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Author Topic: The Hydrogen Highway  (Read 9440 times)

Curt

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2020, 04:35:18 AM »

There were more Leafs on the road than Teslas until last year.  There are more non-Tesla EVs on the road than Teslas.

Relevance?

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Having no EV charging means you do not grow your market.

Alice's is always packed (covid aside) and does not need to grow their market, especially in miniscule ways. If they did want to grow their market, they wouldn't spend their budget trying to attract more EVs.

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They would be a stop a Leaf could take to the beach... But they don't have charging, so no Leaf or Bolt owners go there.

My Bolt has 239 miles of range. I don't need a charger at Alice's or the beach, and neither do any of the Teslas or Leafs or any other recent EV car, much less ones coming in the future.

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Let alone Zeros, which are made just down the road and the Zero demos used to go that way but now go South instead.

Charging at Alice's would be a game changer for Zeros, but only for the Zero owners, not Alice's. And only for Zeros with an L2 port. Miniscule.

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By not having charging, they are making sure no mid to low distance EVs even visit their community.

They don't need to cater to short-range EVs or long-distance travelers. Miniscule. Even if EVs mattered, the long range EV density is relatively high in a 50 mile radius around Alice's.

Still, I would welcome DCFC at Skywood, as long as they're dropping millions with no regard for financial viability. My Bolt could potentially use that, in some contrived scenario that I can't dream up right now.
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Crissa

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2020, 05:32:07 AM »

Relevance?
Facts, not anecdotes.

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Alice's is always packed
It's never packed when I pass by.  Heck, when I've eaten there, I'm usually one of two tables or so.  Anecdote, though.

Their low wages and high server turnaround do not indicate a healthy business, though.

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My Bolt has 239 miles of range.
Anecdote again.  The median new EV (excepting motorcycles) is 181 miles.  But that really doesn't indicate installed base, does it?  Or whether gaining a dozen or two miles while eating would be more convenient than not and make them more likely to choose that location.

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Charging at Alice's would be a game changer for Zeros, but only for the Zero owners, not Alice's. And only for Zeros with an L2 port. Miniscule.
It would make it within return trip range of Santa Cruz by half-battery non-L2 Zeros.

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They don't need to cater...
Assertion.  Sure.  If you don't want to grow the EV market.  I suppose they don't need to interact with vehicles of the twenty-first century.

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Still, I would welcome DCFC at Skywood, as long as they're dropping millions...
Assertion.  False.  Even at California's inflated prices, it doesn't cost 'millions' to put in a charging station.

-Crissa
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Curt

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2020, 01:57:39 PM »

It's never packed when I pass by.  Heck, when I've eaten there, I'm usually one of two tables or so.
Their low wages and high server turnaround do not indicate a healthy business, though.

That would support my assertion that an EV charger is the last thing they need to worry about. However, I do find it's been packed on weekends as expected, decent food and service, and you contradict their own statement (if true above) that they don't care to lose any lot space to a charger. Their lot is too busy.

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The median new EV (excepting motorcycles) is 181 miles.  But that really doesn't indicate installed base, does it?  Or whether gaining a dozen or two miles while eating would be more convenient than not and make them more likely to choose that location.

That's plenty of range for a full day along the coast. No charging station is needed there (a Bolt would add 20% range out in a 90-minute L2 stop... meh, not needeed).

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Sure.  If you don't want to grow the EV market.  I suppose they don't need to interact with vehicles of the twenty-first century.

It has nothing to do with what you or I want. Alice's could give a crap about growing the EV market. They don't need to. if their lot is full, it doesn't matter if they're ICE or EV. Future chargers belong over at the STP station and not Alice's anyway.

I realize you'd really like a plug there, because it would benefit you disproportionately, but that's your wish and not their problem. Keep working on them. Maybe they could become a ChargePoint location at zero cost or even profit. They'd have to run a 50A service out there.

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Still, I would welcome DCFC at Skywood, as long as they're dropping millions...
Assertion.  False.  Even at California's inflated prices, it doesn't cost 'millions' to put in a charging station.

Wrong. Reading comprehension. I never said it did, and even documented the actual costs above. They dropped millions on the hydrogen station.
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Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2020, 08:10:23 PM »

To illustrate that Alice's parking lot sometimes is packed to overflowing, the restaurant across the street has permanent signs and red cones lining their completely empty lot that say "No Alice's Restaurant parking here, violators will be towed". And on the weekends the adjacent state highway 35 is lined with parked cars and all of their owners are patrons of the restaurant.
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Crissa

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2020, 11:40:12 PM »

There's lots of people stopped, but actually in Alice's?

People means there needs to be services, though.

-Crissa
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Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2020, 03:37:55 AM »

There's lots of people stopped, but actually in Alice's?

People means there needs to be services, though.

-Crissa

Last Sunday morning there were a lot of fancy sports cars parked in Alice's lot. Around 9:30 a San Mateo County Sheriff's pickup drove up. A deputy got out with a hand-held computer device and started checking car license plates. You should have seen the owners suddenly jump in the cars and take off. After about 5 minutes, the parking lot was half empty.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MikeL

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2020, 07:27:49 PM »

There's lots of people stopped, but actually in Alice's?

People means there needs to be services, though.

-Crissa

Last Sunday morning there were a lot of fancy sports cars parked in Alice's lot. Around 9:30 a San Mateo County Sheriff's pickup drove up. A deputy got out with a hand-held computer device and started checking car license plates. You should have seen the owners suddenly jump in the cars and take off. After about 5 minutes, the parking lot was half empty.  ;)

What are they checking for? That's interesting.
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Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2020, 08:13:44 PM »

There's lots of people stopped, but actually in Alice's?

People means there needs to be services, though.

-Crissa

Last Sunday morning there were a lot of fancy sports cars parked in Alice's lot. Around 9:30 a San Mateo County Sheriff's pickup drove up. A deputy got out with a hand-held computer device and started checking car license plates. You should have seen the owners suddenly jump in the cars and take off. After about 5 minutes, the parking lot was half empty.  ;)

What are they checking for? That's interesting.

Good question.  Most likely expired registration tags, stolen vehicles or stolen license plates.  ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2020, 03:38:29 AM »

Here is my favorite warning sign.   ;D
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2020, 05:42:29 AM »

The Hydrogen Highway is in a new lane: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54888919
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Crissa

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2020, 08:45:35 AM »

Now that's the way to make gas ^-^

-Crissa
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Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2020, 09:15:52 PM »

Now that's the way to make gas ^-^

-Crissa

Gotta get people to eat more beans - or we could have more elections.   ;D
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2021, 08:22:13 PM »

This guy is not a fan of hydrogen-powered vehicles: 
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

flynnstig82r

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2021, 08:56:46 PM »

For the consumer market, hydrogen is a dead end outside of Japan IMO. The chicken-egg problem is just too strong. No one will build stations because no one has the vehicles, and no one buys the vehicles because of the lack of stations. When you do find a station, it costs twice as much as gas, and the total lifecycle efficiency isn't much better than a Prius and nowhere near as green as a battery-electric. There are so many DC fast-chargers now that the old convenience argument doesn't hold water, either. The vehicles are also a lot more expensive than BEV's and have nowhere near the performance. A large enough government subsidy isn't going to happen because of the massive cost of H2 production and stations compared to the relatively cheap EV chargers.

For trucks, ships, and planes, however, it could end up being a different story.
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Richard230

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Re: The Hydrogen Highway
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2021, 03:17:06 AM »

The Hydrogen Highway in the Santa Cruz Mountains across from Alice's Restaurant is looking pretty sad lately. They don't even bother to shut or lock the door to the facility. So I went inside and took these photos.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
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