ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Vanessa on May 17, 2015, 09:53:16 AM
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I think my 2012 Zero S ZF9 has the motor problem described by others in recent posts.
Late last fall (soon after I had the firmware updated to fix the original "glitch") and again this spring (I didn't ride over the winter), I often had brief incidents (always on the highway, and usually at the same speed) when the motor would stutter, grind, and slow the bike a few mph. It was always brief, and I could usually get out of it by rolling off the throttle or accelerating. Then it was fine the rest of the ride. It always seemed to hit at around the same speed (around 60 mph at first), so I figured I just had to avoid going that speed. But then it started happening at other speeds (such as 65 mph), still at highway speeds. But nothing I couldn't handle.
Last Thursday, though, things got worse. It happened an extra time in the morning when I was accelerating while passing a car. On my evening ride home from work, it started happening at slower speeds than ever before, around 45-55 mph, and it didn't go away when I changed speed. And it wasn't brief. It lasted at least a minute or two. I was worried I'd have to pull off to the side of the road and wouldn't make it home. It was OK for most of the rest of the ride, but came back again near the end of the ride (again, on the highway).
These recent rides were all in Sport mode, so on Friday, I decided to go for a test ride in Eco mode, and it was even worse. It started much sooner into the ride, and at much lower speeds (around 25-30 mph). And this was much more of a stutter, and it really felt like I had no power. I stopped, turned the bike off and on again, but the reboot didn't help. I had the greatest trouble when I tried to go up a hill (again at 25 mph). I had a car behind me at that point, and I had to pull over because I was worried the car was going to run into me, because the bike felt like it was stalling.
I emailed Zero about it Thursday evening, and someone responded Friday evening saying that I need to take it to a dealer to get it diagnosed. The nearest dealer willing to service it is over an hour's drive away, and I don't feel comfortable riding the bike down there with it behaving this way, so I'm probably going to have to have it picked up and delivered.
Summer is just beginning, and now I'm worried (from past experiences I've been reading on this board) that I'm going to be without a bike until the fall, and I'm going to be out a big chunk of change to have the motor replaced. (My warranty is expired.) What's worse is that I still owe a few thousand dollars on the bike and am still paying it off.
For the past two and a half years I have been a huge advocate for Zero, singing the bike's praises to everyone who'd listen. (I even had a coworker buy one recently.) But this has me quite disappointed, and really bummed out.
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Congratulation
What says Zero to ???
These are isolated cases and the Machine has no guarantee ???? !!!
No one tip
Let the battery also equal with seal !!!
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Good luck. Keep us informed - it looks like Zero's service improved during past quarters...
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Where are you located? A lot of the customer service satisfaction also seems to ride on the dealer you go to. I have been fortunate to have had very good dealers and they took care of my issues effectively. Good luck!.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I have started a poll thread about this please vote if you had issues with your 2012 motor.
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Benswing, I live near Baltimore. The closest dealer to me is in Annapolis, but they refuse to work on my Zero, because I didn't buy it from them. (They weren't yet a Zero dealer when I bought the bike. At the time, the closest dealer was Eckenhoff Motors in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, more than 2 hours away, which is where I bought it.) The next-closest dealer to me is Coleman Powersports in Virginia. I had it there last fall for some body work after a minor accident, and they were decent. The work took way longer than it should have, but I think that was mainly because it took a really long time to get the parts from Zero. Anyway, that's where I'll have to take it to get this issue diagnosed.
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Just to say good luck, Vanessa. My 2012 S has not had the motor glitch, but I am beginning to consider myself fortunate.
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Benswing, I live near Baltimore. The closest dealer to me is in Annapolis, but they refuse to work on my Zero, because I didn't buy it from them. (They weren't yet a Zero dealer when I bought the bike. At the time, the closest dealer was Eckenhoff Motors in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, more than 2 hours away, which is where I bought it.) The next-closest dealer to me is Coleman Powersports in Virginia. I had it there last fall for some body work after a minor accident, and they were decent. The work took way longer than it should have, but I think that was mainly because it took a really long time to get the parts from Zero. Anyway, that's where I'll have to take it to get this issue diagnosed.
You might want to inform corporate of that attitude.
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It took almost a month to get a diagnosis, but I finally got the word today. It's what I expected. Zero says I need a new motor. And because I'm out of warranty, they are not offering to help at all.
The estimate I got is that the motor will cost $1,000 and the labor will cost a little over $600, with a little more for taxes and parts. So the estimate to get this fixed is just over $1700 total.
I am not happy.
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I have a 2012 XU with a little under 5K miles on it. Early on had fork seal problems which were all handled under warranty.
The bike was the last one sold by dealer here in Vegas before they stopped being a Zero dealer. No other problems until
recently, I started getting a few errors. Hollywood Electrics now has the bike, was told that it would need a new motor.
I was hoping that because there was so little interest in the XU, and, so few sold that they might lemon the bike and
credit me towards a new one. No such luck. New motor has been installed, and, ready to go. All under warranty
with a fairly short turn around time.
I know that any forum is going to show more complaints or praise than general public sees, but, I figure that good
service should be noted as well as bad.
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I was reading the NHTSA web site this morning and under their requirements for motorcycle manufacturers is an obligation for them to fix safety related defects for free. A lone female stranded on a freeway would maybe fall into that category.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/maninfo/mcpkg002.pdf (http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/maninfo/mcpkg002.pdf)
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Anyone stranded alone should be a saftey concern. A motor bike should be usable for at least a decade.ICE can achieve this if maintained, zero is pushing low maintance as a selling point, but having to replace motors and battery packs on older models proves they are not low maintance or reliable. The glitch was a major problem and resulted in major recal for fixing. Very bad of zero to make customers pay for a bad motor and battery design.
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That's a bold statement
Yes a battery or motor is expensive but last time I check a gas motor and tranny cost as much as a motor and a battery on some bikes equivalent in cost to the sr
And in other cases the fx
Motor for motor they are cheaper, if you go buy a new motor from zero 1500 ish lets just say for a 15 mx
Then take a Honda 230 or 250 4 stroke rebuild or even better replace the motor and tranny unit, even a good rebuild heads adjusted etc....good luck getting all that BRAND NEW for less than the zero motor
O and wait you HAVENT done any regular maintenance besides change your brake pads tires no oil changes none of that crap
I like playing devils advocate no one ever says these things on this forum and in real-life
yes if you go buy a beater bike a cheap motor is, cheap, you can find junkyard motors for dirt all day but you can't compare somebody who's buying a beater bike and putting beater reliability miles on it, to somebody who's buying a brand-new bike. Completely different demographics of the market one is a grown person typically in one's a kid or somebody who doesn't have the money, just getting into motorcycling , maybe just wants a bike that they can beat the hell out of and let's face it you're not going to go buy a brand-new CR 250 or any other brand new shiny bike equipment cost to an electric zero ....
The only people who buy brand-new bikes in using beat the shit out of them for motorcross racer's and let's face it zero used to give motorcross racer's bikes for some reason they lamed out I hope they read this shit to
There are lots of videos of zeros early zeros on top of that 2012's smoking open classes on Monday to rain this and that lots of trials riding even some modern people who modified them a little bit in racing them for instance Preston petty. If they supported the racing part of the sport like they used to my get them somewhere because let's face it almost everybody who rides is into racing or into watching the races. Plain and simple most motorcyclists are gearheads or some type of it they like going fast they want the adrenaline rush of two wheels and typically speed has a lot to do with that when you make a product it's fast you should use it is such; or support people who do to further the market like they say is their goal. We'll show me..... Name a motorcycle that isn't modified and raced
Well unless you're me and I don't fit into any of those demographics above
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Anyone stranded alone should be a saftey concern. A motor bike should be usable for at least a decade.ICE can achieve this if maintained, zero is pushing low maintance as a selling point, but having to replace motors and battery packs on older models proves they are not low maintance or reliable. The glitch was a major problem and resulted in major recal for fixing. Very bad of zero to make customers pay for a bad motor and battery design.
I am sure there are many on the forum that may have sympathy with that statement but I am surprised that no one has tested this idea in Court especially in the Land of Litigation. I am surprised that there havent been a lawyers firm trawling this very forum for participants in a joint action.
For Cortez's comparison between ICE motors price and electric motors being cheaper, I am not sure the comparison is equal in that for a gasoline bike you would probably replace the bores and pistons and valves and to a greater extent the ICE engine is replaceable in its parts. Our electric bikes with the glitch are so finely tuned that just a fraction of deviation on the timing or a bit of condensation on the potting will cause them to fail. To have designed a bike to shut down when the timing goes out of parameters is a DESIGN PROBLEM. If this were the timing on a ICE bike it would just run below par or at worst detonate and hole a piston, but you would get a warning first not just be stranded in the fast lane as you tried to overtake a truck. If it were a car it would simply show the orange triangle and go into limp home mode so we can see that there are other more sensible ways of dealing with a machine that is seen to be operating outside its given parameters than just cutting out or running backwards.
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C'mon Cortez - how many modern ICE bikes that cost what Zeros do blow a motor in just over 2 years? What other company making motorcycles today have a record of 2 in 3 bikes having a problem - remember the "demographics" survey?
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/11R6MQTB4p8s7xGEKrwTEsIigJCayqZ9zUuuwA5X95FE/viewanalytics (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/11R6MQTB4p8s7xGEKrwTEsIigJCayqZ9zUuuwA5X95FE/viewanalytics)
Your comparison is ludicrous.
I realise that there's a general view here that - what was the saying - early adoption isn't for sissies? - but how many years have to go by for the "early adoption" argument to wear thin? And shouldn't Zero just admit that they're expecting customers to be beta-testers, if that's the case? And if it's not, maybe Aaron (or someone) from Zero can enlighten us?
One of the lessons of the 2012 motor issues is that you'd be a mug to take out a loan to buy a Zero, unless the loan is for no longer than the warranty. Otherwise there's every chance that you'll end up paying for something long after it's broken.
As Zero's website says, " Zero Motorcycles creates a superior riding experience with its transformational line of electric powered motorcycles. Our people are driven by innovation, charged by passion, guided by integrity, and measured by results.
With an unwavering focus on quality, we are committed to delivering exceptional value, performance, and fun for our customers and partners worldwide."
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/company/ (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/company/)
yeah right
Peter
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There are only 14 2012s in that survey.....
I've owned more than that; all pre 2012's ..... And never had any issues
I didn't find it necessary to enter any of my bikes on the survey.... Sorry would take me way too much time
12s are the dud years. It sucks I have a few with issues as well, but the fact is I've fixed more zeros than most people have seen.... So you can think my ideas or thoughts are ludacris but I don't give a shit, I know what it takes to work on and replace parts one all of the x platforms....
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Moving back to the thread -
Good luck with whatever you choose to do Vanessa.
Peter
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Thanks, Peter. I haven't figured out what I'm doing yet. I feel like my bike is being held for ransom. I can't really afford to pay for the new motor. But if I don't pay, I don't have a bike.
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How have you tried conctacting zero? Who did you speak to? Did you let you dealer so the talking for you?
I would try contacting zero directly see if you can get them to give you a deal on the motor, and then talk to the dealer and make them give you a separate dealing on the labor, every little call might help....
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I had been in email contact with someone at Zero before I took my bike to the dealer, so I'd emailed him last week to ask whether there was anything Zero could do to help me out. I hadn't received any reply after several days. So I actually did call Zero directly a few days ago, and GOOD NEWS! They are agreeing to pay at least half of the cost. They said they might cover the whole thing if they find that the problems started while the bike was still under warranty and if they can get confirmation from the dealer that the bike is in good condition. That was a couple days ago. I'm still waiting to hear that verdict. But at least I won't have to pay for the whole thing, which will really help me out financially. I am much relieved.
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Sounds like you have a cheap ish fix then possibly...
Please post when you hear more!
hopefully it all works out soon!!!
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I would call and be that squeaky wheel with the dealership and zero to get them working swiftly to fix the problem; so far it seems like they have. I hope to see this continue, It's been happening more and more.
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Vanessa:
Coleman Powersports in Falls Church replaced the motor on my 2012 DS. I've ridden over 8k miles since then with no issue.
Note: It did take over a month from the time I dropped it off until they called to say it was ready. But I am pleased with the results. (If it makes you feel any better I'm 4.5 hours away from Coleman.)
Good luck.
I had been in email contact with someone at Zero before I took my bike to the dealer, so I'd emailed him last week to ask whether there was anything Zero could do to help me out. I hadn't received any reply after several days. So I actually did call Zero directly a few days ago, and GOOD NEWS! They are agreeing to pay at least half of the cost. They said they might cover the whole thing if they find that the problems started while the bike was still under warranty and if they can get confirmation from the dealer that the bike is in good condition. That was a couple days ago. I'm still waiting to hear that verdict. But at least I won't have to pay for the whole thing, which will really help me out financially. I am much relieved.
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Thanks for the info evdjerome. It's been about six weeks since the bike was delivered to Coleman Powersports. It took them almost a month just to give me the motor diagnosis. I'm still waiting to find out whether Zero will pay for the repair in full, or just 50%. I called Zero yesterday, and it sounds like they are still waiting for Coleman to give them the info they need to make the determination.
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I had the motor problem at the beginning, so at the time the dealer fix it with epoxy :o.
He told me he was not impress by the quality of the 2012 motor. In all case i have now 6100km on the bike and no other problems,
i do not push it tow much over 130km/h you can feel the thing doesn't like it too much....
Regarding patience and waiting i had my dose .2 week once 3 week twice . and now i am still waining for my zero xu for a power pack replacement since September 2013...
Note to say i have 2 Zero , one S zx9 and one xu 2012.
I notice that dealer do not know much about electronic and power pack.
Sometimes to resolve a small issue it take a lot of time.
Good luck .
Fred
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Hi Vanessa
I have almost the same issue on my 2012 SF9,
My story start back in last october with the software upgrade, like you I had to go twice at the dealer because the update didn’t work and of course the dealer is at 1 hrs drive from home.
I spoke with somebody at Zero about my issue because even after the second firmware update I still have the stuttering issue and since the winter is at our door I didn’t have the chance to go a third time to the dealer, but I want them to know that I still have the issue.
Anyway, that guy left Zero and I didn’t get news from them anymore.
At spring when I took back my back, I though “magic though†that everything would be normal but it became worst and worst.
Sitting on my bike at home ready to go and ……. F**k, my bike went on reverse for about 4 feet, I almost fell down so I wait for 1 hrs and then tried it again. But after that, don’t know why, for some reason the bike want to go on reverse here and there, even on the highway at 100km/h (60 mph) it try to go backward…. That was the last time I took it.
When I contact Zero again, they told me that the guys who was taking care of my file is no longer working for zero and Aaron Cheatam ( Director of customer Experience ) took over and he told me to send my bike to the dealer.
That was 7 weeks ago.
Since then, every week I’m calling Zero and the dealer to see whats going on but both are telling is the other doing nothing.
Yesterday I’ve receive and email from Zero :
Hi Dominic,
I am sorry it is taking so long to get the issues resolved with your 2012 Zero S. Per the description, I have asked Zack to follow up with the team at Newman Motorsports to see if the motor was successfully re-commissioned. Otherwise, I think the next step would be to consider a motor replacement.
Zack, please work with the team and Newman to ensure we get an update to Dominic quickly.
Regards,
Aaron
Zero Motorcycles, Inc.
>:( >:(
But the good thing is i'm still under warranty, now let see what Zero will do !
Dom
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Hey Dom, i'm in Quebec and i believe that you are in Montreal right? ( Newmans motorsport?)
I also have a 2012 S ZF9 and had that glitch problem. Fortunatly i have high skill in electronic and i am familar with the Zero architecture and i'm helping my local dealer to solve many technical problem for his clients.
I got my motor ( model me0913) sent back to Zero for repair ( fix the encoder problem) and reinstalled it and recomissioned it and it worken fine after that.
But few month after i modified my Zero and installed a 2013 motor on it. Now i still have this Me0913 motor sitting in my garage that is like new. If your dealer still have difficulty and continu to extend the delay, i could suggest your dealer to buy my repaired motor to fix your problem. If they are not familar to make the recalibration ( recomissioning) i can do that here for you, well i am offering you a faster alternative.
Doc
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Since then, every week I’m calling Zero and the dealer to see whats going on but both are telling is the other doing nothing.
What the hell. I'm in the exact same situation (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4738.msg32620#msg32620). One month down and both parties seem to be incapable of contacting each other.
When I call / email Zero and get a response straight away, ditto for the dealer. I've put them both in the same email thread with full contact details of each other and it's still been four weeks of nothing happening and both saying they're waiting on the other party. I'm pretty patient, if they were waiting on parts or something which has an inherent delay, no problems. But 4 weeks for two people to have a phone call and a remote desktop session is starting to get beyond a joke.
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I have great news! I heard from Zero today, and they've agreed to pay for my motor replacement in full! I'm so relieved. They said they looked at the logs from my bike, and although they couldn't tell definitively when the motor problems started, they did see many faults that were suggestive of motor issues going back a ways. So they said they'd replace the motor as a good-will gesture. It's been several weeks to get to this point (to just start the repair process), but I'm so glad to be able to look forward to riding my bike again sometime soon, I hope before the summer ends!
Dom and Phreak, I'm so sorry to hear that you're in the same situation and you're waiting so long, too. I definitely experienced some of that, where it seemed one party was waiting for the other. That's why it's taken this long. But progress did eventually get made. (Now I just have to wait for the parts to come in and the repair to be done.) All I can suggest is that you continue to periodically check in and give them a nudge, so they don't forget about you. Please keep us updated on the progress. It's really unfortunate that we have to suffer through these motor issues. I know all we want to do is get out and ride!
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Patience is not your friend when dealing with repair shops. Either it is actively being working on or it gets shoved into a corner and forgotten about.
Keep pestering them to make sure they are making progress and ask what the next steps are and when they will be completed. If they are waiting on parts, etc., from zero, you should be pestering Zero during that time. Use your judgement for how frequently to contact them, every few days seems reasonable to me. Getting the tracking number when "the parts were shipped yesterday" can save you a few weeks of waiting in case the parts didn't actually get shipped. You will also know when to start pestering the dealer again.
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Thansk Doc
I'll check with them this week, i think that we bought our bike at the same day a the same dealer, l'amis Denis in Sherbrooke, you took the demo 2012 and i bought the new one !!
Am i right ? :D
Since my bike is still onder warranty, i did not modify it yet, but maybe i should change dealer and go to yours, service would be better..... anyway if their is something wrong i'll PM you Doc.
Preak ... what can i say, it's sad for both of us... lets see what they will do, maybe next time i call, i'll say something about your bike too ;D
Vanessa, very glad for you that they payed you a new motor, finally.
Maybe we should tell Zero to read this forum to repair their bike.
Dom
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Great news Vanessa. Congratulations. It's good to hear when Zero get it right. As with the 2012 battery issues, it seems to me that the motor glitch represents a serious safety hazard and should qualify for a free fix for all affected.
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Bad news
I called zero to have an update on the motor replacement delevery, they told me that they order 25 motor from their chinese supplier but he did not return
any shipping date yet. China to LA then QA stuff at zero then ship to Montreal........
So i've cancelled my licence plate for this year..
I'm F..... mad at Zero >:(
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A new engine from China !!! ;D The next engine damage preprogrammed 100% :'(
Ever heard of Heinzann engines? Used by Brammo / KTM and Peugeot (German Quality)
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zero does read this forum , i got a nasty email when i was upset about waiting 6 monthe for my new motor, and posted "negative" comments. both the bikes i bought from them are pieces of crap, and i learned my lesson the hard way not to buy new and untested technology. I wish i could tell everyone that wants to buy an older model not to do it unless you're an electrical engineer and like fixing things that are inherently flawed to begin with.
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Ya, the motor glitch
I've been experiencing something very similar to Vanessa for a couple of years now, it only recently started to get a bit worse, wanted to go in reverse today, ended up rolling is forward several feet before the motor finally started working properly. The Tech at Zero I was working with also left the company
and my dealer 1 hour away is no longer carrying the Zero bikes, so the closest dealer is now 5 hours away, considering its a warranty issue I may ask the dealer to pick it up, does anyone have experience with Zero covering transport costs to and from the dealer ?
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Bad news
I called zero to have an update on the motor replacement delevery, they told me that they order 25 motor from their chinese supplier but he did not return
any shipping date yet. China to LA then QA stuff at zero then ship to Montreal........
So i've cancelled my licence plate for this year..
I'm F..... mad at Zero >:(
Well if you were ever thinking of upgrading your Zero to a more reliable model like a 14 now would be the time to talk to Zero about the possibility. Say to them, well if you can't supply a spare motor by such and such a date and my bike has had these problems as you now say since the warranty period, how about a discount on a newer better supported, better functioning bike. It doesn't hurt to ask. That is if you want that as an option. Otherwise I would think about Doc's offer of assistance now. When Zero looked at the problems I was having with a 2010 that died during warranty, at first they tried really hard to help me fix it and then offered a good trade in. Mind you many of the Zero dealers here in Australia, at first didn't seem to want to know about it....
Good luck,
Cheers, Cam
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Finally, i got my bike tuesday...... with the new engine, it's about time, this is what i have now (http://www.fastbikesmag.com/files/2013/12/WEBFBK276.mastb_.press_zero.jpg) :D
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It looks good. I am glad to see you got it sorted Nemo.
Cheers,
Cam