a verbal that they changed the motor, but not a single piece of paper.
I'd check with your dealer. I find it hard to believe a part that expensive would be installed WITHOUT some kind of warranty ESPECIALLY if it is a new component straight from the manufacturer.
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You can't make this stuff up. ...when the mechanic was moving the bike, he backed it too close to a post and snapped off the footpeg!!...
The footpeg snapped off backing into a "post"? :o Can you share a clear picture of the damage?
No, because it is at the dealer.
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I was just thinking the same thing myself ... "snapped a foot peg" to me means frame damage.
I have broke some rear sets before (custom made) when dropping my bike in an ice storm but was able to weld it back together (welding 3/8" aluminum is fun btw) and simply use another threaded hole for the peg.
But I cannot imagine the stock pegs being so weak or breaking without taking some of the frame with it.
The stock footpegs are very fragile. I dropped my Zero when stopped and the right rider's footpeg snapped off clean at the pivot point. It is made of really cheap pot-metal. There was absolutely no damage to the frame or the footpeg mount. However, not only are replacement footpegs are quite cheap, but they are just about the same as the passenger footpeg and one of those can be substituted for the rider's footpeg if necessary. Replacement only takes a few minutes.
Exactly. The pegs are the exact same part used by the Buell XB models (except for the Ulysses), and as the passenger pegs on the 1125R models. They are "sacrificial lambs" to protect the rest of the frame.
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The stock footpegs are very fragile.
Even the DS rider footpegs?
Either way good to know ... might order a couple to have on hand in case I need them.
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The stock footpegs are very fragile.
Even the DS rider footpegs?
Either way good to know ... might order a couple to have on hand in case I need them.
When I ordered two replacement footpegs for my "S", I got the impression that all of the Zero footpegs are pretty much the same. There is a slight difference between the passenger and the rider's footpegs, but I had no problem installing the passenger pegs on to the rider peg mounting bracket. The only irritation was getting the return spring installed. I think I needed a screwdriver or pliers to lever the spring on to the replacement peg.
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Just looked up some images of the SR foot pegs ... they do look really close to the passenger pegs ... but the DSR pegs are completely different for sure. The DSR and the FX share the same foot pegs.
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Just looked up some images of the SR foot pegs ... they do look really close to the passenger pegs ... but the DSR pegs are completely different for sure. The DSR and the FX share the same foot pegs.
They are not 'quite' the same but you can swap them in a pinch. (ask me how I know... ;) )
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And the saga continues.
Zero sent the dealer a software fix that is supposed to solve the Charging/Range issues we've all been bitching about for about a year now. They installed it, but when they tested it, the first crack of the "throttle" resulted in the motor running WFO. He says Zero analyzed the logs, figured out the glitch, and will be sending a fix today.
My question: Why is MY bike the guinea pig?? Don't they test these things BEFORE having them installed on customer bikes? Seriously... WTF???
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And the saga continues.
Zero sent the dealer a software fix that is supposed to solve the Charging/Range issues we've all been bitching about for about a year now. They installed it, but when they tested it, the first crack of the "throttle" resulted in the motor running WFO. He says Zero analyzed the logs, figured out the glitch, and will be sending a fix today.
My question: Why is MY bike the guinea pig?? Don't they test these things BEFORE having them installed on customer bikes? Seriously... WTF???
I looked at the logs of my 2018 S with PT, purchased in November 2017, and it looked to me like the bike had been tested at the factory for about a month before I bought it. The logs went back about a month before my dealer ever received it from the factory. ??? So far, I haven't had a real problem and I have the latest BMS and MMB firmware revisions 31 installed. As near as I can tell, the firmware updates seem to have no effect upon how my bike runs, all they seem to do is to eliminate the amount of battery condition information displayed on the Zero app. :(
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Still dead. Someone on Facebook suggested I start looking into New York's lemon laws and just get a refund. From what I can see, though, that will screw the dealer and NOT Zero. I happen to like this dealer and they service my other two motorcycles (BMWs) so I would rather not get on their bad side. This is really starting to piss me off, though.
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Got fed up with waiting and called Zero directly (their customer support number is on the bottom of their "Owners" page). The guy I spoke to was "California Pleasant" despite my temper on the phone. He was as good as his word when he said he'd have a tech call my dealer right away. Just heard from my dealer that they're on the phone with Zero right now. My dealer tells me he has four other Zero customers all pretty much in the same boat I'm in. He wasn't even sure for which bike they were calling until they gave him my VIN.
Forget model improvements. For 2019, I want to see Zero spend their money on improving customer and dealer support!!! After this experience, I don't see myself recommending a Zero to any of my friends. I was whole-heartedly recommending them up until this incident, but no longer.
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The dealer dropped off the bike this morning as promised. It had a 100% charge on it, but the anticipated range was only showing 55 miles. I decided to take it for a ride and see what I could see.
As I started out, the battery charge dropped a lot faster than it should, as did the remaining range, but a funny thing happened. Around 30 miles out, the battery display didn't change and the range started climbing back up. Eventually it showed more range than when I first started out.
I continued riding, figuring if it actually did run out of charge I would just call AMA MoTow and have them pick me up. I ended up putting 90 miles of combined city and highway riding and parked it in the garage with 5% charge left (and approximately 5 more miles of range left). Interestingly enough, the range from the Android app had dropped to 0 quite a bit sooner (but since it started up claiming I could go 684 miles on the current charge, I pretty much ignored it).
Next time I take it out for a spin I'll have to see what the numbers look like on both the dash and the Android app. Maybe running the battery all the way down like that will reset the computer and display more realistic numbers again? Wouldn't that be nice?
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Well hopefully the majority of your problems are over. Sounds like firmware to me... Been living with mine for a while now. Just watch your voltage to get the "real" picture. Range will be completely unreliable. Hopefully, the new firmware fixes this, though at least the first 8-10 rides could be due to the software recalibrating. Pulling the logs generally wipes the memory. So the bike is starting from zero again. (Pun intended🤣).
Cheers, hope its gets better for you from here on out!
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