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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Richard230 on March 09, 2013, 08:32:22 AM
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I just returned from a 75-mile ride with Bill (Sunnysideup). Me on my 2012 Zero S and Bill on his 2013 Empulse R. We traveled from my home in Pacifica, north and east to Sharps Park Road, then south along I-280 at 60 mph, turned off on to Highway 35, picked up Canada Road to Woodside, rode up Woodside Road (Highway 84) to Alice's Restaurant, where we had lunch and we both recharged our batteries for 90 minutes. We then rode north, up Skyline Boulevard, then down Tunitas Creek Road, up Irish Ridge Road to Verdi Road, to Pursima Creek Road, then Higgins Pursima Road to Half Moon Bay, where we headed north back towards Pacifica - but Bill didn't quite make it. When we got to Montara, he decided that he wasn't going to make it the 8 miles to Pacifica, as he only had about 15% battery capacity left (I was showing 4 bars at the time). So we went round and round in Montara looking for someplace to charge up his bike. We first went to the Sheriff's station, but no one was home. Visiting a nearby county park did no good as they had no power at all. Bill tried to get power from a local Chevron station, but they didn't care much for electric motorcycles and told him to get lost. We finally ended up at a Mexican restaurant a block away. They were very accommodating and let Bill charge up at their outbuilding.
I rode Bill's Empulse along Irish Ridge Road and I liked the Empulse's ride and handling. I thought the transmission shifted smoothly, both up and down, and I didn't find the slight "clunk" when taking off from a stop very noticeable. The only thing that I found irritating was the abrupt throttle response in first gear and second gears, between on and off throttle. It reminded me of many IC FI motorcycles. Most likely this was the result of little flywheel effect, a fast power take-up on the throttle and slack in the drive-train. I think this can be worked out with further development. In the meantime, keeping the chain at its tightest recommended slack should minimize the "lurch". Frankly, I am not at all sure why 5th and 6th gears are needed. I doubt I would use either of these gears while keeping to the posted speed limits. I think 4 speeds would work just fine to accommodate the Empulse's performance envelope.
I believe the real issue with the transmission is that it is not as efficient as a rubber-belt direct drive. As you know, my Zero has less battery capacity than the Empulse. We both rode the same distance, at the same speed and charged up for the same amount of time, using the 120V outlets at Alice's. Granted, Bill had to travel 12 miles to get to my house, but he came up short in Montara and I was able to continue home and upon arriving I just hit the final two (flashing) "bars" on my "fuel" gauge. So my estimate is that my Zero is about 15% more efficient at speeds under 60 mph (we didn't ride faster than that) than is the Empulse, especially when you consider the Zero's slightly smaller battery pack. I should mention that when we hit the coast, we were bucking winds of around 40 mph and the temperature was in the 40's. Not the best day to go pleasure riding on an electric motorcycle.
So I think our speculation regarding transmissions vs direct-drive is pretty much borne out by this one sample comparison ride. The transmission is the thing to have if you want good acceleration and pulling ability, but direct-drive is what you want if you just want to roll as far as possible. If anyone else would like to perform a similar experiment, go right ahead. Oh yes. You can hear the Empulse coming from some distance away. It makes quite a whine, compared with my Zero.
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That's a great review, thanks Richard. I know where I'm going for Mexican when I'm out in your neck of the woods, El Grand Amigo it is!
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I checked my Kill-A-Watt meter this morning (it took most of the night to recharge my battery) and I had used 7.5 kWh to recharge. Add to that the estimated 1.3 kWh of recharging at Alice's and my 75 mile ride used 9.3 kWh of electricity at the wall, or pretty close to the pack's stated maximum capacity. I figure that I could have just made it home if I hadn't had that recharge at Alice's - but I wouldn't have wanted to sit there while my fuel gauge was flashing at me, wondering when I was going to slow down to 25 mph.
My estimate is that I was averaging just under 120 watts per mile during our ride.
I also got the feeling (based upon Bill's change in % charge reading and my loss of a couple of "bars"), upon riding one uphill section, that the Empulse was more efficient when climbing hills than my Zero. And I am pretty sure that the Zero is more efficient going downhill (especially in Eco mode) and on level ground under 50 mph.
Poor Bill had to stop off at a Safeway store on the way home, after spending an hour at the Mexican restaurant charging. He was just a few miles away from his garage in SSF when his battery charge meter read 5%. So he stopped at a Safeway and they let him recharge at the store for a while, as he did a little shopping, and he finally made it home. We plan to give it another try in the future during better weather conditions, with both bikes topped off , to verify our initial comparison results.
One other observation is that Brammo's big idea of using one of those large gun-things for recharging, even from a 120V outlet, is not very convenient. Bill had to haul around a backpack full of the gun, a book-size charger and a long extension cord (see photo on other post), in order to recharge his Empulse. All I did was to carry my stock power cord in the frame tube and I also carried a 15-foot extension cord in my little tank bag so that I could reach the outlet behind Alice's gas station without blocking their walkway past the bathrooms. I think Zero's system is better for emergency charging from a 120V wall outlet. Bill had an app that showed ChargePoint stations and there wasn't a single one along Highway 1, between Santa Cruz and Daly City, so his ability to fast charge from a Level 2 outlet didn't do him much good.
Note attached photo of the Empulse charging at Alice's. You can see the gun and just behind the fence, hanging from a dilapidated outlet, is the bright-green charger box.
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Thanks for sharing this real world comparison.
I like the Brammos. I like the styling and the higher end suspension. They look to have a very nice finish and attention to detail.
Given all of that I still like the Zeros better. The main reasons are simplicity and efficiency in design. Simple air cooling, no tranny, and belt final drive make more sense to me for an e-bike.
I think the reason that Brammo uses a 6 speed transmission is because it was off the shelf, not purpose designed for an e-bikes powerband.
It is interesting that the 2 leaders in e-bike tech are both American companies.
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I wonder how the range comparison would have been with a 2013 Zero in the mix?
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The gun looks like a nightmare. How large is the on board charger? Do you need to add chargers for Level 2 charging?
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The gun looks like a nightmare. How large is the on board charger? Do you need to add chargers for Level 2 charging?
You will probably have to check Brammo's web site for that information. Perhaps the on-board charger only takes 240V. Bill told me that the external charger that he carried pushed about 1000 watts, but it blew the 120V circuit's GFI at the back of the gas station, so he had to move to another outlet on the side of the realty office wall, behind the fence, and that worked OK. When I hooked my Zero's charger up to the outlet on the gas station, I had no problem
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It's a clipper creek portable L1 charger: (link (http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-7/PCS-dsh-15%2C-Portable-Level-1/Detail.bok)). The web site says it weighs about 9 pounds.
Brammo recently got a branded version as seen on their Facebook page (link (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151268371260443&set=a.442402705442.239501.108820970442&type=1&theater)).
Plugshare is a better app than Chargepoint. It shows chargepoint, blink network (and private chargers if you sign up for a free acocunt). There are 2 private chargers just north of HMB, near Moss Beach - about 1.4 miles south of Montara on Rte 1. You'd have to contact the owners and beg a charge, but with electric motorcycles on hand, it's not hard to get some novelty points going in your favor (note - I haven't tried that yet, I'm too shy, D'oh!)...
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I tried to plot out the map in google maps and came up with this (link (http://goo.gl/maps/Eoalq)). Am I close?
I didn't see Irish Ridge Road connecting with Tunitas Creek so I used Lobitos instead.
Also, I didn't find Higgins Purisma Road, but Higgins Canyon meets Purisma Creek Road so I assumed that was the route.
I've been doing range tests in these mountains myself, so I'll check this out (I live less than a mile from Bill for data comparison). Hopefully I overcome my fear of asking for electrons before then... ;)
Usually I skip 280, though, and take El Camino to 92 to Skyline, or El Camino to Crystal Springs Road to Bunker Hill Drive to keep off the windy highway. 280 isn't much fun. It may be quicker, but I'm discovering a lot of nice neighborhoods along El Camino and up Crystal Springs Road in my alternative wanderings...
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I tried to plot out the map in google maps and came up with this (link (http://goo.gl/maps/Eoalq)). Am I close?
I didn't see Irish Ridge Road connecting with Tunitas Creek so I used Lobitos instead.
Also, I didn't find Higgins Purisma Road, but Higgins Canyon meets Purisma Creek Road so I assumed that was the route.
I've been doing range tests in these mountains myself, so I'll check this out (I live less than a mile from Bill for data comparison). Hopefully I overcome my fear of asking for electrons before then... ;)
Usually I skip 280, though, and take El Camino to 92 to Skyline, or El Camino to Crystal Springs Road to Bunker Hill Drive to keep off the windy highway. 280 isn't much fun. It may be quicker, but I'm discovering a lot of nice neighborhoods along El Camino and up Crystal Springs Road in my alternative wanderings...
You are close, Flar. Irish Ridge Road does not show on your map, but it connects to Tunitas Creek Road shortly after it levels out. Irish Ridge Road then connects (without any signs) to Lobitos Creek Cut-off, both of these roads used to be unpaved some years ago, but now they are fully paved and offer a nice ride that takes you off the beaten path (such as Tunitas Creek), up into ranching country and across Lobitos Creek on a well-built bridge and eventually to Lobitos Creek Road. Purisima Creek Road, connects to Higgins Canyon Road at the Mid-Peninsula Open Space District's Purisima Creek Redwoods Open Space Preserve parking lot. Higgins Canyon Road then connects to Higgins Purisima Road, somewhere around Murray Ranch State Park (not much of a park) and that road continues north to connect with Half Moon Bay's Main Street. I assume that these roads were all separated at one time and have now been connected for the benefit of the traveling motorcyclist, but have kept their original names on some maps.
I don't ride much on 280, except for short distances, but before there was an I-280, there was Highway 35 (now a frontage road at times) and I will use that road and Canada Road to parallel 280. Both roads have speed limits of 50 or less and offer a route less traveled and one that will get you further when you are counting watts-per-mile. I can go from Pacifica to Los Altos Hills without ever riding on 280 for more than about a mile. :) That is the way I get to my BMW dealer in Mountain View, using just under 50% of my battery pack while traveling that 40 miles.
You, I and Bill will have to go for a ride to Alice's for lunch one of these days.
When
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The onboard Empulse charger is a Eltek Powercharge
3500 3.5 kW 3000 3 kW. It accepts either 110V or 240V AC input; so the same inlet is used for both level 1 and level 2 charging.
Level 1 charging really needs an option to set a maximum current rate. The 2012 Zero charger pulls around 8-9A peak; the 2013 Zero charger and the Empulse can pull 12-14A peak and can easily trip a non-dedicated circuit.
My general impression for the 2013 Zero lineup is they're overall 10% more efficient than the 2012 Zeros, but that low-speed efficiency is about 5% less. The 2013 S ZF8.5 has slightly less battery than the 2012 ZF9 as well.
Cool weather I think has a larger impact on the big-capacity bikes, due to a gentler discharge rate heating the batteries less. I would expect the range improvement between a Zero S ZF9 and an Empulse or a ZF8.5 and a ZF11.4 to be somewhat diminished in the cold.
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Just a thought, maybe the Brammo battery heaters were active during the ride. They could cause some range drop as they would consume power from the battery?
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Maybe, but would they even be required once you'd been riding awhile and some natural heating had occurred?
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On packs as large as ours the heating from discharge over long periods is going to be near insignificant.