Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DonTom]

My local dealer is San Jose BMW.

I've been there many times (I used to live in San Mateo & Belmont and other places in the west bay area).

Does SJ BMW have a Zero mechanic at this time, or are they selling the bikes with nobody to service them, like here in Reno at this time?


-Don-  Reno, NV

 

[pacificcricket]

Many words to say nothing: the value of your car could reasonably vary by 3 orders of magnitude. Same with your bank balance. Looks like the record for most expensive bike sold is about to break 7 figures. Anyway, being able to pay cash for something doesn't mean you can afford it. What about your savings? I could have 7 figures in my retirement but be unable to afford a $15K zero if I'm not working and have no income, limited liquid assets and incur penalty withdrawing from something like a 401k.

Affordability is actually not a well understood concept.

Savings, retirement accounts aren't cash. Cash is something you can spend tomorrow without implications other than the chance of wasting it

[staples]

Is it common to get loaner bikes from dealers when you bring one in for service? I figured the liability would be too great.

[NetPro]

Is it common to get loaner bikes from dealers when you bring one in for service? I figured the liability would be too great.

I am sure it is not common under normal conditions.
But if you just bought a bike and the dealer is unable to fix it within a few days, this is not "normal conditions".
An unreasonable delay should entitle the new owner some "special treatment" such as a loaner from the factory or dealer because after all, it is not his/her fault the factory & dealer don't have a reliable service program.
This is even more so when the failure is not caused by a crash or abuse to the new bike, like the one described by the OP.

I know this is just wishful thinking but it would be the right thing to do. We the customers are being penalized by a lack of working logistics and  proper management that spans both, factory and dealer.

[Redblade]

Damn, flat tire sounds like he needs to get laid. What an asshole.

[Richard230]

Is it common to get loaner bikes from dealers when you bring one in for service? I figured the liability would be too great.

For the past 30 years, my BMW dealer has been offering their service customers loaner motorcycles while their bikes are being serviced. But they are loaned out for just one day and must be returned before the shop closes.  My understanding is that the loaner bikes are owned and insured by the manufacturer, not the dealership. 

[NetPro]

For the past 30 years, my BMW dealer has been offering their service customers loaner motorcycles while their bikes are being serviced. But they are loaned out for just one day and must be returned before the shop closes.  My understanding is that the loaner bikes are owned and insured by the manufacturer, not the dealership.

It is very nice they do that! I wasn't aware such a perk existed in the motorcycle world.
I guess the volume of business allows BMW to do that (maybe only large dealerships have it?)

Anyways, in my mind, the real value would be when you bike is out for the long run. Getting a loaner just for the day is cool but not critical.
Wonder if Beemers suffer from extended maintenance due to lack of mechanics training or availability of parts.

[JaimeC]

My previous BMW dealer had a couple of "beater bikes" that he figured were worth more as "loaners" than bothering trying to sell them.  They were NOT provided by BMWNA, they were his bikes.  He built a lot of goodwill that way.  None of the dealers I work with now have "loaner bikes."  Only my car dealer provides that service.

[wavelet]

I really enjoy my Zero DSR for commuting, but it just seems the technology and service is not up to my standards. I have never had to wait a week for a repair let alone a month.

meark, I think the basic point is that it needs to be understood that Zero is a very small company, not much larger than a startup (as far as is known, their sales volume is in the low four digits/year); that's ~ two orders of magnitude less than BMW, or a staggering five orders of magnitude less than Honda (who sell ~20M two-wheelers/year).

That means that Zero has very limited resources to handle service & customer support, support & train dealers etc., doesn't have regular procedures for a lot of stuff, and frequently getting things done depends on getting through to a specific person at Zero. 

Anecdotally, from reading this and other electric motorcycle forums, it looks like ~10% of Zero customers have suffered an issue serious enough that their bikes spent multiple months at a dealer waiting to be fixed.
Not because the bikes are necessarily badly designed, but due to a mix of organizational, dealer training & supply chain issues.
Anyone considering a Zero needs to understand this, and I'd caution anyone who expects Big Four levels of service and/or relies on having an 95% uptime on their bike about this -- Zeros at this point are early-adopter machines.
These kind of issues aren't unique to electric bikes, either; as of 10-15 years ago, for example, the Ducati importer for North America didn't keep a stock of most replacement parts on hand in a US warehouse. Apart from standard wear & tear parts, many/most others had to be specifically ordered from Italy for each repair/service for each bike, which used to take 1-2 weeks for the parts alone. I know many owners who got burned by this. I hope that's no longer the case.

[flattetyre]

Damn, flat tire sounds like he needs to get laid. What an asshole.

If that's what's on your mind maybe you need to lol.

Savings, retirement accounts aren't cash. Cash is something you can spend tomorrow without implications other than the chance of wasting it

That was the point. Having $100K (or whatever) in a bank account doesn't mean you can afford something that costs that much or less: it just means you can buy it. Ability to buy not equal to can afford. What about the rest of your life?

[heroto]

 Some wise folks have proposed that this is at least as much of a shop issue as a Zero manufacturing/quality issue.

[dukecola]

1. There isn't anything stupid about saving gas. It's unlikely you'll save enough DOLLARS to justify buying electric on a strictly economic basis, but "saving gas" goes beyond that. This world needs to get over its addiction to petrochemicals, and us early adopters are the tip of the spear.

Oh really?  How many 'petrochemicals" were uses to mine the materials for production of your Zero's batteries, then to ship them by olluting cargo ship to China for assembly, then all parts shipped by polluting cargo ships fro China to California for final assembly, then again by 18 wheelers from California to your dealer?

[MrBlc]

@dukecola
By that logic you make it sound like it's pointless to electrify even some of our transportation..
Just because we couldn't start with the biggest polluters, we have to start somewhere to be able to work up to the rest of it..
You can't convert all of society's transportation needs in one night, one month or one year.. it has to happen gradually and by starting where it's possible.

This level of argumenting is more pointless than the discussion it's based on and pisses me off..

[pacificcricket]

Oh really?  How many 'petrochemicals" were uses to mine the materials for production of your Zero's batteries, then to ship them by olluting cargo ship to China for assembly, then all parts shipped by polluting cargo ships fro China to California for final assembly, then again by 18 wheelers from California to your dealer?

Some. Related studies have been done for passenger cars, and the numbers that come out of it while vary from source to source, roughly put energy requirements to produce an ICE car at about 250 gallons of gasoline equivalent, and BEVs at 400 or so. What is 250 gallons of gas for a car that gets 35MPG ? Well, you can count... Similarly you can do the math for BEV case.

Same argument is often used for photovoltaics. Those break even on energy consumed / produced at around 2 years. Given their estimated life expectancy of 20 years... they're quite good for the environment.

[valnar]

Oh really?  How many 'petrochemicals" were uses to mine the materials for production of your Zero's batteries, then to ship them by olluting cargo ship to China for assembly, then all parts shipped by polluting cargo ships fro China to California for final assembly, then again by 18 wheelers from California to your dealer?

I've actually wondered about this too, but the cost to create gasoline from oil also has an effect on the environment.  An ICE bike would need that gas/oil.  I would think the actual impact difference would be the DELTA between those numbers, not necessarily the raw amount of petrochemicals of bringing batteries to a Zero.