ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: adaviel on October 15, 2017, 09:42:44 PM
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I just bought a Zero FXS to replace my Suzuki DR200 (dual sport) which was stolen. The Zero is actually a bit lighter (with one battery) and looks like it's going to be fun - I've only had it one day.
I rode the DR200 off-road occasionally, and took it aboard my sailboat. I plan on the same with the Zero.
I realize there are lots of situations where I use the clutch - not just for changing gear. E.g. I have a ramp to get my bike onto a truck or onto my boat, walking alongside. I use the clutch to hold the back wheel when backing down a ramp with the engine off. Or holding the bike on a 25% grade offroad with both feet on the rocks. Or parking on a 25% grade. The Zero looks like it would just run downhill as soon as I took my hand off the throttle.
How do other EV riders handle this ?
I'm having crazy ideas about retrofitting a left-hand brake lever like a bicycle, or spragging the rear wheel with a rod through the spokes.
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The bike has more rolling resistance than an ICE in neutral. Not enough to make pushing it hard but enough to keep it under control when going down a ramp.
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I use a hitch carrier for my DS (much heavier) it has a ramp you can move from side to side so I just stay on the right side of the bike and use the throttle and front brake no problem.
Have a closely sized ratchet strap handy.
As for parking I use a nice big bicycle cable lock through the sprocket and frame.
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The bike has more rolling resistance than an ICE in neutral. Not enough to make pushing it hard but enough to keep it under control when going down a ramp.
Haven't tried the boat yet (a serious screw-up could put the bike in the water) but tried on my truck. Definitely not enough rolling resistance to make much difference on a 30 degree slope, and the handbook says not to try and use the motor to hold the bike on a slope. I'm still learning. I had it down to a fine art powering my DR200 up the ramp, but the tire on the Zero kept slipping.
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Add a left hand rear brake, many have, Zero should.
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The front brake is stronger and a left brake lever would only use the rear. You said the tire was slipping, what kind of ramp is it? Is it just a board? Take it for a walk around the yard off the bike with you left hand on the center of the handle bar, that helps keep the tire straight while your moving from throttle to brake.
A little practice on the throttle and maybe a custom app setting of 100% regen braking and throttle and I think you'll get the hang of it.
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Add a left hand rear brake, many have, Zero should.
Any details ? Zero say that they can't because of "regulatory guidelines" (US/California probably). They offer a >$600 "parking brake" which does 100% immobilization - not what I'm looking for, and seems to be right-hand operation. (page 3-20 of the 2017 owners manual)
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The front brake is stronger and a left brake lever would only use the rear. You said the tire was slipping, what kind of ramp is it? Is it just a board?
I have two ramps. One is a C-section piece of steel. That's shown in my write-up at https://www.instructables.com/id/Getting-a-motorcycle-aboard-a-sailboat/ (https://www.instructables.com/id/Getting-a-motorcycle-aboard-a-sailboat/). Later I got a piece of aluminium cable tray (which won't rust and stain the boat deck), a bit shorter and steeper than the steel, with cross-members every couple of inches like the one on the left at http://s7d3.scene7.com/is/image/ThomasBetts/prod_tnb-cable-tray02?wid=600&hei=275 (http://s7d3.scene7.com/is/image/ThomasBetts/prod_tnb-cable-tray02?wid=600&hei=275)
On my truck, there's less risk, but no chance to turn the bike around. On my boat, I could turn it around and come down the ramp forwards, throwing the weight to the front wheel where the brake is. But my experience and confidence is in backing it down, and besides, whichever way you do it, having two braked wheels offers more control.
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Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.
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Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
Silverwing is a SCOOTER and they commonly have the rear brake there.
The Zero lineup are MOTORCYCLES and they never have a rear brake there.
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Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
Silverwing is a SCOOTER and they commonly have the rear brake there.
The Zero lineup are MOTORCYCLES and they never have a rear brake there.
Nothing regulatory about it. Silverwing is legally a motorcycle, same regs.
My Silverwing was bigger, faster, heavier, and noisier than my Zero, clearly no less a motorcycle. (And, no need to shout.)[emoji12]
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
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Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
Silverwing is a SCOOTER and they commonly have the rear brake there.
The Zero lineup are MOTORCYCLES and they never have a rear brake there.
Nothing regulatory about it. Silverwing is legally a motorcycle, same regs.
My Silverwing was bigger, faster, heavier, and noisier than my Zero, clearly no less a motorcycle. (And, no need to shout.)[emoji12]
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
See also:
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eelectricmotorcycleforum%2Ecom%2Fboards%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D7454%2E0&share_tid=7454&share_fid=32392&share_type=t
Re: left hand rear brake for the Redshift
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I like not having an extra thing to worry about when loading (clutch), not having to worry about stalling makes getting up a ramp easier for me. I just cover the front brake lever and use it if I need to but honestly, I find I don't need it much. I just use the throttle to roll the bike up the ramp as I walk up my hitch steps (revarc brand).
Hitch Steps:
http://www.discountramps.com/revarc-smart-steps/p/REVARCSMART/ (http://www.discountramps.com/revarc-smart-steps/p/REVARCSMART/)
As for parking:
https://www.ebay.com/i/252909680098?chn=ps&dispItem=1 (https://www.ebay.com/i/252909680098?chn=ps&dispItem=1)
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I use the revarc to load into my cargo van. I have a drop hitch mounted 90deg turned sideways so the steps are offset to get the ramp in a better place to clear the door with handlebars. Easy to run it up with careful throttle control, not hard to roll it down, not sure if I use my LHRB for that, maybe, it's there if I need it.
I think there is more to Zero's reluctance to add a left hand brake than just the "homologation" line that they gave me when I suggested it. It creates complexity because it isn't simple to combine lever and pedal (but I did*), and so it would become a build option and buyers wouldn't know what to choose if it was one or the other and it would add cost to have both, especially if hydraulic. It will be interesting to see what Alta does.
* http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5328.msg50287#msg50287
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I use the revarc to load into my cargo van. I have a drop hitch mounted 90deg turned sideways so the steps are offset to get the ramp in a better place to clear the door with handlebars. Easy to run it up with careful throttle control, not hard to roll it down, not sure if I use my LHRB for that, maybe, it's there if I need it.
I think there is more to Zero's reluctance to add a left hand brake than just the "homologation" line that they gave me when I suggested it. It creates complexity because it isn't simple to combine lever and pedal (but I did*), and so it would become a build option and buyers wouldn't know what to choose if it was one or the other and it would add cost to have both, especially if hydraulic. It will be interesting to see what Alta does.
* http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5328.msg50287#msg50287
I would just as soon lose the pedal.
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
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I use the revarc to load into my cargo van. I have a drop hitch mounted 90deg turned sideways so the steps are offset to get the ramp in a better place to clear the door with handlebars. Easy to run it up with careful throttle control, not hard to roll it down, not sure if I use my LHRB for that, maybe, it's there if I need it.
I think there is more to Zero's reluctance to add a left hand brake than just the "homologation" line that they gave me when I suggested it. It creates complexity because it isn't simple to combine lever and pedal (but I did*), and so it would become a build option and buyers wouldn't know what to choose if it was one or the other and it would add cost to have both, especially if hydraulic. It will be interesting to see what Alta does.
* http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5328.msg50287#msg50287
I would just as soon lose the pedal.
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
Did someone mention pedals? ??? https://electricmotorcycles.news/gulas-pi1-pedaling-on-a-motorcycle/
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> I would just as soon lose the pedal.
That's what I did. This kit:
https://www.tacticalmindz.com/products/dual-fitting-rear-hand-brake-kit
Did you run it through the ABS or bypass it?
Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
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I just bought a Zero FXS to replace my Suzuki DR200 (dual sport) which was stolen. The Zero is actually a bit lighter (with one battery) and looks like it's going to be fun - I've only had it one day.
I rode the DR200 off-road occasionally, and took it aboard my sailboat. I plan on the same with the Zero.
I realize there are lots of situations where I use the clutch - not just for changing gear. E.g. I have a ramp to get my bike onto a truck or onto my boat, walking alongside. I use the clutch to hold the back wheel when backing down a ramp with the engine off. Or holding the bike on a 25% grade offroad with both feet on the rocks. Or parking on a 25% grade. The Zero looks like it would just run downhill as soon as I took my hand off the throttle.
How do other EV riders handle this ?
I'm having crazy ideas about retrofitting a left-hand brake lever like a bicycle, or spragging the rear wheel with a rod through the spokes.
Is there some reason why you cannot turn on the key and give just a little throttle as you back down the ramp? I have noticed these Zero bikes can go very, very slow. While I have heard that you should not use throttle to hold the bike on a hill, I doubt the few feet down a ramp would damage the motor.
In a couple of weeks, I plan on taking my DS 6.5 on the back of my RV to southern AZ (near Tombstone) . But my RV is now 100 miles away (in Auburn, CA) from here and I have not yet tried to load on the DS and take it down. I will try that next week. But I expected the fact that there is no clutch would make it even easier.
I guess I will find out next week when I drive the RV back here to Reno.
The carrier I use is this ABHD (http://www.discountramps.com/add-a-bike-hauler/p/Add-A-Bike-Single/). I have used it before with my 2002 DR200SE. No straps needed. That's what I like about this above ramp. And you can take the bike down forward or reverse.
BTW, my tongue weight limit on my RV is 350 lbs. When I add the DS weight to the bike carrier, it is exactly 350 LBS!
DS 6.5 weight=317 lbs
ABHD weight = 25 lbs
racks for saddle bags, trunk, windscreen other small stuff=8 lbs
total=350 lbs.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Is there some reason why you cannot turn on the key and give just a little throttle as you back down the ramp? I have noticed these Zero bikes can go very, very slow. While I have heard that you should not use throttle to hold the bike on a hill, I doubt the few feet down a ramp would damage the motor.
I once trailered my bike up to the Santa Cruz area from where I live in San Diego county, and I didn't use that technique. I just backed down slowly, feathering the front brake lever. These bikes are so light that backing down is very easy to control. Going up the ramp, I found it very valuable to use the ultra-low-speed capability of the motor. A simple walk up the ramp just tickling the throttle made loading as easy as unloading. Between the light weight and the tractability, this bike is truly a pleasure to load and unload.
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I once trailered my bike up to the Santa Cruz area from where I live in San Diego county, and I didn't use that technique. I just backed down slowly, feathering the front brake lever. These bikes are so light that backing down is very easy to control. Going up the ramp, I found it very valuable to use the ultra-low-speed capability of the motor. A simple walk up the ramp just tickling the throttle made loading as easy as unloading. Between the light weight and the tractability, this bike is truly a pleasure to load and unload.
Glad to hear it. i will see for myself next week.
What bike was it that you were loading and unloading and how high up the ramp did you have to go from the ground?
My RV hitch is a bit on the high side.
-Don- Reno, NV
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> > > I would just as soon lose the pedal.
> > That's what I did. This kit:
> >
> > https://www.tacticalmindz.com/products/dual-fitting-rear-hand-brake-kit
> Did you run it through the ABS or bypass it?
No ABS on my 2014 SR : - )
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What bike was it that you were loading and unloading and how high up the ramp did you have to go from the ground?
It's a 2014 SR, so pretty much the heaviest Zero. At the time, I had a windshield, rack and trunk on it, though I didn't have the SCv2 yet.
It was a standard U-Haul trailer, dunno the actual lip height. My bro had a pretty good handful with his big Harley wannabe, though. My bike was ridiculously easier to manage.
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Electrics have so much better throttle control it's not even funny.
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Electrics have so much better throttle control it's not even funny.
They HAVE THE POTENTIAL to have so much better throttle control.
They're not quite there yet. When we start getting custom OEM hardware designed for bikes, it will probably improve.
You never realize what you're missing until you're used to something better. Even through I was daily driving literbikes and vtwin sportbikes, whenever I stepped off my CR500 supermoto and went on another 4stroke bike, no matter how sporty, the throttle felt laggy in comparison. I was used to fast throttle response, but the fastER one still stood out dramatically.
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Add a left hand rear brake, many have, Zero should.
Just did that; see my reply to http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7066.msg58399 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7066.msg58399)
Works nicely on my ramp, at least the one I use for my truck.
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Electrics have so much better throttle control it's not even funny.
They HAVE THE POTENTIAL to have so much better throttle control.
They're not quite there yet. When we start getting custom OEM hardware designed for bikes, it will probably improve.
You never realize what you're missing until you're used to something better. Even through I was daily driving literbikes and vtwin sportbikes, whenever I stepped off my CR500 supermoto and went on another 4stroke bike, no matter how sporty, the throttle felt laggy in comparison. I was used to fast throttle response, but the fastER one still stood out dramatically.
OK, fine. My Zero and my Vectrix have so much better than my Hondas or Kawasaki ever did. I've never experienced what MRDude_1 is talking about.
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A 500 cc 2 stroke is like crack for some of us 8)