ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Zen on August 03, 2016, 12:35:21 AM
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So I started out looking at the FX ZF6.5, but from what I have learned here the FXS 6.5 is a better machine. My daily ride is now only 12- 30 miles a day so no problem there. The FXS I think would be a blast on these roads I travel daily. By the way gas savings are not why I am interested in Zero, but it doesn't hurt either.
Now comes my problem I would like to us this like I do my dual sport and get some camping in. I usually stealth camp. We have many camp grounds that do not have power State Parks etc. and wilderness sights. I think the 90 mile max range would work if I could actually get that. My riding is in the mountains of NH, ME, and VT paved secondary and fire service roads. I have been investigating places to charge I would be limited in most case to finding a 110v outlet in most cases. The charging areas would be 60 - 90 miles apart. Is there a super fast way to charge the FXS that uses just 110v outlets? I have even thought of a Moto Mule trailer with a small generator (Honda EU2000 ?) on it to charge, if stations are too far apart along the way.
Does the FXS have the comfort for all day riding?
Or does this sound like a job for the DS or DSR and if I go this route what would be the best setup
I truly believe that when I find the best solution I will be able to thin my heard a bit many just old tech (Ural) and new tech (Zero)
Thanks for any input and light you can shed all ideas are welcome. If you think I am off base, asking too much or whatever please let me have it, your knowledge is why I have come to this forum.
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Your typical 110v outlet is between 108 and 121 volts AC.
It will be on a 15 or 20 amp breaker.
You should not pull more than 80% of the rating of the breaker, so thats 12Amps.
So in theory, if nothing else is using the circuit (aka no coke machines, lights, etc) you can plug into most outlets and have 1300-1450 watts available at any outlet.
The onboard charger of the FX models is only 650watts... so you could double it to 1300 by adding a separate external 650 watt charger and plug it into the same outlet.
This cuts your charging time roughly in half and is fairly simple to do.
If you want to go faster than this, that is where it becomes tricky. See its not each outlet thats limited to 1300w... its the entire circuit. So unless you are POSITIVE that the second outlet nearby is on a separate breaker, you cannot plug anything else into this. This is where your hangup is. Its rare to have multiple outlets outside of one building on separate circuits.
So you can cut a 9hour charge down to 4.5 hours... but you're still waiting 4.5 hours. You are limited by the outlet.
If you use a generator, you will be running it at or near max power for however long... probably using more gas than just having a gas bike. The generator will have its wattage limit written on it (Not its peak, you need its continuous numbers)
You could use a car charging point with a more powerful charger, but you wont find that out in remote areas.
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The gen. 1600 sustainable, up to 9hrs on 1 gallon. I suppose would work in a pinch. This would handle an extra charger. Most likely the FXS will fall short trying to get my trip distance.
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FXS all day comfort, no but you can't ride it that long anyway! Seat is equivalent to a 250/450 modern dirt bike.
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FXS all day comfort, no but you can't ride it that long anyway! Seat is equivalent to a 250/450 modern dirt bike.
I have done 600 mile days on my TW200, butt was not comfort ;)
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Love my DSR, all day, probably not with the stock seat, but with the Corbin, I've done 3 hours or so in a day without any problem. It's a little wider than stock. DSR is decent for mild off-road (dirt roads, service roads, decent trails). The belt can be a problem if riding in loose stuff (stuff can get caught in the belt causing it to wear/snap). I have not ridden the FX/FXS.
Steve
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Love my DSR, all day, probably not with the stock seat, but with the Corbin, I've done 3 hours or so in a day without any problem. It's a little wider than stock. DSR is decent for mild off-road (dirt roads, service roads, decent trails). The belt can be a problem if riding in loose stuff (stuff can get caught in the belt causing it to wear/snap). I have not ridden the FX/FXS.
Steve
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Thanks Steve I appreciate your input do you have the power tank?
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Wow! If I had a Ural, I'd use that for camping and keep the Zero for commuting.
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Wow! If I had a Ural, I'd use that for camping and keep the Zero for commuting.
The Ural is my camping rig most of the time. This is where maybe I have to separate things one bike for around town and the other to go the distance. I know the fxs will handle daily life with ease. Maybe I ma asking too much of the Zero.
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Wow! If I had a Ural, I'd use that for camping and keep the Zero for commuting.
The Ural is my camping rig most of the time. This is where maybe I have to separate things one bike for around town and the other to go the distance. I know the fxs will handle daily life with ease. Maybe I ma asking too much of the Zero.
I can tell you this... if you stay within your personal comfort zone with the zero.. its one of the most enjoyable bikes out there.
When you try to "push the limits" on what it can do with range or performance.. it becomes this depressing letdown because theres a bike you love riding that cant quite do what you want it to.
Its sad but the zero cant do everything... once I accepted this instead of trying to figure how to mod it to make it work, I was much happier with the bike.
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Wow! If I had a Ural, I'd use that for camping and keep the Zero for commuting.
The Ural is my camping rig most of the time. This is where maybe I have to separate things one bike for around town and the other to go the distance. I know the fxs will handle daily life with ease. Maybe I ma asking too much of the Zero.
I can tell you this... if you stay within your personal comfort zone with the zero.. its one of the most enjoyable bikes out there.
When you try to "push the limits" on what it can do with range or performance.. it becomes this depressing letdown because theres a bike you love riding that cant quite do what you want it to.
Its sad but the zero cant do everything... once I accepted this instead of trying to figure how to mod it to make it work, I was much happier with the bike.
MrDude which Zero do you have?
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Love my DSR, all day, probably not with the stock seat, but with the Corbin, I've done 3 hours or so in a day without any problem. It's a little wider than stock. DSR is decent for mild off-road (dirt roads, service roads, decent trails). The belt can be a problem if riding in loose stuff (stuff can get caught in the belt causing it to wear/snap). I have not ridden the FX/FXS.
Steve
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Thanks Steve I appreciate your input do you have the power tank?
No, I elected to skip it. I ride mostly local and wanted to keep the bike as light as possible.
Steve
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Have any of you ridden in the mountains yet (I sure some have) ? just wondering if it compares with city, highway or combination more closely as far as distance. I am wondering because one ride which is considered close is riding the Kancamagus Highway NH which is about 55 miles of up and down hills average speed is around 40mph. There are charging stations on the other side. So would the FXS 6.8 handle one way trip charge there and come back.
Charging station there has 3 Wall Outlet (120v)s, 3 EV Plug (J1772)s, 2 Tesla HPWC (Model S)s can the J1772 be used with the FXS ?
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I've ridden a day of up-and-down trails, off road and averaging around 20mph - my FX 5.7 only did around 30 miles.
Hopefully someone else has more relevant experience, but based on my own, I would not trust an FX to do 55 miles in the mountains.
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Wow! If I had a Ural, I'd use that for camping and keep the Zero for commuting.
The Ural is my camping rig most of the time. This is where maybe I have to separate things one bike for around town and the other to go the distance. I know the fxs will handle daily life with ease. Maybe I ma asking too much of the Zero.
I can tell you this... if you stay within your personal comfort zone with the zero.. its one of the most enjoyable bikes out there.
When you try to "push the limits" on what it can do with range or performance.. it becomes this depressing letdown because theres a bike you love riding that cant quite do what you want it to.
Its sad but the zero cant do everything... once I accepted this instead of trying to figure how to mod it to make it work, I was much happier with the bike.
MrDude which Zero do you have?
I really really really wanted the FXS. I was all set until I rode one.
I ended up with a SR. It fit our needs better.
I probably will buy a used FXS in a couple years once the prices come down or sooner if our situation changes to allow it to work for me.
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The DSR can do > 100 miles when running at or around 40MPH (without a charge tank). Regen would come into play on the steeps giving you some recovery and efficiency is pretty high below 50MPH in my experience. I've covered 60+ miles and come home with 41% riding back roads (route 4 from Portsmouth to Northwood and back). Not as hilly as the Kang...
Steve
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thanks Steve, I may need to look more at the DSR, I was looking at the FXS for fun factor
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Have any of you ridden in the mountains yet (I sure some have) ? just wondering if it compares with city, highway or combination more closely as far as distance. I am wondering because one ride which is considered close is riding the Kancamagus Highway NH which is about 55 miles of up and down hills average speed is around 40mph. There are charging stations on the other side. So would the FXS 6.8 handle one way trip charge there and come back.
Charging station there has 3 Wall Outlet (120v)s, 3 EV Plug (J1772)s, 2 Tesla HPWC (Model S)s can the J1772 be used with the FXS ?
I just got my SR so can't comment on mountain riding but will tell you a story of a ride I took on the kang last month with my electric car. Thought I had plenty of miles to make it to a waterfall but as I entered the climb, the battery started sucking power like I've never seen before, so the predicted 55 mi range dropped to 12 after I completed the climb. I was 20 mi from a gas station. Barely made it, and that was because the return trip was mostly downhill. I'm guessing the same would apply to the zero's batteries. There are a few guys who went cost to coast and crossed the different ranges of mountains, so I'm sure they could chime in on their battery experiences
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Have any of you ridden in the mountains yet (I sure some have) ? just wondering if it compares with city, highway or combination more closely as far as distance. I am wondering because one ride which is considered close is riding the Kancamagus Highway NH which is about 55 miles of up and down hills average speed is around 40mph. There are charging stations on the other side. So would the FXS 6.8 handle one way trip charge there and come back.
Charging station there has 3 Wall Outlet (120v)s, 3 EV Plug (J1772)s, 2 Tesla HPWC (Model S)s can the J1772 be used with the FXS ?
I just got my SR so can't comment on mountain riding but will tell you a story of a ride I took on the kang last month with my electric car. Thought I had plenty of miles to make it to a waterfall but as I entered the climb, the battery started sucking power like I've never seen before, so the predicted 55 mi range dropped to 12 after I completed the climb. I was 20 mi from a gas station. Barely made it, and that was because the return trip was mostly downhill. I'm guessing the same would apply to the zero's batteries. There are a few guys who went cost to coast and crossed the different ranges of mountains, so I'm sure they could chime in on their battery experiences
Is your car a hybrid or total electric? Because you mentioned gas station
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If I go DSR which setup is better power tank or Diginow or ?? advantages of one over the other
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If I go DSR which setup is better power tank or Diginow or ?? advantages of one over the other
We need to write this up on the wiki, but here's the tradeoff:
Powertank: 25% more range, no charge rate improvement so charge time to full goes up 25%. Weight goes up.
Charger upgrade: depends on charger. Charge Tank and Elcon both yield ~3x charging improvement. Charge Tank consumes tank area so excludes a power tank, and weighs the most. One Elcon is less expensive, less heavy, fits in a case, and provides a little more than the Charge Tank. DigiNow Supercharger is very compact, ~8x charging improvement, lighter than an Elcon, but the most expensive. Fits in the tank or a top case but not a side case.
If you want more miles for a single charge, a power tank will solve that problem but try buying a windscreen first if all you care about is not losing highway range, because it's cheaper and highway range is mostly about drag.
If you want more miles **per day**, get a charger. A single Elcon will let you use 2-3 full charges in a day as long as you can afford 1-2 hours between stretches. The Supercharger raises that to about 7+ charges in a day, depending on your stamina and planning.
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Have any of you ridden in the mountains yet (I sure some have) ? just wondering if it compares with city, highway or combination more closely as far as distance. I am wondering because one ride which is considered close is riding the Kancamagus Highway NH which is about 55 miles of up and down hills average speed is around 40mph. There are charging stations on the other side. So would the FXS 6.8 handle one way trip charge there and come back.
Charging station there has 3 Wall Outlet (120v)s, 3 EV Plug (J1772)s, 2 Tesla HPWC (Model S)s can the J1772 be used with the FXS ?
I just got my SR so can't comment on mountain riding but will tell you a story of a ride I took on the kang last month with my electric car. Thought I had plenty of miles to make it to a waterfall but as I entered the climb, the battery started sucking power like I've never seen before, so the predicted 55 mi range dropped to 12 after I completed the climb. I was 20 mi from a gas station. Barely made it, and that was because the return trip was mostly downhill. I'm guessing the same would apply to the zero's batteries. There are a few guys who went cost to coast and crossed the different ranges of mountains, so I'm sure they could chime in on their battery experiences
Is your car a hybrid or total electric? Because you mentioned gas station
It's a Volt but the gas tank was pretty much empty. I thought I could make it on the electric miles remaining but the climb pretty much ate all those up way faster than I had ever seen before. if I would have had gas, it wouldn't have been an issue.
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If I go DSR which setup is better power tank or Diginow or ?? advantages of one over the other
We need to write this up on the wiki, but here's the tradeoff:
Powertank: 25% more range, no charge rate improvement so charge time to full goes up 25%. Weight goes up.
Charger upgrade: depends on charger. Charge Tank and Elcon both yield ~3x charging improvement. Charge Tank consumes tank area so excludes a power tank, and weighs the most. One Elcon is less expensive, less heavy, fits in a case, and provides a little more than the Charge Tank. DigiNow Supercharger is very compact, ~8x charging improvement, lighter than an Elcon, but the most expensive. Fits in the tank or a top case but not a side case.
If you want more miles for a single charge, a power tank will solve that problem but try buying a windscreen first if all you care about is not losing highway range, because it's cheaper and highway range is mostly about drag.
If you want more miles **per day**, get a charger. A single Elcon will let you use 2-3 full charges in a day as long as you can afford 1-2 hours between stretches. The Supercharger raises that to about 7+ charges in a day, depending on your stamina and planning.
Brian
Thanks for the info what are the power requirements for the supercharger, normal outlets won't do the trick correct. Living in northern new england can be like third world countries.
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If I go DSR which setup is better power tank or Diginow or ?? advantages of one over the other
We need to write this up on the wiki, but here's the tradeoff:
Powertank: 25% more range, no charge rate improvement so charge time to full goes up 25%. Weight goes up.
Charger upgrade: depends on charger. Charge Tank and Elcon both yield ~3x charging improvement. Charge Tank consumes tank area so excludes a power tank, and weighs the most. One Elcon is less expensive, less heavy, fits in a case, and provides a little more than the Charge Tank. DigiNow Supercharger is very compact, ~8x charging improvement, lighter than an Elcon, but the most expensive. Fits in the tank or a top case but not a side case.
If you want more miles for a single charge, a power tank will solve that problem but try buying a windscreen first if all you care about is not losing highway range, because it's cheaper and highway range is mostly about drag.
If you want more miles **per day**, get a charger. A single Elcon will let you use 2-3 full charges in a day as long as you can afford 1-2 hours between stretches. The Supercharger raises that to about 7+ charges in a day, depending on your stamina and planning.
Brian
Thanks for the info what are the power requirements for the supercharger, normal outlets won't do the trick correct. Living in northern new england can be like third world countries.
It has a product page for that: http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
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Thanks for the link
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We'll have to get together some time for a group ride. I know there is one or 2 other zero owners out there in NH. I went for the Power tank option, main reason, more range. I'll be riding with others on ice bikes and for a day trip, I'm going to need range to get there and back without inconveniencing them to have to wait for me somewhere while charging. Not to mention driving off route to find a charger. I will begetting a diginow as well, but max range in a area that doesn't have many charging locations was key in my decision process.
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We'll have to get together some time for a group ride. I know there is one or 2 other zero owners out there in NH. I went for the Power tank option, main reason, more range. I'll be riding with others on ice bikes and for a day trip, I'm going to need range to get there and back without inconveniencing them to have to wait for me somewhere while charging. Not to mention driving off route to find a charger. I will begetting a diginow as well, but max range in a area that doesn't have many charging locations was key in my decision process.
I am looking at both options as well, charging stations in the North are few and far between
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Dukecola where are you located?
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Dukecola where are you located?
FYI, I am in Newington NH...
Steve
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Thanks Steve I have noticed not many list their location or rides
on this forum
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did a quick ride this morning on my RX3 Conway North Conway Intervale Bartlett Bear Mountain Road the kangamangus highway back down into Conway through Albany, Eaton back to Center Conway it was about 75 miles so from this I believe I need DS or possibly DSR as looking at this ride was one of my shorter rides. And the only charging would have been in my own town. Of course the whole time I was thinking man the FXS would be one hell of a fun ride.
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I believe I need DS or possibly DSR as looking at this ride was one of my shorter rides. And the only charging would have been in my own town. Of course the whole time I was thinking man the FXS would be one hell of a fun ride.
The Zero S that I was loaned balances better than my DSR and I was nervous i.e. taking the S down concrete steps or hooligan moves over center divider curbs. The Zero DSR goes pretty much wherever I want to go and some places I probably shouldn't be as well, but it is more likely for the suspension to unload and dump me off the bike when backing out of a parking spot or trying to dismount or even just a quick stop at very low speed with any kind of turn angle at all. Also I can't possibly flat foot the Zero DSR with just me 5'10" height as the rider and regular sturdy shoes.
Key to figuring out this is that really either the SR or DSR are probably what you want, and they're priced right about equally, so it's going to be wise to get the one that matches what you're going to do with it and if you plan to also get an FXS that's important to think about too.
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Thanks for that info.
seat height is really not a concern I am 5'11" with 33" inseam. Most dirt bikes and dual sport seats are around 35" + unless you lower them. So over the past 48 years of riding I have gotten use to compensating for not being able to flat foot. It is a trade off you have to pay for suspension travel.
My main concern is riding distance, and distance from charge to charge. This will be a change of riding style for me, I usually get on the bike and ride only get off to relieve myself, many times I don't even stop to eat. So I will have to get use to stopping to smell the roses or charging stations along the way.
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DSR is now my aim, but now how to set it up w/wo power tank, charge tank, skip both go with supercharger or an another combination.
Daily ride the DSR alone with Givi bags would be ideal but may just go with top case.
Weekend rides and trips I take, I think the supercharger is a must have. I am not sure but I think I would keep it external.
Is the power tank really worth the few extra miles??
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Power Tank on a DSR sounds sketchy in terms of adding weight high on up. Would go for SR if doing Power Tank or mounting Diginow SuperCharger higher up than tank area.
Power Tank most useful features make the most sense on SR not DSR.
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The SR does not meet my riding or riding style at all. There are plenty of dual sport bikes that are top heavy. I would think the weight up high would hurt the SRs handling just as much as the DRs.
The power tank does however as you state add around 44 lbs. up high, I do not know what the charge tank or the supercharger weigh.
I do not believe I would want the supercharger built in anyway as I would not need it most of the time just on trips. Also if I were to get another Zero I could use it on more than one bike.
Does one need the charge tank and supercharger??
is the charge tank a waste of money if buying the supercharger??
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The power tank does however as you state add around 44 lbs. up high, I do not know what the charge tank or the supercharger weigh.
I do not believe I would want the supercharger built in anyway as I would not need it most of the time just on trips. Also if I were to get another Zero I could use it on more than one bike.
Does one need the charge tank and supercharger??
is the charge tank a waste of money if buying the supercharger??
The Super Charger is about 25lbs. I'll weigh it later for more exact data.
In my opinion...yes, it is a waste to buy a charge tank if you are getting an SC. If you already had a charge tank and you wanted an SC for more charging I could see keeping the charge tank rather than selling it. However, it's a lot of money to spend if you know you are buying an SC. The only scenario where you could use both would be situations where you had access to two J1772 plugs. There are cheaper options out there if you want to cover yourself for that scenario. Namely, you could get an Elcon. You should see some pop up for sale used pretty soon. I think @benswing said he is planning to sell one or both of his and there will be others for sale too I'm sure.
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The power tank does however as you state add around 44 lbs. up high, I do not know what the charge tank or the supercharger weigh.
I do not believe I would want the supercharger built in anyway as I would not need it most of the time just on trips. Also if I were to get another Zero I could use it on more than one bike.
Does one need the charge tank and supercharger??
is the charge tank a waste of money if buying the supercharger??
The Super Charger is about 25lbs. I'll weigh it later for more exact data.
In my opinion...yes, it is a waste to buy a charge tank if you are getting an SC. If you already had a charge tank and you wanted an SC for more charging I could see keeping the charge tank rather than selling it. However, it's a lot of money to spend if you know you are buying an SC. The only scenario where you could use both would be situations where you had access to two J1772 plugs. There are cheaper options out there if you want to cover yourself for that scenario. Namely, you could get an Elcon. You should see some pop up for sale used pretty soon. I think @benswing said he is planning to sell one or both of his and there will be others for sale too I'm sure.
Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated
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Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated
np.
One other thought. It might seem crazy now since almost no one even has an SC yet but eventually someone is gonna do it...TWO super chargers. It can be done and gives you a lot more flexibility than an SC and a charge tank would. You could have one installed in the tank area on the bike and a second in a top box. This is really a solution for someone with a lot of money to burn or someone who has other EV's that the second SC can be used for when its not needed on the Zero (since the SC can be programmed for pack voltages other than the Zero's).
Or maybe for someone that has more than one Zero. For example, if you had a Zero SR with an SC installed in the tank and you had an FX or FXS and using a second SC to for that....on the occasion where you really need the extra charging capability you could put the second SC in the Zero SR top box.
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Many people are saying the Zero batteries can handle up to a 5C charge rate.
But beware if you are going over 1C.
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Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated
np.
One other thought. It might seem crazy now since almost no one even has an SC yet but eventually someone is gonna do it...TWO super chargers. It can be done and gives you a lot more flexibility than an SC and a charge tank would. You could have one installed in the tank area on the bike and a second in a top box. This is really a solution for someone with a lot of money to burn or someone who has other EV's that the second SC can be used for when its not needed on the Zero (since the SC can be programmed for pack voltages other than the Zero's).
Or maybe for someone that has more than one Zero. For example, if you had a Zero SR with an SC installed in the tank and you had an FX or FXS and using a second SC to for that....on the occasion where you really need the extra charging capability you could put the second SC in the Zero SR top box.
I don't think I will go to that extreme but then again who knows