ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: 2020_SRS_Commuter on March 31, 2021, 01:44:55 AM
-
I cant vouch for this as I have not needed a repair, but I watched a video from this company that repairs Teslas on YouTube and asked if they repair Zero motorcycle batteries, and he says they do.
https://grubermotors.com/
-
I cant vouch for this as I have not needed a repair, but I watched a video from this company that repairs Teslas on YouTube and asked if they repair Zero motorcycle batteries, and he says they do.
https://grubermotors.com/
I wonder of they also can do Energica batteries. But too bad they are in Phoenix, AZ and and not here in Reno. >:( Getting the battery out and shipping it to them sounds like a big hassle.
-Don- Reno, NV
-
What exactly do you mean when you say repair? You realize the pack is fully potted, right?
-
I am extremely skeptical they can repair modern >2013 Zero batteries. Older. non potted Zero batteries and Tesla batteries are not potted, and should be doable.
To get access to any of the connections or a cell in a potted battery you'd have to cut all the way in with a mill or something.
-
Maybe they have some sort of secret chemical that dissolves potting goop without damaging the cells. ::)
-
A non-polar solve t could do that, theoretically. Like orange oil. But yeah, sounds like a pain. And Tesla packs are filled with goo, too.
-Crissa
-
All I can say is they repair Tesla battery packs and they have Youtube videos about it. So I posted a question to the channel , do they repair Zero battery packs, and the guy replied back that they do. Maybe call them if you need such a service and he can explain it.
-
Got it, so the person responding to their YouTube channel is likely wrong.
-
I know you have good intention with that post, however i also listened their video and the "repair" they do is replacing deffective module from a serie inside the cell. The problem is that you have to get very well matched cells the same age , capacity and internal resistance to get long term good result.
They actually dont rebuild pack with new cells It is WAY TOO MUCG COMPLICATED and would cost million dollars in investment to get spotwelding machine, ultra ssonic welder and have acces to the fresh cells and maybe print with 3D printer some cell holder they would have scanned with some 3D lidar camera... etc
I talked to Mr Gruber himself about the last video of the authopsy of a Tesla Roadster battery slice and the cells are all glued with epoxy to the holder ... = nearly impossible operation to get bad cells out and replace them with teh matched cells.
I myself repair various lithium battery since 15 years now and the most difficult part is not find the problem.. it is to find cells that match the exact characteristics of the rest of the cells that are still good inside the pack.
It is possible to just swap deffective cells or cell modules.. however the "succes" wont last long aks the unbalance between the older cells and the new replaced cells will get more and more important and eventually the weakest link in the serie of cells willmake that battery with very low capacity
I like Gruber motor as they explain very well at a great rate everybody can easy understand, but a truely repaired pack that last long will not appear in the coming years in their garage i think.
Doc
-
Thanks for calling attention to this Gruber garage. i followed your link to their youtube list of videos and watched a few. I saw them find a faulty cell out of 5000 or maybe 7000 and just snip it free. I think there were 16 in parallel. It is a bit hard to discuss without the specific video clarified.
8 year warranty for Tesla
Proprietary aspect
replace component vs repair component
parts no longer available aspect
Tesla hard to deal with for parts but the suppliers they use are worse.
The one I watched the alternative was $20,000 parts and labor at Tesla for whole new battery. Would that have an 8 year warranty? How much to do their repair of isolate the bad 8+ year old cell and do their fix.
Hopefully the total cost of ownership crowd here (tco) watches a few of these. Wonder what they pay for Tesla vehicles that are not or harldy working.
-
Thanks for the education. So when the problem is a bad battery within the pack, what they are doing is making the pack have slightly less capacity by disconnecting faulty sections or batteries and leaving the rest intact? That way they wouldn't need to find a replacement that matches the current state of the batteries in the rest of the power pack?
I was imagining the thing as sort of like a gun magazine where the structure is re-used, and you reload with new batteries. Ah well. Too bad.
-
I was imagining the thing as sort of like a gun magazine where the structure is re-used, and you reload with new batteries. Ah well. Too bad.
Yes, but that would be more expensive. They probably do that, too, at least for the older battery packs.
-Crissa
-
I know you have good intention with that post, however i also listened their video and the "repair" they do is replacing deffective module from a serie inside the cell. The problem is that you have to get very well matched cells the same age , capacity and internal resistance to get long term good result.
They actually dont rebuild pack with new cells It is WAY TOO MUCG COMPLICATED and would cost million dollars in investment to get spotwelding machine, ultra ssonic welder and have acces to the fresh cells and maybe print with 3D printer some cell holder they would have scanned with some 3D lidar camera... etc
I talked to Mr Gruber himself about the last video of the authopsy of a Tesla Roadster battery slice and the cells are all glued with epoxy to the holder ... = nearly impossible operation to get bad cells out and replace them with teh matched cells.
I myself repair various lithium battery since 15 years now and the most difficult part is not find the problem.. it is to find cells that match the exact characteristics of the rest of the cells that are still good inside the pack.
It is possible to just swap deffective cells or cell modules.. however the "succes" wont last long aks the unbalance between the older cells and the new replaced cells will get more and more important and eventually the weakest link in the serie of cells willmake that battery with very low capacity
I like Gruber motor as they explain very well at a great rate everybody can easy understand, but a truely repaired pack that last long will not appear in the coming years in their garage i think.
Doc
It really is hard to stress how much this is probably the best post on this forum all year. I wish everyone would read this and take it to heart. Well-said, Stephane.
-
forse anno un magazzeno di batterie usate ma funzionanti aventi tante caratteristiche diverse , da poter inserire nei pacchi batterie da riparare usare
-
forse anno un magazzeno di batterie usate ma funzionanti aventi tante caratteristiche diverse , da poter inserire nei pacchi batterie da riparare usare
In English:
"perhaps it has a warehouse of used but functioning batteries with many different characteristics, that they can be inserted into the battery packs to be repaired"
-
That wouldn't work.
-
Yes the Zero cells are potted so full replacement is the only option at this time.
Perhaps in the future non potted cells could be replaced if BMS's could get good enough to identify the weakest cell and even if replaced with a new cell just limit it's charge and discharge to the health limits of the rest of the battery pack.
-
More likely, batteries will become cheap enough in the next 10 years that it will not be economically sensible to try fixing individual cells no matter what you try. At the rate things are going, it'll be under a grand for a 10kwh battery in a few years.
Cas :)