ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Fgauthier on September 16, 2013, 11:55:42 PM
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Hi, I in the process of getting a new 2013 FX5.7 and planning to use the bike 75% on trail like in HOV trails Holister , CA. With a level of difficulty ranging from Blue to Black diamond with lots of loose rocks and some bushed ... Would it make more sense to convert to a chain drive system? Also, Any impact for street riding?
Side Questions,
1. how many hrs of normal riding (not too aggressive) can I expect. I usually ride about 30 miles in 4 hrs or so
2. What can I expect if I use only 1 battery instead of 2 to reduce the weight in terms of power. Could I still climb steep hills?
Thanks for your help. This is a great forum
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One of the main disadvantages of a belt drive is that foreign objects can get embedded into it (rocks, etc) and can ruin the belt/sprockets. If you're doing hardcore offroad stuff, the chain might make more sense. I wouldn't spend the money until you prematurely eat up a belt first though, unless you can get the chain for roughly the same price. There's no guarantee the belt will get destroyed, but for off-road applications they're usually not used. Hopefully you didn't already know all of this :D
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There is (reportedly (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3112.msg15560#msg15560)) no impact in torque from using 1 battery instead of 2 until about 45 mph or so .. ie should be no difference for off-roading. Using a single battery will also reduce your weight by around 45 pounds.
Trikester can probably answer for the range - I think he said he was seeing around 65 Wh/mile in trail riding, which would represent a range of approximately 38 miles with 1 battery, or 76 miles with 2 battery modules.
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Thanks for the info. One more question, beside noise level, any impact of a chain vs belt for high speed riding on streets? Max speed? Etc.
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Probably just maintenance, noise, and durability.
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Is a belt more "durable" than Chain", is maintenance just cleaning and oil?. Thanks again for your help. I am new to belt drive. I do rides dirt bikes however
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I would recommend you call Zero and talk to someone who knows about both solutions to help you decide what is best for you.
-ryan
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For street riding I would say that a belt is more durable than a "heavy duty" non-O ring chain, but not as durable as a good quality O ring-type chain. For riding in the dirt, you probably want to use a chain, as (as previously mentioned) it doesn't take much to damage a belt if debris gets between the cog wheel and the belt teeth.
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Protomech has my mileage experience pretty much spot-on. Some dirt rides I've used a little more power so I guess it depends on terrain. However, I am a dirt cruiser, not a fast rider. That said, I do ride all kinds of trails and terrain and a lot of desert sand and rock. The western US has a lot of choices for that riding.
On the chain vs belt issue I ride much more dirt than pavement so I converted my 2012 DS and my 2013 FX to chain drive before I ever rode them. I'm a firm believer in not using a belt in rocky terrain (it's hard to find any dirt rides that don't have small rocks). One rock under the belt and you're pushing home. The 520 chain that the 2013 FX conversion uses can actually crush small rocks but we always hope it never has the opportunity to do that. I think that a small rock has less tendency to stay perched on a bouncing chain than on a tight belt (just my theory).
Trikester
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I have ridden both. Here's my 2 cents.
If you are going to ride aggressively, perform any significant jumping, or go far from civilization, you want the chain. But it is definitely noisy.
If you are going to just cruise, the belt is fine. But even during a mellow ride you can suck in a branch or debris and derail or break your belt. Take a spare, especially if you are going to be far from civilization.
Personally, I'm not that aggressive a rider, and the experience offered by a silent bike with the belt drive is just surreal. But if I was going out solo, far from anyone/anything else, I might consider a chain.
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Take a spare, especially if you are going to be far from civilization.
Good idea, but you have to remove the swing arm to change the belt :o
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Oh, right, and a full tool kit. :P
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In real serious situations I've carried a chain-break tool, a short section of chain, and a couple of extra quick-links. Still a lot easier than removing the swinarm for a belt change. ;)
I always carry small pliers so I can remove the quick-link & chain if I'm in a situation where I'm going to have to push the bike a long way. Even though the bikes are not hard to push with the key off, it's even easier with the rear wheel not spinning the motor with its constant magnetic drag. That's another advantage to a chain drive.
I have a small tool box under the seat and thumb bolts to easily remove the seat. I also keep my registration and insurance card in the box. I fault Zero for not designing with a place for small tools and paperwork. Maybe these bikes don't require much work but I've had a mirror loosen while riding and some need for Allan wrenches.
Trikester
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Thanks you all for the info. I decided to go with a chain.
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I've had a mirror loosen while riding and some need for Allan wrenches.
Trikester
Ive had to tighten mirrors twice, I ended up just removing one of them and leaving one.. .next time it goes loose on me I'm breakin out the loctite!
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These guys who rode FX's from China to Italy had the Chain kit on one bike (the green one) and the belt on the other. They have some good video and photos of their trip, the English blog is a little hard to read due translation, but interesting none the less.
http://www.meneghinaexpress.com/en/ (http://www.meneghinaexpress.com/en/)
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Wow. 12k km in 44 days.. that's as long as the Ride The Future tour took to do 7k, across what is probably more friendly terrain : )
Do you know, Biff, if they had a support crew? 300 km per day is probably 3 mid-day charges and 1 overnight charge.
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On my recent dirt rides in Utah I could hear rocks hitting the bike frequently (and occasionally me). It sure gave me the warm fuzzies to know there was an HD chain, not a belt, driving the rear wheel. :)
Trikester
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I rode the 2013 Zero FX with a belt for a couple months before snapping it on a large branch. I just took it out for the first time with the chain kit and it is much LOUDER. Not a clicking or clacking like I imagined or experienced on chain driven ICE bikes but that of a car in bad shape. I don't feel like I have a stealth bike anymore. On the other hand I do feel more confident in rougher terrain away from home. Hoping the chain noise subsides some or I happen to get used to it. If anyone is worried about the noise I'm thinking of taking some audio while riding and posting it.
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Because I ride more dirt than pavement I've converted, to chain drive, all three of the Zero's I've bought as soon as I get them. Well, actually the third one was my 2013 FX and Harlan converted it before delivery. Like you, I was surprised at how much noise the chain made when I bought my first Zero (2010 DS). However, I also realized that I was more aware of the noise because I didn't have engine noise to partially cover it up and distract from it.
One thing that I've become aware of, is when I need to take slack out of the chain. The chain noise reaches a point where I'm aware that I need to adjust it. After adjustment it will be much quieter for awhile.
Trikester
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I ride a fair amount of dirt and have never broken a belt.
Of the FX the belt should be able to slip between the pulley and the swing arm so removing the rear wheel would be the way to do it on the trail. Not simple on a bike with no centers rand but certainly possible.
Personally, I like the belt for its quiet and smooth characteristics but it is great that Zero made a chain drive option.
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On my way home from my shop one day I saw a broken motorcycle drive belt lying in the street. Somebody had a bad day. :'(
Trikester
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WindRider, you have to get it past the swingarm crossmember, so it's not just a rear wheel removal. However it just occurred to me that you could use an old racer trick if you desperately want to use a belt off-road. Just have a spare belt already threaded through there and zip tie it up out of the way (Perhaps you could wrap it around the swingarm crossmember on the right hand side?) Obviously that's a bit annoying and if you break two in one trip you're out of luck!
Personally, my factory chain stretched and locked up after only a couple hundred miles so I went to a top of the line DID 520 chain. It sounds a bit like a chainsaw and is definitely the dominant sound coming from the bike but I don't care, it's a performance machine and it's still silent at a stop and very unique sounding on the move. I'm not actually using my "stealth" abilities for anything. It's still quiet enough in the forest that I can hear flying rocks and panicked wildlife. Also, I had originally planned to swap belt to chain every time I swap dirt to supermoto/commute setup but eventually just went chain full-time as swapping the front sprocket/cog was too much of a PITA. I have my wheel swap time down to about half an hour. If I bought a second rear brake rotor and sprocket I could probably shave off another 10 minutes.
Hope to see the originator of this thread around or any others riding dirt in the Bay Area! I haven't made it to Hollister yet (Sunday maybe?) but I've been to Metcalf several times and up north to Mendocino. The only other Zeros I've ever seen in action have been on highway 17 near the HQ!
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Swing arm crossmember.... Doh. You are right, that makes it more of an operation.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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Zombie thread I know.
When I replaced my belt a couple of weeks ago I tried to figure out if I could put another belt on there just in case and it turns out the short answer is no, the long answer is maybe.
The motor mounts would require you run the belt like you are going to put it on. Originally I thought I could run the belt behind the motor and tie the slack off in the space behind my battery (I have an SR) but the motor mounts get in the way of this thought.
In order to do this you would have to run it close to the top and bottom of the motor mounts and tie off there, but you are not done yet. At this point you have a ton of slack left behind your bike and in order to deal with it you are going to have to gently flex the belt back towards the motor leaving enough from for motion in the swing arm ... this would be a huge PINA.
And, the best part is even if you do it you now have another problem. Since the belt has to be inside the motor mounts and close to the original belt there is a good chance the belt that is on the bike will rub up against it >_<
I gave up after this thought experiment and simply placed my belt on leaving the spare at home :/
I have been thinking about making a sheet metal belt guard to block debris and buying another set of rims / tires / brake rotors for a DS setup to take the bike off-road more. Something tells me I should just buy a truck and an FX with a chain on it though. Might not happen till I get land so it could be a while of being paranoid whenever I travel on a gravel or dirt road with rocks.
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Personally I wouldn't tie the belt up like that around the swingarm like a few have mentioned
2 belts won't be the same size; the second one that has been bent into a peculiar position will break very soon after it's put on. You cannot bend the belts back on them self over on them self zip tie them to anything they have to be handled with care and then put straight on the bike .