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[heroto]

MVetter: yes track days! There are lots of posts about this, youtubes etc. The SR/F doesn't have the overheating issues of earlier generation Zeroes. Of course at track speeds, the range is pretty short.
[/quote]

It definitely does. 2 laps max at Seca before thermal cutback. It's *better* than previous models but the battery is still functionally the same and takes a while to cool off.

And I am still waiting for one of these comparisons to include a bike from Energica, it is like they can't find a third person willing to ride an electric bike for a day 😉

MVetter, thanks for correcting me. I had not seen that before.
If you (or anyone else here) have substantial experience with the live wire, SR/F and Energica models, I would appreciate your knowledge regarding a good choice for a rider not looking for a sport bike, but rather for a relaxed and easy commuter and tourer.
Thanks

[MVetter]

MVetter, thanks for correcting me. I had not seen that before.
If you (or anyone else here) have substantial experience with the live wire, SR/F and Energica models, I would appreciate your knowledge regarding a good choice for a rider not looking for a sport bike, but rather for a relaxed and easy commuter and tourer.
Thanks

That is a short list, comprising here of probably me and Electric Cowboy. All of the bikes have their own strengths, so I will focus on those.

The SR/F and SR/S are solid machines. They traditionally excel as commuters, but with it now natively embracing J1772 you can definitely go out, burn the full pack down, enjoy a long lunch, and do it again. Level 2 stations are plentiful. The bike has plenty of power, and of course Zero has added all the fancy bells and whistles of Bosch with this latest version.

The Energica bikes have higher end components, more power, and natively embrace DC Fast Charging. On the previous model year you can fill the pack in ~20 minutes. With the new + models and their 21.5kWh packs you're looking at closer to 40 minutes on a full charge. But they have the most power, highest top speed, fastest charging, most range, and are cheaper than the SR/F Premium. They also do have level 2 charging. Both the inverter and the motor are liquid cooled.

The LiveWire is surprisingly well-made. Rider position is a little weird for my taste, like it can't decide if it wants to be sporty or more relaxed commuter. Yes, you're upright but I felt the footpegs were too high. Bike is well-balanced and handles well. Where it EXCELS is performance. Because they capped the top speed at 114 the thing is geared to haul like a rocket from 0-114. It also has the best performance at low state of charge we've ever seen. Every other bike we've ever ridden has noticeably reduced power near the bottom end of the battery. Not so with the LiveWire. It does, however, cost $30,000 and has very strange charging. Either wall plug or DC fast charge. If you plug it into a level 2 it will only go at wall plug speed. So it's either an 11 hour or 1 hour charge, no in between. The motor is liquid cooled as well.

In terms of sheer comfort I don't think you can beat the Energica SS9 or SS9+. Big, comfy seat. Upright. Relaxed bar position. Touring again has to go to Energica by sheer virtue of the fact that it has both the longest range and the quickest charging.

[princec]

Thought I'd better chime in on the weight issue as well, which is significant... I've not had the pleasure of riding the LiveWire yet though. The SR/F felt perfectly normal, weight-wise, sorta Bandit 1200 ish. The Energica SS9 felt like it was hewn from a block of tungsten, BMW R1200RT sort of weight, but squeezed into a smaller space. Oddly I didn't feel the benefit of the weight in the ride quality, which felt just as choppy as the SR/F. The LW as I understand it sits more or less exactly in between.

Cas

[MVetter]

SR/F is about 500 lbs I believe? Before adding in Power Tank or Rapid Charger. LiveWire is about 550 I think. Newest Energicas are about 600.

[heroto]

Yes, SR/F is just over 500lbs.

Per the websites, the SS9 has the highest seat at 31.9 inches, which could be an issue for riders with short legs and a heavy motocycle.

princep, thanks for the insight about ride quality, specifically that the SS9 has choppy ride quality like the SR/F, not a good thing on rough roads. I've played around a bit with my SR/F suspension settings which so far has not made a big difference.
As for the SS9, I wonder if the Ohlin's upgrade could offer a more plush ride, or if it's simply a matter of adjusting the stock shocks.

[MVetter]

Hang on a second... choppy ride quality? Explain what that means to you, please. Do you mean suspension or an issue with power delivery?

[Richard230]

Yes, SR/F is just over 500lbs.

Per the websites, the SS9 has the highest seat at 31.9 inches, which could be an issue for riders with short legs and a heavy motocycle.

princep, thanks for the insight about ride quality, specifically that the SS9 has choppy ride quality like the SR/F, not a good thing on rough roads. I've played around a bit with my SR/F suspension settings which so far has not made a big difference.
As for the SS9, I wonder if the Ohlin's upgrade could offer a more plush ride, or if it's simply a matter of adjusting the stock shocks.

Over the past 30 years I have tried Ohlins shocks on both Hondas and BMWs, with disappointing results. They seem to set up their shocks for a heavier rider than me for use on a race track and they never worked well for my light weight, solo riding on public streets - in spite of me requesting their lightest spring and softest damping. Unfortunately, Ohlins never seemed to have acted upon my request. 

[princec]

Suspension. I found both the SRF and SS9 to feel somewhat harsh. I was more surprised by the SS9, as I figured the weight would mean the suspension had an easier time of it. It could have just been set up for someone heavier than me (mind you I'm 100kg/14st or so, so kinda normal).

Mind you I am spoiled by my 690. And my X-Adv come to think of it. And 15 years on GSes...

Cas

[heroto]

Hang on a second... choppy ride quality? Explain what that means to you, please. Do you mean suspension or an issue with power delivery?

Suspension, see above replies.
I've had a few pucker moments on the SR/F. OTOH, on smooth pavement, it's a dream to ride.

[Crilly]

I live in the Milwaukee area, keep that in mind.  My SR/F has 3700 miles on it.  My Livewire has 5200 miles on it.  The Livewire has more even pull than the Zero.  Both are set up the same. Tour pack, heated grips, jacket heater controllers, pull back handle bars, and both have Zero touring windshields.  The SR/F had about 3200 miles when I bought the Livewire.

[KrazyEd]

I have a few comments on this thread, will attempt to keep coherent. As far as L2 vs DCFS in the U.S., L2 are plentiful NOW but, upcoming installs seem to be leaning towards DCFS.
Riding the Zero around town is fine with existing L2s. Attempting to take the Zero on the road can be iffy if DCFS or L1 are the only choices. I live in Las Vegas. There are hundreds of
L2s all over the place, most still free. I have been to two ribbon cuttings this year along the Interstate 15 and both were DCFS. One of our Senators leans Green and arranged to have
a Zero SR/F there for photo ops. There was nowhere for it to be charged ( 110 was there but not available to us ). In Mesquite where the latest DCFS was, there appear
to be more DCFS options than L2( at least 3 locations ). Fortunately, I brought my Bolt, so did not need to charge. There was only ONE SLOW L2 and a Tesla destination charger available besides the DCFS
( that we could find ). Most of the stations that charge a fee are similarly priced between L2 and DCFS. Per KW I would rather take an average break than a LONG one and get in more riding.
While the SR/F and SR/S spec to 12 KW, most L2s in the U.S. charge at less than 7 KW ( from MY experience ). If I am just going around town, charging with L1 at night would work.
Not sure if this is the same article that I read a week or so ago, but, they were surprised as well by the Livewire beating the Zero. I THOUGHT that I had read that the Livewire only had a top speed of
around 100 mph, which was far surpassed by the 1/4 mile time.
A week or so before that, I read where someone took a Livewire on some German roads and easily did the Iron Butt. The first leg claimed to be about twice the distance that HD claimed, so I agree
with poster above who said that they should be tested with multiple riders testing both bikes. I have been offered the Livewire for a test ride, but, with 3 Zeros and no intention of buying, I passed.
As far as price, A fully loaded SR/F SR/S isn't THAT far off of the price for Livewire entry. However, I don't believe that there is that much to upgrade on the Livewire.

[MVetter]

. I THOUGHT that I had read that the Livewire only had a top speed of
around 100 mph, which was far surpassed by the 1/4 mile time.
A week or so before that, I read where someone took a Livewire on some German roads and easily did the Iron Butt. The first leg claimed to be about twice the distance that HD claimed

LiveWire's top speed is, again, 114mph. The Swiss rider has little to no details about his ride available other than it went back and forth between two points 6 times aka not an iron butt. Also the math on the ride is incredibly suspicious. As I am quite familiar with the range and charging on the bikes what was reported is virtually impossible unless the rider had a big fat vehicle behind which to draft the entire way. Numbers just do not add up, and they won't get back to me with data and specifics.

[Crissa]

People aren't going to be adding CCS chargers to their homes or places of work any time soon.  They're just much bigger and more expensive than L2 AC as they require more physical hardware.

L1 charging should be sufficient for nearly all commuting, given enough charge points, but it will be frustratingly slow for anyone at the long end of a commute.  And having to add in a special stop to a charger is also frustrating, CCS fast or not.

-Crissa

[stevenh]

People aren't going to be adding CCS chargers to their homes or places of work any time soon.  They're just much bigger and more expensive than L2 AC as they require more physical hardware.

L1 charging should be sufficient for nearly all commuting, given enough charge points, but it will be frustratingly slow for anyone at the long end of a commute.  And having to add in a special stop to a charger is also frustrating, CCS fast or not.

-Crissa

I'll agree that Level 1 is "good enough" for most commuting.  At least it was for me with a 50 mile one way.  The bike would always be topped off a little after lunch on a normal day (2016 DSR, I get in early!).  Level 2 is nice to have though so that if I need to run an errand during the day (like running to the bike dealer, closer to work than home), it's not a problem, and I can go for an evening ride with full power a little over an hour after I get home from work, rather than not having that option with level 1.

I understand it's different in other areas of the country, but there are NO dc fast charging stations any where near my home, or near my office, and there won't likely be one in my garage any time soon either.  I can't see that changing overnight either.

Steve

[heroto]

I live in the Milwaukee area, keep that in mind.  My SR/F has 3700 miles on it.  My Livewire has 5200 miles on it.  The Livewire has more even pull than the Zero.  Both are set up the same. Tour pack, heated grips, jacket heater controllers, pull back handle bars, and both have Zero touring windshields.  The SR/F had about 3200 miles when I bought the Livewire.

Heated grips on the LW, how did you do it? The dealer I test rode with says not an option.