ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: petewarm on July 30, 2020, 03:44:31 AM
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Any one help me on the way the charging is controlled on the SR/F?
This starts because I'm fed up with the charging cables taking up most of my topbox. I have a premium with a recently fitted rapid charge option, so I've lost the tank space.
For the UK we have:
1)Motorway services: Tethered cables (Fast mode 3) 3+3+6kW = 12kW, no cable required. Use this most of the time but have come to hate these motorway services, they are boring places.
2) Most non motorway charging stations are around 22kW, I need a cable and I have a short one from Khons (thanks to this forum) at 1.5m long. I get 10kW approx due to the fact that the cable is limited to 16A per phase by the PP resistor. (The 32A version they offered was substantially heavier....)
3) I have the Zero single phase charge cable fitted to a UK 13A plug for a household socket, running at 10A. I get ~2.5 kW using one of the chargers. Its a big cable! but needed when I go off to stay with friends.
I have come to understand that the type2 3 phase connections are the way froward in the UK/EU, but that they are totally over engineered for motorcycles, being designed for much higher currents than we need. Hence the bulk.
I have a plan to combine the latter two cables and fit then under the seat. But I need to understand how the PP and CP control lines work. My understanding so far:
PP) I understand from perusing the IEC docs that this has a resistor across to the earth (PE) terminal, value depending on the cable current capacity. From looking at the Khons cable, the resistor is only connected at the bike end, ie there is no comms back to the main supply. so it appears to tell the bike the maximum it current it can have. I think this resistor is what limits me to ~10kW above.
CP) I get that this is a PWM signal, and that the % of PWM tells the bike what charge current it can have. Again this appears to have no connection to the mains supply apart from an ability to turn off the mains under some circumstances.
What I cant understand is the relationship between these two systems, I am assuming that both systems are in effect concurrently on the SR/F?
If so, is there any reason why I could make a cable which just had :
1 phase, 13A No CP connection, just a PP resistor to tell the bike it can only charge at 13A?
Any comments much appreciated, Thanks, great forum
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Unfortunately you can't just use a resistor, the pilot signal uses PWM (pulse with modulation) to let the charger know how much power it's allowed to take from the circuit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
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PP : each cable has that resistor at both connectors. So both the EVSE (Charging station) and the Bike understand the maximum current the cable can tolerate. (680 Ohm for 16A 220 Ohm for 32A). As said both connectors each have a resistor but they are not connected by a wire inside the cable.
CP : The PWM signal has 2 functions. The duty cycle of the signal from the EVSE to the Bike tells the current that is available from the EVSE.
Without this PWM signal the Bike will NOT engage any charging ! It is programmed that way because that is what is required by the Standards.
The second function of the CP signal is that the bike is to tell the EVSE when it can activate the big relais to give power to the power pins. This is also a requirement from the standard. The "communication" is quite simple and it takes basically just a diode and one or 2 resistors (just one works for most stations but the standard requires 2 to differentiate between 2 states (standby and charge))
The Lowest current of 3 systems will prevail :
* If the charger on the bike has a current rating that is lower than the PP resistor and the CP PWM signal than it will obviously draw what that charger is capable of. (a 10 amp charger will not charge more than 10A even on a 32A station)
* if the PP resistor tells the EVSE and Bike that its is a 16A cable, the bike will (have to) limit the current to 16A and it will not draw more than that 16A. If the EVSE measures that more current is drawn than the cable can handle, it will stop the charging by cutting the power.
* If the CP PWM signal from the EVSE tells the bike that there is only 10A available, the Bike tells the chargers that 10A is the max. This can happen during "load balancing" when multiple EVSE's share a supply cable. So a 22kW station would normally advertise 32A but during high power demand situations with multiple chargers it could even be as low as 6A (personal experience!)
Because of the rather odd configuration of the chargers on the premium SR/F (and SR/S) with Rapid charger which has a 3kW (13A) charger on Phase 1, another 3kW (13A) charger on Phase 2 and a 6kW (26A) charger on phase 3 :
* your 16A 3 phase cable will yield 3kW + 3kW + 3.5kW of charging power (total 9.5 kW). With charging losses the display on the Bike (which shows DC power and current into the battery rather than AC power) will show around 9.1 or 9.2 kW.
Long story short, without a CP signal, the Bike will not start charging!
But there are (small) solutions for it. search for simple EVSE, or open EVSE or DIY EVSE.
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Thanks Remmie, Ive got the circuitry, was missing the overview, which you have kindly provided.
Ill post here when Ive worked out how to do a twin cable
Couldn't do all this without you guys in the forum. Thanks.
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Unfortunately you can't just use a resistor, the pilot signal uses PWM (power with modulation)
PWM=Pulse Width Modulation. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation)
-Don- Reno, NV
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Unfortunately you can't just use a resistor, the pilot signal uses PWM (power with modulation)
PWM=Pulse Width Modulation. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation)
-Don- Reno, NV
I stand corrected.
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Thanks everyone. I've now made a homemade cable that fits under the seats (with the "silly tray" removed). The PMW chip and 12V supply/relay came from evracing.cz, and its pretty simple to build the circuitry into the type 2 socket. I left mine permanently at 10A with a resistor.
Anyone want to buy a little used UK Zero charge lead at 50% list? :)
I've also got a 1.5m cable from Khons for 3 phase charging when a cable isn't provided. 10kW indicated charge as its the 16A (2.5mm2) lighter version. Sadly cant get that under the seat too, although I was working on a way to dump both type 2 sockets and permanently wire them in, but I've discarded that, at least until the warranty has run out a bit further...
Once again, thanks to you all.
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Nice job Pete,
But you can make the type 2 to type 2 cable a lot smaller by replacing the big white "handheld" covers by much smaller covers.
I've used simple PVC pipe covers (50mm) and later custom 3D printed covers to make the cable much smaller.
In the attached pictures an example of this much smaller cable next to a 3phase 32A cable which is wayyy too big to carry on a motorcycle.
Like yourself I also have the premium and rapid charger (12kW total) which off course is awesome regarding charging speed but it takes away all of the storage on the SR/F
Not only the type 2 to type 2 cable can be made much smaller. Also the granny charger can be made much smaller, as you can see in the pictures. The bottom half of the type 2 connector (with phase 2 and 3) can be cut off as it serves no purpose. I've managed to cram all the CP signal components in a 3D printed cover and now this connector is also very small.
For single phase type 2 to type 2 there is also a company "charge amps" which makes type 2 cables with relatively small connectors. Unfortunately it is only a single phase cable. But they have said (it is somewhere on Facebook) that they will make a 3 phase version of that cable in the near future.
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nice remmie! Do you have instructions somewhere on how to make these cables?
For the type2 to type2 charge cable, what cable spec did you use for example and all you need is a resistor on both ends? is it a straight connection from pin to pin or does it cross somewhere (sorry total noob here on charge cables). I know that these white, no brand, type2 pistols are easy to come by without cable. Not sure if that includes the resistors (I would think so).
And for the 220V charger, you still have a brick in between right? Or is this really just 1 phase connection on these 3 top pins? If so what controls how many amps it will draw?
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My own 2 cents on this topic. I made my own 2 m & 1250 g cable in late March this year, I found all others being too bulky, too long and thus too heavy. I must have been using it for over a hundred times by now and it still performs flawlessly even in the hot summer days. It uses 5 x 1.5mm2 and 2 x 0.5mm2 (but 1 x 0.5mm2 would have been enough). Largely enough copper for occasionally charging at 6 kW when on the go. A remark on the cable section, as it does get slightly warm during charging, I would use 2 mm2 if charging at 12 kW so if I ever get the Charge Tank I will also need a new type2 cable.
As shown in the electric schema (which I found afterward), do not forget to put those 680 Ohm resistors on both ends between PE and PP (I ignored that at first which resulted in a FEHLER 04000...).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fDDlEbWtffE49DN4c5PgPHrj76Ar1jqy-HQKVP8kJDt4wJv1ATemwH-fjDGTRW4VmnzERbSvuW_Nkj6JSEGN59IHGyxlpwRZLysZEtgAv-GGXucPv2b8ro8c8ew7_lQIvafx0oxPcAcOr4DKNKpTJKaA=w978-h486-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fssOvgCwO2f7PJO4n6VYxB7GrBL7qlrdBU6D2HOZcqEnGvcOcnNGGeMrN7EyFBBj3OTASE0JfqzB5RJy98UHWdxHjaArEjgXgsy-XBcPyWuFX7Varo-AgPAzvpJMiHMVP53-6q1AA3jVvqwDVxTkyvYw=s937-no?authuser=0)
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nice remmie! Do you have instructions somewhere on how to make these cables?
For the type2 to type2 charge cable, what cable spec did you use for example and all you need is a resistor on both ends? is it a straight connection from pin to pin or does it cross somewhere (sorry total noob here on charge cables). I know that these white, no brand, type2 pistols are easy to come by without cable. Not sure if that includes the resistors (I would think so).
And for the 220V charger, you still have a brick in between right? Or is this really just 1 phase connection on these 3 top pins? If so what controls how many amps it will draw?
not really a build instructions bit I can give some guidance. :)
The white generic type 2 connectors without cable do usually come with a resistor installed.
For the diy "granny charger" you would need a few components.
Obviously a Schuko cable rated to at least 13A as each charger on the SR/S and SR/F draws that amount of current.
The phase, neutral and earth of the Schuko can be directly connected to the L1, N and PE pins of the type 2 connector. The standard requires a relay so the 230V is only switched when the bike is ready but bike does not care if 230V is already present before the PWM signal so the relay can be omitted.
Now the bike will not charge without that PWM signal. You will need a 230V to 12V power supply unit (smelliest available) and a PWM signal generator. a good example is the "simple EVSE" by EVracing.
http://evracing.cz/simple-evse (http://evracing.cz/simple-evse)
Personally I've made my own version with an ATTiny45 and some auxiliary components to make it even smaller (you saw the cut-down type 2 connector, the PWM signal generating components are in the back cover of it)
In the attachment you will find a connection diagram for 3 different cables (all for the type 2 versions of the SR/F & SR/S)
1) granny charger, for charging from a household socket
2) for an SR/F or SR/S standard or premium without rapid charger (3 or 6 kW total)
3) for an SR/F or SR/S with rapid charger module (12 kW)
All the cables used are non-EV cables. Normal EV-cable are very thick and heavy, especially if it is a 32A version (6 sqmm per wire)
For example take the bottom cable in the attachment. It is a 7G1.5 sqmm cable. If you look carefully L3 is connected with 2 wires instead of 1 effectively creating a 3 sqmm cable.
This is done because of the configuration of the chargers on the SR/f and SR/S as you can see on the far right of the schematic.
1 charger of 3kW is connected to L1 (standard and premium versions)
the second charger of 3kW is connected to L2 (only premium version)
the optional rapid charger module of 6kW is connected to L3
Each 3kW charger draws around 13 amps at 230Volt. the 6kW rapid charger module draws 26 amps. A 1.5 sqmm wire can quite easily handle that 13A per wire.
So L1 : 1.5 sqmm, 3kW charger, 13A, no problem
L2 is the same as L1
L3 : 2x1.5 sqmm, 6kW charger, 26A, 13A per wire, no problem
Neutral : now there is where the three phase system comes in handy. You would expect a neutral current of 13+13+26 = 52 amps. However because each phase lags 120 degrees in time, only 13A will flow through the neutral wire, hence making a single 1.5 sqmm wire enough to carry the current. The neutral wire only carries the unbalanced current of the system.
Normally for an SR/F or SR/S you would need a 32A 3 phase cable to take full advantage of all the chargers and charge within the hour.
A 7G1.5 cable is much smaller than a 3 phase 32A EV cable, It is even smaller than a single phase 16A EV cable if you pick the right cable.
I used the Lapp Olflex Classic 810 7G1.5 cable. It is a high flexible chain cable
https://www.conrad.nl/p/lapp-0026153-geleiderkettingkabel-olflex-fd-classic-810-7-g-150-mm-grijs-per-meter-602078 (https://www.conrad.nl/p/lapp-0026153-geleiderkettingkabel-olflex-fd-classic-810-7-g-150-mm-grijs-per-meter-602078)
I also ditched the big pistol grip handheld covers and used a PVC endcap of 50 mm for the male connector and I believe 60mm for the female side. A pigtail cable gland supports the cable. See the photo in my previous post in this topic. This makes the cable much smaller, much lighter and still capable of fully using the 12kW charging capabilities of the SR/F
For "just" premium SR/F without the rapid charger module you can use the schematic as shown in the middle. Again no need to use a special EV cable but just a 5G1.5 cable (for example the Lapp olflex 810 classic 5G1.5)
By not connecting L3 and using that wire for the CP you have a very small and light cable instead of the otherwise required 3 phase 16A cable
Well, to concluded a very technical explanation. If you have questions, just ask :)
Hope it helps
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... Normally for an SR/F or SR/S you would need a 32A 3 phase cable to take full advantage of all the chargers and charge within the hour.
A 7G1.5 cable is much smaller than a 3 phase 32A EV cable, It is even smaller than a single phase 16A EV cable if you pick the right cable.
I used the Lapp Olflex Classic 810 7G1.5 cable. It is a high flexible chain cable ...
Fantastic information remmie, great forum indeed!
I am considering upgrading my Premium with a Rapid Charger and was again wondering about how to get the smallest and lightest possible cable. The one I use today is fine for 6kW but I know I'd need something better for 12kW. In the schema you wrote "Use this at your own risk" but I suppose you have made and are already using such a 7G1.5 cable to charge at 12kW?
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Yep, i have used that cable since I had my rapid charger installed last oktober.
Recently we did a 12 day road trip through Germany, Austria and Switzerland which totaled 3900 km. Almost exclusively charged with that cable. Some hotels did have a EV charger or household socket but that was 10% of the charges tops. I reckon something like twice a day, 45 minutes per charge. The cable barely gets warm.
At first I used it as just a cable as shown in the picture. But having to carry it every time in a backpack got a bit annoying (no storage when the rapid charger is installed)
Then I designed a 3D printed cover for the female connector so that it could be (semi)permanently installed on the bike male connector (behind the charge flap). Then I routed the cable to the silly tray area in the tail and coiled up the male end up there. That works great as now the cable is always installed but also easily accessible by removing the passenger seat. The charging flap can still be closed so it is a very stealthy install.
The silly tray obviously had to be removed to make enough room. I cut off the sides of the silly tray so the view from the side would be look stock.
Another modification that had to be done was to add a switch on the PP resistor of the female connector. Otherwise the bike senses the installed connector and goes into charging mode.
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What you did is truly stunning Remmie, and I am weighting my words. Many thanks again for sharing this information and those pictures.
Would you care to share the 3d models for the micro Type 2 cases which you have made, also what is the length that you have chosen for your 7G1.5 cable?
This modification is a perfect match for the Rapid Charger extension as it also partially solves the lost space in the tank area. If you don't mind, I would like to attempt an exact copy of what you did.
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Thanks Zelidar and Remmie for sharing this information! Great work.
For me I just needed a slightly shorter cable :D. The one I currently have is 4m which is a bit too much. Opening those up I discovered the pins are crimped and I don't have such a big crimping tool and can't find just the pins to crimp new ones anyway...
Just getting 2 pistol type 2 connectors seemed a bit pricey at most shops matching the price for a full cable. Except maybe for aliexpress and similar chinese options that you have to wait a month for to arrive. But evservice.eu also has them and what is more, they just confirmed to me that the pins are connected to the cables using screw connections. Also they come with instructions and resistors for both 16 and 32A configurations.
Link to their website and this product https://www.evservice.eu/type-2-female-stekker#/attributes=0--1-9026 . I just ordered a set so I'll be working out a cable for myself this weekend.
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Here are the 3D STL files for the type 2 cover. It is a housing and a lid.
the cable length is 3 meters if I recall. About 1 meter is used for routing the cable to the silly tray. So I have about 2 meters of cable available to reach the EVSE.
If in a pinch I can also quickly remove the rider seat with the M6 knurled knob (see picture in previous post) and get another 50 cm or so to reach the EVSE. Most of the time I can easily park within reach of the cable.
To route the cable like I did it is most convenient to remove the plastic tank. It is just 6 bolts (2 under the charge flap, 2 next to the ignition switch and on both sides the bottom screw of the silver "wings" Then the plastic tank should just lift up.
The cable is also routed behind (or rather in front of) the frame bar so getting the cable with connectors out would have to involve cutting the cable :o
Also leave enough slack on the female connector side so you can still temporarily remove the connector from the bike and attach a tethered cable from a fast charger or granny charger
The male end of a type 2 connector does not fit directly into a female connector of a fast charger with tethered cable. But if you cut off the front 12 mm it will fit. But then it won't have the locking tabs any more, so take care that the 2 connectors don't get seperated under load.
Also if you remove the front 12mm the locking tabs are no longer there (like i said) and i've come across some chargers in Germany where the EVSE checked for those locking tabs. It took me a while to figure that out. I did keep the piece that i cut off of the connector and used some small screws to be able screw the sawed off piece back on the connector. That worked OK for the EVSE that did the check for the locking tabs.
At another EVSE my shortened male connector (even with the attached locking tabs piece) did not accept the cable. In the end the flap on the connector OF THE EVSE had a sensor on it. Due to the smaller connector the flap did not open fully to 90 degrees. I stuck a piece of cloth under the flap and all was well. Took me a while to figure that one out too. It kept saying that I could only use 1 of the 2 connectors (type 2 and schuko linked). So it was a wrong error message.
I really don't mind if you build the exact same cable. Just happy to help.
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Mine is ready, 2m length should be plenty. I just turned the pig tails inside the pistol housings for now. Might shorten things if they are still to big to carry.
(https://i.ibb.co/0CfYMMP/6-B38630-B-0356-4587-AA76-AE303-E266-EED.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c6N2FFz)
Instructions were pretty clear but still good I had all this advice so at least I knew what I was doing. Also the cable selection and config is identical to what Remmie used.
(https://i.ibb.co/B4365tz/06-C3846-A-43-D5-4830-93-A0-9-F60-B2596566.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jVfwPT6)
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Wow, lots of good stuff:
small cover for type 2 plug means can be left plugged in to bike.
smart use of 2 1.5mm2 cores to allow rating at 32A.
From these two, I can now see how to perhaps get both 16A and type2 plug under seat. Haven't done it yet, but the attached is my proposal, based on remmies wiring schematics.
Next step is to get the cover/lid printed and then probably modified to allow both cables in and enough room for EVracing PWM module.
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Granny Charger - 1st version
Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum. We couldn't have achieved this with out you. Here is a photo of our first Granny Charger.
We had a copy of Remmies 3D plug printed (Thanks Remmie!), purchased the Simple EVSE kit from evracing.cz and a plug with the screw terminals. The 12V converter is a 23mm cube. To squeeze it into Remmies plug, we had to discard the existing base plate in the plug and make our own base plate from a discarded PSU ABS black plastic box. Now the 12V converter just fits.
We sleeved the 680 ohm resistor in a couple of layers of heatshrink to protect the leads. We replaced the switch with a small 12v relay so the signal to the charger occured as soon as the mains supply was switched on.
Please forgive the crap soldering/wiring, we usually do much better.
To hold Remmies plug cover onto the plug itself, we used a couple of 2mm screws.
We have sourced a much smaller 240V to 12Vdc converter from China so we think we can now still use the original base plate in the plug. There is plenty of room for the next size up relay and, we think we can fit a PCB into the cover to hold the new 12Vdc converter, the 680 ohm resistor and the relay as a single unit.
I can put together a pdf document with all construction photos and link to the parts used if anyone would like it.
Cheers
Phillip and Gary
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This i would like to read the pdf on yes. :)
Any idea on what the pricing would be?
Any possibility to buy it as a kit? (i can get my own cable and cut to length)
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Hi MrBlc,
OK, I'll put a pdf together for you and post it here. I'll include the links to the suppliers and the prices I paid. We had thought of creating a kit but haven't got round to it yet (only recently finished the cable!).
About the cable. We found the ordinary armored cable we used became very stiff at low temperatures, ie, early autumn mornings, so we changed our cable to the 'Artic Blue' brand. This is used for extension leads on building sites during the winter so must remain flexible.
Regards
Gary
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Hi Gary
Thank you.
I work for a cable manufacturer, so finding a flexible cable shouldn't be too hard. :)
I also exist in an arctic country, so we are used to look at cables for low temps.
Only issue i have is the same as Remmie experienced. Finding a 5x4/6mm+1/2x0,25 is difficult, but we can use alternatives.
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Hi Mr Blc,
Herewith my pdf instructions. When I get the new 12Vdc converters, I'll make up a better set of instructions, hopefully with a PCB for the components.
Regards
Gary
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Nice! ;D
Topic moved to Parts, Modes And Hacks.
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Nice work Gary! :)
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Hi MrBlc,
Thank you! Let me know if any parts of the instructions need clarifying. I'm ordering a set of ultra small 12Vdc converters today, so I may be amending the instructions quite soon.
Cheers
Gary
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Great work guys! Looking good. Glad to be of help 8)
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@remmie Dude.. This would not have happened without you. So.. Thank you too for all the input and wisdom.
That said, and this is just a personal comment that bears no meaning at all for anyone but me, whenever you mention Ölflex, my backside tingles.
The reason for that is simply that it has a rather conflicting history with a (now) competing brand called Rheyflex.
Rheyflex is the originator in all of this, and full disclosure, the brand that is produced by the very company i work for.
So.. You lot are of course free to choose whatever brand you want, but to me they would always be translated to a Rheyflex variant. :P
Actually, i'm contemplating getting my hands on a Pureax variant as it is even more flexible and sturdier, as well as being the proper color for HV EVSE connections..
@Gary Well, if you're asking, i would like even more details on the electronic components to make it easier to source. :)
Apart from that, this is a very good start and i'm already thinking on doing this project during winter as my driving season is nearing it's end nowadays..
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Hi MrBlc,
Apologies for the delay in responding. I have only just logged in again.
PARTS
The very small 12Vdc converters are on their way from China. Looks like they are on a container ship so it will be some weeks before I get them
The small relays I already have along with some veroboard to prototype the layout.
The EV Simple pcbs' should arrive this week from evracing.
I'll post again as soon as I have all the bits.
PLATE FOR PLUG
As I mentioned, I had to fabricate a new plate to hold the plug pins in place and allow enough room for the components. I just figured out how to use eMachineShop again (after a 5 year layoff!) and have created a new plate to 3D print. It should fit nicely inside Remmies plug cover.
Regards
Gary
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Hi All,
The tiny 12vDC converter pcbs have arrived from China, along with the charging pcbs from evracing. I'll let you know how the testing goes.
Cheers
Gary
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It seems this topic is a bit quiet, but thought i can try anyway:
Recently i bought an zero SR 2019 with chargetank. I got an quickcharge-cable (type 2 -> type 1) and a 16A homecharge-cable. The last one is quite large so i saw on this forum that you can build your own with the simple-EVSE board from evracing.
After building the cable according to the specs (https://github.com/kortas87/simple-evse/wiki/SimpleEvseJ1772guide) it seems to be working and the bike accepts charging at 3.6kW, however, when i stop charging (press the microswitch on the type1 connector) it trips the breaker in my house! I really have no idea why, it just sounds like pressing the microswitch disengages the relay, so it should actually not be possible to make a short circuit.
Does anyone have an idea how this can happen?
Regards, David
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it trips the breaker in my house! I really have no idea why, it just sounds like pressing the microswitch disengages the relay, so it should actually not be possible to make a short circuit.
By any chance did you mean it trips the GFI and not the breaker? If it is really tripping the breaker, it is really something major that is wrong. But tripping the GFI I can make some sense out of.
-Don- Reno, NV
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you are correct, it trips the gfci...
could it have something to do with the fact that there is only a relay in the live wire and not the neutral?
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you are correct, it trips the gfci...
could it have something to do with the fact that there is only a relay in the live wire and not the neutral?
As long as both sides are equally balanced, (one side not less resistance / impedance to ground than the other) it should not trip. But it seems to me GFI is often too sensitive. A difference of around 5 ma (0.005 amp) will cause the GFI to trip.
Something is unbalanced. Not a short other than leakage to ground from only one line.
A quick fix (that some may not consider safe) is to make sure there is no ground return possible.
For an example, some Zeros trip some GFIs even when they are new, when the stock 120 VAC cord is used on a three pin outlet. A quick fix to stop the GFI from tripping is use a three pin adapter and remove the ground lug from it. IOW, do not pass the ground to the bike from the outlet. That way, the bike cannot become unbalanced to earth round, as then there is no earth ground.
But with your issue, I would simply leave everything as is and just remember to reset the GFI when you're done charging. It is NOT a serious issue to find out why it trips. It is not unsafe just because your GFI trips when you press that button. It simply unbalancing something on one side more than the other, to ground, for a fraction of a second.
I would ignore it and just remember to reset that GFI when you are done charging.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Hi David,
We experienced the same issue on the day we read your post, having modified a granny charger! Up to now, we have built a very small relay into the charging handle. The relay is connected to the 12Vdc adapter and the normally open contacts connect the resistor between PP and PE. So, when you unplug the charging handle, you disconnect the resistor. If you use a manual switch for PP to PE resistor, unplug the handle first. That way, you won't trip the RCD/GFI.
Have a look at our previous posts for the circuit.
Cheers
Gary
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Thanks for the reply's everyone,
I did some troubleshooting, but could not find the exact reason why it trips the GFI. I did not want to keep it this way because my domoticasystem resets everytime the GFI trips, so in the end I opted to change my whole setup. As the simpleEVSE board, relay, wires etc. in the charging handle looked quite flimsy, I also didnt fully trust that setup to last long and endure a lot of abuse before something breaks or short circuits.
Luckily EVracing also send me a EVSE W16 board (not sure why, they labeled it 'spare parts'), which has the evsechip,12vdc adapter and 2x relay all on one small board soldered. I printed a small 3d casing which exactly holds that board and a push-button and put it in the powerline, looks very sturdy and waterproof (not planning on testing that though).
I complete emptied my bike and gave it a full charge with the cable without problems, even tried 20Amps for an hour (you can adjust that with the button) to see how warm everything would get and if it trips the breaker:) it did get warm but nothing serious, and no breaker tripped. also the powerline from schuko into the house held up nicely (2.5mm2)
So, i will keep testing and using this cable, let's see how it holds up longterm. For now it looks like i am able to give my bike a full charge in about 3 hours at home:)
For anyone interested to copy this:
-EVSE W16: http://evracing.cz/products
-3d model in attachment
-cable between plug and 3d-case: ÖLFLEX® FD CLASSIC 810 7 G 1.50 mm²
-cable between 3d-case and schuko: 5m BREMAXX AT-N07V3V3-F 3G1.5
Cheers! David
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This is a very interesting thread, I was going to comment on the use of a 680 ohm resister between PP and PE but luckily read it all again and realised that the SR/F only has 3kw 13A chargers per phase.
I’ve seen both the onboard 1.3kw charger and the 6kw charge tank for the DSR used together and wonder if they could be joined for 7.3kw 32A charging, obviously with at least a 4mm2 cable and 220 ohm resisters.
Anyone had any experience with the DSR charge tank?
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Any one help me on the way the charging is controlled on the SR/F?
This starts because I'm fed up with the charging cables taking up most of my topbox. I have a premium with a recently fitted rapid charge option, so I've lost the tank space.
For the UK we have:
2) Most non motorway charging stations are around 22kW, I need a cable and I have a short one from Khons (thanks to this forum) at 1.5m long. I get 10kW approx due to the fact that the cable is limited to 16A per phase by the PP resistor. (The 32A version they offered was substantially heavier....)
I know this is digging up an old post, but, what Khons charger specifically please? I've searched here with no luck so far.
Great work guys! Looking good. Glad to be of help 8)
Remmie, thank you for all this info! I don't suppose you have a guide or idea on how to make an adapter for a tethered UK type 2 home charger that I could attach to extend the cable and get the full charge from too, rather than an untethered cable which these guides seem to cater for?