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Messages - NetPro

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1
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: SR/F only charges to 97%
« on: May 24, 2023, 09:25:44 PM »
My 2020 SR/F started doing this very same nonsense a few weeks back.
I thought it was due to aging battery cells but then, I updated the firmware to the latest and much to my surprise the charging issue was gone. I was only one version behind.

I charged it to 100%, which I normally do only once a quarter, and it went to 100% and even the following day was still showing 100.

I had a hell of a hard time upgrading the firmware because bluetooth would disconnect right in the middle of the upgrade but I kept trying different phones until I was able to get it done.

2
My 2020 SR/F developed a “blob” suddenly in its TFT when it was about 2 years old.
The spot affected was darker than the area around it and looked like very out of focus and of course, the colors looked very different as well.
It was about the size of a quarter, maybe a tad bigger and started quite suddenly, without the bike even falling or getting a rain shower or a wash. (Or parked in the sun for a period of time).

It literately was fine one day and messed up the next.
I did not want to see that ugly mess and ordered a replacement which I installed myself.
Quite an expensive part if you ask me and the fact that it went kaput just after the warranty expired was very unfortunate.
Hopefully, the replacement won’t suffer the same failure that quickly!

3
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: New dash firmware
« on: October 23, 2022, 11:52:04 AM »
If you end up with a spare dash then it would be interesting to take a look at it. If the microcontroller is something reasonable it could be possible to write our own dash firmware.

About a year ago, my dash suddenly developed a nasty "blob" close to the center that forced me to replace it with a new one.
The original one was firmware 5.5 (if my memory serves me well) and the replacement is 6.5.

I briefly tried to open it to see what's inside but it was very hard and I didn't have time that day and put it aside --and forgot about it-- until today, when I read the quoted comment.
So, after a lot of careful work to open it without destroying it, I managed to get the attached front and back photos of the board.
The only other thing inside the case is a small board attached to the back of the display, that has the ribbon cable going to the board.

The board was functional when I replaced it but I am afraid a drill bit went a bit too far and went through the board itself as seen in the picture (lower-right quadrant on the front photo).
I got frustrated after a tedious and long cutting all-around the case in shallow passes to avoid damaging the components.

That thing is designed to be very difficult to open and this one being the first one I opened, was a challenge.
Now, I could open another one in 20 minutes with no damage: experience is everything.

If someone with the right skill-set could write the firmware needed for this board to display things nicely (as opposed to the non-sense currently coming from Zero) it would be so very wonderful!

4
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Lower Belt Guard
« on: September 20, 2022, 07:01:55 PM »
Adding a mounting point is as easy as drilling a hole and installing a Rivnut. If the shape fits the swingarm I don't see why it can't work.

Mechanically, it should be possible to attach the guard to the swingarm of a different model if they are close enough in shape.
In addition to the Rivnut It might require getting/making custom spacers and or small brackets, if you want the best fit possible.
I would love to give it a try and would buy one right now.
Unfortunately, the only online catalog for the DSR/X I could find after a quick search was at af1racing and the link does not work: As of right now, the link to the 2023-24 DSR/X is there but not working.

Hopefully, the part number will be available soon and I will buy one and post the results.

5
Does seem to be a bit hit and miss with the longevity. TBH I wouldn't have bought one without the warranty. The thing I worry about most though are the chargers, MBB and BMS stuff going pop instead, as there's only 2 years on those (1 on mine, being an ex demo...)

Cas :)

Actually, the MBB went kaput on my 2 and a half year old SR/F and Zero replaced it without any resistance or I having to bend arms or do anything.
True, the bike had barely 2500 miles on it but the purchase date was well beyond 2 years. And it was a dealer-demo too.

The machine has been very stable since the replacement (about a month ago) and everything is working as it should as far as I can tell.

6
I cannot find a way to reset the BMS on the SR/F battery. Is there way to do it.

The system is shuting down before I can access it with bluetooth and the menu never shows up from the OBD access.

The display indicate SOC of ~15% but not sure. Is there some place I can messure with a voltmeter?

You have to remove the BMS cover (four bolts if I remember correctly) to expose the board, on which you will have to press a tiny reset button, next to a green LED.

Once you are looking at the board, you can’t miss the little button if you have enough light.

7
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Welp, finally snapped that belt
« on: April 01, 2022, 07:14:31 PM »
In my case, the area was repaved just a few months back and the surface was as smooth as they come. And totally flat too.

One factor that doesn’t help the longevity of these belts is the lack of a tight tolerance for the rear sprocket’s machining.

As mentioned by me in another thread on this forum, if you measure the roundness of the sprocket with a good caliper, you would find terrible highs and lows areas, as you turn the sprocket under the caliper.
Maybe mine was worse than most but I think the machining of this part is just poor.

I took my sprocket to an advanced machine shop to have two solid chain sprockets I had purchased to convert my bike to chain (to cut the big hole in the center and the 5 holes for the bolts to attach it to the wheel) and the machinist told me that when he “scanned” it with his machine —CAD— it showed to be quite off.

As an off-centric sprocket turns, the tension on the belt has to fluctuate and perhaps, on the bikes where this is more severe, the belt is more likely to snap.
This is pure speculation but something to think about specially if you keep the tension as recommended by Zero, on the high side.
I keep mine on the lower end of the range.

8
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Welp, finally snapped that belt
« on: March 31, 2022, 02:56:47 AM »
Just overtaking someone, not particularly fast. Belt had just over 7k miles on it. No warning or anything, just suddenly lost drive mid-overtake. Sucks.

I will ponder my life's choices as I sit by the side of the road waiting for the AA.

Cas :)
Your belt got you about 3 times as many miles as mine did.
A few months ago I was stopped at a red light and when it was time to go, the bike only moved a few dozen feet; barely enough to get me to the other side. And I wasn’t particularly hard on it, just your normal acceleration after a full stop.

I spent a lot of time and money trying to convert it to chain but for a couple of reasons decided to scrap that project.

Being that I truly hate the idea of being stranded again due to another belt snapping for no apparent reason, decided to buy the center stand for the bike (indispensable if you need to install a new belt on the road) a short socket drive that fits perfectly under the seat and the socket for the rear axle and torx bit for the belt tensioners.

After carefully folding a spare belt in half (have to be very careful there as carbon fibers are sensitive to rough twisting and one can easily damage the belt) and storing it in the bike’s cubby”,
I am prepared to replace my belt on the go if it happens again.
The only other thing I remember I added to my kit was a nail clipper to break the tie wraps around the electrical connector that goes to the tail light.

Once you know what needs to be done to replace a belt (at least on the 20 SR/F) it goes really fast; the design on these bikes have simplified replacing the belt a lot.

I think Zero used a belt one or two sizes too small for the torque on these bikes.
There is a Ducati with a massive belt I see in the showroom when I go to my Zero dealer for parts. Now, that is a belt that makes me envious and if it wasn’t an ICE bike, I would consider getting one. I like to see things engineered with “a marging for error” but I am digressing. . . .

9
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: 12v Battery
« on: February 15, 2022, 09:48:41 AM »
Did they say anything about passive cell balancing via built-in resistors in the AG-401 battery? I find it hard to believe that anyone would just group four cells without any cell balancing. That's just asking for trouble.

It does not appear it has any kind of cell balancing, as they would have added that to the response.

Here is the one-liner answer to my question:
"The small-case AG-401 does not come with a built-in BMS, so you would want to avoid draining it below 10 V. The smallest battery with a BMS is the ATZ7-RS."

It looks like size (and maybe weight) was the only important parameter when they designed that model.
What kills me is that Zero could & should have gone for the one with the BMS. There is room to design the battery holder about 1 inch larger, at least the '20 SR/F.
Not sure how much is the price difference but like you said, just soldering four cells together is asking for trouble, potentially after just a few months and very likely after a year or so.

10
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: 12v Battery
« on: February 15, 2022, 07:16:13 AM »
if I remember correctly, Zero recommends not doing that as it could interfere with the bike's electronics.
Very unlikely. They are concerned about there being too much ripple in the charger. Just don't buy the cheapest one money can buy and all should be fine. The old cheap ones from HFT put out a lot of garbage. I would stay away from those, but even those are unlikely to cause a problem. The battery itself makes a good filter for the ripple.


Besides, I don't think HFT now even sells the old cheap ones I am referring to. I think they broke part 15 of the FCC rules and no longer may sell them.


-Don- Reno, NV

I bet Don, you are correct and the crappy chargers out there caused problems with something on the bike and Zero issued a blanket statement warning not to use them.
I will buy a high quality one and have it ready for next winter. By the time the dealer returns my bike fixed (with the BMS problem) it won't be winter any longer in southern North Carolina.

I had sent an email to the Antigravity folks asking if the AG-401, (the battery they make comparable to what Zero is putting on the SR/F) had a BMS and the response was NO.
They said the smallest battery they make with a BMS is the https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/restart-oem/atz7-rs/

It is the same LifeP04 technology but it is quite a bit bigger: Just a bit over an inch thicker but it certainly won't fit in the little shelf Zero created for that purpose, at least not in my model-year.
Not sure I want to be monkeying around in the area where this battery is located, enlarging the drawer where it goes so, I will consider the charger as discussed earlier.
 

11
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: 12v Battery
« on: February 12, 2022, 12:19:45 PM »
What I would like to do is find a battery of the same technology (LifePO4) and same dimensions, with a BMS and replace the piece of junk.
As for the maintainer, when I get my bike back from the dealer, I plan to use a 24 hour timer and set it up to charge daily for an hour, maybe two, though, if I remember correctly, Zero recommends not doing that as it could interfere with the bike's electronics.
Maybe I will build an automatic switch, with a relay, that will disconnect the battery from the bike when being charged and restore the connection when the charger goes off.
Need to think about this and see if there is room for such a thing. Space is so tight on motorcycles.

12
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: 12v Battery
« on: February 11, 2022, 08:41:05 PM »


This is a bare-bones battery

The fact that so many people have had this battery fail is proof that something was not engineered right

The lack of a BMS, will explain why they're failing so often.

Indeed it does!
I opened one cell just now to see if there was anything inside (a long shot but possible) to provide thermal protection or anything of the sort, but there isn't.

This battery is as basic as it gets, folks: 4 cells soldered together and sealed in a case, not a doggone thing else (other than the heater stuck to the outside)  :(

Shame on Zero!

13
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: 12v Battery
« on: February 11, 2022, 11:49:40 AM »
Here are the pictures from my dissected 12 V battery.
The white sticker on pic 1 is the only in the pack but each battery has one of the light green one seen in pic 2, with the same number at the top and a different one at the bottom (serial number).

This is a bare-bones battery: Nothing to balance the cells, protect them in case of overheating or monitor them, as far as I can tell.
I have not opened the cells themselves but doubt the electronics for the above would be inside the plastic pouch, but I could be wrong.

I am not a lithium battery guru but I feel Zero should have a battery with more advanced features, if nothing else, to make it last a bit longer and make them more reliable. After all, when the charge drops below the threshold, the bike is out of commission.

The fact that so many people have had this battery fail is proof that something was not engineered right: Maybe is the logic programed in the bike's firmware that is not maintaining them optimally but I, like many others, have nothing extra hooked up to the bike that could potentially cause early failures.

The shell is quite sturdy; good quality plastic 1/8 of an inch thick and the posts appear to be brass and are pretty heavy duty fora battery this size.
The wires are 10 AWG and the soldering was done very well. (Hard to tell by looking at pics 3 and 4 but I can tell you this is some of the best soldering I have seen for a while)

14
According to the dealer, the BMS bit the dust and must be replaced.
Waiting on the part to arrive and see if anything else got messed up.

The 0% charge was bogus though. The dealer said they got the BMS to work for a few minutes and it was showing the actual charge. Unfortunatelly, it only lasted a very short time and went down again.

This bike only has 2650 miles on it and never been left outside.
Charging has been done following best practices recommended on this forum and scheduled maintenance followed to the T.

Could be just bad luck but I don't  think I  would buy another Zero.
That BMS is probably very expensive and the cellular module quit working a few weeks ago too and  would also need replacement  once the  main problem is corrected.

15
I got my replacement through a Zero dealer.
There are some markings on the cells but when I  google and bing them, got no real hits and I  tried entering just a part of the characters printed on the cells, as well as the whole thing but no cigar.
I did not see any balancing components on the battery but have not dissected the cells themselves. There are four cells attached by one end and two thick wires (look like AWG 8.) going to the posts.

Because this battery is 2 and a half years old, it would be imposible to measure capacity accurately. I have a West Mountain tester  that connects to a laptop and can analyze a battery pretty good but I  am sure it would give bogus info being that this battery is so old and have reduced capacity.

I go back home on Wednesday night and will post the pics then.

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