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[guity]

Bret's suggestion finally sank in, and I made a spreadsheet out of the GPR-S Cycle Analyst data so it can be perused more efficiently.

[picasso]

the lose chain part is normal, I had to adj. my zero a few times since new.

no bms at all is kind of a bummer, at least cell over voltage would be nice.

Electric motorsport has me tempted with its new line of scooters. The price didnt seem that bad.

[guity]

Picasso, you know a lot about these electric bikes.  You don't have time to build one right now.  You were interested in the Brammo for a while (which tells me that $12,000 isn't impossible for you, ((I think you actually mentioned you had some money burning a hole in your pocket))).  So what about this -- you think up the bike you want and the components you would want it to have on it, and ask EM how much they would charge to put everything together for you?

[guity]

Had a tough day with the bike, almost had to have it towed, but learned a good tip that made the trouble worth while:  When I was at the Hollywood Electrics shop, when I turned on the bike to drive it into the shop, and later when I turned on the bike to leave, the contactor wouldn't click on (as has happened before), and the bike wouldn't move.  The first time Harlan just pushed the bike into the shop from behind.  When I was leaving, the problem disappeared after a few seconds of jiggling the bike and the throttle and the ingnition. 

But about 20 miles later I stopped at a store for a coke, and when I tried to start the bike up it was dead again.  Spent about an hour trying everything from jiggling to turning off and on to rocking the bike and even removing the right side cover and finger-pushing wires to make sure they were securely contacting.  The bike wouldn't budge, even though the cycle analyst was showing as much as 76.9 volts (I had brought the big Zivan with me and was charging while at the Hollywood shop.)

In desperation I called Martin, who pretty much knew what some of the problem was but wasn't familiar enough with my bike system to know of an easy way to bypass it.  However, Martin called Todd Kallin, who did know, and relayed the information:  after removing the LEFT side cover, (which has one screw and a couple of snap-on fasteners holding it on) and looking underneath the controller, deep inside near the mud splash guard (on the inside of the splash guard of course) is the contactor.  The contactor has a round silver button-like protrusion on the side facing you as you look in, which can be manually pushed to tell the bike it's time to ride.  When you push it, you hear the sweet click that means everything is ready to go. 

Remember this one if you have a GPR-S, because it could save you a lot of trouble!  It might not work if you don't have a 2009 model, however.  But regardless, if nothing else is working, you might want to look under that left side cover...

[guity]

New revelations (revelations for me, anyway).  One is that the bike contactor  not "clicking" problem didn't strat occurring until after the accident, so the accident's impact might have caused a loose connection somewhere in the bike.

Another revelation is that I was always told that I was going to get a Zivan charger, and the Elcon PFC1500 I got was, I believe obtained from zivanusa, but now I believe it is not actually a Zivan-made charger.  

And another related revelation is that the reason I did not get the NG1 was not because of any kind of mistake by EM, but simply because the NG1's are backordered for months.  If EM had waited for an NG1, I still wouldn't even have my bike by now.

Not a revelation but a thanks to Todd Kallin and EM, because giving me the tip on the contactor bailed me out 3 or 4 times during a trip to Santa Monica this afternoon.  Instead of being helplessly stranded I was on my way in an extra minute.

[guity]

Tonight I will leave the big Elcon PFC 1500 charging the whole night.  When I do this, then the next morning when I take the charger off and turn on the bike, cycle analyst always show 87 (or at most 89) volts.  These values are below the 90 that my 7234 Alltrax controller can handle.

Last night, I took the Elcon off the bike probably within 10 minutes of when the Elcon's light LED display light went green.  When I do that, that voltage level is always higher.  Last night the voltage level upon turning the bike on was 91.x volts.  I am wondering if that surplus voltage might have been responsible for causing problems with the controller making the contactor "click" today.  Tomorrow will supply more evidence one way or another.

Another possibility is that the accident jarred something loose, which is causing the contactor "click" problem.  However, today, after about an hour of turning the bike on and off, of jiggling and rocking the bike, and finger-pushing wires under the right side cover to ake sure they were firmly seated, the only thing that finally made the bike work was to put it back on the Elcon charger for a half hour.  Why would putting the charger on firm up a loose wire?

On the other hand, all my "click" problem occurred after miles if riding, when voltage levels ranged from 74 to 77.  What effect could last night's over-voltage have had on the bike today when voltage levels were quite reasonable?

[guity]

After taking the charger off this morning and powering up the bike, cycle analyst showed 85 volts which quickly dissipated to the 70's upon commencement of the ride.  The ride went 13.5 miles, and after parking for a couple of hours, again the bike started up without a problem (though the wait for the click did seem to be extended by a few beats).  Rode about 1/3 mile, parked bike again for about an hour, started up again without a problem (even more beats of delay before bike started up).  Rode the bike another 4 or 5 miles to Trader Joe's, and at this point the only thing that seemed strange was that after all those miles, and especally considering that my voltage levels have scarcely seen 77v or more recently, the voltage level was hovering at 77v on the way to Trader Joe's and at like 76.9v upon arrival.  Upon leaving Trader Joe's some guy started asking me about my bike and wanted to watch me take off with it, which of course meant that the bike was not going to start easily.  Waiting extra beats didn't seem to have any benefit, so eventually I manually punched the contactor button.  

Upon arrival home, turned off the bike and turned  it on again.  Bike was ready to go forward.  A few minutes later, I tried turned the bike off and then on again -- this time bike wouldn't start.  Didn't really want to go anywhere so I just put the charger on at that point.

I don't know.  So far there has never been a problem with the bike starting fresh off the charger.  I do get the feeling that the big PFC 1500 has some kind of invisible stage thing going on even though it only really seems to display either a green light or a red one.  Depending on how soon I remove the charger after the charger's light turns green, the higher the voltage shown on the cycle analyst.  Since I have been doing that a lot lately, I think I have been turning the bike on a lot lately when the voltage level is 90 or above, more than the high voltage cutoff, I think.

But why is it that problems don't seem to show up untill later in the ride when lots of volts have been used?  

I think my next step is to stop using the big charger for a while and go back to using the smaller slower temporary EM charger.  See if that has any effect on problem frequency...

Epilogue weirdness:  Went to garage to remove PFC 1500 charger and hook up small EM charger in its place.  It was too late for today, because PFC 1500 light was green and temporary charger light also showed green when it was hooked up.  Started up bike, and cycle analyst showed 91.2 volts.  Thought I heard the click, so just for giggles I gave a little twist to the throttle.  The bike lurched.  It was ready to go with 91.2 volts showing on the cycle analyst display.  I think I need to double check the specs on the 7234 Alltrax controller -- maybe 90 volts is not the most it can handle...  

Hmm... 90 volts is indeed the maximum for a 72 volt controller, according to the Alltrax website.  I wonder if I have partially fried the 7234 controller in my bike with my >90 volt charges?

[guity]

Hi,

I bought an electric motorcycle with an Alltrax 7234 controller in it, and 23 Thundersky batteries which can potentially be charged up to 4.2 volts per cell (23 times 4.2 = 96.6 volts).  I was provided with a charger called a PFC 1500 which despite information in its manual, only seems to display a green light and a red light.  Sometimes I disconnect the PFC 1500 charger immediately after I see a green light.  

However, when I do this, the voltage level shown on my cycle analyst for the motorcycle is often >90 volts (up to 92 is about the highest I have seen).  But my understanding is that the max voltage the 7234 can handle is 90 volts.

My question is, do these >90 volt over charges damage the 7234 controller?  One reason I ask is that often in the last few days the controller, when the bike has been powered on, has not activated the contactor to allow the bike to start running.  I have had to manually do so.  So far this appears to be a spurious event -- hard to say when it will or won't happen.  The irregularity of the problem makes me wonder if the 7234 might have been damaged somewhat...

Thanks for any info you would be willing to provide on this issue.

guity

***********************
response on October  19:

Guity,

The controller can handle voltages to about 95v before you start to damage the controller, but anything over 90V will not allow the PWM output of the controller to turn on. The controller will power up and flash an overvoltage alarm, but it won't go anywhere.


Regards,

Alltrax

[picasso]

The Alltrax has zero to do with the contactor. Sounds like you have a bad contactor. Time to get a Kilovac. Can you take a pic of your contactor?

[guity]

Picasso, hope this helps.  The picture doesn't show any printed characters on the side of the contactor... I'm throwing in a picture of the triangular side panel.  There is really only one screw holding it on so it is not hard to open up.  The upper two points of the triangle are rubber/plastic snap-on connectors...Looks like I have to split these pics up to stay within the attachmeent limits...

[guity]

Contactor first pic

[guity]

Contactor 2nd pic..

[guity]

Using the charge that completed last night, drove to a couple of stores today (maybe 5 miles away).  Upon leaving the first store, the bike missed a couple of long beats but eventually reached the "click" stage.  At the second store the bike didn't seem to miss any beats at all.  A quick test after bringing the bike into the garage and turning it off, then on again, renedered no "click" problem.  Tonight the charge will be completed with the slower, temporary charger.

[guity]

Guity,

The controller can handle voltages to about 95v before you start to damage the controller, but anything over 90V will not allow the PWM output of the controller to turn on. The controller will power up and flash an overvoltage alarm, but it won't go anywhere.


Regards,

Alltrax

[guity]

Bike was started three times today, at home, at work, at store.  Started all three times but third time at store took some extra beats.

Hooked up the slower temporary charger again for tonight.

Stats in attached file