ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Mooseman on November 16, 2022, 11:18:23 PM
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Hi all, I am having issues with the cellular connectivity module (CCM). It started earlier this year after I installed an update (I don't recall which one). I had the bike at a dealer in Lakefield, ON and despite me going there twice to have the issue resolved, they were unable to help. The CCM got replaced during the first visit but still wouldn't work so I had to go to have it "initiated" (whatever that means) but still no dice.
I decided to bring the bike to another dealer in St. Eustache, QC and although I initially had a good feeling that they would be able to fix the problem, I'm now losing confidence that this will ever happen.
I called them after a week to inquire about the status of the repair and was told it's working now but it turned out it still doesn't work. I uninstalled the Zero NextGen app, re-installed it, no success. Also the ZeNGo app doesn't connect to the bike. Zero implied that the CCM is the problem since they haven't seen any connection attempts from the bike in months either.
Anyway, so the dealer told me the problem is likely the software. I'm not sure if he's referring to the MBB/BMS software or the app.
If that was accurate, neither one of us would be able to connect to the bike via the CCM (this is explicitly NOT about the Bluetooth connection which works fine).
What is everybody's situation? Can you see the current SoC in your app while the bike is keyed off and/or more than 20 metres away? If you respond, please include vehicle, year, MBB/BMS, phone OS and app version.
In my case that's:
Bike: 2021 SR/S with power tank
MBB/BMS: unknown, bike is at the dealer and I have no access
Phone OS: Android 12
Zero NextGen app version: 2.7
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I have the same problem, SR/F MY2020 MBB27 MBS21 latest android app, but i think it's not relevant since you can check online data with zengo apps or browser
disconnect 12v battery, my ccm will work until you ride the bike, than it will die until the next 12v power disconnection.
there is a service recall
https://dot.report/bulletins/10216888
but dealer report is only for usa bikes....
anyway my ccm is fw_ver, 2020.4.16, you can read with diagnostic serial cable.
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I will take a look and get back to you soon. 2020 SRS, Galaxy S10
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same problem for me since the beginning of 2022 following a breakdown due to water.
2 high voltage bars have been changed but the cellular connection recovers by disconnecting, reconnecting the 12 volt battery.
SR/S MY2021 MBB27 MBS21 ios app iphone 14 pro max
and to say that it worked not too badly before it broke down grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
and out of the question to bring it back to the very bad dealer.
I plan to drop it off and inspect it soon....
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I bought my SR/F in November 2019. I have had a couple of months without connectivity in 2020, but this was again working after a firmware update. I get the most important information, SoC and time to charge target, but the notifications have always been a hit and miss thing.
I once read that CCM was becoming subject to a fee after two years. In my case that is 2 years and 11 months already. I guess they could use their Cypher store for that, at some future point.
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I have the same problem, SR/F MY2020 MBB27 MBS21 latest android app, but i think it's not relevant since you can check online data with zengo apps or browser
disconnect 12v battery, my ccm will work until you ride the bike, than it will die until the next 12v power disconnection.
there is a service recall
https://dot.report/bulletins/10216888
but dealer report is only for usa bikes....
anyway my ccm is fw_ver, 2020.4.16, you can read with diagnostic serial cable.
Exactly the same for me
the bike is in dealer (Toulouse/France) today, and a guy from Zero should inspect it again ...
I hope having news this evening
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I experimented to be sure before replying. If my bike is keyed on, or on a charger whether charging or on a time delay, Remote Connectivity shows its location, if its charging or not, and SOC. If not on or plugged, Remote Connectivity has the appearance of working in the app, but shows the data from when it was last on, or plugged. As an example when I arrived home last night it had 22% SOC. I walked out in the street well out of BT distance and Remote Connected. It showed 22. My bike typically shows around 10% higher after sitting for a few minutes after my ride home. I waited a half hour, Remote Connected again... still 22. Then I keyed the bike on with no BT conn on the phone, observed it was now 33, keyed it back off, walked out into the street, and tried a 3rd time. Still shows 22. Then for my final test, keyed the bike on, while. BT is off on phone of course, went out to the street location, and Remoted. Now it showed 33 on the app.
I have 25 and 20 as firmware versions and the latest app.
To my recollection, my cellular conn has always worked ( or not?) in that manner.
The text messages it is supposed to send randomly dont arrive and are seldom timely, so I ignore them. It might tell me my "charging was interrupted" minutes, hours, or a day after the event or not at all.
Edit I dont know for sure if being connected to a charger makes it update in RC. Thats something I assumed. Im going to experiment with that next.
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My bike uploads its data to the cloud also when turned off and unplugged. It is parked in an underground garage where I mostly do not get any connectivity. Mostly because the screenshot I uploaded with my previous message proved that it had nonetheless manage to connect this morning.
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Thanks for the responses guys, I really appreciate your input. Looks like I'm not the only one with this problem. That doesn't make it any better and I will push for the dealer to buy back the bike if they can't fix it. It's bad enough that the cellular connection doesn't work, but since they aren't able to fix things within a day, I'd potentially be paying hundreds of dollars on insurance while the bike is at the shop all summer long. I have zero confidence (<- see what I did there?) that they are able to fix a real problem that prevents me from using the bike if one occurs. I really wanted to like this bike but the manufacturer is about as incompetent as can be. I just don't want to do business with a company that doesn't understand their own product and basically ignores their customers.
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News from my dealer this evening : the zero guys decide to change the CCM.
I will take back my bike tomorrow and they will change the CCM when it will be available at dealer.
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Good luck. Please let us know if they succeed and how long it took them to fix the problem.
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I also got a new CCM. For me it was easy to proof to Zero, that the CCM wais bad. I accessed the Zero MBB Console. This is what I got
ZERO MBB>
*************************************************************
* CCM Data *
*************************************************************
UTC_time: Mon, 01/01/2007 00:00:00
Parameter, Value, In Test
last_packet_s, 116, 0
last_packet_ms, 176, 0
unit_id, 0, 0
fw_ver, 2000.0.0, 0
fw_ver_raw, 0x00, 0
hw_ver, 0, 0
Whats interesting: UTC time is off. I guess this translates to time 0. firmware version is also off. I also think this is just all 000.
If you are in doubt if your CCM modul works I would recommend to read the CCM data from the MBB console.
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I also got a new CCM. For me it was easy to proof to Zero, that the CCM wais bad. I accessed the Zero MBB Console. This is what I got
ZERO MBB>
*************************************************************
* CCM Data *
*************************************************************
UTC_time: Mon, 01/01/2007 00:00:00
Parameter, Value, In Test
last_packet_s, 116, 0
last_packet_ms, 176, 0
unit_id, 0, 0
fw_ver, 2000.0.0, 0
fw_ver_raw, 0x00, 0
hw_ver, 0, 0
Whats interesting: UTC time is off. I guess this translates to time 0. firmware version is also off. I also think this is just all 000.
If you are in doubt if your CCM modul works I would recommend to read the CCM data from the MBB console.
Hello
can you tell us how you access all this data?
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The data was read through the OBD2 port with a simple adapter cable. Useful links:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/How_to_build_a_cable_to_access_the_MBB
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen3/MBB_Console
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thanks ms- smart
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hello,
news from Zero : they will change the CCM. The dealer already received it ...
I had a second pb, with the battery ... and they notice also to change the battery !! cause recent magic charging, and couldn't do more than 80km with full SOC ... the bike have 17 000km, and the problem is new since 2 weeks ... they had uploaded logs, and confirmed today the need to change the battery.
A support guy from Zero will come to my dealer to do the battery swap, stile waiting now to know when a battery will be available ... (sorry out of the thread for this last point)
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while waiting to receive the ttl cable for the ccm diag
a person from the French forum shared a link for me to connect the ccm.
here is my data
What do you think ???
<data>
<item>
<unitnumber>******</unitnumber>
<name>*****************</name>
<unittype>5</unittype>
<unitmodel>6</unitmodel>
<analog1>0.09</analog1>
<mileage>6377.98</mileage>
<software_version>200416</software_version>
<logic_state>2</logic_state>
<reason>2</reason>
<response>0</response>
<driver>0</driver>
<longitude>-0.6818</longitude>
<latitude>46.6525</latitude>
<altitude>101</altitude>
<gps_valid>1</gps_valid>
<gps_connected>1</gps_connected>
<satellites>4</satellites>
<velocity>0</velocity>
<heading>352</heading>
<emergency>0</emergency>
<shock/>
<ignition>0</ignition>
<door>0</door>
<hood>0</hood>
<volume>0</volume>
<water_temp/>
<oil_pressure>0</oil_pressure>
<main_voltage>12.4</main_voltage>
<analog3>0</analog3>
<siren>0</siren>
<lock>0</lock>
<int_lights>0</int_lights>
<datetime_utc>20221209144539</datetime_utc>
<datetime_actual>20221209144538</datetime_actual>
<address>La Gourbillière</address>
<perimeter/>
<color>2</color>
<soc>82</soc>
<tipover>0</tipover>
<charging>0</charging>
<chargecomplete>0</chargecomplete>
<pluggedin>1</pluggedin>
<chargingtimeleft>0</chargingtimeleft>
<storage>0</storage>
</item>
</data>
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here are the links for that info.
the first gives the number of the ccm unit
the second, the connection info.
put the email, the password, and the number of the ccm.
thank you to the person of the forum electrique.fr vehicles (schinze for not the quoted lol)
https://mongol.brono.com/mongol/api.php?commandname=get_units&format=xml&user=[TON_MAIL]&pass=[TON_PASS]
https://mongol.brono.com/mongol/api.php?commandname=get_last_transmit&format=xml&user=[TON_MAIL]&pass=[TON_PASS]&unitnumber=[TON_UNITNUMBER]
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while waiting to receive the ttl cable for the ccm diag
a person from the French forum shared a link for me to connect the ccm.
here is my data
What do you think ???
<data>
<item>
<software_version>200416</software_version>
</data>
i see you are on the same fw 2020.4.16 as i am, and my ccm is not working too, maybe this EU firmware is bad and who have it... you know..
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I sent zero parts in the Netherlands an email, for a quote on the New CCM 2022, if it is compatible on my sr/s 2021?
no news for
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CCM part numbers for 2021 and 2022 models are different (at least here in the USA), but that may only be because the 2022 part is listed as 4G. Parts catalogs are available on the AF1 Racing website (https://www.af1racing.com/).
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Update: in short, nothing is happening. My bike has been sitting at the dealership since November 3rd. After posting here someone from Zero contacted me to offer help. Interesting since I tried to get Zero involved so they can hopefully fix the issue but they pretty much brushed me off.
Anyway, so I was told they'd get in touch with the dealer to get the issue resolved. That was two weeks ago. Nobody contacted me during this time, no status update, no nothing. The only thing that has changed is that the app now says that the last connection was 6 months ago instead of 5...
I wish I could say I'm disappointed but this is actually exactly what I expected after all the bad experience I've had with Zero so far. This company is dead to me. I've never seen so much incompetence in both technical skills and customer service. It is beyond me how it can take so long to replace a part and set it up so that it works.
Sorry for the rant.
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really sorry for you.
I am in the same position as you.
CCM still not working.
this morning, insulation fault 43, the bike no longer charges.
I will try to reset the motherboard.
I love this bike but I no longer trust zero.
only words, but no action.
they should be harassed on facebook
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I connected the usb ttl cable to the odb2 socket
plugged into the bike, and it gives me this.
cannot type a command name.
ideas ?
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:30:24.023 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 552 - Disable flags changed. Old: 0x000d New: 0x0001
12/18/2022 12:30:24.231 - Connecting mod 3. V_(mod: 115935, bus: 115860, bus_oc: 0)mV,
12/18/2022 12:30:24.233 - I_(out: 1333, lim_dischg: 552000, lim_chg: -28000, lim_CC: 100000)mA
12/18/2022 12:30:24.540 - Module 3 Contactor is now Closed
12/18/2022 12:30:26.203 - CHARGER LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:30:27.032 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 2373 - Fault cleared: CONTROLLER_WARNING
12/18/2022 12:30:29.775 - CHARGER LSS: Found unassigned node with identity: 0x00000466 0x00000009 0x006400C9 0x001DC5B0.
12/18/2022 12:30:29.814 - CHARGER LSS: Successfully assigned node ID 0x10
12/18/2022 12:30:29.845 - CHARGER LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
12/18/2022 12:30:30.835 - CHARGER LSS: Scan Failed.
12/18/2022 12:30:31.355 - CHARGER LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
12/18/2022 12:30:35.094 - CHARGER LSS: Found unassigned node with identity: 0x00000466 0x00000009 0x006400C9 0x001DC556.
12/18/2022 12:30:35.133 - CHARGER LSS: Successfully assigned node ID 0x11
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:34.705 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 627 - Key Sw = OFF
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:34.799 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 545 - Control flags changed. Old: 0x4076 New: 0x4078
12/18/2022 12:31:34.801 - State change from STOP to HIB
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:34.837 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_msc.c : line 1185 - MTC pending change by 3 from 1 to 1
Charge State 1 from 3
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:34.841 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 545 - Control flags changed. Old: 0x4078 New: 0x0070
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:34.843 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 552 - Disable flags changed. Old: 0x0001 New: 0x0005
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.303 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 620 - Key Sw = ON
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.305 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 545 - Control flags changed. Old: 0x0070 New: 0x007e
12/18/2022 12:31:41.306 - State change from HIB to WAIT
Charge State 1 from 3
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.321 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 545 - Control flags changed. Old: 0x007e New: 0x4076
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.346 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 666 - Kickstand Sw = UP
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.348 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 545 - Control flags changed. Old: 0x4076 New: 0x4066
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.417 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 658 - Kickstand Sw = DOWN
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:41.418 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 545 - Control flags changed. Old: 0x4066 New: 0x4076
12/18/2022 12:31:41.770 - LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
12/18/2022 12:31:42.392 - LSS: Found unassigned node with identity: 0x00000466 0x00000002 0x00000001 0x000100BC.
12/18/2022 12:31:42.427 - LSS: Successfully assigned node ID 0x0A
12/18/2022 12:31:42.448 - LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
12/18/2022 12:31:43.063 - Registering Mod 2 (115941mV, 1 brick )
12/18/2022 12:31:43.141 - LSS: Found unassigned node with identity: 0x00000466 0x00000002 0x00000001 0x00011864.
12/18/2022 12:31:43.169 - LSS: Successfully assigned node ID 0x0B
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:43.276 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 552 - Disable flags changed. Old: 0x0005 New: 0x000d
12/18/2022 12:31:43.874 - Registering Mod 3 (115938mV, 4 brick )
12/18/2022 12:31:44.177 - State change from WAIT to STOP
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:44.185 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 3650 - Entered STOP- opening latch
12/18/2022 12:31:44.190 - All Contactors open
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:44.279 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 2218 - Fault set: CONTROLLER_WARNING
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:44.280 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 2253 - controller warning 200
12/18/2022 12:31:44.567 - Precharging from module 2, Vpackoc: 115944mV
12/18/2022 12:31:44.568 - Connecting mod 2. V_(mod: 115944, bus: 0, bus_oc: 0)mV,
12/18/2022 12:31:44.570 - I_(out: 0, lim_dischg: 151000, lim_chg: -7000, lim_CC: 100000)mA
12/18/2022 12:31:45.888 - Module 2 Contactor is now Closed
12/18/2022 12:31:45.890 - At least one contactor is now closed
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:45.892 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 552 - Disable flags changed. Old: 0x000d New: 0x0001
12/18/2022 12:31:46.099 - Connecting mod 3. V_(mod: 115935, bus: 115845, bus_oc: 0)mV,
12/18/2022 12:31:46.100 - I_(out: 1600, lim_dischg: 552000, lim_chg: -28000, lim_CC: 100000)mA
12/18/2022 12:31:46.398 - Module 3 Contactor is now Closed
12/18/2022 12:31:48.010 - CHARGER LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
DEBUG: 12/18/2022 12:31:48.869 ../src/Application/zero_mbb_manage_bike.c : line 2373 - Fault cleared: CONTROLLER_WARNING
12/18/2022 12:31:51.762 - CHARGER LSS: Found unassigned node with identity: 0x00000466 0x00000009 0x006400C9 0x001DC556.
12/18/2022 12:31:51.803 - CHARGER LSS: Successfully assigned node ID 0x10
12/18/2022 12:31:51.843 - CHARGER LSS: Found at least one unassigned node.
12/18/2022 12:31:56.483 - CHARGER LSS: Found unassigned node with identity: 0x00000466 0x00000009 0x006400C9 0x001DC5B0.
12/18/2022 12:31:56.530 - CHARGER LSS: Successfully assigned node ID 0x11
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yes, zero console is not standard,
you can use this small program i made to interface it
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xFppbBsfCtPkoJzsk0wwxbPf_gVOVHPW/view?usp=sharing
"open" the FTDI com port connected to the bike and type the comand or select the tab with pre-coded commands to show data.
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@zeronimbus, I also get from time to time DEBUG messages - but have never seen that many. Normally you can just ignore them. If you can't type in a command, your serial line settings might be incorrect.
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Hi all, I had similar issues with my 2020 SRF as those above. My failure was triggered by the v19 firmware upgrade, replaced under warranty by the dealer, back and forth to trouble shoot and I ended up resolving on my own.
There’s a thread on this : https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10973.msg102112#msg102112
My CCM had to be replaced a 2nd time as the first module wasn’t coded to my unit. The new module worked at the dealers and then lasted 1 day, after which it only worked when keyed on or on charge. That lasted 2 more days, after which - nada, “NOT CONNECTED”. I waited and chased for months but my dealer and Zero country team weren’t interested.
In the end, I disconnected the CCM module completely and removed and replaced the SIM card. That did the trick. In future if I ever get a CCM issue again I’ll be doing this first. It’s really easy to do. Obviously DON’T if your bike is still under warranty!
This is a good FB article on how to get into the CCM and what it looks like:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php?title=Gen3/Cellular_Communications_Module&oldid=7116
Paul.
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yes, zero console is not standard,
you can use this small program i made to interface it
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xFppbBsfCtPkoJzsk0wwxbPf_gVOVHPW/view?usp=sharing
"open" the FTDI com port connected to the bike and type the comand or select the tab with pre-coded commands to show data.
Can you post the source code? I would like to rewrite it to run on Linux.
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So I just received an email telling me that my CCM is now working. The bike has been sitting at the dealership for 4 months. I still can't connect to the bike via the app though. I even installed the Zero NextGen app on a different phone where it has never been installed before and there is still no connection to the bike.
Zero claims that they can see the bike from their end and tells me that the problem will be fixed with an app update that is "scheduled to be released in April".
I have a hard time believing that this is true. I can't even connect to the bike using the ZenGo app. Also, am I to understand that all previous app versions since February 2022 had the same issue? Wouldn't that mean that as of right now, nobody can access their bike via the NextGen app version 2.7.1?
Something doesn't seem right. Plus, either way: my problem hasn't been resolved. I brought my bike in with the problem description that I can't connect to the bike via the cell connection. As it stands right now, I still can't. I just want this POS repaired so I can sell it and never deal with Zero Motorcycles again. "The Tesla of Motorcycles" my ass. I never had anything even close to this mess happen with my Model 3.
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The part I dont get is, why did it need to sit in a shop for them to come to this determination?
At least it could be ridden while they were sorting that out.
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Whatever the issue is, the bike has been sitting at the dealership for five and a half months now and I am done talking to them. I hired a lawyer to represent me and they can take this piece of garbage back.
I really wanted to like this bike but two different dealerships have been unable to repair the bike, it's getting warmer outside and I'm paying for the insurance while the bike is at the shop. No thanks. The manufacturer wasn't helping either. Someone telling me how sorry they are isn't going to change anything.
At this point I can only advise against getting a Zero motorcycle. They're great while they're working, but once you have a problem you can basically throw it away. Plus there are all these little issues that they've never addressed, like no brakelight when recuperating, cruise control is unable to keep the speed in an incline, no CCS charging capability, incandescent bulbs in the turn signals, inability to recharge below freezing while storage mode doesn't lower the consumption enough to make it through the winter... all these are problems that the 2014 BMW K1600GT I now bought doesn't have to deal with.
I'll update the forum on how the legal proceedings go but other than that it turns out that at this time an electric motorcycle just isn't for me. Zero is dead to me, I don't like the Lifewire and Energica isn't even available in Canada. Ah well, I still have my Tesla. At least that's something that works and gets serviced if need be.
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There's an Energica dealer in Wisconsin, USA.
Can you talk to them and get the bike?
I have heard that they WILL ship bikes to people who can't get to a dealer for one reason or another.
The Wis dealer can prep the bike, then re crate it and ship it to you worse case.
It wouldn't hurt to at least call and inquire.
Aaron
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Thanks for your suggestion, but after all the trouble with Zero I'd rather not buy a bike without having a dealership within a reasonable distance. It's not like a gas bike where any mechanic could do an oil-/filter change regardless of the make and model. I am willing to give Energica the benefit of a doubt and assume that they are better at providing service, but if that service option is more than 300 miles away it's basically useless to me. I'm not even sure how much hassle it is to register a bike in Canada that has been sold in the US.
Maybe one day if Energica decides to have a dealership network in Ontario I'll reconsider. Until then I'll just go back to gas. Also, just to be clear, I'm not bashing electric motorcycles. I'm calling out Zero as a manufacturer that can't or won't help. The reason I'm going back to a gas bike is not that I think EV's suck. It's because Zero sucks and there are no other viable options for me at this time.
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I recovered my srs a few days ago, but still this 3g connection which does not work.
they clearly don't know where it's coming from, they think it's a bad contact on the ccm connector, a wiring harness problem, I'm thinking about a software problem, but they say no, the problem appeared during an update V17 = V18 I believe.
after several emails, I only received responses from the United States, in Europe, they do not respond....
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hi,
the same for me.
They change the CCM begining of April. It works 2 weeks !!!
After it works only when key on, and now, it dosen't work.
They change the connector last week.. but nothing new...
The connector have power after key, and power before key (directly battery) : power before key is not coming ...
It seems cable problem ... but nothing news ... :(
perhaps a direct cable from 12v battery to ccm is the solution, but it is under waranty so, i still waiting, like the new battery, requested and validated in october 2022... fr june 2023 :(
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if I remember, there are 3 sons who arrive at the ccm.
I already thought about doing it, but my bike is still guaranteed grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I have a pdf on the starcom module, and I think I have found the positive son +, it will only be tried when the time comes, as a last resort.
whoever finds the origin of the problem will make the engineers from zero look like dummies lol
attached the link of the pdf of the helios starcom module
https://transfert.free.fr/PUxKkp1 (https://transfert.free.fr/PUxKkp1)