ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: SM on March 23, 2017, 07:04:30 AM
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i traded in the 2016 SR i'd had for 4-5 months for a 2017. don't get me wrong, i loved the bike and put 17200km on it. the die was cast when i came in for service and while testing the 2017 SR smoked a zx-10 and 1000rr 3 stoplight in a row. fast, well under 3 seconds, at least a half-second faster than my 2016 SR was and so much faster than the S. i didn't try the 2017 DSR and now looking at the specs wondering if its even faster with the same gear ratios and a slightly larger rear wheel. i saw track times for the 2017 DSR as low as 2.7 posted on another forum.
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I love the 116 ft. pounds of torque on my '17 SR! Bought a '17 BMW R1200R earlier this month for my all day weekend rider. Spent a solid week on the BMW to get it broken in then went back to SR for commuting to work this week; could barely control myself as I was blowing pass everything in front of me on the freeway. No chance of that while riding the BMW, but that is not why I bought it. The SR just makes full throttle twists so exciting while running "Custom" map at 100% power/torque.
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Not ridden the 2017 DSR vs the 2017 SR, although I really don't presume the DSR being faster due to a larger aero profile in the front (is it still called drag when it's in the frontal area?). Plenty happy with my 2016 DSR and although I cheer the improvements of the 2017, the '16 never fails to put a smile on my face in sport mode even up steep grade hills so I'm o-kay with that. I did have a 2016 S for a week and I know what you're saying when you've tried the faster thing, then the slower thing is... noticeably slower.
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i measured my 16 SR with 4.3s 0-100km/h (maybe 4.15 0-60mp/h). So i was a bit disappointed because they advertised 3.3s. Now they are getting there, but removed the 0-60/0-100 numbers, who knows why.
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i saw track times for the 2017 DSR as low as 2.7 posted on another forum.
Who posted that and where? That is a quantum leap over the prior bikes. A 9.4% increase in torque and a 4.4% increase in horsepower don't add up to a 40% increase in 0-60 time. I am basing that on the best real-world times I have seen which have been in the high 3 second range. Even if you use Zero's formerly published time of 3.3 seconds (which was apparently highly optimistic) that gives an approximate 20% improvement - highly unlikely. I would like to see a real instrumented acceleration test done by experienced testers.
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This topic was discussed here before. Its because of the shorter gearing of the 17 models. But i also think 2.7 is not realistic
Edit: to do justice to the thread: i think the dsr and sr are simiar or the dsr a bit slower to 100, the 16 models were rated a bit slower than the sr's
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But i also think 2.7 is not realistic
A stock DSR probably won't do 2.7s 0-60mph. I think my 16' S can get close to 3s (it's not stock) and it should break 2.7s after I change the gearing ratio. I have been on a DSR that definitely does 2.7s easily.
Also, the SR and DSR are very similar. The SR is a hair faster due to the aerodynamics and the tires have a tad more grip but the DSR wheelies easier cause of the bigger wheels.
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Hey there :)
You get near 2s with your 16 S? not even SR? What did you do to that monster? :) and how do you measure the times?
thanks buddy
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Hey Guys - I found that there was almost no comparison between the 16 and 17 models, once you ride a DSR / SR you won't be happy with the 16's performance.
Obtaining an accurate 0-60 speed test is dependent on the posture of the rider. As we all know, our body is an air-brake for speed. I checked my 2017 DSR on numerous occasions and I was always able to get below 3.0 sec. As I mentioned, I always lean forward during these tests and most important I have a touring windshield which both offer a small advantage.
Regards - Mike
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Hey Guys - I found that there was almost no comparison between the 16 and 17 models, once you ride a DSR / SR you won't be happy with the 16's performance.
Obtaining an accurate 0-60 speed test is dependent on the posture of the rider. As we all know, our body is an air-brake for speed. I checked my 2017 DSR on numerous occasions and I was always able to get below 3.0 sec. As I mentioned, I always lean forward during these tests and most important I have a touring windshield which both offer a small advantage.
Regards - Mike
Good point but also the weight of the rider is a big factor too, so no one will get the same times as others unless they are the same weight.
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The acceleration of the DSR & SR is awesome, on the twisties here in N Georgia I can't go around the corners knee down like these younger guys, but thanks the insane acceleration on the pull-outs and straightaways, very few of those guys can keep up with me.
The real advantage of the DSR is its constant torque - Unlike a ICE bike where the engine only reaches high torque in just a portion of each gears ratio, the Zero is full blast all the time and extra happy at any speed from 0-70 mph.
Regards - Mike
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When I first got my 2015 SR, I thought it was so fast, I could be at risk of "throttle lock" . I'm just going off of my butt-dyno. I have no real numbers. My last motorcycle was a Yamaha R6 with race track weight reduction.
Over a year later I have put 14,000 miles on and the acceleration feels "normal" now. So either I have gotten use to it, or it has slowed down. I don't really know. At one point when I took it in and it got firmware update and I am not sure if that affected acceleration.
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Hey Guys - I found that there was almost no comparison between the 16 and 17 models, once you ride a DSR / SR you won't be happy with the 16's performance.
Obtaining an accurate 0-60 speed test is dependent on the posture of the rider. As we all know, our body is an air-brake for speed. I checked my 2017 DSR on numerous occasions and I was always able to get below 3.0 sec. As I mentioned, I always lean forward during these tests and most important I have a touring windshield which both offer a small advantage.
Regards - Mike
Seriously? My 16 Sr has plenty of torque, even with custom set at 40%, I'm completely satisfied. I have plenty of acceleration and that's with a passenger. I have no need for anything else.
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Hey Guys - I found that there was almost no comparison between the 16 and 17 models, once you ride a DSR / SR you won't be happy with the 16's performance.
Obtaining an accurate 0-60 speed test is dependent on the posture of the rider. As we all know, our body is an air-brake for speed. I checked my 2017 DSR on numerous occasions and I was always able to get below 3.0 sec. As I mentioned, I always lean forward during these tests and most important I have a touring windshield which both offer a small advantage.
Regards - Mike
Seriously? My 16 Sr has plenty of torque, even with custom set at 40%, I'm completely satisfied. I have plenty of acceleration and that's with a passenger. I have no need for anything else.
I dunno, a Ducatti Monster 791 was getting away from me and my 15-SR this weekend, I now have a hankering for a quicker 17 model...
(it was only just getting away though... I need to lose some weight ;) )
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OK, all this talk about the 2017 SR acceleration has piqued my interest to the point where I am going to test ride one this weekend. I will report back.
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The Hollywood Electrics guys put a smaller front sprocket (25 tooth from memory??) on my '16 DSR, and it's much punchier up to 60... I'm curious to try a '17, but there are things you can do to anything with the new motor setup; controller, sprockets, etc...
Anyone else know of any other hacks to get performance? And, does anyone have estimates on the 0-60 of '17s?
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I test rode a 2017 SR today and I was prepared to be blown away judging by some of the above comments. Well, I wasn't. First of all, the steering felt heavier than on my bike-that may just be due to mine having 7000+ miles and loosening up. I did like the brake pedal better, it is more traditional and not a dirt bike style pedal. The sound that the motor makes is a little different and there was the old familiar wounded Wookie noise during acceleration as the bike was brand new and the belt was howling. Speaking of acceleration, there is no way that this bike is going to do 0 to 60 in under three seconds, at least not the one I rode, and it was fully charged. I would be surprised if it is under four seconds. BTW, I am not a heavy rider - I'm about 155 in gear. It did not feel any faster from a standing start than my bike, in fact, mine has a sharper throttle response which I like better. I did some mid range 30 to 70 mph pulls and it felt about the same as my bike there as well, maybe just a little bit quicker. I use the old fashioned counting method (one thusand one, one thousand two... and I am pretty darn accurate) and came up with three seconds give or take 1/10 which is close to my bike. Where I did feel a difference was on the freeway. Accelerating from 70 the new bike did seem to pull harder but the difference was not dramatic. When I got back on my bike after the test ride it felt just fine and it certainly didn't feel much slower. If I had felt a big difference I was ready to trade it in for the '17 because I am an admitted acceleration junkie. The new bike is a little quicker - I would say proportional to the horsepower and torque increase which is not huge. According to my crude timing methods and butt dyno the increase is not enough to justify trading in my '15.
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According to my crude timing methods and butt dyno the increase is not enough to justify trading in my '15.
Thanks for your report!
Mine is a 2016 SR and I've no intention of upgrading until there are significant improvements.
In my case "improvement" equates to increased range. Of course I'd like more acceleration --
but I think Zero's done a great job in that regard.
I realize that "increased range" is a function of many factors:
- better aerodynamics
- faster charging
- increased battery capacity
But I'm really curious: do you know the trade-in value of your '15?
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According to my crude timing methods and butt dyno the increase is not enough to justify trading in my '15.
Thanks for your report!
But I'm really curious: do you know the trade-in value of your '15?
You're welcome. I don't need much of an excuse to test ride motorcycles, it is becoming a hobby. :) (BMW S1000XR, KTM Super Duke GT, Honda Africa Twin...the next one on my radar is the new Ducati SuperSport when it gets to the showroom later this month - that one might be a keeper).
We never got to the value of my '15, and frankly I'm almost afraid to find out. I got mine in late 2014 and paid the higher amount before Zero lowered the price so I'm going to take a bath when I do trade it in.
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Good Luck with trade in value on ANY alternative fuel vehicle.
Think of it as a $15,000 cell phone. After that, just enjoy the
ride. There are TONS of Electric Cars that are only a few
years old for well under $10,000. How bad does THAT hurt
to lose a major percentage of it's value in a year or two
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Why do they lose so much value?
In 5 years I expect my bike to pretty much be the same as it is now, maybe lose 10-20% of the range.
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Just pulled back on the throttle and was blown away by the acceleration of the new 2017 SR. I was under 3 seconds.
Commenting on the off-topic post by MichaelJohn. Nonsense. I sold my hybrid for more than I paid for it after 2 years when gas prices went up and the same dynamic hits electrics, especially in the America when gas is cheap. My brother sold his 2015 Zero S after a year for about £3000 less than he paid, about the same % hit he would have taken on any new motorcycle, much less than a colleague who insists on a new Ducati every year, and my bosses 2012 Tesla Roadster has held it's value great.
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Why do they lose so much value?
In 5 years I expect my bike to pretty much be the same as it is now, maybe lose 10-20% of the range.
All signs point to little to no range loss.
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Just pulled back on the throttle and was blown away by the acceleration of the new 2017 SR. I was under 3 seconds.
Commenting on the off-topic post by MichaelJohn. Nonsense.
Sorry, you're going to have to prove that to me with some empirical evidence. If the '17 SR could get to 60 in under 3 seconds Zero would shouting it to the world. The SR just doesn't take off hard enough from a standing start to achieve that kind of time. I tried several full throttle pulls yesterday and by the time I counted to 3 I was just reaching 50mph, not 60. I imagine that mid to high 3's might be achievable but not sub 3, no way. Prove me wrong with some real data and I will believe it.
How was my post off topic? I talked about acceleration, gyrocyclist asked me about the value of my '15 and I responded. If you think it's nonsense that I wil get much less for my '15 SR than I paid for it then you are sadly mistaken.
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Isn't there some sort of app for that? To measure 0-60MPH or 0-100km/h times? Can't imagine there isn't...
For the sake of argument I can use my Garmin Oregon 600 but that only takes a measurement every second... I have a '16 DSR by the way.
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CAUTION: snarkiness follows; do not take (too) seriously ...
> If the '17 SR could get to 60 in under 3 seconds Zero would shouting it to the world
Yeah, I tend to agree. Though they probably would not advertise that the test pilot was a 97 pound jockey. (And yes, I know I'm mixing metaphors)
> by the time I counted to 3
Can't get more accurate than that. At Fermilab we time microseconds the same way ;)
As someone wrote, there should be an app for that. Um, um, it shouldn't be too hard to add that timing capability to the Zero app. If the company would open-source, I'm betting several people on this board could do the coding.
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CAUTION: snarkiness follows; do not take (too) seriously ...
> by the time I counted to 3
Can't get more accurate than that. At Fermilab we time microseconds the same way ;)
OK, I did admit that my method is crude, but when I time myself counting against a stopwatch I am dead on almost every time. The fastest YouTube video I have seen is 3.8 seconds. I know that YouTube is not the most accurate instrument in the world but…
Here is one with several attempts, nothing under four seconds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iBjLPGf1s
2017 SR under three seconds? I don't think so.
Edit: The above YouTube video is in kph so the 0 to 60 mph time might be 1/10 quicker.
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Yes there are apps to measure acceleration.
I have tried two of them with my Zero FXS 2016 ZF6.5, that is given for 3.8s for 0-100 km/h.
Measure acceleration (by Sergey Vorobyev) can be used freely, but it gave me bad results. I have lost my time trying to make it work, without success.
PerfExpert is not free, but has worked well in my case.
http://www.perfexpert-app.com/ (http://www.perfexpert-app.com/)
I have made 3 attemps, and I have got 5.43s, 5.48s and 5.36s for the 0-100 km/h: that is nicely reproductible.
But sadly, it is far from the 3.8s announced by Zero...
You can see one of these recordings here. Just look at the first 8 seconds, because after I had to brake down:
https://network.perfexpert-app.com/results/N8DOwQn6BS (https://network.perfexpert-app.com/results/N8DOwQn6BS)
Update: Oops: I realize today that the link above is not the good one. Here is a better run with 5.14s for the 0-100 km/h and 137 km/h max in 10.2s:
https://network.perfexpert-app.com/results/iWvWRmUF5z
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My guess is that Zero's 3.8 second 0-60 acceleration claim comes from a dyno run on their in-house dyno and not from actual field test results.
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i tested my time filming the display with an actioncam at 60 fps. Then, with the cutting software cut the snippet 0-100 out timed to the frame. Its still not extremely accurate, because the display of the zero isn't refreshing quick enough and the speedo may be not 100% accurate too. I'll do the same technique with a 17' Model when i get the time to. Then i can compare it perfectly.
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But i also think 2.7 is not realistic
A stock DSR probably won't do 2.7s 0-60mph. I think my 16' S can get close to 3s (it's not stock) and it should break 2.7s after I change the gearing ratio. I have been on a DSR that definitely does 2.7s easily.
Also, the SR and DSR are very similar. The SR is a hair faster due to the aerodynamics and the tires have a tad more grip but the DSR wheelies easier cause of the bigger wheels.
So how did you manage it?