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Topics - GoneToPlaid

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1
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Elcon / TC / Diginow charger
« on: August 25, 2023, 12:11:31 AM »
I have four Elcon TC HK-J 3300W Chargers on my Zero motorcycle, and one has failed. I would like to replace this single charger. It is from one of Diginow's kits.

It needs to be a 3rd gen one, with the removable heat sinks but no quick disconnects on the cables. The 4th gen ones won't fit into my charger boxes. Does anyone have one I could buy?


2
Backcountry Discovery Routes is an organization that creates off-highway routes for dual-sport and adventure motorcycle travel in the US. Recently they have partnered with Zero motorcycles, and some of their recent videos include the Zero DSR/X.

Black Hills BDR-X:
https://youtu.be/jBBJx8JgeGs?t=1296

Scouting the future Northern California route:


These guys rode the Colorado BDR on DSRs:
https://electriccyclerider.com/2021/11/14/1000-rocky-mountain-miles-on-electric-motorcycles/

I've done the Northeast BDR, Mid-Atlantic BDR and the PA Wilds BDR/X on my DSR. The MABDR was also with my friend Ben on a LiveWire:
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/two-bikes-one-jug-zero-dsr-2022-2eride-the-nebdr-and-trans-lab-with-an-electric-motorcycle.1594713/
https://amytracker.wordpress.com/2023/06/28/2023-mabdr-two-electric-motos/
https://amytracker.wordpress.com/2023/07/01/2023-pa-wilds-bdr-x/

Do any of you know of any other BDR routes that have been ridden with electric motorcycles?

3
The stock Zero DSR comes fitted with a belt final drive. This is quieter, and probably a bit more efficient than a chain drive, but is not a good choice for any significant off-pavement riding. Belts are more likely to snap and break with rocks and shock loading, and are more difficult to replace on the side of the road (on the DSR, you have to remove the swingarm). If the Zero was being used mostly as a street bike, and not trying to be used as a proper adventure bike, keeping the belt drive would be the obvious choice.

For 2021, I opted for the factory chain conversion kit. Over the course of a year, we’ve decided that the factory Zero chain conversion kit is poorly thought out, and seems like an afterthought from Zero. It is not durable, and wore out quickly. We cannot recommend buying it. (See below for what to buy instead). I am no longer using any of the parts supplied by Zero for the chain drive on the DSR.

Very quickly, it became clear that the sprocket ratios were significantly different than the stock belt drive. The stock belt drive has 20T front pulley, 90T rear, for a ratio of 4.5. The OEM chain conversion kit has 12T front sprocket, 65T rear, for a ratio of 5.42. This does provide more torque, but at 60 MPH the speedo reads 72 MPH. The speedo was excessively inaccurate, as was the odometer, which made accurately estimating range difficult. It is possible to take the bike to a dealer and have them re-program the speedometer for the new sprocket ratio. However, experience tells us that a 12 tooth front sprocket is getting pretty small, and tends to cause excessive chain wear. Also, the dealer is a 1.5 hr drive away.

Instead, I opted to change to a 15T front sprocket for a ratio of 4.33 for the 2021 TAT trip. Close enough to the stock ratio not to bother with a trip to the dealer, but now 3.8% taller. This worked ok, but the larger front sprocket caused the chain to rub on a motor mount at full suspension jounce.

During the trip, we also discovered the drawback of the aluminum 65 tooth rear sprocket provided by Zero. It wore out in less than 5000 mi, which was inconvenient on a 7600 mi trip.


Aluminum sprockets are short lived

In contrast, steel sprockets often last well over 10,000 miles (my 150 hp Multistrada once went nearly 25,000 miles on one set of chain and sprockets). Zero does not even have a part number for just the rear sprocket, only for the entire chain conversion kit. The dealer was able to order just the sprocket, but Zero won’t drop ship it to your location, only to the dealer. We had to pay to ship it to the dealer, and then pay to ship it to our location. It was expensive, time consuming, and difficult. Finding a large enough steel sprocket to fit turned out to be a bigger challenge than anticipated. After much searching over winter of 2021/2022, it wasn’t until our suspension guy suggested Supersprox that I got any traction. More on that in a bit.

More problems with the factory chain conversion kit became clear when was time to change the front sprocket again. The 12 tooth front sprocket supplied by Zero, and the 15 tooth that I replaced it with, have a much narrower engagement on the splined motor shaft than the original belt pulley. The hub on belt pulley (the part that engages with the splines on the shaft) is roughly 22mm thick. The hub on the 13 tooth sprocket supplied by Zero and the 15 tooth that I originally used are only about 5.7mm thick, and thus engage much less of the shaft. Zero supplies a spacer for this reason, to help locate the front sprocket on the shaft. Take a look at how much of the shaft is left after using the spacer: the sprocket is engaging on just 5.7mm at the end the end of the shaft. This seems like a poor design, and we’re a bit surprised it survived the entire Trans America Trail like that.


Front sprocket was just cantilevered out there on the end 5mm of shaft.

There are several more problems with what Zero supplied for the front sprocket: 1) the sprocket retaining washer supplied by Zero is aluminum, not steel. 2) the spacer provided to locate the sprocket on the shaft is aluminum, not steel, and 3) Due to the soft aluminum parts and the narrow shaft engagement, over time, the sprocket was becoming increasingly loose on the spline shaft. When I pulled the front sprocket to replace it, I discovered how loose it had become on the shaft, and that there was visible wear on the splines. The forces from the chain were gradually causing the sprocket to work its way looser and looser, and causing increasing wear on that spot on the shaft. It’s simply bad mechanical design.

Other people solve this problem by using Loctite 680 bearing retaining compound to install the sprocket on the shaft. The Loctite helps take up any space between the sprocket hub and the shaft, preventing the sprocket from working its way loose over time. (It also makes it really tough to remove the sprocket for replacement). The Loctite may have been enough to prevent shaft damage had I known to use it the first time. (Zero did not provide any written instructions for installing the chain conversion kit). However, after many thousands of miles, the spline shaft on my bike is now worn too much to get full engagement, even with a new sprocket. It’s doubtful that the Loctite can completely compensate at this point. After looking into it, it does not appear possible to replace the spline shaft. Zero claims you have to buy a whole new motor, which would be very expensive. (I do think I caught the damage before actually damaging the motor).

To avoid buying a new motor, I did a little more research on front sprockets with a wider hub, that would have more engagement with the unworn parts of the spline shaft. That, in combination with the Loctite 680, may be enough to have proper mechanical engagement.

Thus, the plan for 2022 is: 1) an off-the-shelf 13T steel front sprocket (Supersprox CST-1307-13-2) that has a wider hub (13.55mm) and will fit the Zero’s drive shaft, 2) a custom 60T rear from Supersprox, and 3) a standard 520 D.I.D. VX3 O-ring chain.





The sprocket ratio is now 4.62. This is 2.5% shorter than stock – close enough to not bother with reprogramming. The front steel sprocket has a wide 13.55mm hub for more engagement on the shaft, is installed using Loctite 680, with a steel retaining washer. I had a custom steel spacer made (thanks, Mike!) with the correct dimensions to locate the new sprocket properly on the shaft. The steel spacer and new steel retaining washer should not yield like the aluminum parts Zero supplied, which contributed to the sprocket working its way loose. The rear sprocket from Supersprox is custom made to order with an aluminum center to match the Zero’s wheel bolt pattern, and a steel outer ring for durability. It’s pretty trick. We’re excited to see how it performs.

One caveat – the Supersprox front sprocket was a little loose on the motor shaft, around 0.035” play, and ended up not exactly centered on the shaft the first time he installed it. At certain speeds, this eccentricity caused some pulsation from the drivetrain. I took it all back apart (NOT easy!) and used this old trick to center the sprocket on the shaft: Strands from #10 Cu wire, each about 0.019? diameter, worked great. This centered the sprocket, then the Loctite 680 bonds it all together.

COUNTERSHAFT WEAR - FIX AND PREVENT
http://bloggis.se/Tramsvalp/85103The

Here is the parts list for the Zero DSR chain conversion that should work much better than the factory Zero chain conversion kit. I’ll try to remember to update this space after running this for a while to see if this system performs as expected.

BOM for the Zero DSR chain conversion:
• 60T custom aluminum and steel rear sprocket – Supersprox [see order form pic]
• 13T front steel sprocket – Supersprox stock part # CST-1307-13-2
• Spacer for front sprocket [see PDF for drawing] (I made 3 spacer rings of different lengths. The Middle one 0.340? long worked best.)
• Steel front sprocket retaining washer – McMaster-Carr 98424A111
• 520 D.I.D. VX3 O-ring chain – 108 links? Buy 120 links and cut it as needed.
• 10-pack bolts for rear sprocket (4 needed) McMaster-Carr 90236A168
• Loctite 680 – for sprocket on splines
• Loctite 242 – for the front and rear sprocket bolts
• The front sprocket bolt is from Zero’s belt drive; the only reused part.












I've tested it a good bit, and it seems solid. This summer we're riding the NEBDR and up to Newfoundland with it, so I'll report back afterwards. I hope this helps.

Thanks to lukec53 for finding many front sprocket options:
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=11018.0

Adapted from:
https://amytracker.wordpress.com/2022/06/26/2022-zero-dsr-mods-in-pursuit-of-more-electric-adventure-riding



4
Brandon Nozaki Miller has posted the Diginow Supercharger source code on GitHub. Thanks, Brandon!

https://github.com/RIAEvangelist/SCv2-sketches

7
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Spare Diginow v2.0 controllers?
« on: June 24, 2021, 01:12:17 AM »
I'm using 4 Diginow 2.0 chargers on my DSR, and planning to leave on a big trip (~6 weeks) later this summer.  It seems to me that a single point of failure is the Diginow control module.  I could do without one of the four chargers, but there's no redundancy for the controller.  I took out the OEM charger to save weight, so no backup there either.  Most failures can be resolved somehow, either through Zero or aftermarket, but with the Diginow chargers out of production this is a particular weak spot.  To be clear: these chargers have been working flawlessly for me and I have no particular reason to doubt their reliability.  It's just that this one part breaking could end the trip.

Does anyone have a spare controller to sell me, either now or just as a contingency in the unlikely event that this part fails? 

Thanks!

8
I have a '21 DSR with Power Tank.  It has been working well now for 1800 miles.  Yesterday I rode it about 200 miles, with two 12-kW charging sessions.  Made it home with about 15% capacity showing on the dash, then plugged in to the OEM charger overnight.  This morning, I turned on the bike and only heard one click, from the main battery contactor.  No click from the Power Tank contactor.  The bike will not run.  The dash showed 79% charge, pretty close to 4/5ths one would expect if the power tank were not contributing.  The dash now shows error codes 0032, 0053 and 0054.  My guess is the primary one is 0032 "module variance too high".  I pulled the covers and the Power Tank status lights show just one red LED blinking.  The main battery shows all four: 1 red and 3 green blinking.  This fits with the 0032 error code - the main battery is charged while the power tank battery is below 25% charge.

Error codes are here:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Error_Codes
This suggests "Provide a balancing charge with the onboard charger".  Which I am doing now.

The only other reference I've found for this problem is here:
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9695.msg85947#msg85947

Should I try running down the main battery to nearly 0%, then plug in the charger again?  Maybe I can get the voltage close enough between the two packs that they will sync up again.  Just idling the bike will take several days to pull down the main battery, so I may rig up a dump load (like a 1500W radiant resistance heater).

Any other ideas?


Edit to add:
It seems to me that the root problem is not just that the batteries are mismatched for voltage, but that the Power Tank did not charge properly last night, while the main battery did charge.  What would cause that, and how would I fix it?

[ETA 2021-06-23]
It was a bad BMS board in the power tank, and Zero fixed it under warranty.


Thanks!

9
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Zero DSR Front Sprocket Torque
« on: April 15, 2021, 09:44:02 PM »
All, I'm changing from a belt drive to chain drive on my DSR, and I need the torque spec for the bolt that holds the front sprocket onto the motor shaft.  Does anyone know?

I've looked in this forum, the official Zero manual, and here: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Fastener_Specifications

Thanks!

10
I want to be able to use several sources with my 4 Diginow Superchargers.  I have two on each side, in aluminum panniers, with a J1772 socket for each pair.  I have adapters that will let me run 3 SCs from a NEMA 14-50, or each charger individually from a NEMA 5-15 outlet (at roughly half power and on separate circuits).

I'd also like to use Tesla destination chargers, and am interested in ideas about how best to do that.  It seems these come in 8kW and 16kW varieties (~40A and 80A).  An 8kW Tesla plug would run 2 SCs, perhaps using a TeslaTap Mini, like this:
https://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=143

One of these would allow me to plug in a Tesla EVSE plug into my J1772 socket, and then charge using 2 SCs.  So I would need two TeslaTaps to charge at the full rate using all 4 SCs.  Are these adapters any good?  They had better be, for the price!

The higher-power TeslaTap model would allow charging all 4 SCs from a single 16kW Tesla plug, but my J1772 sockets are only rated for 32A and this would be no advantage.

Any ideas for how best to use 4 Superchargers with Tesla destination EVSEs?  I'm willing to make an adapter, or buy something off the shelf.  Priorities are light weight and reliability.

11
I just mounted four Diginow SCv2 chargers on my DSR, and rode over to the electric co-op office to test with their Chargepoint EVSE.  I had trouble activating both plugs at once.  I used my phone and NFC to authenticate, which would unlatch the plugs.  The first one I plugged in to my chargers worked, but the second one would not.  Scanning my phone again would not let me use the other plug.  Eventually I made a second Chargepoint account, and used it to authenticate and was then able to use the second plug.

Is there an easier way to use dual J1772 plugs with a Chargepoint station? Searching this forum and the web has not turned up anything for me so far.

I mounted two chargers per side, in little aluminum side boxes.  It's not done yet, but ready enough for testing.

12
I just bought a 2021 DSR 14.4, with a dealer-installed 3.6 Power Tank extra battery.  I've taken it out for a couple rides, and noticed a discrepancy between the % of battery used on a trip, and the Wh/mi reported for the trip.  If I use 100% charge = 15.8 kWh nominal capacity (main battery + power tank), the math doesn't work out.  But if I use 100% charge = 12.6 kWh (just the main battery), the calculations all make sense.

I used the Zero Android app to connect to the bike, and opened the Firmware Manager.  It shows MBB v31, and BMS v38.  See screenshot.  Shouldn't it also show the power tank's BMS version?

I removed the seat, and verified the connections.  The power cabling runs to the motor controller, and the communication connector looks correctly seated and has no bent or loose pins.  Also, on the left side of the extra battery, there is a small round window to view what appear to be 4 status LEDs.  With the bike turned on, the left-most LED is Red, and the other three are Green.  See picture.  Any idea what these lights mean?

When I turn on the keyswitch, I hear the main contactor close, followed closely by the power tank contactor.  So that much is working.

So, I'm suspicious that the Power Tank is not working to add range to the bike, or at least that the MBB isn't configured correctly.  Is there a procedure to verify that it is working?

And yes - it's under warranty so I could just take it back and let the dealer sort it out.  But the dealer is a long way away (4 hours one way), and if it's something simple I can fix that would be a lot faster.

Thanks!

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