ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: StraydogEOMFD on August 14, 2016, 02:28:34 AM
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So since shortly after the 2016 models were released I have been interested in the FXS with the IPM motor. I was between the FXS and the KTM 500 EXC. After a lot of back forth between the FXS and EXC, I wound up going with the EXC mostly because I felt that electric bikes are so close but not quite there yet and I liked the better off road pedigree of the EXC for the local trail riding I have about 15 minutes away. I have no doubts electric motorcycles are the future but the thought of range anxiety vs a proven gas platform plus off road capability of the EXC steered me away just barely.
Fast forward to today, August 13th from February-I have maybe 350 miles on the EXC and I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice? I don't ride the dirt nearly as often as I thought I would, the supermoto wheels I bought for the EXC have been a constant pain in the ass, I don't have much desire to ride the street with the SM wheels because the bike just doesn't feel right-gets real hot real quick, feels like if I'm not hauling ass the bike isn't happy, commuting feels like a waste of miles and more maintenance on the bike. Which brings me to the next thing-I don't have nearly as much time as I used to and doing a $40 oil change every 15 hrs where I have to lay the bike down on a handlebar is not something I look forward to.
I have done 2 track days with the 500 which were fun but the bike is definitely way too much for a go kart track even if it's set up for SM. I feel like the much lower maintenance and purity of the ride (no transmission) with the FXS would be a huge plus and a lot more fun. Problem is, I just paid off all of my debt and I'm concerned about getting back into more debt with the price tag of the FXS. I'm also concerned with being able to keep the FXS charged at the tracks I ride which don't always have power in the pits. I understand there are some decent off board charging options available and I have a 2 kW 110V generator but I'm not sure if that's enough to keep the bike going all day.
In the end, I want to ride some easy trails once in a while but mostly hit some SM/Go kart tracks more than anything, maybe do light easy commuting (not a focus though, I have an FZ07 that does that just fine as is plus is good for big road course track days, long distance rides, and two-up).
Any advice? I feel like I'm spinning my wheels (no pun intended).
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I cannot comment on the FXs because I have not even gotten my DSR yet. Deleted my first response because I did not read your whole post when I wrote it.
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The performance of the 500 is out of this world without a doubt when the bike is in it's element. I feel like I may have got sucked in by all the glowing reviews and wasn't honest with my ability and didn't realize how much things were going to change with work and family this year. No matter what my true love is riding supermoto tracks, preferably with dirt. I think the best way forward is to just focus on that and let my FZ07 handle regular street duties, what I'm trying to figure out in the end is if the FXS will be a better fit than the EXC or should I just keep the EXC since it's paid for and let the FXS continue to get better. Either way, keeping the EXC and getting an FXS is not an option, it's one or the other. I've had the EXC on craigslist and cycle trader but have yet to get any legitimate interest in the 3 weeks it's been up.
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The performance of the 500 is out of this world without a doubt when the bike is in it's element. I feel like I may have got sucked in by all the glowing reviews and wasn't honest with my ability and didn't realize how much things were going to change with work and family this year. No matter what my true love is riding supermoto tracks, preferably with dirt. I think the best way forward is to just focus on that and let my FZ07 handle regular street duties, what I'm trying to figure out in the end is if the FXS will be a better fit than the EXC or should I just keep the EXC since it's paid for and let the FXS continue to get better. Either way, keeping the EXC and getting an FXS is not an option, it's one or the other. I've had the EXC on craigslist and cycle trader but have yet to get any legitimate interest in the 3 weeks it's been up.
Well you know you are going to take the big depreciation hit from new right? To be honest I love to find bikes like this to buy but I am not looking. Where are you located? I would advertise in the forums like advrider.com and ktmforum.com
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Yeah, well aware about the cons of buying a new bike. The good thing is I don't owe anything on it at least. Selling it with 350ish miles, a $1500 set of SM wheels and bunch of other little very nice to have upgrades. I know you don't get crap for parts when selling and you are best to sell separate but I really don't want to be dealing with getting low balled on the bike and the wheels. The one actual not-scam offer I've had so far was $8k for the bike only (even though the ad specifically says in clear, plain English I'm not selling them separate). That's absurd and I'll keep it for another year before I sell it for 8k, even if I only put another 300 damn miles on it.
All that being said, I don't buy bikes to sell them, I buy them to have fun with them. If I'm not having fun then it's time to move on however that doesn't mean I'm giving the bike away. One thing I realize about the Zero is it's a far more niche market which means I wouldn't be moving it any time soon if I didn't like it which is another reason I went EXC in February.
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I can only comment to my DSR which is $16k USD price tag. Even with rebates, factoring in the OEM accessories plus the faster charging system you could count me as being into this bike somewhere between $20k to $22k.
Now, I paid cash for the bike, and I have a Subaru car (in a bit of disrepair and also fully paid for) I'm weening myself off of for the summer; I'm motivated to use the DSR every single day no exceptions (until winter time when I re-evaluate for conditions). I'm losing money hand over fist buying a $20k bike no matter the gains over driving the Subaru. The app from Zero estimates I've "saved" about $300 over the fuel costs of my Subaru in 4000mi over three months.
The twenty grand? Interest rates are such crap right now I don't even miss it. What really makes me smile every day is that, whenever I want to, I can tap a button to put the bike into Sport mode and go 100mph in about 6 seconds. I say to myself inside my helmet, "Oh, okay. It does that! Cool." The bike has a full 80mi+ "tank" every time I use it, because plugging it in has become part of the 90 second routine of taking my helmet off and walking away from the bike.
Now I'm kind of wanting to get an FXS too. First will be a Tesla Model 3 though so back to saving away $1000 each month...
Oh and P.S. it's one hell of a grocery-getter. Check out the score from big box store today (attached). Also not pictured the over-stuffed stock tank bag I got a bunch of bananas, four pounds of turkey, and a baby loaf of cheese. About 56lbs of groceries altogether. It was a little "oh, no!" in the twisties on the mountain pass getting home. Arrived home with 3% state of charge on an 82mi trip (spirited riding all the way - until loading with groceries of course). It's on a slow charge now and will cost me less than $3 to fuel up.
Sounds like you wanted the KTM but got the KTM and now you want the FXS. Obviously, go get the FXS and then no regrets because you're getting what you want!
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Thanks for the reply, sounds like you are having a blast with your Dual Sport. I saw one today at the dealer, looks like a fun bike. My main concerns at the moment are the FXS handling abuse on the SM and kart tracks, being able to keep it charged enough to last all day and going right back into debt, any pointers in those areas?
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I'll post this here so you can hop to it but watch the two videos and watch all of the second one for sure. I don't know what they cost but that bike has to be "THE" cutting edge of cart track style fun from an electric and really just fun period. As for debt remember you only need one kidney.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5988.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5988.0)
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How would you charge the FXS at the kart track? The capacity might be tolerable, but the charge time would surely be a problem unless you sorted out a fast charger (or spent a ridiculous amount on extra batteries).
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I'll post this here so you can hop to it but watch the two videos and watch all of the second one for sure. I don't know what they cost but that bike has to be "THE" cutting edge of cart track style fun from an electric and really just fun period. As for debt remember you only need one kidney.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5988.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5988.0)
And I do have 2 kidneys, interesting....(ha!)
I was following that post back in July, hadn't checked back on it since. I had watched the PP stuff, so freaking cool.
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How would you charge the FXS at the kart track? The capacity might be tolerable, but the charge time would surely be a problem unless you sorted out a fast charger (or spent a ridiculous amount on extra batteries).
That's one large hang up for me at the moment. Extra batteries don't seem to make sense, I was thinking the Elenco charger with a harness to allow using just that instead of requiring the on-board and off-board chargers which in turn highly suggests using two different circuits to charge due to draw (apparently Hollywood Electrics can build up something of that sort if requested). As for power supply, I have a Honda EU2000i generator but was looking at beefier, cheaper ones (read-noisier but higher Watts/220V). Suggestions otherwise?
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https://vimeo.com/175470865 (https://vimeo.com/175470865)
^The SM track I have "close" by that I have been to twice but plan on making many more trips to.
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The irony of charging up a Zero from a petrol-driven generator. You could bungee it on the back and charge as you ride.
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Said irony is certainly not lost on me :P What other options are there?
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You know as for charging I've wondered why a two brick FX takes as long to charge as a four brick DS. I have the DS but I guess the FX has a smaller on board charger. It may be a waste of time but if you "really" wanted to charge at the track contact the owner and tell him you'd go halves in a nima 14/50 outlet like for RV parks. You could use elcons like Ben Rich and juice them up pretty quick. The track owner might get some out of town kart racers wanting to RV to his track. Might be worth a shot and cheaper in the long run to slow gas generator, though I have no idea how much it cost to put in a nima :)
Ok one other possible lead to help you out on a stock FXS. Okay two one just check cycletrader but I'll pm you another one that might work.
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The onboard charger on the FXS is pretty small and I'm pretty sure a lot lower wattage than the DS (FXS is only 650W).
From what I'm gathering so far it seems like I'd be better off just waiting a few more years and sticking with my 500 for now :(
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The FXS doesn't really behave like the racing supermotos that you're used to.
It might do fine but you have to keep in mind that it will be a different feeling and you should be sure that you won't feel disappointed.
Not only is the range very limited on the FXS, but a full charge takes 9 hours with the standard charger.
The combination of not having a clutch, almost no throttle feel and not being able to wheelie makes the ride very different and less controllable.
Keep all that in mind, be absolutely positive that you're OK with that, so you don't end up selling another bike within a short amount of time.
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I feel your pain. It took me 3 months to sell my beemer. Lots of banging my head against a brick wall. But now I'm quite happy with my Zero.
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The FXS doesn't really behave like the racing supermotos that you're used to.
It might do fine but you have to keep in mind that it will be a different feeling and you should be sure that you won't feel disappointed.
Not only is the range very limited on the FXS, but a full charge takes 9 hours with the standard charger.
The combination of not having a clutch, almost no throttle feel and not being able to wheelie makes the ride very different and less controllable.
Keep all that in mind, be absolutely positive that you're OK with that, so you don't end up selling another bike within a short amount of time.
How would it be less controllable without a clutch? I thought it would be a simpler ride not having to worry about gear selection or stalling in the slow corners and dirt? Supermoto racing doesn't need the ability to wheelie like woods racing does so I really don't care about wheelies. The charging thing is an issue however the 9 hours is from 0 to full isn't it? Would 15-20 minute sessions on track drain it all the way from 100 to close to 0? If yes, then yeah, definitely would not fit the bill.
Aside from that, I also did some number crunching and with tax, doc and prep (really? what is there to prep? but they sure still charge it) the end of the day price tag is quite a bit of cash for me to be putting into something that I'm this questionable on. I of course think that Zero isn't asking too much for the bike, I just can't afford to justify it even if I sell the 500 because I'll still have to get at least a $3-4k loan. Sad face.
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First of all a disclaimer, I've only ever taken an ICE bike on a track, never my Zero FXS.
I don't have the range to get to a track, I'm working on a solution but this is the situation at present.
As for the clutch.
The Zero has a bit of a strange power delivery. There's a curve where at very small amount of throttle you barely get any acceleration and then it quickly ramps up.
The problem I'm having is that even just a crack of throttle is still jarring.
Say I'm going into a corner. I let off the throttle, get on the brakes, get off the brakes and lean into the turn, crack open the throttle and smoothly roll on. I just can't seem to get it to be smooth. The acceleration is jarring, like the smallest amount of current possible is still enough to kick the bike a bit (just a bit, but I want it to be smooth).
On an ICE bike you can use the clutch to smooth the power delivery.
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How would it be less controllable without a clutch? I thought it would be a simpler ride not having to worry about gear selection or stalling in the slow corners and dirt?
Simpler does not mean "more control".
If you're racing supermoto, you are probably not a beginner... so things like gear selection should be automatic to you and stalling is unlikely. Being simpler to operate does not help.
You have less control over the final power output of the bike.. and thats ok for commuting around and riding"normally". Its when you're being highly aggressive or technical that you start to miss having the additional control over the bike.
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I can only base my views on a test ride of a SR on the road, but I found that the power delivery was pretty smooth. I remember thinking how nice that would be on a track, especially on the exit of a corner where you'd be clicking up a gear on an ICE bike.
Anyway, when i was racing (a TZR250 about 20 years ago) I'd use the back brake to trim the power delivery rather than the clutch.
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I don't really like the rear brake on my FXS.
It's weak and doesn't have a very good feel to it.
I suppose it's weak because 90% of the time it's used in combination with regenerative braking, but that also hurts the control over it.
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I don't really like the rear brake on FXS.
It's weak and doesn't have a very good feel to it.
After the brakes are bedded in, try spraying water over them with a power washer. The rear brakes on my DSR squeeked and performed especially badly when new until I tried this.
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Where exactly should I spray?
How much pressure?
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Where exactly should I spray?
How much pressure?
What I do is to hand wash my brake discs with soapy automotive-wash and rinse off with a garden hose. I direct the clean water from the hose between the disc and the caliper brake pads. Then I dry the discs with a clean rag and immediately go for a ride and brake easily while coming down a local hill to warm up the disc and calipers to thoroughly dry everything out. So far I have never had any brake squealing using this cleaning method.
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Where exactly should I spray?
How much pressure?
What I do is to hand wash...
I just hit everything with a pressure washer from further away, and then from a short distance on the mirrors, headlamp, tires, and rotors.
Be careful (more careful than I was) about getting close with high pressure washer output, the bike is designed to survive the rain and some puddles, not a monster attack.
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How would it be less controllable without a clutch? I thought it would be a simpler ride not having to worry about gear selection or stalling in the slow corners and dirt?
Simpler does not mean "more control".
If you're racing supermoto, you are probably not a beginner... so things like gear selection should be automatic to you and stalling is unlikely. Being simpler to operate does not help.
You have less control over the final power output of the bike.. and thats ok for commuting around and riding"normally". Its when you're being highly aggressive or technical that you start to miss having the additional control over the bike.
It's pretty easy to stall in the tight dirt section stuff. I'm also not a highly skilled supermoto racer, I just have the most fun riding SM over all other types of riding.
Reading the above posts about power delivery, is there no programmable exponential for power delivery? I would think that wouldbe easy to do with an e-bike.
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The power delivery isn't programmable.
Yes, it's very easy to do, but Zero hasn't made it available to us.
You can only program max torque. This also affects throttle response in an undocumented way.
On a track you want max torque anyway so it's irrelevant.
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Hi.
Go for the FX. Put on sale my ktm duke 690 one week after getting my FX although I intended to keep it for the range. But riding it felt too prehistoric.
After 1 year I have 6000km on my FX and still love it.
Nevertheless was thinking some range wouldn't hurt and I went for a ducati hypermotard 939 trial. Nope, no fun with it, will have to wait a few years for the range...
A+
Marcel