ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: SK on April 06, 2013, 10:15:59 AM
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In the Seattle Area and especially south to the southern Oregon Border, there is a dense number of CHAdeMO charging stations. Apparently the plan is to place these stations pretty much every 20-30 or so miles along the I-5 maybe eventually all the way to So Cali. Also it looks like there are enough CHAdeMO stations to get over Rt 2 or I-90 passes either presently or in the near future on the S or DS.
Is there anyone here in the Wash/Oregon area that outfitted the CHAdeMO charger option and that has any comments about the option?
Any other comments about charging options that you have chosen for your 2013 S or DS?
Best Regards,
SK
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For my purposes, the stock 2013 Zero 120V 1300 watt charger works for me. I use my bike for short day trips and around-town utility use and then plug it in overnight. I don't think I would ever use a fast charger, especially as I would be worried that it would be in use when I arrive and the owner of the vehicle might be off watching a movie or eating dinner before returning to unplug his vehicle. For taking long trips, I would stick to my IC motorcycles.
One thing I like about the Zero is that you don't have to carry around a big charging handle, like you do with the Brammo Empulse. I really appreciate being able to pull the cord out of the frame tube and plug into any available 120V outlet and charge up without carrying around any extra stuff. I have enough problems trying to remember to carry my reading glasses with me, much less a 240V or CHAdeMO attachment.
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CHademo is interesting but I just wonder how many Zero owners will really use a Zero for long distance travel?
Even though there are a lot of Chademo stations down I5 how practical is that? If you find an open station and plug in what are going to do for that next hour whilst the electrons flow? And who wants to ride I5? If I were on a motorcycle trip on the west coast I5 would be the last choice.
I am curious on this forum who has ever ridden more than 100 miles / day on an EBike? Yes, I love Off the Grid Terry's story but he took extra ordinary measures. Anyone else here taken a road trip on an ebike?
My biggest day now is 103 miles including my commute, a lunch errand, and an after work errand on a 2012 Zero DS. To make that distance the bike was plugged in when not rolling. I would like to make a 120 mile road trip on my bike and I am planning on getting another charger to charge at the midpoint.
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I live 40-60miles away of the mountainous area and have 3 Charger for my 2012DS.
I sometimes use my Zero to go hiking and when I return the Battery it refilled. Luckily there are some charging points. But for really long distances I have always the problem to find charging points and if I have one it will need an activating card that I don't have, because every 20 to 30 miles the provider change and have there own pin cards :'(
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Thanks all for your replies. Seems to me also that the CHAdeMO option is too pricy for what value one would get from it. I also would only use an EM for commuting and some back road burns per single charge cycle.
It would be cool to take one over the passes to Leavenworth on Rt2 then south to Cle Elum and finally back on I 90 or vice versa, which should be do-able on an 11.4 with CHAdeMO, though I agree with -how often would I do that? The cost of the CHAdeMO adapter alone is a considerable investment which today I think would be better spent as a portion of the price of an IC. I suppose it all depends on what ones use of the CHAdeMO-enabled EM would be. BTW I am between motorcycles since selling mine a few years ago. I have the Zero S bug though, and I am really interested in the Zero S 11.4 and am considering factors before I decide whether to purchase.
So again thanks for the valuable weigh-ins on this topic.
Does anyone have any comment on use or value of the external fast charge accessory?
SK
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I'm in Seattle and doing well enough with the default wall charging - a highway ride round trip of 60-70 miles covers almost every option I have for daily use. ChaDeMo looks intriguing but not on my horizon yet - it would only make sense once I can mount a top case and panniers on the bike (which I'm awaiting word on). That said, my other bike is a 2012 V-Strom 650, which gets nearly 280 miles per tank (almost 300 miles on a low-intensity ride).
There are J1772 chargers around town, though, and the $400 price is not too bad. I would choose that over the bulky fast charger, personally.
A larger metro area like the SF Bay Area would be more challenging than the Seattle area, so I presume that owners there pick up a charger upgrade pretty quickly.
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I have not seen another Zero east of Lake Washington. Where do you guys ride? My 2012 S ZF9 can take me to Snoqualmie Falls and back using Rte 202 (65mph avg) and have two bars left. Now I am looking at other routes and wonder about where to top off or replenish during lunch or dinner if I had either the J1772 or quick-charge.
I've just put down a reservation for the 2013 S ZF11.4 and will talk with the Gen. Manager come Tuesday about accessories. Any insight would be helpful. The idea of the Chademo sounds like it can take me around Mt. Rainier on a ZF11.4 without worry. Is that realistic?
+ mehve
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This site seems to track where the charging stations are, on a Map.
http://carstations.com/ (http://carstations.com/)
There are way more J1772 than CHAdeMO. Plus there are several more sites advertised as having the NEMA 5 (110V) plug. The page also has an app for mobile devices. You can perform a search with a filter. On the filter screen I just choose J1772 and DC Quick Charge (which supposedly is synonymous with CHAdeMO) and Nema 5, and it shows on a map where the stations are. Today there are CHAdeMO stations along I-5, RT2 and I-90 and two in the city of Seattle. I do not see any around Mt. Rainier yet, that would support a loop around or a ride to and from there yet. Supposedly CHAdeMO installations are planned to ramp up in the future, though I have not seen any location specific information other than the specific plans for the major Highways. My guess is that CHAdeMO will start to be seen around town also in the next several years.
I think this plan is probably designed to support EV Automobiles, without any consideration having been given to EMs, due to market size.
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I haven't seen many Chademo stations in Houston even, and there are no charging stations at all where I live. I bought a second charger for my 2012, and if I ever start using charging stations, I'll purchase a third-party J1772 adapter ( about 1/2 the price of Zero's) and make a splitter pigtail to plug them both in.
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I have not seen another Zero east of Lake Washington. Where do you guys ride? My 2012 S ZF9 can take me to Snoqualmie Falls and back using Rte 202 (65mph avg) and have two bars left. Now I am looking at other routes and wonder about where to top off or replenish during lunch or dinner if I had either the J1772 or quick-charge.
I've just put down a reservation for the 2013 S ZF11.4 and will talk with the Gen. Manager come Tuesday about accessories. Any insight would be helpful. The idea of the Chademo sounds like it can take me around Mt. Rainier on a ZF11.4 without worry. Is that realistic?
From North Seattle, I've seen exactly one other Zero rider, a Yellow 2013 S model on Aurora last Saturday (we waved furiously at each other but had to turn in opposite directions). I've made it to Issaquah and back at highway speeds. I wouldn't push it too much further without a recharge. The place in Issaquah is a condo complex but had no working public outlets to charge from.
As for Mount Rainier, that's a 70 mile trip each way, so well out of what I would consider at highway speeds, unless CHAdeMO were an option.
Aside: I grew up near Houston, and can't imagine trying to traverse its vast distances on a Zero without a really good charger!
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BrianTRice, Thanks!
I think we'll do Chademo eventually. Heading up to Lynnwood tomorrow to pick up my 2013!! So excited!
Cheers!
+m
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In the last two years, I've become interested in EVs, but didn't learn about this forum until Mehve introduced me to it last year. Thanks, Mehve!
Brief introduction: Eastside (Seattle-area) couple. Both ride motorcycles, commute to work on two or four wheels, enjoy day and weekend rides around the Cascades, Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Rainier, the LaConner tulip fields (plug: this year's Tulip Ride is April 27th (http://tulipride.org)), the Anacortes Oyster Run (http://oysterrun.org), Whidbey Island, and the Olympic Penninsula.
Became interested in EVs a couple of years ago when Nissan LEAFs started popping up due to aggressive lease deals. We were already looking for more fuel-efficient vehicles and had already gone from two ICE cars to one hybrid. Test rode a LEAF and decided we were ready to go all electric, so we leased it and have been enjoying it ever since.
Also around this time, we had two motorcyles that we often commuted to work with and went on day or weekend road trips with. So we asked ourselves, could we go electric on two wheels, too? In the middle of researching EMs, I entered and won a sweepstakes for a Current Motor (http://www.currentmotor.com) Super Scooter, so we've been able to experience a 100% electric commute.
Back in 2012, it seemed that nothing affordable could completely replace an ICE motorcycle for both daily commuting and the occasional joyride. Anything custom-built to have a highway range over 80 miles cost over $30K (http://brutusmotorcycle.com/brutusV9.html) and anything mass-produced to drive price down had either an even-shorter range, or a speed limit too low for highway use, or couldn't make use of EVSEs beyond L1.
It would be cool to take one over the passes to Leavenworth on Rt2
Enter the 2014 model year Zero S and SR. With J1772 adapter (albeit at a disappointing L1, 9-hour charging speed), CHAdeMO support, and a Power Tank to give its already-impressive highway (55mph) range of 100 miles 25% extra range, this looks like it could at the very least unlock a Leavenworth day trip.
With helpful advice from members of the Seattle EV Association (http://seva101.org), we were able to plan our LEAF journey with enough battery to cross Stevens Pass and reach Leavenworth. With the DCFC chargers along SR-2, courtesy of the West Coast Electric Highway (http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm), and more on the way, EV touring in Washington is already within reach for Teslas. For ~100-mile-range EVs with CHAdeMO support like the LEAF and the Zero S, after the up-front purhase cost, EV tourism is just a matter of time as more EVSE are installed. This does not require additional investment in the vehicle itself. Heck, Oregon (http://industry.traveloregon.com/industry-resources/sustainable-tourism-development/sustainable-transportation-development/electric-vehicles/?doing_wp_cron=1395508607.6378419399261474609375) seems to be ahead of us in this matter.
Seems to me also that the CHAdeMO option is too pricy for what value one would get from it. I also would only use an EM for commuting and some back road burns per single charge cycle.
I agree that the CHAdeMO option is pricy, but if touring with an EV is just as important to you as a commuter bike, then it's the only stock option, unless you stop overnight to recharge every 100 miles. In other words, the value of being able to tour on an EV--even occasionally--makes it worth replacing my ICE motorcycle *and* electric scooter. It doesn't hurt to reclaim some garage space, too.
how often would I do that? The cost of the CHAdeMO adapter alone is a considerable investment which today I think would be better spent as a portion of the price of an IC. I suppose it all depends on what ones use of the CHAdeMO-enabled EM would be.
Fair enough. My intent behind investing in a Zero S with Power Tank + J1772 + CHAdeMO is to replace my ICE motorcycle, not complement it. My garage isn't big enough to store another motorcycle of any ilk. Hopefully, the ICE motorcycle and/or the Current Motor scooter will be traded in as a portion of the price of the Zero.
Does anyone have any comment on use or value of the external fast charge accessory?
I am also curious about this accessory, for those times when CHAdeMO is not available, and L1 just doesn't cut it.
This recent post by Terry (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3512.msg20139#msg20139) has me wondering what this splitter is that he's talking about. Is that part of his custom kit that helped him go cross-country, or is that an off-the-shelf part? I've been searching the forums for more detail, but haven't found it in a couple of minutes of searching.
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Cheers,
Michael
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I live in Marin and am waiting for more Chademo support to be built....helps that Tesla is nearby...
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A couple of things:
1) I regularly take road trips of 100+ miles on my 2012 Zero S, and the reason I can is because my bike is outfitted with 2 Elcon 2500W chargers from Hollywood Electrics. Also, this summer I took a road trip across the US and more than half of our 44 days were 100+ miles. On that trip I only had 1 Elcon 2500W charger, but mostly used the regular plugs at restaurants while eating in the middle of the day.
(http://ridethefuturetour.com/category/locations/ (http://ridethefuturetour.com/category/locations/))
2) We have discovered that many ChaDeMo stations do not work with Zero motorcycles because they are designed for higher voltages. The 2013/14 bikes are around 105-116V and many ChaDeMo stations cut off at 200V. Zero is working on this.
Here is the the other thread where ChaDeMo is discussed in detail: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.0)
I believe some people are working on portable chargers that will use Level 2 EVSE's to their full potential (about 6.6kW), which will get you going in about the same amount of time as a ChaDeMo charger.
One of the great design benefits of Zeros is that the battery has 2 inputs for chargers, so you can easily set it up to charge faster with a second charger!
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I was shown the location of the second charging input port yesterday on my 2014 Zero S. Talk about located "where the sun don't shine". Could they make it any more difficult to access? ::) What was wrong with the location that was used on the 2012 models. ???
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I thought the C-rate was fixed and slow on the stock zeros even if you use the second point of contact?
Can the BMS or Controller be hooked up directly to the J1772 or is a charger required?
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I use the standard outlet in my garage always. Other than photos, I've never seen a quick-charging station. I've also never plugged in anywhere else but home.
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I have two quick chargers for my SR.
As an example (W/O Power Tank) at 17% charge it would take 6:53 on the internal charger alone. Adding one quick charger it would take 3:47. With both quick chargers the time is reduced to 2:36.
Two quick chargers also requires the Y adapter. Because it is such a PIA to get to the main plug I leave the Y adapter plugged in and tuck the two ends behind the battery on the right side. So far no issues with them coming out while riding.
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A couple of things:
1) I regularly take road trips of 100+ miles on my 2012 Zero S, and the reason I can is because my bike is outfitted with 2 Elcon 2500W chargers from Hollywood Electrics. Also, this summer I took a road trip across the US and more than half of our 44 days were 100+ miles. On that trip I only had 1 Elcon 2500W charger, but mostly used the regular plugs at restaurants while eating in the middle of the day.
(http://ridethefuturetour.com/category/locations/ (http://ridethefuturetour.com/category/locations/))
2) We have discovered that many ChaDeMo stations do not work with Zero motorcycles because they are designed for higher voltages. The 2013/14 bikes are around 105-116V and many ChaDeMo stations cut off at 200V. Zero is working on this.
Here is the the other thread where ChaDeMo is discussed in detail: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.0)
I believe some people are working on portable chargers that will use Level 2 EVSE's to their full potential (about 6.6kW), which will get you going in about the same amount of time as a ChaDeMo charger.
One of the great design benefits of Zeros is that the battery has 2 inputs for chargers, so you can easily set it up to charge faster with a second charger!
Headed over to the link but could not suss out the pics of the bike with the aforementioned elcon chargers... and does this require an adapter?
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Losmeister, here is a photo of my setup. I got the chargers from Harlan at Hollywood Electrics and he took care of programming them so they are safe to use (since they connect directly to the battery and don't go through the BMS). These work for 2012 Zero's but for 2013/14 they operate at a higher voltage, so you would need a different setup.
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2) We have discovered that many ChaDeMo stations do not work with Zero motorcycles because they are designed for higher voltages. (...) Zero is working on this.
Here is the the other thread where ChaDeMo is discussed in detail (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3308.0)
Thanks for the reminder! I wanted to follow up with AaronZeroMoto about the results of his meeting with AeroVironment, because they're the ones who supply the DCFCs that I would need to use. AV's spec sheet says they work down to 50V, but it's up to Aaron or a brave local soul with a CHAdeMO plug to confirm.
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The CHAdeMO is awesome for the LEAF - It's amazing to watch the battery in my LEAF fill up in just a few minutes. Until Zero finds a way to make their bikes compatible with the CHAdeMO chargers you can use a set of their 'Quic' chargers to charge fairly quickly. I bought one of them initially, then recently got the 'Y'-adapter that will enable me to plug-in two Quic chargers simultaneously. I don't have the second charger yet, but the dealership where I bought my Zero has one that they let me use when I'm in that area. With the onboard charger working in tandem with two off-board chargers I can reduce the charge time on my 2012 (9 kWh) from 9 hours to 3 hours (from empty). It's not CHAdeMO, but it's not bad.