ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on February 26, 2019, 02:47:58 AM
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It seems like the SR/F analysis is pretty fast right now, so I'm making a separate topic just to track the technical knowledge and some observations. In particular, I'll also be tracking "unknowns" for the sake of soliciting owners to inspect their bikes for answers or ask dealers in case the new owner's manuals don't clarify matters.
First, here's press coverage and the specs page:
- https://electrek.co/2019/02/25/zero-sr-f-electric-motorcycle-launch/ (https://electrek.co/2019/02/25/zero-sr-f-electric-motorcycle-launch/)
- https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/zero/exclusive-2019-zero-sr-f-review-first-ride.html (https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/zero/exclusive-2019-zero-sr-f-review-first-ride.html)
- https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-srf/ (https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-srf/)
Known:
- The Calex 1200 charger is gone. The underside of the bike has an air scoop now to direct air to the motor whose fins are now axial vs radial. Honestly, it seems like this can be removed if the motor isn't run at peak performance levels.
- Charging (onboard) is either one or two 3kW (15A @ L1 or L2) units laid horizontally above the main power pack. L1 charging requires an adapter.
- The bike includes a J1772 (or Mennekes?) inlet at the base of the tank near the seat. The cover opens upwards and the plug is oriented towards the side. Potentially, that cover could be susceptible to damage, or the inlet might get some weathering (just something to look out for).
- The tank storage bin includes a dual USB plug for phone/GPS/etc accessories.
- 12kW total L2 charging is available as an upgrade analogous to (if not identical to) the existing 6kW Charge Tank that replaces the tank storage bin.
- The Power Tank has been mentioned in reviews, but I haven't seen any Zero representative or page confirm that.
- The LCD display is replaced by a full-color TFT display.
- The bike seems to have better designed external plastic paneling, and is likely to have much better ingress shielding and management than the S/X platforms.
Unknown:
- The firmware is now labeled "Cypher III" which is a bizarre branding choice. Maybe we'll learn some day what I and II were. We don't know what the architectural diagrams imply yet. There's some IOT mentions which are worth evaluating on a number of levels (security, reliability, relationship of the bike to cloud services, ability to service equipment, ability to recover from a "brick" condition).
- The motor controller's position or model. There are no cooling fins under the tail as there were for Sevcon.
- The location of the 12V battery or related subsystems.
- The location of an accessory charging port or diagnostic ports.
Happily, the frame does seem much more amenable to supporting a fairing. Tubes are easier to brace to without (say) making a weld, and it seems like the bike is made in a way that allows greater precision in dimensions for third parties to build on.
I haven't mentioned the marquee feature-set like increased power, traction control, cornering ABS, cruise control, better ride modes, etc. but they all seem as advertised and will just require some hands-on evaluation to fill in whatever the official manual doesn't cover.
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Power Tank: The specs page for the SR/F mentions that the 200 mile range requires the Power Tank, available spring 2019.
Motor Controller: There's a photo showing the components with Cypher III connectivity in the Effortless Control section. One part looks like it might be the motor controller. It looks like it would fit directly under the battery. It reportedly can handle 900 amps, and the battery can handle 1200 amps.
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Per:
- https://www.wired.com/story/zero-srf-electric-motorcycle-photos-specs-design/
This implies:
- The footpegs, turn signals (aside from coming with LEDs), and mirrors have not changed.
- The dash screen focused on durability+visibility and not touch-sensitivity. (I think this is smart.)
- The wiring harness routes look smarter for servicing.
Other observations:
- Dual front discs (forgot to note above).
- The stock tail sports bars for hooking or tying down cargo or for grabbing.
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From Motorcycle.com:
Motor and Controller
While the battery box is the heaviest component on the SR/F, the motor assembly comes in second. So, it was placed as low and far forward as possible to keep the center-of-gravity low. This placement also allows for the motor to be cooled without fans. Instead, the lower bodywork scoops the air from below the battery box and directs it over both the controller’s and motor’s cooling fins.
- so, the controller is under the battery.
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From Motorcycle.com:
Motor and Controller
While the battery box is the heaviest component on the SR/F, the motor assembly comes in second. So, it was placed as low and far forward as possible to keep the center-of-gravity low. This placement also allows for the motor to be cooled without fans. Instead, the lower bodywork scoops the air from below the battery box and directs it over both the controller’s and motor’s cooling fins.
- so, the controller is under the battery.
Ah, good catch. This is why I made a forum thread - for more sets of eyes to surface and corroborate details.
So, it won't take much teardown to find out what controller was used and how it operates. Hopefully the ingress rating / management is impeccable because we know that chargers take a beating down there!
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- The "Bosch Motorcycle Control System" is called out "which includes advanced control features from anti-lock brakes to cornering assistance". This seems to be: https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/products-and-services/two-wheeler-and-powersports/riding-safety-systems/motorcycle-stability-control/ (https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/products-and-services/two-wheeler-and-powersports/riding-safety-systems/motorcycle-stability-control/)
- The motor controller is rated at least at 900A (battery side, unknown voltage but peak power is listed at 82kW, and 82kW / 900A = 91V, surprisingly, so the controller minimum voltage may not have changed much).
- Progressive regeneration based on throttle position near the resting stop is called out at least in certain modes/scenarios.
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No one has mentioned yet that the bike uses dual discs and radial-caliper brake systems on the front wheel. Radial calipers typically provide improved braking feel and power. Also, the Showa fully-adjustable big-piston SFF front fork suspension is a nice upgrade over previous models. :) Just the chassis upgrades seem worth much of the increase in price, much less all of the other stuff included in the SR/F.
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Thanks for calling out braking and suspension details and benefits. They’re uncontroversial and thankfully straightforward.
I’m not clear yet how I’ll carve up the manual and website to accommodate these system variants by platform, and am betting on my time and money freeing up soon to support the effort, because right now I lack both.
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It's becoming clear to me that the engineering team adhered to a design philosophy treating the main powerpack or subsystems immediately adjacent to it as a sort of hub.
On the S/X platforms, full current runs from the back of the pack (or modules) to the tail where the controller is, which then routes its output down through the center to the motor. This means that the thickest power cabling runs through a considerable distance within the bike, which is what makes the center of the S platform so cramped.
By positioning the controller nearly against the battery (one assumes there's a contact gap of ~3mm between the battery casing and the controller and charging units), the 900A of current conducts through a very short of cables or possibly even bus bars.
If we're lucky, this means that the MBB and other systems one might want to access or swap may be in remote positions like the tail, so lifting the seat reveals most diagnostic connections in addition to limiting high voltage exposure (primarily 12V circuits and busses).
I'm noticing a number of keyed panels in photos, and it looks like the seat is keyed now. So that suggests that the seat now only exposes 12V systems and is therefore safer for customer access.
All in all, it looks like we now have a proper electrical distribution "star" architecture that should be easier to reason about and move around safely within. If so, good job to that engineering team.
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One more piece of hearsay/inference to note: the cells in each "longbrick" are laid out vertically (thin side up) with the cell face aiming forward.
The connections between cells would then presumably run along the "spine" through the middle of the pack.
This is all inferred from the existing longbrick design and comments about what the battery case fins are meant to accomplish (ensuring that cells in the middle are nearer to the temperature of cells at the front of the pack).
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The Cypher III control system diagram just shows a cycle with Cypher III at the center, with a flow of: Motor, Phone, Battery, Controller (heatsink), Dash, back to the Motor.
Basically, it's the MBB/ECU. The flow is just hand-wavy Powerpoint feel-good stuff, as far as I can tell.
Sure, we might discover that there's a smarter protocol in there than CANBus/CANopen. Maybe they've changed the control architecture so that the MBB is more like the "MCP" (Master Control Program from the TRON movie script).
But it's not a nice neat package like the Z-Force trademark represents, and it doesn't appear very explanatory yet. I mean, given that diagram, I can't figure out what questions or hypotheses one might be able to answer that one couldn't before. Maybe they just want "Cypher Three" to be an easy phrase to say over the phone or in email exchanges to communicate service issues.
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Per:
- https://www.wired.com/story/zero-srf-electric-motorcycle-photos-specs-design/
This implies:
- The footpegs, turn signals (aside from coming with LEDs), and mirrors have not changed.
......
I think the turn signals unfortunately are incandescent.
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So the trouble-prone Calex is gone, nice.
But there must still be some form of DC-DC because a 12V battery couldn't provide 350W continuous.
The 12V battery is a new maintenance item. I would imagine it's much smaller than a YTZ12, not having to provide big CCA. But it might draw mA similar to a cell phone 100% of the time. If it's small, like 1000 mAh, the bike might need to tend it periodically.
The App description indicates you can upload data on torque/power/speed/location/lean angle. What kind of sensor can detect lean angle? Not an accelerometer. I suppose an accelerometer in conjunction with GPS!
This bike really is a new platform and will probably more than double the size of the unofficial manual.
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What kind of sensor can detect lean angle?
Hasn't the Bosch stability system got lean angle sensor? Think there's a mention of cornering ABS, may also be used for traction control.
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What kind of sensor can detect lean angle?
Hasn't the Bosch stability system got lean angle sensor? Think there's a mention of cornering ABS, may also be used for traction control.
BMW started offering this system last year and was charging something like $500 for the download that would make it work on their latest models that have a lean angle sensor (like my 2016 RS). I think they did that to keep up with Ducati, who first introduced the feature a couple of years ago, but at no additional charge. ::) This is likely a worthwhile safety feature for anyone who has the guts to slam on their brakes while in a corner - unlike me, which is why I didn't pay for the download. I might add that the system also keeps wheelies under control. ;)
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- The location of the 12V battery or related subsystems.
The 12V battery is located under the seat, according to the motorcycle.com review.
The cast aluminum subframe holds the seat 30.3-inches high and houses a lithium ion 12V battery.
Yes, the SR/F has a 12V battery to power the on-board systems. Previously, having the only power source being the 100V battery added a layer of complexity that was unnecessary. With the SR/F, the 12V battery acts as a buffer to the system powering the electronics while the 100V battery monitors the 12V battery and charges it as required.
Appreciate the comments on the engineering.
Hasn't the Bosch stability system got lean angle sensor? Think there's a mention of cornering ABS, may also be used for traction control.
Yes, that's probably it.
Again from motorcycle.com:
The Bosch MSC is a first in an electric motorcycle. The MSC hits all of the major dynamic controls: ABS, cornering ABS, traction control, drag torque control – all of which are adjustable via the preset ride modes (Eco, Street, Sport, and Rain) and the 10 user-programmable custom ride modes.
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The subframe houses the 12V battery, and it’s likely under the seat but we’re not clear on that yet. The DC converter is likely within an enclosure forward within underseat area.
The Bosch is likely integral to the powertrain in the sense that the throttle input could be mediated by it. The choice of controller model and how the systems are coupled will be interesting, and hopefully not in the sense of introducing new failure modes and debugging routes.
Maybe “Cypher III†is an attempt to express that three-module coupling like “Trinity†would be. Zero has used Matrix themed monikers before...
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Zero published a press release indicating availability of a Power Tank option later this year (fall), and that the charging system seems fully programmable, able to set schedules, rates, and target levels.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/press-releases/feb-25-2019-zero-srf-announcement.php
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Terry on FB helped confirm that belt changes look easier and may not even require rear wheel removal:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2059939627408568/
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Confirmed via photos:
- incandescent/same turn signals
- Keyed underseat access; a tiny bin under the passenger seat; proper stock handle grips for the tail. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2020966137998905&set=p.2020966137998905&type=3&theater&ifg=1
- Tank storage: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2058538850881979/?comment_id=2060205204048677 https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2058538850881979/?comment_id=2060205204048677
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I’m curious how many amps the full 12 kW system will actually need.
Farasis’s cells are rated at 32 Ah.
To charge 0-95% SOC in 1.3 hours, the chargers will need to supply about 94 amps.
From 3.5 to 4.0 volts per cell and 90% charging efficiency, the AC power needed will vary from 10.2 to 11.7 kW.
At 240 V this is 42.5 to 49 amps.
At 208 V this is 49 to 56 amps.
It seems like a 240 volt 48 amp EVSE would do just fine to support the 12 kW model. Even a 40 A EVSE or 14-50 plug would only be a small decrease.
Edit: Man. All the above is wrong - I misread the standard 1.3 hour 0-95% as the Premium.
With the 12 kW model, you'll need a > 60 amp EVSE to take full advantage - 55 to 64 amps.
J1772 EVSEs with sufficient power are few and far between..
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And all of that would be MUCH easier accommodated by the type 2 connector..
I really wish they would have gone for that once they first made the move to only support EVSE outlets..
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I had a look at the bike in person, last night at San Jose BMW with a number of Zero employees present, up to CTO Abe. They were candid about a number of details, and held back on some others.
Here are some ergonomics/daily usage notes:
- The charging inlet port is latched magnetically, and opens without requiring the key to access.
- The tank lid closes (re-latches) without needing the key.
- The seat key access releases the passenger seat segment, but not the rider seat segment.
- Under the passenger seat segment is: part of the mount of the tail grab bars/horns, a tiny storage tray (enough for the tools needed to open the rest of the bike), two hooks for retaining helmets via their chin straps, and molded plastic covering the 12V wiring to the tail lights.
- Accessing the 12V system (battery, fuse block, distribution) requires removing a single bolt holding the rider seat segment on, which is under the passenger seat segment. Like many or most main parts of the bike, this requires a Torx T-15? drive. I happen to have a compact titanium drive set I could recommend to fit in the seat storage pocket.
- If the Charge Tank or Power Tank are installed, the tank plastics do not change, BUT the storage bin is replaced with a shallow bin or tray, enough to store gloves/map/tools.
- The tank and other plastics seem very well made (less susceptible to fatigue with weathering and use), and designed for easier roadside or garage servicing.
Here are more maintenance oriented notes:
- The belt has a new part number, and is likely even wider than the 2017+ MY belt.
- The swingarm has threaded holes for rear stand spools.
- The hard plastic belly cover for the controller is (EDIT: corrected by Zero customer service) NOT designed or rated to support the bike on a center lift.
- No high voltage wiring seems to be present in the tail, intentionally.
- The rear of the battery seems to be covered with two separate panels for protection from the elements, upper and lower, under which the high voltage cabling and wires seem to exclusively reside.
- All of the main bus cabling runs very short lengths between the chargers and the battery, and between the battery, controller, and motor.
- This does seem to mean that there are fewer opportunities to plug into the high voltage bus/cabling for accessory chargers, and that any solution in this regard would require the sensitive procedure of controller taps or similar.
- The motor encoder is designed to be serviceable and replaceable without exchanging the motor; it seems to have design improvements as well for reliability and/or precision.
- The Power Pivot design involves brackets that cradle the motor, so there are separate bearings for the swingarm pivot vs the motor itself.
- The team took pride in noting how much painful testing they performed in the SoCal deserts (death valley, etc) to see what it took to overheat the battery. They're much more confident in high ambient temperature and high output thermal performance for the battery, motor, and controller.
- No one mentioned cold weather performance, but my favorite solution of wrapping the battery in 3mm of neoprene still seems workable and could fasten to the tube trellis.
- The team were also proud of designing the new motor; it seems to be fabricated in a relatively distinct way, perhaps even unique. They regretted that their existing extrusion method went by the wayside, because they relished being able to "just lengthen the motor" to get different performance levels out of it, and the new motor design does not afford that in the manufacturing implementation.
- There was a detail about lamination improvements inside the motor for better heat transfer which will probably get a cutaway illustration soon so they can brag.
- I will say that it's pretty easy to see how air gets scooped up under the controller (its fins point downward inside that plastic pan) and then loops over the motor.
During presentation Q&A, a pointed question was asked why Zero stuck with the same low voltage range. There were three people responding in different ways, and I could tell there's a lot of "wisdom to dispel" where people think that high voltage / reduced current is literally the only equation to keep in mind. It's hard to talk about MOSFET vs IGBT in a general setting, but they focused on very short cable runs, the very compact size and capacity of the powertrain vs cars, and that Zero vs Energica / etc MPGe numbers tell a clear story that Zero's powertrain is more efficient.
The engineers seemed to have been surprised by the "Cipher III" branding, indicating it's a marketing term. Time will tell whether this term will occur in service interactions between Zero, dealerships, and customers, or if it's entirely about marketing.
In short, I can't find any fault with the new platform that hasn't been discussed broadly (lack of a dual-J input for the Charge Tank, say, vs 12kW through one port, and lack of CCS/DC support). There are problems like aerodynamics that are not addressed on this model, but I'd bet it would be a much easier platform to design and fabricate fairing bracketing around.
Personally, I still have the preference that I'll wait for the 2020 model announcements in case a different model appears then for this platform, at which point I could adopt it. The streetfighter SR/F model looks like it'll be easier to handle than the SR, but any "less aggressive" form of this bike would probably be more comfortable for me (and my passenger who's already overwhelmed by the DSR when I open up the throttle).
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I forgot some more ergonomics notes:
- The kickstand is constructed differently, probably less likely to wear or bend in ways we've seen with the current generation.
- The kickstand pivot is behind the footpeg, and the kickstand lowers to the rear. There is a cutout on the bracket covering the swingarm pivot, and a corresponding rubber sleeve so that the spring doesn't wear into the bracket or the rider's boots.
- The bracket supporting both the rider and passenger footpegs was designed with removal and customization for e.g. racing in mind. Basically it should be easier to fabricate rearsets or the like.
- The reach from the seat to the handlebars across the tank seems longer (and is probably derivable from the online photos if not an explicit dimension).
- The mirror mounts seem set forward slightly from the bars, though I forgot to check that detail precisely.
- The headlamp toggle switch is now on the front of the left switch assembly! Pulling it toggles the momentary flash-to-pass feature, and *pushing the tab forward* engages the high-beam mode. This felt a tiny bit fragile but usable and the switch is at least pretty solid.
- The left handlebar switch assembly's "face" is dominated by a mode switch which is a left/right toggle navigator with push-button effect. I believe it works the display settings.
- The bar ends are weighted aluminum on the model I checked.
- Heated grips are included with the premium factory trim but also will be a separate accessory; maybe everything on the premium trim will be available separately at least as a part order.
- The underside of the tail is a hard smooth plastic surface; no real equipment will have mud flung on it.
- The turn signals mount to a single bracket and inlet, so swapping them for other options should be easier than with the tail extension juggling currently required.
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Thanks to a FB post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2088166297919234/
- The controller is by SME Group, model HyPer-Drive X144: https://evshop.eu/en/controllers/63-controller-hyper-drive-sme-acx144.html
- The 3kW charger units are labeled Zero proprietary but have basic nameplate data.
It would definitely be savvy of Zero to determine how to retrofit existing SDS and XMX platform models with one of these units as an onboard charger. That would both flush out Calex instabilities and give older models a little spec bump.
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Out of curiosity, does the SR/F accept the existing quick chargers, or is the only way to get a faster charge at home is to install a Level 2 system in your garage?
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Out of curiosity, does the SR/F accept the existing quick chargers, or is the only way to get a faster charge at home is to install a Level 2 system in your garage?
I asked about whether an Anderson connector were available for splitting after noting carefully that the high voltage systems shrouds did not expose one. The short answer is "no", although there may be a juncture that's more reasonable to tap than the controller terminals.
You can of course plug into a 110V outlet with their adapter and the Zero's chargers will slow-charge (1.3-1.5kW). Or you can get another J to 220V adapter or buy one of the EVSE's.
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Regarding the battery case,
- pouch cells are stacked with the edge facing upward, face forward.
- the fins are sized to equalize the temperature between cells in the center versus cells closer to the front or rear of the case. They were happy to get both good functionality and relatively attractive design out of the process.
- the plate in center is thick enough to aid in heat conduction but is primarily structural, with some openings within for cross connections.
- I’m unclear which side of the pack features cell interconnections and other safety features.
- I forgot to ask about temperature sensor layout, which has been a low key mystery for me. Seems like we’ll still have 7 internal sensors with one ambient sensor.
- the BMS is still in front under a harder plastic cover, but now lacks windows for status indicator lights and reset push buttons.
- the front cover is now bolted more securely than before (bolts into the front face rather than reaching around the side of the frame to anchor) but doesn’t depend on side panel removal first.
- panels covering the tank area seem more likely to shield moisture from a Power Tank accessory in bad weather.
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Torx bolts on photo review look closer to T25 than T15.
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I've noticed that Zero has published the owner's manual for the 2020 SRF in English:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/ (https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/)
http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2020/2020-Zero-Owners-Manual-SRF.pdf (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2020/2020-Zero-Owners-Manual-SRF.pdf)
I've updated the wiki:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Official_Owners_Manual (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Official_Owners_Manual)
I've also thumbed through the entire thing.
- The PDF has internal hyperlinks for quick navigation (good idea; not enough PDF tools help authors manage this).
- Charging explanation and recommendations seem clearer and focus more on "do these things, generally" vs "don't do X".
- Drag Traction Control stood out as a distinct feature.
- The Throttle is clearly managed by the Bosch Stability Control system.
- They distinguish the Power Pack from the Battery (12V) which is a little confusing for documentation and communication.
- Pretty full description of the dash menu; I noticed that the ride modes and custom ride modes can all change the dash color.
- Disabling ABS disables traction control; procedure sounds fiddly but can probably be in muscle memory after practicing it a few times.
- I'm unclear on whether the menu handlebar switch acting on mode vs display options operates differently while riding vs standing still.
- All of the basic rider-operated interlocks (cutout and kickstand) get their own icons on the display, for clarity.
- The display of notices and errors includes an explanatory message! This is great for us owners, especially when first getting accustomed to the bike.
- There's a new Notification code system on the dash, but it does include a helpful message and the manual has a table for the codes and messages.- Which error codes correspond to the check engine light (CEL) are marked in the manual's error code table.
- The platform listed for the VIN decode is "FST"(!)
Wheels/Suspension:- Nicer suspension adjustment controls.
- Brake pads: SBS-SI-80GG front (4 pads), SBS-SI-24HH rear (2 pads)- Tire listing includes installed models and also "approved alternates".
Belt/Drive:
- Belt life expectancy seems to be 24k miles still.
- Belt tension 51-102kg (112-225lb), pretty wide and taught band...- Drive sprocket ratio is still 90/20, with 11mm belt pitch (can't find width).
12V Electrical:
- The 12V battery and fuse box are under the rider's seat, which requires a bolt to release, and THEN under a plate under the seat, requiring more unbolting. BUT 12V loads will probably not trigger fuse blows, because there are separate 12V power distribution units (PDUs).
- The headlamp assembly is sealed, so changing the LEDs is not supported.
- The 12V battery is LiFeO4 and has its own heater (12V, fused).
- The 12V accessory ports are: (1) Sumitomo connector at the front of the tank, and (2) an SAE connector below the seat on the right (presumably optimized for heated gear).
- The 12V power distribution is now able to operate/activate the motor controller, OBDII port, and other normal 12V loads. This will make roadside troubleshooting more informative.
- HV fuses are now accessible below the tank plastics on the left rear quarter, but require a Torx(?) bit to uncover. One for the DC/DC converter, and another for the MBB+Contactor(!), both SPT3.15A.
- No charging accessories are listed as supported.
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Sounds like a lot of things that could go wrong. Hopefully not, but you know how it is. ::) Plus, the Zero dealers's service technicians are going to have a lot to learn about repairing the SR/F if it is needed. I hope Zero has improved their service communication system to all of their dealers, compared with what it has been in the past. ???
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There will probably be some teething issues, but honestly the bike seems easier to diagnose roadside which should make owners less nervous.
And I suspect Zero took pains to make this bike easier to perform fault isolation on. A lot of post-presentation comments shared at the San Jose unveiling centered around serviceability in various ways, like a replaceable motor encoder.
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and the battery can handle 1200 amps.
Still a 116.5 volt battery?
116.5 volts times 1200 amps=139,800 watts?
-Don- Reno, NV
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The power pack configuration is the same as on current models. The cables are intentionally shorter between the battery, controller, and chargers.
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Minor notes about the owner's manual introduction:
- "Cypher III" is referenced exactly once in the owner's manual in the introduction, with no further references. This makes it hard to understand what it really refers to, so I doubt service requests will pick up the term.
- The 3kW charging units are referred to as Rapid Charge Modules (RCMs) in the introduction, and nowhere else.
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Minor notes about the owner's manual introduction:
- "Cypher III" is referenced exactly once in the owner's manual in the introduction, with no further references. This makes it hard to understand what it really refers to, so I doubt service requests will pick up the term.
- The 3kW charging units are referred to as Rapid Charge Modules (RCMs) in the introduction, and nowhere else.
"Cypher III" is evidently a bad name, as if a meaningless attempt to sound cool using an inapplicable crypto term. It is too embarrassing to refer to repeatedly. The only worse name Zero marketing (presumably) came up with is "SR/F" because it's diametrically wrong, although by now everyone's starting to get used to it.
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I bet the term "Cyber III" came from a well-paid consultant. Probably one that looks like a small dog and wags its tail when making money or screwing over a customer. ;D
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I have been able to physically confirm some measurements on an SR/F:
- The drive belt width is 20mm.
- The primary frame tubes' outer diameter is 29mm.
- The secondary frame tubes' outer diameter is 20mm.
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Having chatted with a few engineers and seen this photo from Zero for their Pikes Peak preparation, I think it’s clear that the MBB, OBD port, and DC-DC converter are all accessible under the tank.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv2eyD9Fllt/
The tank does have air ducts at the frame shoulder area which direct air past the charger modules. Hopefully the shielding for the bike’s systems is solid to keep reliability up, but it’ll definitely be the case that these parts will be easier to service and replace.
The OBD port may be accessible without removing the tank by unscrewing an already noticed small panel covering it. One might use the USB power in the tank to power a data collecting computer that plugs right into the OBD port.
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I will note that the Anderson brown connectors depicted in that Instagram photo have been described as for race preparation only and I have no confirmed production connector junctions.
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Reading through the owners manual for the third time while patiently waiting for the SR/F to arrive, I have noticed two small things that I am not sure was mentioned here
1) The turn signals are auto canceling. Nice feature for those of us whose memory is not like it used to be when they were younger.
2) The keys are chip keys. This may be a pain for some who have a tendency to lose keys but it may save a little on insurance and help with theft.
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Does the SR/F come with enough slack in the various cables to allow bar risers?
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Does the SR/F come with enough slack in the various cables to allow bar risers?
Yes.
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Reading through the owners manual for the third time while patiently waiting for the SR/F to arrive, I have noticed two small things that I am not sure was mentioned here
1) The turn signals are auto canceling. Nice feature for those of us whose memory is not like it used to be when they were younger.
2) The keys are chip keys. This may be a pain for some who have a tendency to lose keys but it may save a little on insurance and help with theft.
Both are correct, and I neglected to highlight them.
The auto canceling feature seems to come from the new Bosch system.
The owner’s manual says that buying an SR/F provides a master key and two regular keys, and that any duplicates require the master key, so keep it really really safe.
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Reading through the owners manual for the third time while patiently waiting for the SR/F to arrive, I have noticed two small things that I am not sure was mentioned here
1) The turn signals are auto canceling. Nice feature for those of us whose memory is not like it used to be when they were younger.
2) The keys are chip keys. This may be a pain for some who have a tendency to lose keys but it may save a little on insurance and help with theft.
That business with the chipped key is what BMW uses when you don't invest in their option for a keyless key fob system. Either key must be ordered from the factory, where they are programmed for your bike, at considerable cost and travel time. So be sure to have that key embedded into your rear end so that you won't loose it. ;)
Both are correct, and I neglected to highlight them.
The auto canceling feature seems to come from the new Bosch system.
The owner’s manual says that buying an SR/F provides a master key and two regular keys, and that any duplicates require the master key, so keep it really really safe.
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Here are more maintenance oriented notes:
- The hard plastic belly cover for the controller is (EDIT: corrected by Zero customer service) NOT designed or rated to support the bike on a center lift.
I've corrected the above statement. I'm not sure whether when I was asked that I misunderstood the answer, but I was sure I heard that the controller belly cover could lift the bike. It might, but it's not intended that way and Zero doesn't rely on it.
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AF1 Racing now has some SR/F spare parts up on their website. Amngst them the drivebelt which now has 151 teeth and is 20 mm wide.
151 Teeth, 11mm Pitch, 20mm Width
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3323&description=2020+Zero+Motorcycle+Spare+Parts+Catalogs (https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3323&description=2020+Zero+Motorcycle+Spare+Parts+Catalogs)
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AF1 Racing now has some SR/F spare parts up on their website. Amngst them the drivebelt which now has 151 teeth and is 20 mm wide.
151 Teeth, 11mm Pitch, 20mm Width
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3323&description=2020+Zero+Motorcycle+Spare+Parts+Catalogs (https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3323&description=2020+Zero+Motorcycle+Spare+Parts+Catalogs)
The price for the replacement belt remains pretty reasonable. Only a price increase of $20 over the 2018 belt and $60 greater than the 2014's belt (if I recall correctly). A lot better than the $527 that BMW wants for the drive belt used on their F800GT model. :o
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Has anyone come across exact paint codes yet?
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I'm moving work over to the unofficial manual, using a placeholder Talk page for the SRF model for now:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Talk:SRF_Model
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Reading through the owners manual for the third time while patiently waiting for the SR/F to arrive, I have noticed two small things that I am not sure was mentioned here
1) The turn signals are auto canceling. Nice feature for those of us whose memory is not like it used to be when they were younger.
2) The keys are chip keys. This may be a pain for some who have a tendency to lose keys but it may save a little on insurance and help with theft.
I have not found my turn signals to be self cancelling. If this is supposed to be a feature it is not working on my SR/F. I wish it would however since I often forget to cancel them.
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I have not found my turn signals to be self cancelling. If this is supposed to be a feature it is not working on my SR/F. I wish it would however since I often forget to cancel them.
I've found my turn signals self-cancelling, but it takes them a super long time, maybe 60s. I'm hoping they fix their algorithm with a firmware patch (assuming they have a tilt sensor or accelerometer in there to use).
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I've found my turn signals self-cancelling, but it takes them a super long time, maybe 60s. I'm hoping they fix their algorithm with a firmware patch (assuming they have a tilt sensor or accelerometer in there to use).
Can you video this turn signal self-cancelling action (with a timecode overlay) for reference?
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Reading through the owners manual for the third time while patiently waiting for the SR/F to arrive, I have noticed two small things that I am not sure was mentioned here
1) The turn signals are auto canceling. Nice feature for those of us whose memory is not like it used to be when they were younger.
2) The keys are chip keys. This may be a pain for some who have a tendency to lose keys but it may save a little on insurance and help with theft.
I have not found my turn signals to be self cancelling. If this is supposed to be a feature it is not working on my SR/F. I wish it would however since I often forget to cancel them.
The self cancelling feature works on my SR/F but it does indeed take what feels like a very long time, though is not more that a minute.
It should be like 30 seconds or so, not a minute.
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In most motorcycles that have self-canceling signals it is based on time AND distance. In other words, once the motorcycle has covered a measured distance (usually around 120 feet) AND the signal has been on for a specific period of time (30 seconds?) then the signal is canceled.
Harley Davidson had a third condition, throttle roll-on, because typically once out of the turn you roll the throttle back on. Not sure what the criteria may be for the SR/F, I only know what other manufacturers have done in the past.
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All (SR/F) bikes have self-cancelling turn signals. It is not a time-based cancelling, it's distance and does not look at lean angle to detect the turn (at the time of this writing). The feature is aimed to prevent running down the highway/freeway with your turn signal on after a merge with traffic. The feature is not aimed to be used to replace manual cancelling around town. It's a safety net.
ZeroBrian explained how it works on SR/F on the other thread.
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Thanks for rounding up more information, all.
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Just picked my new red SR/F today. It's my second Zero after my 2017 DSR. It's interesting to me that after having kept a list of "suboptimal" things about my DSR, the SR/F fixes 23 of them (!) and is only missing 4 to make it a perfect bike:
- TPMS (for safety. for now I use aftermarket.)
- Cruise control up/down/resume
- Incandescent turn signals (really?)
- Keyless operation (hey, my Tesla has it!)
A tip I haven't seen here: if you try to edit the "Custom" mode from the App, all the controls are greyed out. But when you create your first user-created mode (and remember to make it "active"), it gets installed on the bike, and in the app all the controls are adjustable.
One thing I haven't yet figured out is the Cellular connectivity. If I can't get it sussed today I'll call Zero on Monday. If anyone knows how to activate that, I'd love a pointer or two.
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Just picked my new red SR/F today. It's my second Zero after my 2017 DSR. It's interesting to me that after having kept a list of "suboptimal" things about my DSR, the SR/F fixes 23 of them (!) and is only missing 4 to make it a perfect bike:
- TPMS (for safety. for now I use aftermarket.)
- Cruise control up/down/resume
- Incandescent turn signals (really?)
- Keyless operation (hey, my Tesla has it!)
A tip I haven't seen here: if you try to edit the "Custom" mode from the App, all the controls are greyed out. But when you create your first user-created mode (and remember to make it "active"), it gets installed on the bike, and in the app all the controls are adjustable.
One thing I haven't yet figured out is the Cellular connectivity. If I can't get it sussed today I'll call Zero on Monday. If anyone knows how to activate that, I'd love a pointer or two.
Not bad, only 4 of 23... My main requirement was traction control, and they nailed that one.
I did not have to do anything for the cellular to work (that I can recall). Once I paired the mobile app with bluetooth, the remote features (limited as they are) worked without issue once disconnected from bluetooth.
It's amazing how annoying keys are once you get used to not needing them. Our Volvo and Honda both are keyless. Not so much with my 1990 Miata, or my Zero...
Steve
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Doh! Figured out the cellular connectivity issue. Once I *registered* on the App (which I skipped while at the dealer), it just connected right up. I suppose some sort of error message or suggestion might have been appropriate, but in truth, it was "pilot error." Well, got everything squared away, new "Commute" profile all set up, and have verified that the remote connectivity works. Looking forward to knowing when to go downstairs to move the new bike while charging at work!