ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Hey guys Its a proven fact that vision is improved at night with whiter light. You can take my word for it since I've changed my bikes driving at night is a breeze compared to what it was with the lousy factory bulbs.

Also there is no blue in this bulb, the blue tint is only there for a high-tech look so when the light is off it gives the lamp a blue tint.  I have included an image below to help you visualize what I'm saying.

Enjoy - Mike

The Sylvania Xenon Halogen bulb "Out-Performs" Most LED Lamps Available.

Hello Guys - Aside from the fact the Xenon gas burns at a much higher temperature for up to 50% more light combined with their 4000 Kelvin temperature to make them almost as white as an LED's, now most car manufacturers are installing them as standard equipment. Another advantage of the Xenon lamp is it is rated at 10,000 hours compared to the standard 2.000 hours of a standard halogen bulb.

I would like to follow up my article on the advantages of upgrading your stock headlamp with a replacement halogen type bulb rather than replace the entire lamp as some riders do on other bikes and the advantages of using the stock light fixture.

Stock Zero Fixturee - Actually the Sylvania Xenon Halogen $23.00 bulb in your Zero’s stock fixture will have more distance and more light than most other bikes who use a LED replacement fixtures to include the $800-$1000 J.W. Speaker lamps here's why:

LED Performance - With a LED lamp such as the J.W. Speaker lamp, the LED's are mounted facing forward so the only light projected in front of the bike is what is actually produced by the element itself.  I’m not saying the LED’s don’t provide a bright light, what I’m saying is; since they do not have reflectors with any depth, they have little ability to reflect and focus the light as efficient as the stock fixture.



In Contrast -  When you use the Sylvania Xenon bulb or even the stock halogen bulb in your stock Zero light fixture, you’ll now have the distinct advantage of the fixtures numerous reflectors which are built into the rear and sides of the stock housing. These reflectors are carefully designed to reflect and focus light at a greater distance than the LED's can achieve because the reflectors take the light from many angles of the bulb and combine it to focus at a more confined area at greater distance.

Fixture Depth - The Zero’s lamp fixture is well designed thanks to its depth allows larger mirrors. This is why there is such a concentration of light directly in front of the bike on high beam as shown in my images below. The depth with the stock fixture allows more reflection area and ability to focus the light.





Shoulder Light  - Another advantage of the stock Zero fixture with its H4 Bulb is some of the mirrors or reflectors are designed at angles to divert light to the right and left shoulders, this is another advantage of fixture depth. 

LED Replacements - Most Led’s bulb Replacements for the Zero will not work as well as the Sylvania Xenon Halogen since most LED’s only use two elements - so half of the reflectors in the lamp fixture are not used. Another drawback of these 2 sided replacement led’s is un-even lobs of light that spill in unintended reflectors of the fixture.




Regards - Mike

Quote from: Doug S on February 23, 2017, 02:07:03 AM

Let me just add my voice to the chorus...fantastic work, Erasmo! This bike needs a good fairing more than any other motorcycle does. It looks like the factory did it, except it's a little too good-looking. Give me a good retro motorcycle look any day.

Thank you but apart from finding the right parts most of the honour goes to my panelbeater. He has over 30 years of experience with fairings so instead of fumbling around myself I've outsourced the actual work to him Can't wait until it is finished and painted, I'm going for a two tone orange-black to match the current lines on the bike.

Quote from: MrDude_1 on February 23, 2017, 01:43:24 AM

Quote from: Erasmo on February 22, 2017, 09:55:03 PM

Close but no sigar, it is an older NTV model from a Dutch company called Schurgers that does a lot of fairing work, here it is on a NTV:

Since HawkGT sized fairings fit so well... I wonder if we should all look into using the fairings they put on Hawk GTs for racing...

Depends on your goal with them, there are plenty race fairings for small bikes already. And while the size will work this build also needs some custom struts to keep it together.

Congrats, super job - you should send some images to Zero to see if you can spark some interest on their part. Instead of going with bigger packs for more range this seems to be the answer without the additional weight.

I love the front end on the Vigo although I don't really see the getting 400 miles of range.

You must mean Beamer "Jugs" like these right? LOL

wontuan

Thanks for your reply - however I’m sure you’ll understand that after you publicly stated on this same forum you worked for Farisis, designed the BMS and knew the folks at Zero, others (myself included) would just assume that your speak on some authority for the company.

While I appreciate your explanation of your comments, since I work on high-level lithium powered military drone aircraft, the system that Zero uses and its cell management is very basic to the equipment that we design, fly and maintain.

What is important out of all this is; the fact that my disclosure here and in writing was instrumental in Zero’s decision to revise their recommendations of the bike being plugged in and unattended for long periods of time. While I’m certainly not in the position to comment on behalf of Zero’s motivations, It’s my humble opinion is it was revised to protect the users and certainly to protect Zero from any liability for their incorrect recommendations. I also feel the health of the battery is of minimal important since its small losses would not be an issue during the warranty period.

On a final note, as bike riders we should all be visual to make our sport safer. It is the responsibility of every owner to make sure our bikes are safe. If they have a fault then regardless of loyalty to the manufacture, its up to us to make in public to first spread the word to others and secondly to force the manufactures to accept the responsibility for their mistake and make it right.

While I’m not looking for any credit, it was the efforts of myself and 6 others who spear-headed a two year effort to go against (BRP) Bombardier Recreational Products the manufacture of Can Am Spyder when in 2008 they installed defective dynamic electric power steering units that would suddenly stop from over-load protection while the bike was in use. Making matters worse, as the rider had to turn the wheel harder when it quit, when the unit suddenly became active again, it resulted in over-steering accidents by the hundreds. Our group notified countless clubs, dealers and organizations and media to inform riders of this problem which avoided many accidents.

After almost 2 years and thousands of complaints and documented accidents, BRP still refused to accept responsibility to change out the steering units.  In 2009 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration stepped in and forced BRP to change the steering unit in over 10,000 Can Am’s. This clearly shows that some manufactures like BRP could care less of their customers safety - we’re simply a VIN number to them.

Regards - Mike Mas

While I appreciate all the "Pointless" comments and questions to otherwise distract from the topic of lithium battery safety . . . .

1) His comments (1&2) of the processors freezing was exactly what I outlined in my article below:

"Voltage Spikes - There is always concern for voltage spikes in the power grid which could damage the charger or BMS. In addition, spikes may cause the processor to freeze with uncertain results causing an overcharge situation.
During a lightning storm, a close proximity strike could easily destroy not only the charging circuit, but also spike the bikes processor and circuitry. Therefore any time a lightning storm is near you’ll want to immediately unplug the 110 v cord, of course this is not possible when if the bike is unattended!

Uninterruptible Power Supply System - If for any reason you have to leave your bike plugged in and unattended, you can provide some additional protection with the use of a uninterruptible power supply system. While the battery back up feature will be minimal, it will still provide momentary inverter power during spikes in voltage as well as “open the circuit” in the event of a strike.  Keep in mind, if a lighting spike gets in your bike, the damage could far exceed the cost of a UPS so its a good investment. I presently use these UPS units on not only my computers but also on all my TV’s, security camera, Wi-Fi System, alarm and even for my RV power."

2)  His comments (3&4) was assuming a direct hit. I never insinuated a direct lighting strike which would of course raise the voltage above 117 volts and of course weld the contacts. My comments were directed towards a strike from a remote location even miles from the bike which would elevate the line voltage momentarily and destroy the processor.  Have you guys never heard of a lighting power surge or surge protection? 

Regards - Mike Mas

Mike you are right about some cheap HobbyKing Turnigy Lipo that can sometimes be dangerous being left plugged in with some really cheap knockoff Chinese chargers.  Something fails, it overcharges and ultimately it catches on fire.  Also your experience with drones uses the lightest batteries in exchange for safety, and carrying the minimum weight of safety devices, or none at all.  Also there is no human on board.  If a drone catches fire it's not good, but not a primary design consideration versus the weight, performance and flight time.

However it's a totally different ball game with electric vehicles including Zero.  There are multiple layers of safety unlike what your drones have.  There is ABSOLUTELY NO safety risk leaving a Zero plugged in ever! Period!   The issue was about long term observation and data that the packs longevity might be increased if not left at a full state of charge when not in use for a long time.  But I can understand Low on Cash's confusion and his desire to draw a comparison to things he believes are apples and apples, where they are not anywhere close.  I always have to pick on Mike that he is a Trump supporter and will believe anything, and is also highly immune and resistant to facts if it doesn't support what he already believes.  So I probably won't be able to get Mike to see the light, I worry he is a lost cause, but I hope to help others who's star shines a little bit brighter than Mikes does.

Since Zero's previous recommendations were to leave the bike plugged in at all times, all they are doing is saying this isn't REQUIRED any more on 2013 and up bikes as long as you are over 30%

If you ride 6-8 miles a day for instance, you don't have to plug in every night if you don't want to.  You could plug in once a week or plug in every night if you want to, its totally up to you now.  All Zero recommends is not to leave it under 30% SOC after a ride, charge to at least 60% if it won't be ridden for a long period (over winter or a long vacation overseas for example).

But Zero isn't saying you can't or shouldn't leave it plugged in because of some safety issue Low on Cash, that's not it and you are completely incorrect to suggest that Mike, and I worry others new to the forum might think this is part of it and it's not.  The Zero cell chemistry is very stable to 4.15v and the redundancy of overcharge protection prevents any possibility of an issue.

Again the purpose is 2 fold:

1) to make owning a Zero easier for the rider.  If you get home and the bike is at 75% and you can plug in, great! If you get home and for some reason don't want to, that's fine too.  You have more freedom now and will not void your warranty for leaving the bike unplugged as long as it remains above 30%, that is the main clarification.

2) we now have a good decade of battery pack longevity and it is noticed that there might be some benefit to not leaving a pack sitting at 100% state of charge to even further extend the pack health past the designed lifespan.  Nothing to worry about if you feel more comfortable plugging it in each night, that is totally fine.

It has been known there are 3 main things that can accelerate battery degradation: heat, and time at high state of charge.

Keeping the bike stored in the shade if possible is always a good idea, and if you care to charge to 80-90% before you go to bed, and then plug in first thing in the morning, this would be ideal, but not practical for most.  Would love to see an app one day that did this for you and you just programmed in the time you need to leave for work and it topped the bike off 15-20 minutes before you were ready to go.

It's just something small that could perhaps extend battery life a small amount, but not worth changing your habits.  I study batteries and battery degradation and I don't do this myself most of the time, so I don't expect anyone out there to do this, just sharing my ideal scenario for the purpose of sharing knowledge and clearing up misinformation spread by others - Talking to you Low on Cash!

Bottom line, no need to change anything you do, but if you can't plug in one night and you are over 30%, don't stress about it one bit.

- Electric Terry

Terry thanks for your detailed reply however its important that you note that regardless of who makes or the cost of the lithium cells (China, Japan, US, Tesla, etc.) when any of these cells are over-charged it will result in a fire.

Your comments on processor protocol are only valid if the main processor and its associated systems, i.e. BMS etc. are operating properly. We all know of countless past and present failures already on record.  I suggest you re-read my now locked original post:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6583.0  where I carefully explain in the event of a processor freeze or BMS freeze or a simple nearby lighting strike which makes that system freeze in a charge condition, it will raise the cells levels above their designed threshold and it will result in a fire. Without being redundant, there is no reason at all to leave a bike plugged in and un-attended for weeks and months at a time since it is not in the best health of the batteries and poses a fire risk.

We all know just how bad a hover board lithium fire is . . .  well you can multiply that times a hundred, a 13kw lithium pack is essentially a bomb.  My findings which were only made with regard to safety of others were validated by both Zero's recent change in charging policy and further confirmed by Farasis.

Regards - Mike

At expressway speeds the 2017 DSR will use an average of 1% of battery per mile.