ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Well I was all "Chipper" the other day and figured I would take the old DSR out for my weekly spin on the twisties to Suches, Ga, but as I was uncovering my bike, the better half mentioned there was an error on our tag bill and asked me to stop by the tag agency in town to get it corrected.

As I looked at the bill I almost fell over when I began to realize the tag fee for my little electric Zero had elevated almost 1100% from $21.00 a year to an unbelievable $225.20 thanks to a wonderful “Alternative Fuel Fee”. Here I am riding lightweight bike that have absolutely no effect in the deterioration of our National highways system, but “per capita” of what a bike actually would use - I’ll pay around 5000% more then some rich guy driving his $150,000 Tesla around town.

It’s now clear the Obama CAA “Pencil Heads” in Washington must have been using their vast clean air verses road tax intelligence to come up with this goofy math which forces us electric bike owners to pay gas tax for others driving electric cages. I'm seeing less and less reasons to own an electric bike now.

Making matters worse - when I add this $224 to my $500+ insurance bill, because my Zero DS has an R after which tells insurance its a racing bike which it ain’t, I’m now getting screwed by both the government and Insurance companies at the same time on this wonderful bike.  Ain’t life Great?  My good old ICE bikes are sure looking good right about now!

By the Way - If any one is Interested, I just listed my DSR on this forum.

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6710.0




*edit 20170313 by Shadow*  fixed topic title, remove font tag, clean up img tag width. Closes open moderation reports.

Hey Guys - thought I would share this “After-Market” cruise control for your Zero.  While this is nothing earth shattering, this little device called “Go Cruise” will give you a "Poor Mans" cruise control for around $30 that will make riding your Zero that much more enjoyable. This great piece is inexpensive, installs in just a few minutes and works exactly as intended.

The “Go Cruise” Speed Control - While simple in design, this speed control will quickly become your best friend the first few times you use it. I’m sure a lot of you get the old numb hand and cramps after squeezing that throttle after an hour or so. With Go Cruise installed on your bike, you’ll find yourself using it not only for expressway driving, but on rural roads as well. Even on windy back roads, I find myself engaging the cruise to relax my hand for a few minutes.

Increase your Zero’s Range -You’ll be surprised just how much your speed varies even though it feels like its steady. As you guys already know, constantly changing speed requires us to accelerate again which uses battery. On Interstates, I use it religiously to both maintain a constant speed and help me relax or warm my throttle hand every now and then. Even if the terrain is hilly, you can find a speed that will average out, even though it will slow and speed up on the inclines.



How it Works - As I mentioned, the Go Cruise is a super simple design that works flawlessly. The way it works is; a friction wheel allows the Go Cruise to lightly clamp on the throttles rubber grip to where it will put enough pressure to hold the throttle, but yet not enough pressure that you can't quickly release it when needed. To engage it, you simply push on the little dimple with your thumb at the upper section which allows the Go Cruise is lay on your brake lever. That’s it, let off the throttle and relax - the throttle will remain at that position until you manually lower it again then remains off until you set it.







Cheap Fun - The Go-Cruise deluxe which is one shown sells for around $32.00 and is available most anywhere. A google search shows them at most bike outlets as well as Amazon and Ebay. The Go-Cruise is made of aluminum with an anodized finish. The whole piece is high-quality construction and should last a life time. Another nice feature is you can take it from bike to bike by only loosing the thumb wheel, slide it over the throttle grip then quickly re-adjusting it for the next bike. The cruise also comes with a smooth rubber sleeve that you can snap over your grip if its not a even surface. The Go cruise will fit even the super large hand grips as well. In any case, I assure you the Go-Cruise will be the best thirty bucks you can spend on your Zero.

Regards- Mike

I was cruising down Hwy 60 today and just before i got to Suches, I notice a patrol car on the side - I looked down and I'm a few miles under the limit, next thing i know he's behind me with and gave me a toot. When I pulled over he told me I forgot to turn headlight on so i checked it and sure enough it was not working - it appears the low beam burnt out. Anyhow after 15-20 minutes of questions about the Zero he let me go with a warning. Yahoo!

Anyhow, I'm looking for a easy solution to switch out the bulb for a LED - anyone got any recommendations it would greatly be appreciated!

Advantages of Multi Speed Transmissions for Electric Motorcycles - Mike Mas

Hey guys - thought it would be a good topic to discuss the advantages of a using a 2-3 speed gearbox for or electric motorcycles. Its a proven fact that multi-speed transmissions offer an advantage of both range and performance.

Not too be misinterpreted - I’m perfectly happy with my single speed DSR Zero and understand the complexities and weight of using gear box. With that said - if Zero or any manufacture offered a new technology motorcycle with a 2-3 speed gearbox, I would be the first to get in line to buy one.

There are major advantages regarding performance and range when using a multi-speed gear box on electric cars, motorcycles and bicycles. Test have shown there is a 10-15% reduction in battery usage when using a 3 speed gear box in comparison to a single speed transmission.

While not applicable to motorcycles - there is new transmission technology called; MSYS, its a three speed transmission designed for electric cars to handle the torque of modern electric motors. The MSYS transmission uses “Cone Clutches” which offer many advantages over wet type multi clutches. These gear boxes are shown to operate at torque levels of up to 1500 ft. lbs. of torque, well above even Tesla’s powerful requirements.






As I previously mentioned, While Tesla uses a ZF single speed gear box, they realized there would be range and speed advantages of having a multi speed transmissions and spent time and money in an attempt to build one, however the project failed because of difficulties in manufacturing a transmission that could withstand the torque of their motor(s).

Typical Telsa Drive System



A company that was successful with multi-speed drives is BWM. On their BMW i8, Electric / Gas powered sports car, they drive the front wheels using a propriety motor and a GKN two-speed automatic gearbox. This transmission remains in the lower gear (11 to 1 ratio) while in “Electric Only” mode. Once the Turbo engine is started it then switches to second a higher gear (6 to 1 ratio). The two speed gear box allows exceptional “off the line” performance and improved high speed performance up to 155 mph.

BMW I8 Front Electric Drive w/ 2 Speed Transmission



Back when Tesla was trying to develop a 2 speed gearbox, I always wondered why they just didn’t compromise and use two different ratios on their 4 wheel drive cars. The front could be a lower ratio and the rear would be a higher ratio. Since they operate on separate motors there would be no syncing of the front and rear sets. A processor would make them work in unison on acceleration then supply more or less power according to speeds. Off the line, the lower ratio would provide more work, then at higher speeds the low ratio front drive could be at idle or low power while the high ratio rear would provide the majority of power to propel the car.  If BMW could sync an electric front drive and a turbo gas powered drive - then it would be a no brainer to make the multi ratio drive successful. 

BMW I8 Chassis




Its difficult to understand the advantages of a gear box with electric unless you have the opportunity to feel it for yourself. I say this because for close to 20 years I have been building and riding electric powered bicycles. With an electric powered pedal bike you have the distinct advantage to “Physically” feel the advantages when using a gear powered electric bike, verses a single speed.

The best way to describe this difference is to compare a “Hub Motor” bike system to a “Mid Drive” system. I’m sure some of the users of this forum have experience on electric bikes and will confirm the differences of a single speed drum motor verses a center drive.

Outlaw 1200 watt Hub Motor



The Hub motor - Is mounted in either the front wheel or rear wheel or in some cases both wheels and somewhat like our Zero uses a fixed, single speed ratio. Hub motors are offered in two configurations which are both single fixed ratios. The more common hub motor has fixed magnets mounted to the outer shell of the hub motor. Another hub design uses a planetary gear system to reduce the ratio to allow the motor to spin faster for more starting torque, however both of these system are single speed fixed ratio systems.

Bafang 1000 Watt Center Drive System



The Center Drive system - This application allows the motor with a reduction gear to mount on the pedal tube with its own set of pedals. Instead of the chain going to the original sprocket, it now goes on the electric drive’s motor sprocket so the motor can power the bike or you can pedal or use both.

As shown on my Giant mountain bike images, this bike has been retrofitted with a center drive 1000 watt motor, (1400 watt peak) its self contained with an integrated controller and 9 IRFB3077 MOSFETs. This controller is fully programmable with your PC, or like the Zero, minor changes made on your dash controller.  My bike is powered by a 48 volt 14AH pack that offers about 20-30 miles of range without peddling one stroke. These bikes are an absolute blast to ride and regardless of how steep the incline is they climb them with ease. These motors are available to fit most any bike.

My Giant Stance / Erad 1000 Watt Motor Drive System







The center drive has the distinct advantage over the hub motor since it uses bikes multi speed transmission (9-10 speeds mostly) for unlimited terrain advantages. In 1-3 gear, the bike has unbelievable (tractor like) power to climb and inclines up to 40 degrees or power thru sand or mud. Gear 4-7 are used for general bike riding or cruising at speeds 15-25 mph. In gears 8-9 (high gear) the bike is more geared for top speed now approaching 40-50 mph. You can shift the bike under full power since it has a shifter sense circuit which cuts the power momentarily as you shift.   

Getting back to electric motorcycles and transmissions - To appreciate the advantage of different gear ratios, after you ride these electric bicycles for a period of time, you’ll develop a skill (physical wise) for the advantage of a multi-speed gear box as you’re peddling with the motor. 

While were all aware a gearbox is not necessary for a an every day commute bike. For the guys who are hobbyist or looking for additional performance, a multi-speed transmission could offer numerous advantage. As an example, a lower ratio on our Zero would offer major advantages for off-road racing where where mud and sand are a factor on excessive draw on the motor & battery. If the bike was geared lower, the motor would be in its designed rpm and use less current. For the same reason on road applications where the bike is running at speeds at 100 mph, it would be advantageous to have a bike geared for this speed. As we all know, the “G’s” when snapping the throttle at 20-30 mph is considerable higher than that of 80-90 mph, that’s because we’ve reached the upper level of rpm’s the motor was designed for.

I’m sure the folks at Brammo had a least a few good reasons for designing the bike with a multi-speed transmission; one it would be more attractive to most bikers, and secondly offer an option for riders to select gears best for their riding environment and hopefully more range. Possibly where Brammo went wrong is by not designing a 3-4 speed transmission which would be more adaptable to an electric bike as the current 6 speed transmission in confusing and hard to shift for most riders.



In Closing - Maybe I’m way off here, but I have thought for years the best way to offer a multi-ratio on a motorcycles is on the rear wheel. Just how cool would it be to have a 2 speed gear box on the rear hub. The rear hub could have a planetary reduction gear system to lower the ratio then with a mechanical cable, you could lock it out and go back to the standard “1 to1” system like we have now.

Anyhow, at least for now, single speed transmissions are in and the slogan; “Less is More” fits the Zero’s design. What do your think?

Regards - Mike

Now that the Victory Empulse has a $10,000 cash back from the factory and remaining bikes are selling for as little as $7,000, I know a lot of riders to include a few Zero guys are looking at them was a second bike, so I thought I would briefly share my findings on the Impulses weakness compared to the Zero.

While the Victory Empulse is an attractive bike with some good features, its falls way short regarding its drive train and electronics when compared to the new generation Zero's - My Victory dealer in Virginia has been dying to sell me one since they were released. Regretfully, even now with $10-12,000 off retail, a rider would be better off looking a low end Zero demo bike at nearly the the same price.

I’ve driven the Empulse possibly a dozen times on different occasions, and each time came back disappointed on its performance, mechanical design and range. The biggest hold back for me from buying one was the “Dreaded Transmission” attempting to sync the motor to the next gear is a real trick with the quick reving motor. You can just forget all your ICE shifting experience, since this is totally different. The tach with all its flashing lights to help you shift, is confusing and in direct sunlight is almost impossible to see. I’m not saying you can’t shift it with some practice, just saying it's not anything like a conventional transmission. My self I could not deal with the clunking every time I moved the throttle, there is no way I’m going listen to that noise.

Making matters worse, the transmission has other problems, the mechanical back lash is totally un-acceptable, by simply adding or letting off the throttle, if felt the transmission was falling apart. This combined with the problems shifting, is why during test drives, the dealer instructs you to just leave it in third gear and drive it like an automatic - its clear that when Brammo designed the gear box (which was not needed) they fell short regarding tolerances. Regretfully, Victory just chose to just re-badge the bike with almost no changes and put her out there.

Another major difference is power and range, for the most part, if you're using your bike to commute, the power is fine. Regarding range which I've seen advertised from 130-140 miles - this is not going to happen. Most of the time as I rode different bikes, the dealers were telling me 50-60 miles, I drove one fully charged 32 miles and used up over half the charge.

Other than the shortcomings of power, range and the transmission, the bike looks good, has decent suspension, rides good and handles well.

I can buy one now for around $8K out the door, but with the fact that Victory has disappeared with the possibility of scarce parts combined with no “Educated” Empulse techs and no real Victory dealers and no trade in value on the back end, raises all the red flags this could be major mistake.

Regards - Mike

Living up here in North Georgia around 20 minutes from Suches, Ga  and a little over an hour from the Tail of the Dragon we get a lot of Florida bikes up here, in fact the past week we've had temperatures in the 70's and Sat & Sun it looked like Summer up here with all the bikes on the road.

Regretfully, Ive heard from a few of my buddies that a lot of guys are going down on our back roads like RT60 & RT180. The reason is they coated all the hills and turns with fine gravel a week or so ago during a storm however there is still a good coating of gravel, so please watch the roads and ride safe!

 

For those unfortunate riders who have to leave their Zero's out in the cold you might consider Googling 110 v heat wraps - these blankets or strip heaters can make a major difference to protect the cells from reaching temperatures that could damage the pack.  The blanket could just lay against either side of the battery to conduct heat to the interior of the pack. This would also add some miles to your range. I've seen these on Ebay at half the cost shown - also Home Depot & Loews carries some of these for wrapping water pipes, etc.

Regards - Mike