ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Spires on July 31, 2012, 09:18:06 AM
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My fear is the bikes are just going to get heavier.. I doubt anything with the motors as they just switched to these regen friendly types.. Battery? Unlikely.. New model maybe? possible, I've been bugging them for years about making a stripped down DS version that is light, fast and dirt oriented.. My 2011 I bought strictly to strip down and use in the dirt worked out really well.. IT just lacks about 10-15 miles of range as it tops out at 30miles.. The newer ZF6 would do it and keep the bike weight the same as mine.. THe ZF9 would be about 300lbs stripped down.. Just too heavy for hard dirt riding.
So thoughts on 2013 bikes and if I should wait... I want a bike now haha..
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I don't see how it can get lighter really. Looks like to get more speed they need to water cool the motor and battery, plus increase the battery size for more range. Looks like more weight to me too. They could just continue to have an air-cooled, light-weight bike as an option though, but it won't be their showcase S bike. That will be even more expensive of course. I think $17999 with an advertised range of 130 miles and 100 mph with sustained 85 mph. I don't think they will go to gears so the acceleration won't be quite as fast as the Empulse, but still better than the 2012. The 2013 S with the ZF 10 battery will still be 40 lbs less than the Empulse. New motor, new cooling system, new battery pack, everything else pretty much the same, 45 lbs. heavier than the 2012 S model.
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Yeah.. That is where its heading isnt it? Heavier bikes... Electric is so nice for dirt riding... I cannot explain it unless you guys rode my bike in all the nasty spots I've hit with it.. I will try to get some nice video of the bike in action and post it here for everyone to see. For dirt riding its not just the bike but the 2 hours of cleanup and maint. after every ride. No air filters, no oil filters etc.. I swear my KTM was wonderful to ride but all the expensive oil changes, lubing and air filter maint. was a pain! I get on the bike and go! I live in the pacific northwest and it can get COLD.. NO more warm ups, no stalling, no gears just HIT IT! When Im done I park it haha.. Every now and again I wash it down a bit and lube the chain.
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I agree! Electric is the best for dirt riding. That's what I mainly use my 2012 DS ZF6 for and the 2010 DS before that. I haven't stripped either of them down but I admit it is tempting. I'd love to have it lighter especially since my 2012 is 20 pounds heavier than my 2010.
I have said many times, since I started dirt riding ZEROS, that when dirt riders "discover" electric they will want to switch from gas. I don't ever want to take a gas bike onto the dirt again. 8)
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You can do a fair amount of stripping down before you begin "cutting" off stuff haha.. I really went at it! I removed and modified everything.. There are a couple other things I'd like to do but I think I'd rather have a ZF6 with the 50% more battery to make it worth it. I suspect a 250lbs ZF6 would achieve a steady 40-50 mile range of hard riding, which really is a good days range of riding.
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I've been bugging them for years about making a stripped down DS version that is light, fast and dirt oriented..
Isn't that the X?
IMO 2013 will have standard J1772 + faster 2-3kw charger. I think they will keep the existing ZF3 / ZF6 / ZF9 battery packs, system voltage, and motors. Cooling may be improved. Highway range will go up a bit, may offer aero fairings on the S. Prices will drop a bit.
We may see a super sport "halo" offering. Could have a ZF12 battery, standard aero fairing, dual Agni maybe.
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I had a Xero X with an '11 battery and it got about half the rang my DS gets.. It's also less powerful. Maybe the 2012 MX would be lighter and faster for dirt but it really is only geared up for track riding.. Im sure trail riding would be fun with it but at only 15-20 mile range it is pretty much useless to me. So it really is looking like a stripped down '12 DS ZF6 is the sweet spot for some nice 40+ mile trail riding..
I'd entertain a ZF9 but the weight.. ugh.. I could not imagine wrestling that beast around on a nasty hill.. they need a DS Dirt ZF6 fully rigged for dirt..
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I think the base price ZF6 and ZF9 will stay about the same, but a lot of options will be available to purchase to compete with the only option on the market next year, the Empulse, which will be between $16k and $18k
So much development went into the batteries and BMS system, I think this will stay the same for another year. It's a great setup. Perhaps half the 40AH pouch cells from EIG vs twice the number of 20AH cells to slightly reduce weight would be the my only guess as they're a little more wh/kg.
For the flagship Zero S im looking for:
1) A more powerful Gen 4 size 6 Sevcon controller upgrade option
2) Better motor airflow at freeway speeds when the only real overheating occurs, perhaps with special ducting
3) An aerodynamic fairing option
4) A specificied mounting postion for the J1772 upgrade option
5) A BMS that will support up to the same 4kw charging for the ZF6, but allow up to 6kw for the ZF9 (same exact C charging rate)
6) LED head and tail light factory upgrade options
7) A higher mounted kickstand and options for rearsets that allow higher footpeg mounting
8 ) Use of a higher density kw/kg wide range voltage, sealed weather proof charger like an Elcon PFC 1500 or 2000 or other that communicates with the BMS enable circuit that charges at a full 1500-1875 watts (max output for a 15A 120V Standard NEMA plug)
9) An option to allow max regen in sport mode. Hopefully a fully adjustable regen option via the throttle. (you can twist as much regen as you want ---> letting go of throttle can give max regen or you can twist it just slightly to have progressively less, where free wheel coasting might require a 15% twist and acceleration begins to occur after 15% rotation.
10) A $1500-$3000 option to add up to 2 additional saddle bag ZF3 packs for up to 15kwh total on the ZF9, or 12kwh on the ZF6 that would have their own separate BMS board. And would simply connect in parallel to the + and - battery terminals on the Sevcon controller
11) A slightly longer or further rear mounted seat for more tie down area or passenger seat room
That's it. the 2012 Zero is such a great bike already, doing those things would make it even more attractive to potential new buyers or repeat buyers looking for something better enough to justify upgrading, so I expect to see some if not all of those available as higher cost options that are available for additional purchase in 2013.
Just my .02, i guess we'll find out in the next few months.
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I agree that lighter is better when riding off road. But for on-road riding, I would prefer a little larger frame and a weight of around 400 pounds.
I note that in the survey that was sent out earlier this month, Zero asked if you would be willing to pay an additional $2000 for another 20 miles of range. My guess is that the 2013 bikes will have a slightly larger batter pack (something like 10 or 11 kWh), a faster charger and a 240 volt level 2 charging option such as Brammo is offering for their Empulse. All of those changes would be fairly easy to do without sinking a lot more money into R&D and production cost.
What Zero actually does may have a lot to do with how the Empulse is received by the press and the purchasing public. My guess is that the Empulse RR will get a lot of favorable press, but sales will take quite a while to get pass the first 100 bikes. When you start forking out around $20K, that Aprilia, Ducati, BMW, Kawasaki, KTM, etc. super bike for that price or less starts looking pretty good.
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I love dirt riding but I'm not a "balls out" gonzo rider, so I'm fairly easy on the throttle (I'm also 77 which probably contributes to that riding style).
My dirt range on my 2012 DS ZF6 is about 65 miles! That covers just about all of the dirt rides I do. My riding is mostly SoCal desert and some Utah desert and CA mountain Forest roads. I posted on this forum the results of my big Klamath Forest road climbs (in June) where the bike far exceeded my expectations on range. When I get my handlebar lever switch done, to move between SPORT and ECO frequently while riding, my range should increase some. Especially if I get SPORT reprogrammed to eliminate all regen there so I can coast the shallower grades without any throttle.
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Wow 65 miles is awesome! I am a medium dirt rider and on my 2011DS I get 30miles max.. My poor 4kw battery just isnt as good as your 2012 6kw battery..
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My 2010 DS would get me about 38 miles in dirt so now with about 65 miles for the 2012, it has opened up a whole new world of dirt riding for me. I could not have done those Klamath Forest rides with my 2010 DS. If I ever had any doubts (I didn't) about buying another ZERO, less than two years after buying the first one, they would have vanished on those mountain rides. Its been over a month since I did those Klamath Forest rides and I still can't wipe the smile off my face ;D
BTW - In a week of daily riding different USFS fire-roads I never saw another vehicle or person on those roads.
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Wow 65 miles is awesome! I am a medium dirt rider and on my 2011DS I get 30miles max.. My poor 4kw battery just isnt as good as your 2012 6kw battery..
The 2012 MX batteries have new tech and seem at a range similar to the 2011 DS/S models.
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...IMO 2013 will have standard J1772 + faster 2-3kw charger. I think they will keep the existing ZF3 / ZF6 / ZF9 battery packs, system voltage, and motors. Cooling may be improved. Highway range will go up a bit, may offer aero fairings on the S. Prices will drop a bit...
That would be great, then I could use my 240V J1772 charger at home for a quick charge and still have the ability to plug into 110v at work. Thermal management of the battery would be a plus and it will make the battery last longer. I don't know how much people need heating of the battery but from reading around here it seems a cooling circuit would be a good idea.
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Of course the ability to charge faster is always good, however, I would like to see a change in the opposite direction - the ability to select a slower charging rate. I'll explain: I would like the ability to throw a switch and lower the charger to say something like 200 watts input power. Then when camped out with my bike, and my truck, I could charge all day from a solar panel. Often times I will devote a day to hiking or boating and the next day to riding. When I'm engaged in other activities the bike would be back in camp charging for the next day's riding. I've done this using a 1600 w gas generator but that is disturbing to the quiet, and I have to carry a gas can in the truck. Plus I don't leave that unattended like I could a solar panel on top of my truck. However, a 1 KW solar panel, to use with the present charger, is just too much to haul around.
I wonder if anybody makes a lithium charger that can be "turned down" to a slower charging rate?
Trikester
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I don't see how they're going to pull of another 2x range improvement as from 2010 to 2012. I hope the focus is on improving efficiency at higher speeds, the current weak spot for the ZF9.
An electric doesn't need six speeds but a second gear will improve efficiency on the highway.
(http://s18.postimage.org/rrgrtaeg9/singlegearboxchart.png)
Right solution: a two speed gear box.
Simple, light weight, but some power loss due to friction.
(http://s16.postimage.org/yr8728w5h/singlegearbox1.png)
(http://s16.postimage.org/ev7m8ypqd/singlegearbox2.png)
(http://s16.postimage.org/td4tgyh1h/singlegearbox3.png)
(http://s16.postimage.org/ktlfj78p1/singlegearbox4.png)
http://grabcad.com/library/2-speed-gearbox (http://grabcad.com/library/2-speed-gearbox)
Wrong solution: six-speed gear box.
Unnecessary complexity, weight, and power loss due to friction.
(http://s18.postimage.org/rhr69jcfd/sixgearbox1.png)
Not sure Zero can pull this off for 2013. Upgrades may instead provide an incremental range improvement and offer nice to haves like WiFi communications to support a range of applications, such as:
1. Programmable controller that you can tweak via an iPhone app
2. Maintenance schedule and service status with dealers and Zero
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I hear you on the 2 speed gear box. That should also improve your range at speed a bit too as an added bonus to a better torque curve.
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I don't think we'll see a capacity improvement, though improved aerodynamics could greatly extend range. I suspect they'll stay with the same system voltage for another year or two, at least for carryover models. The EIG cells are simply too large (ZF3 = 2p, ZF9 = 6p) to allow for small granular capacity increases, as they did with the Molicel cells in 2011.
Take a look at the two torque vs speed plots attached.
The BRD motor plot is really close to an idealized plot, eg constant torque until constant power.
Changing the gear ratio affects both initial torque before the taller gear enters constant power as well as the top speed in each gear.
The Zero is more complex - it is constant torque to a power peak and then power decreases gradually as RPM increases.
Changing the gear ratio affects not only initial torque prior to the power peak, but also where the power peak is located and the top speed.
In the Zero S example, the power peaks are located around 45 mph (short gearing), 55 mph (stock gearing), and 75 mph (tall gearing). Changing the gear ratio allows you to effectively place your power peak where you're riding .. sort of like you do on an ICE bike, only the power peak is typically about half of max motor RPM (3500 RPM for Zero, vs ~6500 RPM max) instead of near max RPM as on ICE.
I don't understand motors very well, but here's an intuition. I believe the BRD acts more like an idealized motor because of its higher voltage - like the race bikes. For any given power level, a higher voltage motor draws less current. Power lost to motor inefficiencies (as heat) can be roughly expressed as I^2 * R .. and R increases as the motor heats up. The BRD gets very little benefit from a transmission as long as it is above 30 mph or so; the stock gearing provides at least 65 mph speeds.
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Notice too that the BRD bike has more than 2x the wheel torque of the Zero S, at least until 35-40 mph. At 65 mph it's still +50% wheel torque.
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The Zeros now has excellent powertrains. I think it would be a good idea to focus on stability for the powertrain and avoid major changes. This is also important to minimise the risk for costly recalls.
My bet is that Zero will focus on styling improvements: LED lamps, lights exterior design, body panels, instrumentation, rims.
By the way: When will the 2013 models be presented?
Carl Anton
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The 2012 bikes were announced at EICMA in early November last year. EICMA this year is November 15-18 .. don't know if they'll repeat, but it seems reasonable to me.
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From personal experience with my first EV (Kewet CitiJet 5 1998 model) i know that good gear box design is not simple. Poor design gives problems with noise. A full gear box design where noise and stability is taken care of is a substantial investment. I doubt Zero will give priority to this.
With the exception of Tesla, almost all EVs on the market have opted for fixed gearing with good results.
Carl Anton
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For dirt riding, I like 6 gears. It it nice to have the right gear for the situation. Actually I like the close ratio gearbox of the 250F mx bike when geared down so first can be used for tough trails. The problem is that top speed goes way down. The E bike sort of has by default a no stall clutch even if it has gears, thats nice. I use 5 or 6 gears for offroad riding, well mostly the first 3 gears in trails. It is hard to believe just 1 gear will work well. That BRD graph has so much more torque than the Zero, but with lower gearing the Zero's torque can go up to try and find the BRD level. For offroad, I will never need or want more torque than the Zero? Then why does the BRD have more? Gears give some flexability to the vehicle to handle all the different conditions/situtations in offroad. City riding is pretty basic, so maybe 1 gear might be ok there.
I still have not ridden one of these bikes, and I think to really understand I would need to take it in some of the trails where I use the ICE bike. Being so conditioned to ICE engines and needing gears, it is hard to visualize something different. I am open to no gears, but I still think gears may have some good merrit on E bikes. Especially for dual sport bikes where they need both low speed offroad and high speed freeway capability. I think ICE bikes do not really do a good job with lowspeed offroad and highspeed freeway in the same bike.
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Notice too that the BRD bike has more than 2x the wheel torque of the Zero S, at least until 35-40 mph. At 65 mph it's still +50% wheel torque.
Fair point re BRD vs Zero torque curve. I guess my point is that generally all electrics have a similar curve that can maybe be improved with a 2-gear transmission, in theory.
(http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/325658-2/2012-zero-ds-vs-2010-zero-s.jpg)
Any way you look at it, Zero is doing a great job delivering more power at all speeds. As others have said here, as is apparently Zero's assessment, don't mess with success.
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Marshm, I'd be willing to bet that if you ride an electric bike on dirt trails you will never want to ride an ICE bike there again. That's what happened to me. I had no idea how much advantage an electric had in dirt riding until my first dirt ride on mine. The beauty is that there is always torque at any speed. I used to always be shifting because in the tight, slow parts of the trails I'd be in a low gear, then I'd come to a faster section and I wouldn't have the speed available in the low gear so I'd have to shift up to get speed, then back down again in another slow section. On my ZERO DS I can go slow with lots of torque and then just accelerate to a higher speed in an open part of the trail. Come to a difficult section just brake and get on the throttle. Come to a surprise very steep pitch just hit roll the throttle - no down shift. No stalling out on a surprise steep climb. Somebody asked me how steep it will climb and I answered that any hill it wouldn't climb I wouldn't want to be on.
Bottom line is: I think that any dirt riders that try one of these bikes will be sold on them for dirt trails. Unless of course if they love noise, shifting all the time, and a hot pipe when they fall. When my DS fell on my leg it was almost a pleasure to just relax and take my time getting up - nothing hot there.
Trikester
BTW - I'd like to electrify one of my dual-sport trikes ("Trikester" comes from the D-S trikes I've built). 8)
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For dirt riding, I like 6 gears. It it nice to have the right gear for the situation. Actually I like the close ratio gearbox of the 250F mx bike when geared down so first can be used for tough trails. The problem is that top speed goes way down. The E bike sort of has by default a no stall clutch even if it has gears, thats nice. I use 5 or 6 gears for offroad riding, well mostly the first 3 gears in trails. It is hard to believe just 1 gear will work well. That BRD graph has so much more torque than the Zero, but with lower gearing the Zero's torque can go up to try and find the BRD level. For offroad, I will never need or want more torque than the Zero? Then why does the BRD have more? Gears give some flexability to the vehicle to handle all the different conditions/situtations in offroad. City riding is pretty basic, so maybe 1 gear might be ok there.
I still have not ridden one of these bikes, and I think to really understand I would need to take it in some of the trails where I use the ICE bike. Being so conditioned to ICE engines and needing gears, it is hard to visualize something different. I am open to no gears, but I still think gears may have some good merrit on E bikes. Especially for dual sport bikes where they need both low speed offroad and high speed freeway capability. I think ICE bikes do not really do a good job with lowspeed offroad and highspeed freeway in the same bike.
If you want to see how an electric dirtbike compares to Gas bikes, check out these videos.
http://youtu.be/PHKXP_YA40s (http://youtu.be/PHKXP_YA40s)
http://youtu.be/1A275tyObkc (http://youtu.be/1A275tyObkc)
The second video is from a 6hour race, where the Zero MX competed in Open Expert class, and came 6th in the class and 16th overall (of a field of almost 80 teams)
-ryan
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For dirt riding, I like 6 gears. It it nice to have the right gear for the situation. Actually I like the close ratio gearbox of the 250F mx bike when geared down so first can be used for tough trails. The problem is that top speed goes way down. The E bike sort of has by default a no stall clutch even if it has gears, thats nice. I use 5 or 6 gears for offroad riding, well mostly the first 3 gears in trails. It is hard to believe just 1 gear will work well. That BRD graph has so much more torque than the Zero, but with lower gearing the Zero's torque can go up to try and find the BRD level. For offroad, I will never need or want more torque than the Zero? Then why does the BRD have more? Gears give some flexability to the vehicle to handle all the different conditions/situtations in offroad. City riding is pretty basic, so maybe 1 gear might be ok there.
I still have not ridden one of these bikes, and I think to really understand I would need to take it in some of the trails where I use the ICE bike. Being so conditioned to ICE engines and needing gears, it is hard to visualize something different. I am open to no gears, but I still think gears may have some good merrit on E bikes. Especially for dual sport bikes where they need both low speed offroad and high speed freeway capability. I think ICE bikes do not really do a good job with lowspeed offroad and highspeed freeway in the same bike.
If you want to see how an electric dirtbike compares to Gas bikes, check out these videos.
http://youtu.be/PHKXP_YA40s (http://youtu.be/PHKXP_YA40s)
http://youtu.be/1A275tyObkc (http://youtu.be/1A275tyObkc)
The second video is from a 6hour race, where the Zero MX competed in Open Expert class, and came 6th in the class and 16th overall (of a field of almost 80 teams)
-ryan
Watching the 1st video of a wet trail race, the MX advantage is that it's 50 lbs lighter for similar power. Doesn't bog down in the mud and can accelerate better in the mud.
The advantage is less in the second dry trail race where bogging down is not a factor.
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I'll bet that the 2013 DS will have a 17" rear wheel. If I buy another one I won't have to go to the trouble of modifying the rear wheel to 17" like I did on the 2010 and 2012 DS's. It's a pain in the ass to make the change and I'll be very pleased if ZERO finally makes a change, on the DS, that they should have made in 2011 or 2012. Hopefully if (when) they make this change they will allow enough swing-arm cross brace clearance for big knobby tires (that's the whole point in going to the 17" rim - broad choice of DS tires).
I had to cut away part of the cross brace to make the modification on my bikes. >:(
Trikester
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17" rear really is a must. I was just doing some window shopping on the internet and there really are no options out there for 16" DS tires. I hope they monitor the forum and listen to some of these requests/wishes!
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Even though the Kenda K270 17" tires are listed as rear tires I have a K270 4.6" x 17" on the front which works well and a K270 5.1" x 17 on the rear which works well.
A lot of dirt riders have said good things about the K270 series. I didn't know that when I picked those out based on looking at the tread and sizes. It's always good when other riders say I picked a good one 8)
Trikester
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Yeah trikester, those look the business ! A good set if you ride more than just the odd dirt road. Those look like they would work well on any loose trail. How are they on the pavement ? Much noise or wear showing up?
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Trikester you have a funny point on the hot exhaust, because many riding pants are made from nylon that melts pretty easy. I believe all my riding pants have a melted spot. Good points on what we encounter when riding offroad. In many trails, I am probably going from 5 to 25 mph, so if 1 gear can handle that range pretty well, then I think I might be better off not having to shift gears.
I have encountered that sudden near vertical step when going up hill. It is decision time, can 2nd gear handle it, or do I need to drop it down into 1st. If I drop it into 1st, will I will lose too much speed and not be able to make it. Almost no time to make the decision on a surprise obstacle. I kept it in 2nd, got the rear tire over the step and then stalled. It was too steep and loose so I slid backwards even though both tires were not rolling. Once that rear tire went over the step I fell over fast and learned elbow pads do not have protection on the back of your arm, tricept area. I sort of take that lightly now, but at the time I was actually quite angry, and thought I might have really damaged my arm pretty bad. E-bike would have been better in this case.
Now how about this theory. Gears on an e-bike would still give a choice to the rider. Even though I would not need to shift when riding a trail between 5-25 mph with just 1 gear, would I like to ride a certain section of trail using a different ratio? It is like changing sprockets, but I don’t have to change them, I just click the gear selector and now have a different drive ratio. Perhaps any of the 6 gears would work in that trail, but they will all work differently. With gas bikes you can’t use all 6 gears for the same trail. 6th will just stall out and 1st is just too slow. So perhaps gears can be used somewhat differently with an e-bike. Not as a necessity to make the bike go like with gas bikes, but as a preference thing.
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Marshm: you're correct, the gearbox on an electric bike is functionally exactly like a direct-drive transmission only with a selection of six sprockets.
No stalls at 0 RPM.
If you only are going 25 mph max in the dirt, you can drop to a low gear and get the greatest mechanical advantage. Control output with the throttle.
Gearbox is unnecessary if the single-speed gearing is the best for all the conditions you care about, or if you do not require both strong acceleration / wheel torque and a high top speed. The DS is a light offroad vehicle because of the lack of a gearbox; it simply can't tackle steep uphill sections. (So I've heard: I don't offroad at all, so a 8% road gradient is about as steep as I need)
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I've climbed some very steep dirt hills with my DS. Anything it wouldn't climb I wouldn't want to be on. My decision to change my rear wheel to be able to use a knobby tire was a hill I climbed where the stock DS wheel was spinning all the way up and I wondered if I would lose all traction before reaching the top.
However when I increased the rear wheel size and picked the drive train ratio to compensate for that I also went a little beyond just equal compensation. I selected a slightly lower ratio than stock. Plus the DS is already a little lower geared than the S.
I do hear the tires more on pavement than the stock tires so they are burning up some electrons. The Kenda K270's do have a good rep for long wear.
Trikester
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Zero Motorcycles Europe today informed me that they will show the 2013 models at Intermot Germany early October.
However, any 2013 Model will be available to buy in March/April 2013 earliest.
Carl Anton
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Intermot will also see the EU launch of the Brammo Empulse with delivery dates similar to the 2013 Zero's.
It will be interesting to see how the EU customers react to these bikes.
Intermot is both a professional and consumer show so it might be interesting to go!
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bummer, have been to several Intermots the last couple of years and this year - not. would love to see a shoot-out.
maybe we have some production Euro ebikes finally coming up ? not just concepts. Think of Audi winning the 2hrs LeMans with 1st and 2nd on etron cars, now owning Ducati ... hope they give the Italians a hard time to innovate.
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here we go.... :)
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Intermot will also see the EU launch of the Brammo Empulse with delivery dates similar to the 2013 Zero's.
Like how Brammo said they were going to eliver in 2010, 2011, may 2012 for june/july, and then again pushed back in june/july 2012 when they couldn't deliver again?
woah... what a surprise... they are going to re-announce it's launching... no shit, I knew the empulse was launching in 2010...
I hope they do actually launch something, because I would love to have another e-bike out there, but shit man they have been claiming to have the best production bike around for years and the enertia is the only thing they have produced, in 2009... and lets just say, thats not the best production bike around lol! You can't say a bike is production when you haven't delivered a single one.
I hope they get their act together and stop blowing smoke up peoples asses cause if they don't the remaining brammo fan boys and girls are just gonna pop in a smokey poof from it all.
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here we go.... :)
Wow Zero is partnering with Aprilia! Cool though what is the exhaust for? LOL ::) :D
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here we go.... :)
Wow Zero is partnering with Aprilia! Cool though what is the exhaust for? LOL ::) :D
The exhaust lets the used electrons escape. ;D
On another note, I was at my dealer chatting with the salesguy - he said he had talked someone at Zero about 2013 changes; and they told him it was going to be the same bike with only some improved software algorithms for regen and charging. Clearly a rumor, to be taken with a grain of salt.
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I'll planned to use the exhaust for the air in take to cool the motor ... :)
well spotted that its from an Aprillia.
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I have said this before; I'll be very surprised if the 2013 DS doesn't have a 17" spoked rear wheel. :o
Trikester