ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Magpie3469 on July 23, 2015, 10:04:48 PM
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So as I have detailed in other threads, I now am the proud owner of a 2010 GS with dead batteries and a possible controller issue. Does anybody know anything that I can do with it, given that I am NOT able to do things like put in new batteries myself? I would definitely be interested in the thing that people have done with leaf batteries to revive them, but have no way of doing that myself since I am not very mechanical. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated, otherwise I guess it will just go to the junk heap...
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3 months before I bought my first motorcycle (4 or 5 years ago) I downloaded the service manual and read it cover to cover a couple times. Then I went online and read the 'wiki' associated with the bike to learn of all issues, how to do things etc.
Previous to this I changed my oil myself once.
I got my bike home and the first thing I did over the course of a week was strip it down to the frame, then systematically clean it, reassemble it, and tune it to spec. I wasn't going to trust any used bike with my life less I set it up. I found myself buying more specialized tools which hadn't been gifted to me and becoming more knowledgeable.
After doing this I realized I can really do anything I put my mind to. (<< that is the lesson here)
If it were me I would do research into leaf transplants, buy a new controller, buy a new BMS (for the leaf cells) and go for it. You have several EV communities you can fall back on for advice. You have the Vetrix guys, the Emoto guys, the endless-sphere crew, and us.
If you can turn a wrench to remove an oil filter, replace an oil filter, and fill up oil to a set level you have the potential to do this IF you really want to learn how to do it. Empower yourself and stand on the shoulders of those around you who want to liberate your mind.
Other than that ... sell it to someone who will convert it to a leaf pack. OR pay someone to convert it to a leaf pack.
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Others have replaced the cell pack using Nissan Leaf packs, they have same voltage so BMS and charger will work with them. They also weigh less than original packs and have less voltage sag under load.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4498.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4498.0)
Don't junk it, at least sell or offer it free to someone who is willing to upgrade it.
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Thank you both for responding, and for your suggestions. Burton, I share a lot of your sentiments, and have done many such things in the past. In fact, the thing that got me excited again about an EV is that I just installed a 9.6kW solar array by myself. Like you describe, I spent several months researching the feasibility of someone who knew nothing about electrical work doing such a project, and despite being warned off of it by many, found that I could and did do it with only help from the internet. However, time is limited, and I'm already on to other projects in my "spare" time, so I'm not sure if I am willing/able to commit that kind of attention to this. You have gotten me thinking about it, though, as doing the project with "just" replacing the batteries with the Leaf ones doesn't sound SO overwhelming. I had read that thread that Firepower linked to, and I just searched for Leaf batteries, but it looks to me like the supplier that people have gotten them from are out of stock, and I didn't see anyone else selling them. If anyone knows a way to get a hold of some, please let me know, or if there are other relatively simple fixes with other batteries I'd be interested in that too. Finally, if someone in Colorado has experience doing this, I'd love to consult with you, and perhaps see if you'd be willing to do it or help me do it.
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Looks like these guys are out of stock, probably the place that was sourcing modules in the other thread. You might email them and see if they expect to get more modules in soon.
http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=67&Itemid=620 (http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=67&Itemid=620)
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I emailed them, but no response yet. Found this on ebay, buy I'm guessing they wouldst woeful with the same bms?
Up for sale is 6 BRAND NEW Li-ion modules manufactured in Japan by LG Chemical for the Leaf EV, Renault, etc. Sold in quantity's of 6- 8VDC modules totaling 48VDC 66AH 3kw. Does not include terminal bolts, connectors and spacers shown in picture, which are optional. Listing is for the 6-modules only. Excellent for the replacement of 48VDC battery systems in golf carts, NEV cars, etc. Can be placed in series for additional voltages and in parallel for additional amperage. Maximum voltage for the 48vdc module is 50.4VDC and minimum is 36VDC. Nominal voltage is about 46VDC. Inexpensive BMS is also available from seller. Contact seller should you have any questions regarding this listing.
Use of a protection system (PCB/BMS) to keep the battery and its pack from over charging and over discharging is recommended
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I got an email back, and despite what the website says they still do have those modules in stock. Can anybody point me to a video or other Internet resource that would help me understand what I would need to do to replace the batteries with those leaf modules?
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This topic might be a nice start: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4498.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4498.0)
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Thanks, i have read that thread through a couple of times, but it's still hard for me to get a sense of the project and complexity. I'd love a brief overview of the steps if anyone knows that, and especially the more technical aspects, so i can gauge whether i could do it.
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Basically have to remove the battery, which entails disconnecting everything safely, then lifting game and bike over the battery or drop the battery down out of the frame,
Once you have the battery on a table you have to completely disassemble and then retrofit make brackets probably to hold the new leaf cells then connect all wiring back together accordingly and reassemble the battery then the bike.
It would take a skilled person who is knowledgeable about the platform a few days to complete this, 8hr days,
It can be done faster or slower but it most importantly you need to work at your skill level because you can easily short sensitive electrons or more importantly shock the SHIT out of yourself, and you will have high voltage wires and buss bars that you will have to tighten with a metal wrench, I highly reccomend coating most of your tools will some type of electrical tape or liquid electrical tape.
There are a few good write ups around on how to convert them, read a little more then make your decision
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Thank you a ton foot that; it's exactly what i was looking for. It sounds pretty daunting to me, buy i forwarded it to someone i know who has worked on ZEV scooters to see what he thinks.
I've searched for writeups and videos about the process, but can't seem to find any other than the one thread on this forum. If you can direct me to any other resources, I'd be grateful.
Did you do this process yourself? Are you happy with the results?
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Only few people have did this so documentation is really scarce. So be sure to take lots of pics for the next one that might try it.
It would take a skilled person who is knowledgeable about the platform a few days to complete this, 8hr days,
It can be done faster or slower but it most importantly you need to work at your skill level because you can easily short sensitive electrons or more importantly shock the SHIT out of yourself, and you will have high voltage wires and buss bars that you will have to tighten with a metal wrench, I highly reccomend coating most of your tools will some type of electrical tape or liquid electrical tape.
I would rather advise to get proper isolated tools for the job, the are not that more expensive.
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Ben at 300MPG has a nice series of article writeups about his conversion of an old Vectrix to a LEAF pack.
http://300mpg.org/2015/03/17/score-nissan-leaf-salvage-yard-battery-pack/ (http://300mpg.org/2015/03/17/score-nissan-leaf-salvage-yard-battery-pack/)
http://300mpg.org/2015/03/18/removing-the-nissan-leaf-cells/ (http://300mpg.org/2015/03/18/removing-the-nissan-leaf-cells/)
http://300mpg.org/2015/04/17/tap-stack-and-rack-leaf-vectrix-batteries/ (http://300mpg.org/2015/04/17/tap-stack-and-rack-leaf-vectrix-batteries/)
http://300mpg.org/2015/04/20/leaf-batteries-are-in-the-vectrix/ (http://300mpg.org/2015/04/20/leaf-batteries-are-in-the-vectrix/)
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Thank you for that. I will check them out today...
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I have seen Ben's Vetrix in person and I think he even had some more leaf cells. He really knows what he is doing. I would definitely reach out to him if you can. I believe I have his email address / business card at home I can message you later if you cannot locate a way to contact him.
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If you could get that I'd appreciate it. I used to own a Vectrix, too. You guys don't live in Colorado, do you? ;o)
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Thank you a ton foot that; it's exactly what i was looking for. It sounds pretty daunting to me, buy i forwarded it to someone i know who has worked on ZEV scooters to see what he thinks.
I've searched for writeups and videos about the process, but can't seem to find any other than the one thread on this forum. If you can direct me to any other resources, I'd be grateful.
Did you do this process yourself? Are you happy with the results?
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I did the conversion with help from a friend who was a maintenance tech for a photo lab for 20 years. It took us 10 hours, being very careful to measure twice and connect once. But after all that, the BMS wouldn't operate with the new Leaf cells. The pack is built correctly, and would work fine if I bypass the BMS, but I;d really like to have the BMS for safety, since the built-in charger is pretty powerful, and without the BMS monitoring, the cells could charge unevenly and overheat, even to the point of being dangerous. Another guy I met with a 2009 Zero X helped me understand how to bypass the BMS, but to be safe, that means buying a less-powerful charger to make sure none of the cells overheat and catch fire. For now, though, I'm still trying to get in touch with Luke, the battery guru up at Zero, to get some help figuring out how to reset the stock BMS to accept the new battery pack. No answer yet, and for that matter, no answer from Zero's tech support after three weeks and two emails. I'd have been OK with a simply 'No, we can't help you with your non-stock set-up, but instead I got no answer at all. Not sure how that is supposed to keep people stoked on them, but whatever...
Bottom line, if you don't mind taking the time to figure out the particulars, it can be done. I still need to post all my pictures from the swap. I took lots.
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Could it be the cell are out of balance and beyond level that BMS can work with. Have you tried manually putting a small load on the highest voltage cells to bring them down to same as others?. Until all cells same voltage. Otherwise I try and contact the guy in the links above who successfully got it all working.
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Does anyone know of any resources in Colorado to either check out the batteries in my 2010 DS or help me convert to leaf batteries? I would gladly pay for their time.
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Trade it in for a new bike:
http://insideevs.com/zero-motorcycles-offers-early-adopter-upgrade/
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I realize I'm a bit late with this advice (I've been busy with a newborn lately), but as you said, you've got other projects... There's only so much time in the day, and so many days in your life. It's not that you *can't* do it, or even that you don't *want* to do it... The question is, do you want to do it more than you want to do other things?
Sell it to me for cheap, so I can build the streamliner I want to build without chopping up my 2015 SR! ;D
(In case it's not obvious, this whole note is very tongue in cheek - I encourage you to chase it... But I understand if you don't want to, and am half-serious in my offer to take it off your hands, if the price is right.)