ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: DesignerDan on November 20, 2013, 04:34:53 AM
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My Zero S is currently at 9,500 miles and the rear tire was passed the point of needing to be changed so I swapped the rear tire last night with a Bridgestone Battlax 130/70 17 inch. The Bridgestone tire has a larger crown radius than the stock Road winner so the tire contacts more of the road.
I'm noticing a decrease in range with this new tire; probably due to increase in rolling resistance. (the bridgestone is also a tad heavier)
I've also noticed a pretty significant increase in traction. I practiced flooring it on wet pavement and was shocked (pun intended) that it didn't slip once! The Road winner would slip pretty consistently on wet pavement if you gave it too much gas... I mean... electrons.
If I get good life out of this tire I will be pleased with it even though it's not as efficient.
So when selecting a tire you're basically choosing between efficiency or traction. Choose wisely.
Has anyone else changed the tires on their 2013 Zeros?
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My rear Road Whiner looks to be good for another 1000 miles, but I plan to change it as soon as the roads turn wet - if they ever do. I have a new Michelin Pilot ACTIV in my tire storage closet ready to go. But looking at this tire right now, it sure looks like French 130mm is larger than Japanese 130mm and the tire's profile seems a lot more rounded than the Whiner was originally. ??? Hopefully, that will make the bike more stable when cornering.
Dan, I have never removed my Zero's rear wheel before. Do you have any tips for removal and re-installation? What is the axle nut torque and were there any issues refitting the belt on to the rear sprocket? Do you have to loosen the belt tension before removing the wheel?
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Dan, I have never removed my Zero's rear wheel before. Do you have any tips for removal and re-installation? What is the axle nut torque and were there any issues refitting the belt on to the rear sprocket? Do you have to loosen the belt tension before removing the wheel?
First, what I do is loosen the rear axle nut (recommended torque for reinstallation is 70 ft-lbs) then I jack the bike up using a flat center jack.
I release the belt tension before I pull the axle out because I figured it would be nearly impossible to stretch the belt enough to get the axle back into the rear wheel when putting it back on.
Putting the belt back on is easy just make sure when you're retensioning it that both of the black aluminum axle holders are on the same notch. (or same distance between notches) If they arn't the belt will rub the rear sprocket wall and make unpleasant noises.
Once it's retensioned I lower the bike back on the floor and then tighten the rear axle nut.
You might have to play around with the tension to get it to not make harmonic noises. Sometimes even when it's at exactly the recommended tension it will vibrate at certain RPMs and the noise is irritating but I don't think it's detrimental.
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Thanks Dan. That is helpful. :)
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That would be unfortunate if I have to directly trade traction vs efficiency/range via contact patch size. Right now, I'm on the OEM tires for the DS, and hoping to get some more street traction and range. I may get enough out of a 90/10 rain tire, I suppose.
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Dan has a 2013, Richard has a 2012, the process can follow the steps outlined by dan, but loosening / tensioning the belt on the 12's is harder because you have to loosen the motor rather than move the axle.
On a 2012, Before loosening the belt, you might want to try this:
Put the wheel on with the belt between the tire and the sprocket, with the axle through the drive side of the wheel, but not on the brake side, so that you can twist the wheel a bit. Then carefully slide / roll the belt onto the sprocet. Having the brake side of the wheel not fixed should give you just enough slack to get the belt on. Then crank on the wheel to line the axle up with the other side of the swing-arm and whack the axle into position.
If that doesn't work, loosen the motor to get the belt on, get the axle all tight then tighten the belt back up, torque the motor bolts to 20ft lbs once the belt is tightened.
-ryan
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Thanks Ryan. :)
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As I was slogging through the December issue of Motorcycle Consumer News, I came across a review of the new Suzuki GW250 twin. I found a comment in the article (that I agree with) interesting. The article says: “ Rolling stock includes 17†wheels front and rear that mount barely adequate IRC Road Winner rubber (but both its Honda and Kawasaki competition use the same)". I guess the manufacturers are using these tires on their cheap bikes because they are cheap. Considering what Zero charges for their bikes, I really think their models deserve a better tire. They are available and no doubt not at too much of a premium over the IRC tires.
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A lot of non-powertrain parts on our bikes are very cheap. Chain, suspension, brakes, levers, etc. It was either that or price the bike completely out of the market and it's already borderline for most people to justify. Not quite Model S yet, more Tesla Roadster. That's the compromise we've all made! That being said, it's a lot easier to upgrade what's cheap on our bikes in the aftermarket than it would be to upgrade the powertrain which I think is very solid. Not to mention many will find the chassis perfectly acceptable.
I bought the Hollywood Electrics S wheel kit and will be putting Diablo Rossos on them as recommended by Harlan, mileage be damned. (It's not a 1:1 trade-off between traction and range, some tires will be good at both, but there is definitely a relationship. On the Model S we were able to find tires that were all around better by testing many options. Hard to know as a consumer though.) Then I'll have Bridgestone 403/404 on the spoke wheels for off-road work. Just waiting on the wheels and brake disc from Zero now!
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DesignerDan,
Could you give more accurate numbers on the decrease in range from switching tires?
I need to order new tires for Turbo and I have BT-45's on my ninja 250 since I ride year round in all weather conditions. Wanted to make sure I am not nerfing my range too much by switching to BT-45's on Turbo as well.
Also do we have to get 110/70 || 130/70, could we get 110/90 || 130/90 without worrying about if the tire will fit? I have 90 aspect tires on my ninja 250 (100/90-16 and 130/90-16) and figured I am use to them so ...
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I have Pilot Road 3s on my 2014 SR. Yes the back tire is a 150 instead of a 140 but not seeing any issues having a wider tire. Have ran the PR3s on other bikes and really like them.
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DesignerDan,
Could you give more accurate numbers on the decrease in range from switching tires?
My energy consumption was 101 watt hours/ mile for a few consecutive months prior to changing tires. Soon after changing the rear and then the front to Bridgestone Battlax tires my efficiency lowered to 105 watt hours/ mile. I didn't intentionally change my riding style or normal routes but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it was the tires. It could have been other factors that coincidentally took place after changing the tires.
I love the Bridgestone tires and will buy them again even if they were the cause of the minor penalty in efficiency.
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Michelin recomends Pilot Street Radials for 2012/13 S and they come in correct sizes. I have done 5000 miles on them now during the winter with no problems and tyres are only about 30 % worn. I cannot notice any difference in range but grip is a lot better in wet.
In the end tyres are much matter riding environment and of personal reference, but these give me plenty of confidence. I'll be fitting the IRCs back in couple of weeks to wear them out during summer, so more comparison to come later.
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I recommend Avon Road Riders.
I got 14k miles on my 2012 ZF6 with them.
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I recommend Avon Road Riders.
I got 14k miles on my 2012 ZF6 with them.
I'll second the Avons. Purchased from my ZF9 on EC's say-so. Transformed the ride and handling.
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Bridgestone Battlax came stock on my Gixxer 1000 and I got 6500 miles from the rear. They were good tires though. I replaced them with Pilot Power 3s which were even better I thought although I never raced with either set. The Michelins are composite tires and less susceptible to squaring off.
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I recommend Avon Road Riders.
I got 14k miles on my 2012 ZF6 with them.
I'll second the Avons. Purchased from my ZF9 on EC's say-so. Transformed the ride and handling.
What is the wet weather performance like? That is where the road whiners really fall down (literally.)
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My experience with the std. tires is not bad (this includes some "hard cornering driving" with no issues at all).
They are not Michelin quality (for example) - I would agree with that, but in dry conditions they perform very well.
I have not got a lot of experience in wet condition with them though ???
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Tires on any vehicle are always going to be a compromise between efficiency and traction. A high-traction (sticky) compound is always going to have higher rolling resistance than a compound designed for high efficiency. You just need to decide where on the curve you want to play.
I hear a lot of complaints about the OEM tires, and I agree, they're pretty mediocre in terms of traction offered. I haven't had any sideways sliding yet (knock on wood), but then again I no longer ride the way I rode 30 years ago. I HAVE chirped the rear tire on my 2014 SR when "demonstrating" the bike's launching ability.
But I'm assuming Zero selected them for their relatively low cost and high efficiency, not their ultimate gripping ability. If you want a different compromise in your tires, you can always change them.
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I have a zero s 2013
i put in front 110/70/17 pirelli diablo rosso II
and in rear 140/60/17 pirelli diablo rosso II
it is a very good compromise event on wet street.
in addition it is a good look.
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I am running the Pilot Road 3's on my SR. The back is a 150 (smallest they make) instead of a 140 but don't see any issues with it.
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I recommend Avon Road Riders.
I got 14k miles on my 2012 ZF6 with them.
I put Road Riders on my '12 DS when it was my main commuting vehicle, and found they were MUCH better than the stock tires for road/highway use.
Now that I have my SR for my daily highway adventures, I'm seeking suggestions for dirt or enduro-style tires that will fit a '12DS... wish I hadn't tossed the originals! :o
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I am running the Pilot Road 3's on my SR. The back is a 150 (smallest they make) instead of a 140 but don't see any issues with it.
The profile of the 150 might be strange no? The stock S 2013 130R/110F tires are pinched in too narrow wheels at 120R/100F mm wide. The result is a more acute profile which I am not comfortable riding with. I checked all my other bike wheels and the installed width is very close to the spec. the 2014 has a 140 rear and if it is in the same wheel as the 2013, it should be worse.
I am looking at wheels conversion, ideally to 160R/120F (or 150/110 that stay 150/110). The swing arm has enough room but there is very little margin to offset the engine pulley. I would not mind swapping the whole front end, forks and brake included.
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I had Metzler Tourance tires (85-15, road vs off-road tire) installed on my 2014 DS, when purchased in April/May. I researched the tires for my type of riding (slower than freeway 85% of the time, possibly light moist forest paved roads, some off-road on dirt trails) and selected the same tire that the BMW GS has/had as standard on their bikes, along with some DS Ducati and similar bikes.
I'm happy with it, although it does not grip the dirt roads very well, and I average 130-140 miles for the 11.4KW and power-tank option (extrapolation, since I rarely discharge more than 80% of battery, and nearing the end-point of available battery power may reduce mileage). Most driving is closer to 35 mph and very hilly, and the tire may slip on uneven pavement, but always grabs traction, lending a feeling of trust in the tire. But, my driving is not aggressive and I am certainly not pushing it.
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What is the safest (widest?) Tire combo for the 2014S? What exact sizes for front and back?
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What is the safest (widest?) Tire combo for the 2014S? What exact sizes for front and back?
I would stick with the standard sizes of 110/70-17 front and 140/70-17 rear. There are getting to be lots of choices for brands and tire designs in these sizes now that the new 300-400cc motorcycle models are all using these size tires. :)
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What is the safest (widest?) Tire combo for the 2014S? What exact sizes for front and back?
I went with Pilot Road 4's
120/60 front and 160/60 rear.
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Just got some Pirelli Angel GT's and absolutely love them! They are 120/70 and 150/70 which makes the fit a bit tighter, but no rubbing that I have seen and cornering is significantly more fun now!
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Yes, both the Michelin PR3/PR4 or the Pirelli Angel GT have a more flat center section, and together with the slightly larger 150mm size will help stabilize the quick Zero S/SR frame geometry. The Rosso II is more of a pointy profile (quicker turn-in and less stable in a straight line).
Not sure about pre-2014 rim widths, but I doubt zero has blindly increased the tire width without making the corresponding appropriate increases in rim width. The 150 PR3 does not seem pinched on my 2014 S (but I wouldn't go wider...). Does anyone know for sure if 2013 rims are the same as 2014 rims?
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9,700 miles on the OEM's so I stopped at a local motorcycle shop. I showed them my wear patterns (pretty much squared off the rear tire from commuting and mellow cornering) kindly they kept from smirking at textbook chicken strips and they agreed the Pirelli Sport Demons would be a good replacement in the same size as originals - Zero seems to have made a credible selection for the newer models. i think the Angel GT and Diablo are a bit more tire than I would ever use.
Of course the bearings too will be replaced, so until those come in I left the Zero as the shop's errand cycle, only slightly worried I compromised speedy service.
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These days I use the Pirrelli SuperCorsa V2 SC1 for the street I think the SC2 should be fine.
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Finally replaced my rear after 7700 miles. Found a cheap option @ $71 with the Kenda Cruizer http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043Y9D7K?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043Y9D7K?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00) It rides well for a commuter tire.