ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: SwampNut on November 04, 2023, 11:24:58 PM
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My Zero came with a level 1 cord, so I did some shopping. I put this on my eBay watch list, and the vendor sent me an offer for $100 shipped a couple days later. Smokin' deal, works great, and has good info on the screen. It can be adjusted in cases where an outlet can't support full power.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266382374129
I have no affiliation with the seller or manufacturer.
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You can find a lot of good charging cords with a lot of whistles and bells on e bay, analzon etc.
I use the Vevor one, I like that it has a wattmeter and a total watthours put into the bike mode on it.
Get one cord, and you can make yourself 3 or 4 very small pigtails to plug into them so you can jack onto any plug there is to charge. No matter which form factor, you can plug and play.
Aaron
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I found it cheaper to buy a few adapters than to buy the parts to make my own, except for the L6-30 which I already had on hand. I bought a number for the Tesla years ago and now they will go with me for a Zero road trip where I will be faced with random outlets.
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I had issues with the adapters I tried to buy.
Apparently they did not understand the split phase thing of the Americas very well when they made them.
They put one power leg to both legs on the other side, the other power just terminated nowhere, and had a hard time understanding that Neutral / Ground in those instances is the return leg, and NOT just a fault leg when dealing with 115. It was really wierd and didn't work the way they hooked them so I had to return them.
aaron
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/266382374129
Pity, I'd have loved to see it, but everytime I see an ebay link, ebay page says "We've looked long and hard everywhere but we cannot find it" (sth like that).
I will never understand how people successfully buy on ebay. To me, it's the greatest CON site of all. Just to me, I know. ::)
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Listings expire. That's no con.
Here is the description for your search:
Godiag EV-B04 Level 2 EV Charger 32A 220V NEMA 14-50 21 ft Cable Portable
This is the vendor's own site: https://www.godiagshop.com/wholesale/godiag-ev-charger-32a.html
Note they also have an inexpensive Tesla to J adapter, so you can use the Tesla destination chargers.
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Even expired it should still let you see the listing unless it's like years old.
Sometimes the crap at the very end of the url can cause grief with some browsers. Security programs can cause that to happen as well at times.
There are so many cords out there now it's crazy. If one is only going to get a cord for their E bike, it'd be wise to look at the max amps the bike can take, in Energica's example, it's 15 amps max, 120 or 240 volt, so why pay extra for a 32A charger when a 15 or 20 would work for a decent amount of money less.
A decent L2 charger should also let you charge on a L1 with an adapter cord, it will just take twice as long since the voltage is only half. You can also make an adapter easily too. If you have issues, put the L2 leg on the charger to ground, that gives the 115 somewhere to go to complete the circuit. That's a big problem I am finding with a lot of these adapters is they don't understand the American split phase too well and put the power on both legs. 240 volt, yes, 115 NO! generally the 115 adapters wont work then.
Aaron
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I would like eBay to change their retention policy also, it's stupid. But it's not a con, they just think they are saving storage, and they are.
Matching your cord to your vehicle is always good, although, for a couple bucks more you can future proof your purchase. Buying a 16/24 would have saved me less than $20. My bike can max out a 30a 120v such as an RV outlet, and around 26a 240v.
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I eventually will get an electric truck. So ultimately got the 40 amp charging cord for that too. Was looking at the Rivian but not so impressed with it now. Range is going way down over what they originally posted, and there ARE some issues that they are pretty much ignoring. When a company ignores issues, yet posts a new scent of unicorn fart you can waft into your 'life cabin' every other week, it tells me they are not really concerned with real issues.
Tesla's truck looked impressive, is probably like a tank if it gets into an accident, which is GOOD !! but the design of it, hmm. I want to see them on the roads a bit first before jumping into that big of a purchase as well, but it'd be nice to be able to use my Tesla to fast charge my bike at the race track. it'd save me having to haul my power trailer around too :D
But, if it does not self load and unload the bed full of gravel, then it's game off 8) ;D
Aaron
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I eventually will get an electric truck. So ultimately got the 40 amp charging cord for that too. Was looking at the Rivian but not so impressed with it now. Range is going way down over what they originally posted, and there ARE some issues that they are pretty much ignoring. When a company ignores issues, yet posts a new scent of unicorn fart you can waft into your 'life cabin' every other week, it tells me they are not really concerned with real issues.
Tesla's truck looked impressive, is probably like a tank if it gets into an accident, which is GOOD !! but the design of it, hmm. I want to see them on the roads a bit first before jumping into that big of a purchase as well, but it'd be nice to be able to use my Tesla to fast charge my bike at the race track. it'd save me having to haul my power trailer around too :D
But, if it does not self load and unload the bed full of gravel, then it's game off 8) ;D
Aaron
Rivians seem to be quite popular around here. I see them parked all the time. And speaking of the Tesla truck one has already been in an accident on Skyline Boulevard (State Highway 35) in the Santa Cruz Mountains just north of Alice's Restaurant a couple of weeks ago. It completely demolished a small Japanese car, but it was also extensively damaged, too. There is a YouTube video showing the accident and the presenter goes on a long rant about the design of the Telsa Cybertruck.
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So was the presenter the truck owner or the wrecked car owner?
Those jap cars, Ive been in a few accidents concerning them and they do seem to crumple pretty well. Honda Civic, when it hit my trailer, just caved the entire side of it in, I was like, oh jesus dude you ok?? He was totally unharmed though so that's the main thing. vehicles can be replaced, your life and health can not. They are designed to self destruct around you, taking the energy of the impact away from you, so that's good.
I bet he finds that Stainless is going to be very expensive to replace as well. From what I am hearing, it is VERY hard to work with, and each truck is just about custom built. If that is so, that means that just buying another quarter panel etc, the fit may not be very well. It didn't burst in flames, so that's a plus. Everyone is always expecting e cars to turn into a litho-nuclear meltdown every time they get Pinto'd so when they don't, it s a good thing. But then again, I see cars, regular ones on fire all the time on the side of the road after accidents, yet nobody complains about that, odd isn't it?
when you take thousands of pounds and smash it into each other, the law of gross tonnage will win every time, you are NOT getting away undamaged. Thankfully nobody was hurt in that wreck.
Aaron
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There are so many cords out there now it's crazy.
Thanks Aaron. This sounds like you have much more insight than I have: Do you know of such one?
- I've been trying to find out which cabled plug I could take on long road trips (once I get my two new big batteries) that would enable me to use the "typical" mall / supercharger / whatever sockets to charge my EV bike?
- You know, I mean, public charging places.
- Basically, I am a little concerned how, and if, I may find sufficient places where I can "quickly" recharge my batteries while traveling?
- The batteries are custom-built for me (some nice Chinese guy on Aliexpress) and come each with a 10A charger only (although I have now asked him if for the 2nd battery order he can upgrade me to a >10A charger, and how many amps the batteries can be charged at all. Safely. Not reducing lifespan.
- So: The chargers come with standard wall 240V wall plugs (here in Europe)
- I've read of some "delta-q" and other, speedier, chargers, but have no clue what to look out for, as I don't even know what is common at public charging places.... (never had an EV until now), and bikes don't charge like cars, you know.
Has anyone of you gone on long road trips, and learned how to "quickly" recharge your batteries?
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You cannot use public charges for your chargers which take household power. We are talking about the J-1772 cord adapters which connect to household outlets and have a J-1772 output. These exist in the US while your equivalent connector, I think, is Mennekes or type 1 (working from old memory). You are indicating that your custom bike will have a household input, but you want to use a public charger, right? I don't believe it's possible. You definitely cannot use DC fast charging stations. In theory you could use a public if an adapter existed, but that seems very unlikely.
Bikes do charge like cars, mostly. SOME bikes and SOME cars have very low-end chargers that don't use public charging. This seems to be what you have. Mainstream bikes and cars have either public station AC inputs (Zero), or DC fast charging (Energica, Harley Lightning). Teslas and other higher end vehicles also have DCFC, and cheaper ones (Bolt, Smart) have AC charging.
10a/240v is 2400 watts, very low, what size are your batteries? My zero has 17.3k and charges at 6.6k.
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Very interesting, thank you.
You are indicating that your custom bike will have a household input, but you want to use a public charger, right? I don't believe it's possible. You definitely cannot use DC fast charging stations. In theory you could use a public if an adapter existed, but that seems very unlikely.
Yes, such adapter I was after. "that seems unlikely", pity!
I should go looking around to find some public charging stations and have a look. Thing is, in this country (currently!) I have never seen a public charging place anywhere, lol!
Hence why I am slightly concerned for the planned long road trips, and have ordered another battery from the same Chinese guy.
I was THINKING if old-style gas stations (petrol stations here) let an ebike owner plug their household plug into one of their wall sockets? Or which other "shops" might let us do that? Basically, I fear, everytime I need to recharge, I have to fill myself up with another 5 course menu to be allowed to recharge at a restaurant?
I wonder what other ebikers' experience is there?
As I don't use fb and any such thing, I have no contact to ebike rider groups, if such exist. (not here anyway, I bet)
Bikes do charge like cars, mostly. Mainstream bikes and cars have either public station AC inputs (Zero)
What would "public station AC inputs (Zero)" look like? Do you have a photo of plug / socket?
My zero has 17.3k and charges at 6.6k.
Woah, that I consider very fast! 6.6kW here no household socket can output, afaik (16A *230V is standard max). Thus your Zero can charge at almost twice that max.
Do you have a suitable charging socket at home? And publicly available also?
To answer your question: If the ship from China delivers(!?), I hope to soon have up to ~150Ah * 76.8V nominal = 11.5kW.
"My zero has 17.3k" - Unfathomable for me. ;D How many miles can you go?? Or, rather (as I count that way): What wattage do you use per km, on average trips?
I noticed, the riding style has more influence than anything else! Except to demonstrate to others, I avoid "fast starts / acceleration" now. Hills here, I cannot avoid, unfortunately. They cost wattage too. When I just keep on flat roads "in the flow" (same, low, speed), the bike uses "almost nothing" (under 20W/km).
The Ukrainians, in their RideBikeShop videos, on their "Long Range Performance", went in a video for an hour at top speed on a highway (I watched the whole video, yeah). ;D
I like their videos a lot (though don't understand a word). I was going to buy from them, that bike. But then they stopped responding. I read in the news, "all" men were drafted. Terrible situation there!! :( :-[
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Get a charger for your bike and make adapters to fit whatever plug you may encounter, or buy the adapters.
If you go somewhere where it's a J plug, then you are good to go, if all they have is a standard outlet, then you have the portable charger to plug into that outlet, and the pigtails in case it's a different plug, to change whatever the common plug looks like, into a J plug for your bike.
I got one with a standard 115 vac because it was smaller, then made pigtails to plug into that that were the 240 volt most common ones we have in the US. 3 prong, 4 prong, so no matter where I go, if there is any power available, I can get it. I also got some alligator clips so if I have to clip onto a bus or a wire somewhere, I can get power.
DO realize though that 115 charging is slow, you will spend several hours getting a little charge. it literally is best if left overnight for a full night to charge on 115. 230 - 240 can be faster up to the rating of the plug you are at. If it's only got a 30 amp breaker on it, then you are stuck at 7.2 kw, so even if your bike can take 12k, it will only feed it 7.2
Aaron
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I got a charger with my Energica that lists the input range of 120 to 240 VAC. It came with a NEMA 6-20 plus instead of a standard 5-15 like all the outlets in my garage. So I have to use an adapter (5-15P to 6-20R) to use a regular outlet but I found a NEMA 14-50P to 6-20R ($18 on Amazon) that lets me use a 240 VAC outlet and it works just fine. I unplugged my Juice Box EVSE and used the 14-50 outlet that is dedicated to that "charger" with the Adapter and stock portable EVSE cord from Energica. It delivered 14 amps, ~3.3 KW, and didn't heat up or fault.
So the stock EVSE can do level 1 or level 2 with three possible plug types. I'm going to get a TT-30 adapter from the same company. The with a Tesla Tap I'll be able to use all the charging locations the populate on Plugshare (Except of course CHAdeMO and Tesla DC without Magic Dock)
I was apprehensive that the adapter would work after all of Specters warnings, but maybe the 6-20 plug, because it is a standard that supports 240 VAC natively makes the difference?
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If you go somewhere where it's a J plug, then you are good to go
He said his chargers take a standard EU household 240v outlet. Are you aware of a way to adapt to a J plug? Not to mention, he will never run into a J-1772 adapter in Europe; that's a stupid SAE standard.
Here is a reference:
Is type 2 the same as J1772?
No, Type 2 refers to the Mennekes connector used as the charging standard in Europe. It’s a three-phase plug that can charge up to 43 kW. J1772 is a Type 1 connector used in North American EVs. It’s a single-phase plug with up to 19.2 kW of power.
PLEASE be careful when advising people because standards vary greatly.
Very interesting, thank you.
You are indicating that your custom bike will have a household input, but you want to use a public charger, right? I don't believe it's possible. You definitely cannot use DC fast charging stations. In theory you could use a public if an adapter existed, but that seems very unlikely.
Yes, such adapter I was after. "that seems unlikely", pity!
I should go looking around to find some public charging stations and have a look. Thing is, in this country (currently!) I have never seen a public charging place anywhere, lol!
Hence why I am slightly concerned for the planned long road trips, and have ordered another battery from the same Chinese guy.
I was THINKING if old-style gas stations (petrol stations here) let an ebike owner plug their household plug into one of their wall sockets? Or which other "shops" might let us do that? Basically, I fear, everytime I need to recharge, I have to fill myself up with another 5 course menu to be allowed to recharge at a restaurant?
I wonder what other ebikers' experience is there?
As I don't use fb and any such thing, I have no contact to ebike rider groups, if such exist. (not here anyway, I bet)
Bikes do charge like cars, mostly. Mainstream bikes and cars have either public station AC inputs (Zero)
What would "public station AC inputs (Zero)" look like? Do you have a photo of plug / socket?
My zero has 17.3k and charges at 6.6k.
Woah, that I consider very fast! 6.6kW here no household socket can output, afaik (16A *230V is standard max). Thus your Zero can charge at almost twice that max.
Do you have a suitable charging socket at home? And publicly available also?
To answer your question: If the ship from China delivers(!?), I hope to soon have up to ~150Ah * 76.8V nominal = 11.5kW.
"My zero has 17.3k" - Unfathomable for me. ;D How many miles can you go?? Or, rather (as I count that way): What wattage do you use per km, on average trips?
I noticed, the riding style has more influence than anything else! Except to demonstrate to others, I avoid "fast starts / acceleration" now. Hills here, I cannot avoid, unfortunately. They cost wattage too. When I just keep on flat roads "in the flow" (same, low, speed), the bike uses "almost nothing" (under 20W/km).
The Ukrainians, in their RideBikeShop videos, on their "Long Range Performance", went in a video for an hour at top speed on a highway (I watched the whole video, yeah). ;D
I like their videos a lot (though don't understand a word). I was going to buy from them, that bike. But then they stopped responding. I read in the news, "all" men were drafted. Terrible situation there!! :( :-[
Those are a lot of logical questions, I'll try to hit them. First, keep in mind that public charge connectors are intelligent, and household/industrial plugs are not. What this means is that your bike/car has to negotiate for power with the station. The cord is not "live" unless connected and a smart handshake is made. With a household plug you just get power, whatever it can do, no intelligence. This is why the charge cords have a box with a display, to do the intelligent handshake. These provide an interface from the dumb household connector to the smart input.
You said your bike has a household input. It's dumb. It cannot negotiate with a public charger. You are at the mercy of finding a plug at places you might stop. I'm not sure what is the background on your custom bike, but this is really not the way to go for travel. Your bike is a local city bike only, unless you want to wait hours and fight to find a random plug. Your 2400 watt charger will take almost five hours to take your battery from say 5% to around 98%, and more to get to 100%.
My bike can do close to 200 city miles, 110-120 combined driving, less than 100 straight highway at 75, and if I ride it hard, even less. Hard acceleration and deceleration, if you have regenerative braking, is actually not a range killer. Holding high speeds is.
American homes have 120v 15a or 120v 20a sockets around the house. Many/most also have a few 240v 50a sockets for clothes dryers, water heaters, and stoves. In my case I installed a 240v 30a outlet in the garage for my welder and Tesla charging. At home I mostly charge the bike on a 120v 20a outlet overnight. I can also charge it on the 30a to go faster. Around my region, RV parks are plentiful, and they have both 120v 30a and 240v 50a outlets; many will let you park and charge for a few dollars. There are also Tesla destination chargers that I can use. I cannot use Tesla Superchargers with the bike, only with the Tesla.
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then made pigtails to plug into that that were
Do you have a photo of that? :D
It may give others an idea (me too)
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Do you mean the Mennekes connector? I'd recommend you google it. But it won't help you, no matter if you build an adapter, it will NOT work without the intelligent negotiation. I've tested the J adapters, and there is NO POWER without a vehicle to negotiate power. You'd need some advanced electronics skills to make a device.
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The problem is. overseas both power legs are HOT legs, then there is ground, or earth. ie PE (potential earth)
In the USA, there are 2 hot legs BUT, there is also a neutral, AND also a PE, or ground or earth. so hot to hot will give you 240, but hot to neutral gives you 115. We have a split phase system. Either hot to PE will give you 115 as well, since PE and Earth, ideally are the same thing.
Ok, the hard core are going to argue with that, as technically it is not, but on an earth grounded system that is working properly, it's at ground potential.
On a 240 system, you never want one of those legs to touch ground, that is a bad thing.
on a 115 system, the other leg of it IS GROUND, So instead of hot to hot you are going either Hot 1 to ground/neutral or Hot 2 to ground/neutral to get that 115 instead of the full 240
often times when you get a 240 to 115 adapter, the see the 115 as Hot-Hot-Ground it has two hot legs, and a ground. what they don't realize is that for 115 it's really Hot-Neutral/ground-ground. so, not knowing what to do with the other hot leg on the 240 side of the conversion, they just tie the one hot of the 115 to BOTH the hot legs of the 240.. (because you don't want to put hot to ground right???) so you end up with the 115 hot side, going to both power ends of your 240 charger, it's putting the same potential at both ends, so there's nowhere for the power to flow!
You either have to make one yourself, using the neutral and tying it to the other hot leg on your charger, or you can play with the charger and a jumper but id not recommend the latter.
In your case if it came with a 115 volt ability already there, they have it wired already to take care of that.
Aaron
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Type 1 is 115 volt AC in the US
Type 2 is 240 volt AC in the US as the source of power
The power comes out of a plug, and they feed a charger, which then is hooked to a J-Plug which is what plugs into your vehicle.
Type 3-4 would be your fast chargers. ie the CCS plug. THey use CCS1 in the US, CCS2 elsewhere and ChaDemo and some other variants, including tesla's variant.
In order to charge with ANY type of power you NEED a charger, you can NOT just plug it into a wall and have it charge. The charger needs to negotiate with the vehicle to turn on the power and regulate how much is going into the vehicle etc.
The plug now, is where you plug the charger into a source of power. Again, you NEED a charger. and the pigtail I was talking about is to convert from the different sizes of plugs.
If your charger has a nema 14-50 plug on it, it won't fit in a 6-20 plug. You can make a pigtail that WILL have it fit, it basically has a male 6-20 plug, and a female 14-50 plug, (for your charger that was build with the Male 14-50) to plug into.
As for the interface for the communications, it's really just a simple circuit board you can buy for a few dollars, but there's a bit more than just the board to make a safe charger.
Here is an active e bay link that shows some pigtails to convert the plugs to fit what you need
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254924998981
now of course being overseas you'd want to use an e bay link that is from someone with you but this will give you some pictures to see
aaron
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The cord is not "live" unless connected and a smart handshake is made.
Spot on. Then I won't be able to charge at public chargers: My batteries (my bike has NO household or any other input, by the way, I lay cables from the batteries to where I need the power, and to charge the batteries, I will be able to take them off the bike to take them into a building for charging, or, to charge them while left on the bike, if I have a long enough cable / park up close to a socket), so, my batteries ...
don't come with any "handshake" protocol stuff, they are just Lifepo4 with Ant BMS. ::)
So, sounds like I will try to charge at RV parks (great idea!! Thanks) and similar public places. I don't mind paying for recharging, after all the establishment has to pay for energy also. (Power doesn't cost much here, like in US, ~25c/kWh, subject to your state (California)). That comes out at cheap traveling, much cheaper than combustion engine for sure (I had a Suzuki V-Strom which is one of the cheapest to run, but my ebike now is a fraction of that).
Your 2400 watt charger will take almost five hours
Yes, that what I calculated too.
Only that I will use power between SOC 92-ish % to 15-ish% only, because I studied Lifepo4 lifecycle in depth, and this makes them live longest, as per current knowledge base. You guys, I think, all use Li-on derivatives, they have different requirements, I get it. (I have always been an outlier / nerd ;D ;D)
My bike can do close to 200 city miles, 110-120 combined driving, less than 100 straight highway at 75, and if I ride it hard, even less. Hard acceleration and deceleration, if you have regenerative braking, is actually not a range killer. Holding high speeds is.
Cool, and spot on. 200 city miles is amazing for such powerful bike (compared to mine, I mean).
IF I get both batteries ordered, I calculated, with ultra-soft / smooth riding, I will easily go > 300km, which is about 200 miles also.
Here's some fun fact that I learned today when researching CAR ev watts/km comparisons:
The Porsche Tycan uses more power in city than on highway. While all other cars seem to use more on highway than in city: https://insideevs.com/reviews/344001/compare-evs/
No idea, why!?! Just interesting.
I was surprised how FEW watts the Model S uses, as compared to other cars. (same table)
Again, no idea, why, just interesting.
No, I don't know of a similar table that compares BIKE evs, sorry. ;D
So, I read you have a Tesla CAR also. Woah, good man! :D You will know more detail there then too.
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Okay, I looked up images for all the plugs and adapters and sockets you guys have mentioned. I haven't seen one of them here, no, sorry. I did watch a video of a guy who showed "all" (he said) types of plugs /sockets available at "super(?) chargers" in the UK. None of the 3 (no more) I would be able to use for my baby bike, no. Not sure if a Harley or Energica could use those.
The IDEAL, would be we charge DC to DC. I wanted that for my tiny home (fully offgrid, charging straight from solar), but on a solar forum everyone (rightfully) advised against that: voltage and amps just fluctuate way too much to be safe (good) for battery health.
Like Aaron already pointed out: chargers must match the battery. It would be impossible for me to build the "smart" electronics he mentioned, to replicate or emulate the stock AC to DC charger. I won't even try.
So, I will keep charging the bike (stupidly) with the AC to DC stock charger, despite that my AC first comes from DC also! Each step has conversion losses....
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The cord is not "live" unless connected and a smart handshake is made.
Spot on. Then I won't be able to charge at public chargers: My batteries (my bike has NO household or any other input, by the way, I lay cables from the batteries to where I need the power, and to charge the batteries, I will be able to take them off the bike to take them into a building for charging, or, to charge them while left on the bike, if I have a long enough cable / park up close to a socket), so, my batteries ...
don't come with any "handshake" protocol stuff, they are just Lifepo4 with Ant BMS. ::)
So, sounds like I will try to charge at RV parks (great idea!! Thanks) and similar public places. I don't mind paying for recharging, after all the establishment has to pay for energy also. (Power doesn't cost much here, like in US, ~25c/kWh, subject to your state (California)). That comes out at cheap traveling, much cheaper than combustion engine for sure (I had a Suzuki V-Strom which is one of the cheapest to run, but my ebike now is a fraction of that).
Your 2400 watt charger will take almost five hours
Yes, that what I calculated too.
Only that I will use power between SOC 92-ish % to 15-ish% only, because I studied Lifepo4 lifecycle in depth, and this makes them live longest, as per current knowledge base. You guys, I think, all use Li-on derivatives, they have different requirements, I get it. (I have always been an outlier / nerd ;D ;D)
My bike can do close to 200 city miles, 110-120 combined driving, less than 100 straight highway at 75, and if I ride it hard, even less. Hard acceleration and deceleration, if you have regenerative braking, is actually not a range killer. Holding high speeds is.
Cool, and spot on. 200 city miles is amazing for such powerful bike (compared to mine, I mean).
IF I get both batteries ordered, I calculated, with ultra-soft / smooth riding, I will easily go > 300km, which is about 200 miles also.
Here's some fun fact that I learned today when researching CAR ev watts/km comparisons:
The Porsche Tycan uses more power in city than on highway. While all other cars seem to use more on highway than in city: https://insideevs.com/reviews/344001/compare-evs/
No idea, why!?! Just interesting.
I was surprised how FEW watts the Model S uses, as compared to other cars. (same table)
Again, no idea, why, just interesting.
No, I don't know of a similar table that compares BIKE evs, sorry. ;D
So, I read you have a Tesla CAR also. Woah, good man! :D You will know more detail there then too.
You're not listening to either the person asking, or me. This is about converting a PUBLIC CHARGER, with a Mennekes, to a bike with a household input. This doesn't exist, that I can find, is not supported for sure, and would take some good engineering skills to make (not impossible).
Converting from household/industrial to J-1772 or Mennekes is trivial, as you note.
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The IDEAL, would be we charge DC to DC. I wanted that for my tiny home (fully offgrid, charging straight from solar), but on a solar forum everyone (rightfully) advised against that: voltage and amps just fluctuate way too much to be safe (good) for battery health.
That's so bizarre, in the US all solar as far as I have seen is DC to DC charging. And I've worked on some BIG solar stuff...
Definitely no AC in here, in fact the entire infrastructure runs on 48v, pretty normal here.
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You can absolutely charge your bike from solar! I do it all the time at home here.
Yes the voltages can fluctuate and amps IF it's cloudy / windy out. But if it's nice and sunny the power is pretty rock steady save for the bell curve that's the natural dawn to dusk curve.
If you wanted to hook the panels directly to the battery, probably not recommended unless you really know what you are doing, panels have current limiting due to the nature of them, and the volts of the panel are going to match whatever the battery is at. (As long as OCV is higher than the battery's) The only problem area will be once you are charged up, the battery voltage will rise very rapidly and you'll need to disconnect before you trip something in the BMS or cause a bad problem.
Most people have the panels feeding into a battery bank just to keep it super smooth and buffer it, especially on those windy cloudy days, and an inverter to run a standard charger to push the DC you want.
Two ways to get the DC you need AND have it regulated.
A. Have an AC input DC charger, yes it can be a fast charger
or have a DC input DC charger, which is a fast charger. Typically these run on 300 to 400 ish volts input. I am in the process of building a small 10 KW fast charger that runs on 48 volts though. Yes its going to need about 250 amps which is really pushing a single string battery bank unless you start going with the industrial sized batteries. the group 8D and crap, I can't remember is it 600M the phone switch / train batteries?
One idea to cut out the charging circuit on a high voltage reached is run it thru an SSR with the high V as the pilot signal as a cutout. Once the voltage is reached it turns OFF the SSR until the voltage returns back to the set level. A simple circuit and you can add a lockout to that as well.
Aaron
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Ok, maybe there's a language barrier here. You can do DC-DC charging WITH A CHARGE CONTROLLER. That's perfectly safe. You should never do direct panel to battery.
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Myfirst electric.
Lets try a reboot here: I think comms are getting crossed and other inputs are getting confusing.
what is the voltage your battery is running at? Give me that and I can give you ideas how to charge it, with either AC or DC and possibly even ready made chargers if the voltage is within their specs.
Aaron
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He said 76.8V nominal and 11.5kW. Probably 72v but rated in Chinesium watts.
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You can buy a charge controller COTS that will handle that voltage, and it is fully programmable.
outback.com midnightsolar.com
goto
altenergystore.com and they can give you guidance, they ship overseas too, also you can call and talk to a person who can then understand exactly what you need and offer you advice, and products that might work.
Most newer charge controllers can safely handle up to 96 volt battery with some taking inputs as high as 200 to 300 vdc, so right off the panels, into the charge controller, into your battery.
Always put a fuse in the circuit though, that way if something accidentally drops, or touches, you don't have full battery source current backfeeding a growing arc.
Aaron
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Here is what I got going on.
Photo 1: My bike sitting on my driveway.
Notice the solar panels laying on the concrete in the background.
Photo 2: It feeds into my truck, it's all portable, i can literally pick up and throw those panels out anywhere
in the truck it goes into front left charge controller, background 48 volt lith battery bank, front right inverter and top left white plug which is the J plug I plug into my bike to charge it.
Edit: Cant really see it, I forgot but there's a 175 Amp circuit breaker in there too for the DC
Aaron
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I think you guys know way too much for me to understand (or swampnut at least misunderstood me when I spoke of AC-DC).
Aaron: "You can absolutely charge your bike from solar! I do it all the time at home here." ?
"what is the voltage your battery is running at?"
That is the problem: So, my tiny house system is 25.6V nominal Lifepo4 (which means actual is always higher). Yet obviously nowhere nearly enough to charge the bike batteries directly (without boost converter, but through controller) from the house batteries (I would never charge any batteries straight from solar without charge controller, swampnut, no).
The bike batteries (also Lifepo4 but 24S) come with a 87.6V AC-DC charger (foolishly: The Chinese haven't studied Lifepo4 lifecycle, else they'd limit their chargers to 85.2V max!).
To answer your question: IDEALLY, I'd like to:
- use another switch that allows me to generally keep sending the power from the 8 roof panels (each 20.98VMP 7.15IMP, but connected 4S2P, ie 84VMP 14.3IMP) to my 25.6V charge controller house system (in addition to that from the rear wall panels),
- but when full sun and when I need to charge the bike batteries, I can turn the switch,
- to send said roof panel power to SEPARATE EXTRA charge controller that I BUY and which would be 84V charge controller, and is programmable like my existing two charge controllers.
- This way, I could program the NEW EXTRA 84V charge controller to safely charge the bike batteries straight from solar (DC to DC) when full sun.
- My understanding (currently) is, that I would need a 84V rated MPPT charge controller that I can program to charge the bike batteries CC - CV (first constant current as per their rated amps, and then constant voltage at 84V with diminishing current, the fuller the batteries get).
Though, I may still have some error in my thinking, maybe that's why I haven't connected the new roof panels yet (or, because it's always raining...). ;D The above is just the current PLAN.
HOW WOULD YOU DO IT? ""You can absolutely charge your bike from solar!" ?
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Woah, those are some decent charger cables, yes! Such I don't have (nor have seen here).
Your bike there is that the 17.6kW Zero (I thought I understood you mentioned) ?
That looks like a serious bike also, like your plugs.
Yes, way more professional than my setup (even the planned one).
The DC - DC solar charging you do would interest me. Then again, I reckon your system is so much bigger that I cannot replicate your way anyway.
Just maybe it gives me an idea, how I could do it for my "baby" system.
;D
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I think, going forward, I will actually call my ev bike my "baby". Referencing its weakness (compared to you guys' bikes).
My "baby bike", I like that phrase ;D
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For tomorrow we have ONE day sunshine forecast (but frickin cold), I don't think I will be able to install my Fardriver 72360 controller....
The wiring (see my earlier post with the complicated mess under the bike's decking) looks so elusive, it will take me a good while to get my head around, which wire does what.... ::)
A few wires I identified the other day, just before the rain returned.
I need to be careful: Don't want to blow up my costly controller.
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Some charge controllers you can program for what you want them to do, and they'll automatically adjust to the battery voltage. For example the one I am using I can plop the thing onto my 24 volt system for the tilapia pond or the 48 volt system for the house / bike etc etc etc. For your, turn a switch and it charges the other battery, entirely possible just make sure you disconnect BOTH sources of power from the charge controller, that totally deadens it, so it forgets it's running voltage, and mppt voltage and most important you are not hooking a cap charged to 48 volts to a 24 volt battery and popping your terminals. When you hook battery back up it'll see the new voltage and begin tracking off that.
I believe midnight solar has one that will go up to 96 volts.
As for boost or buck converters, go check out powerstream.com they have all kinds of converters and you might find something that might work for you. Worse case your bike batteries, charge them in pairs, ie charge them parallel at 48 volt, but run them in series at 96 volt. You can probably get away with an SSR to do the switching if you need but Id prefer a good solid manual switch to KNOW it's good and not have to worry about an electric failure griefing you.
Aaron
EDIT: That's another thing that's nice about charge controllers, like the outback ones for example. You can push them at 150 - 200 - 250 volts depending on which one you get!! and from there it'll walk down to whatever your battery bank is. If you hook it to a 96 volt battery you will charge to that if you hook it to yoru battery but only want it to charge to 81 then you program it to float at that voltage, so when it hits that, it essentially stops charging.
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Thanks, I am not 100% sure I understood you right Aaron?
So, I checked midnitesolar, all their controllers can handle only up to 72V battery systems: https://www.midnitesolar.com/products.php?menuItem=products&productCat_ID=21&productCatName=Charge%20Controllers%20-%20Classics
(Not to confuse 96AMPS charge capacity with 96V battery system) :D
While my house system is 25.6V nominal, my Lifepo4 bike batteries will be the >80V that I had detailed.
My (current) understanding is, that a new, third, solar charge controller would need to ** Nominal System Voltage ** of >80V matching the bike battery system.
Right?
Not to be confused with a charge controller's Rated charge current, Rated discharge current, and Max. solar input voltage. All of these are different, additional values to check. However, all of these will be FINE then: Already charge controllers for ** Nominal System Voltage ** 24V can easily do 40A and 134V (my Solarepic too), both of which values are higher than what the 8 new roof panels will provide: 84VMP 14.3IMP
Again, my only trouble is (if my understanding is right?) that I cannot find a solar charge controller with Nominal System Voltage
>80V to match the bike battery system. But that I would need one, to do direct DC Solar to DC bike battery charging (with controller, of course). Like you do you said, right?
DDG cannot find ANY such highly rated solar charge controller. And midnitesolar's sales page (of 72V max systems) suggests that such one would cost > $1000 anyway.
I assume, all of these reasons were what made the guys on the solar forum agree that direct solar DC to bike DC charging is sort of impossible. ?
But you wrote: "You can absolutely charge your bike from solar! I do it all the time at home here." - How? Got a photo of setup? Was that the one with the panels on the concrete?
Sth I seem to be misunderstanding still?
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One other thing, constant amps is NOT a requirement in this method, Lith tech is very unforgiving about volt .vs. amps. NiCd would shit on you quickly if you started playing with volts amps or swinging stuff. NiMh was not a heck of a lot better. Lead Acid will tolerate it and Lith will tolerate it very well. This is why they are in demand on solar farms, when the clouds roll by and the voltage and current is swinging all over the place, the battery don't give a shit, as long as you don't over current it, it'll suck in whatever you put at it.
another nice thing about Lith technology is a charge cycle is a FULL charge cycle, not just the attempt. so if you do have less than optimal charging days it's not swinging your battery all over the place trashing it's cycle life left.
The Flexmax 80 controller will let you program it up to 80 volts. If you look around I am sure there are others which will let you go even higher. I know i seen them before. Some of the electric riding mowers, Ryobi comes to mind, I think the battery pack voltage is 80 volts on some of them, so worse case, grab a charger from one of those z turn mowers and use it to charge your bank.
Go look around on the internet, do searches on Charge Controllers, 80 Volt battery charger, stuff like that and see what pops up.
it's pretty useless for me to do it for you, since I am in the states and you are???? my results won't be very useful for you, you'll need to find someone who services where you live.
Aaron
PS. you really NEED to understand how this all works, to be good with it and not cause a problem down the road. May I recommend a website called
batteryuniversity.com it's free and is very in depth on different battery types, their quirks how to charge etc, i t might give you a decent background to help you better understand some of the stuff we are taliking about here.
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Lifepo4 charging is nothing new to me, don't know why you elaborate on that, like I wrote earlier, I studied Lifepo4 in more depth than anyone I know personally. So, don't worry about me not understanding my batteries. ;D
If everyone understood their batteries like I do, none would burn, none would explode, none would offgas, none would leak, none would be wrecked in under a mediocre 1000 charge cycles.
I hear, Zero bike batteries don't do more than that. ??
All my batteries in the past have had >5000 lifecycles before they even reached 80% SOC.
"Go look around on the internet, do searches on Charge Controllers,"
Like I wrote: "DDG cannot find ANY such highly rated solar charge controller. "
DDG means Duckduckgo. I detest google.
"If you look around I am sure there are others which will let you go even higher."
Nope.
"I know i seen them before"
Cool. Can you remember where? ;)
Either way, as modest as always indicated, I am not sure it needs a solar charge controller rated for ~86V system.
Aaron: "You can absolutely charge your bike from solar! I do it all the time at home here." ??
What is the voltage YOUR battery is running at that you charge "all the time" straight from solar? And with which CC?
I may have missed that.
"May I recommend a website called batteryuniversity.com" ?
OMG, please not, no.
I've been amazed for years, how many people fall for that pseudo wisdom I've found on there.
Is that just because it calls itself "university", I wonder?
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Well since you seem to have all your ducks in a row then this project should be eazy peazy for you.
The classic 250 will handle the volts you are looking at, but you knew that already.
You flip flop back and forth from saying I will never know this stuff to, I already know everything, too bad everyone is not as smart as I am.
I am not sure how much more I can help you, you seem to have all the answers you need already.
Aaron