ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: siai47 on September 25, 2019, 03:35:06 AM
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I went to go for a ride on my SR/F today and decided to fully charge it before I left. I plugged in the J1772 connector as usual and everything appeared normal. It had 60% charge at the time and I went off and left it to charge to 100%. A while later, I noticed it had finished charging and removed the connector. When I turned on the key, I noticed it had only charged to 77%. I reinserted the connector and absolutely nothing happened. It was then I noticed my EVSE power was off. I use a Tesla wall connector with a J-stub adapter as my primary EVSE which is capable of delivering 80 amps to a vehicle. I checked the circuit breaker panel and found the 100 amp circuit breaker that feeds the EVSE was tripped. I reset the breaker and tried again to charge. This time when I plugged the J1772 connector in, I heard a contactor close in the bike, the charging screen came up and a few moments later I saw that a pilot signal had been sent to the EVSE to commence charging. The EVSE contactor closed and tried to send power to the bike. Both the current and KW screens on the bikes dash remained at zero and in about 30 seconds the EVSE shut down (no circuit breaker operation). I have a GE Wattstation for a backup EVSE and tried that to see if there was an EVSE problem. However, the bike responded exactly as it did with my other EVSE.
I have a feeling something big failed/shorted in one of both of the onboard chargers. I don't know if there is a fuse in there somewhere but something caused the 100 amp breaker to open supplying the EVSE. That's a lot of power to trip. Anyway, it's off to the dealer tomorrow. Fortunately It's within range of the bike in it's current state. Good thing it didn't happen on a road trip or I would have been stranded. Error codes reported were #35 (CAN buss communication) which I see all the time and delete. Also error codes #37 and #38 which basically tell you to pull out the charge connector, wait two minutes, and retry it again. After the initial failure, only code #38 came back each time I tried to charge. In addition, my cell phone sent me a notification that charging had been interrupted. So, I think the control system is functioning but when it sees no charge activity, it terminates the charge. My guess is one of the two chargers failed and took out a major fuse somewhere along the line. I guess as inconvenient as this is, it's still a warranty issue and stuff happens on new things.
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Yeah, thanks for the thorough assessment. Hopefully it is just a teething issue with new equipment in the field. It’ll be nice to see how to check charging fuses on the road at some point.
Good luck!
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You're not alone. Mine did the same last week (standard version). I recorded a video for the dealer if you want to see how it behaves. My dealer confirmed it's a CAN Bus problem but now it's on its way to Holland form Spain because they don't know how to fix it, so I guess I'm going to miss it for at leaset 3-4 weeks.. It's a shame :-\
https://photos.app.goo.gl/D8tgUeXjVsVG35oX6
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Maybe this is one of those things where the workaround is a total reboot using the simplest possible trigger (key off and unplug, wait a minute, then key on and plug in).
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I tried that several times. I even unplugged the 12 volt battery to force a hard reset but it didn't work. All settings on the dash kept unchanged so the bike computer that manages the charging system is connected to the main battery, not the 12V one. There is simply no way for the user to reset the bike.
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Dealer called today and said the thought is that one of the two chargers failed. They are waiting for Zero to send them the part number of the charger so they can order it. That seems a little odd. Why didn't they tell them the part number (or ship it) when they were on the phone with Zero? I'm glad I am not in a hurry to get this bike back. I will be surprised if this fixes it unless there are some massive fuses that also blew. When you try to charge it, it appears to be an open circuit. One of the chargers should still try to work. For the time being the lovebugs are still in full force in central Florida which makes riding a little bit harsh.
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Apparently Zero doesn't have their parts catalog set up exactly yet? When I ordered tank emblems for the SR/F they had to do a call and call back.
Maybe it's a different person at Zero.
-Crissa
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Dealer called today and said the thought is that one of the two chargers failed. They are waiting for Zero to send them the part number of the charger so they can order it. That seems a little odd. Why didn't they tell them the part number (or ship it) when they were on the phone with Zero? I'm glad I am not in a hurry to get this bike back. I will be surprised if this fixes it unless there are some massive fuses that also blew. When you try to charge it, it appears to be an open circuit. One of the chargers should still try to work. For the time being the lovebugs are still in full force in central Florida which makes riding a little bit harsh.
I am told this problem seems to be a charger communication (CAN BUS) error not a problem with the charger itself.
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Chargers are generally of exceptionally poor quality. Similar to customer service.
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My SR/F standard has done this same thing twice, after several key on and off it started to charge. i will contact the dealer to report this issue since other are seeing the same.
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Update from my dealer yesterday on my charger failure. They replaced one of the two chargers per Zero's recommendation and resolved half of the problem. The new charger worked but the second (original) charger failed. They are ordering another charger from Zero and will try again. I am still not convinced that both chargers just happened to fail at the same time without something else causing it. I knew they were working on it because I started getting multiple texts from the bike saying that charging was interrupted.
As a side note, I just brought my Victory Empulse TT down from Michigan to give me something to ride until the Zero is fixed. I was surprised, when I first took it for a ride after riding the Zero for several hundred miles, how much better the Zero is over the Victory/Brammo Empulse. The Empulse is lacking in almost every area compared to the the Zero. Although it doesn't have all the electronic "nannies", the only place the Empulse outshines the Zero is in the braking system. The Brembo brakes as applied to the Empulse are very smooth, predictable and provide great stopping power. On the other hand, the Zero has far more power, no noisy transmission and chain, no need to shift or use a clutch and has a bigger bike "feel" to it. I still like the look of the Empulse a little more than the Zero and It will look great hanging in my den as wall art when it finally quits running.
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The dealer called yesterday to inform me that my SR/F is now operating normally and I can pick it up. Whatever caused the charging failure in the first place took out both chargers and the delay in the repair was because only one was ordered and replaced before anyone suspected both chargers had failed at the same time.
I am at a loss to explain what happened either. I just hope it doesn't happen again. The fact that the 100 amp breaker that feeds my EVSE also popped during the charging session leads me to believe that one of the two chargers shorted internally backfeeding the voltage and current from the motorcycle battery back to the A/C line. Once the 100 amp A/C breaker opened then the DC battery from the bike could have destroyed the other charger. Just a guess but its possible that it could have happened that way. I don't see any fuses on the bike relating to either the input or output side of the chargers. I am going to ask the tech if he spotted any during the repair or has access to the wiring diagram. I would hope that there is at least fuse protection between the charger and the battery.
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Picked up the motorcycle this morning from the dealer and rode it home. However, when I got home, all of the turn signals began to flash and I couldn't turn them off. In addition the bike wouldn't turn off. I could pull the key out and the turn signals continued to flash and the dash display remained on. There were a ton of error codes including one that said it had a firmware update failure. Cleared the numerous code and all went away except #19 that said I had a turn signal lamp out. No, all four were blinking and now blinking rapidly. Also, the 12v battery warning light was on and it too started to blink. I turned the key back on to get the DC-DC converter running before I destroyed the 12V Li-Ion battery. I tried connecting the charge cable at which point the turn signals stopped flashing and I allowed the bike to charge to 100%. Still no way to get the bike to shut down. The dealer just sent a trailer to pick the bike up and get it back to the shop. I'll bet you the firmware failure is at the root of this current problem.
The bike was in the shop for a month because of the charger failures. In a couple of days, the bike will have been in the shop longer than in my possession since I purchased it . I hope this isn't signaling a trend >:(
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Do you know how to turn 4 ways on and off?
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Oh, yes, there's an emergency hazard lights function. It can get stuck on if you don't flip the switch and the turn signals in the right order.
I wonder if it got confused and that got stuck on or crosswired somehow?
-Crissa
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Update-- I forgot to mention that after I pulled the charge cable out (inserting it turned off the flashers) the turn signals refused to work at all. The dash display was still on when the dealer came to pick up the bike. I called them later in the day and they had the bike connected online with Zero but still were unable to get the thing to fully shut down. I still think corrupt firmware is at the bottom of this piece of the puzzle. I wonder what else will go wrong.
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There's always 'that one'.
Hopefully they'll get you happy again.
I on the other hand have annoyingly misplaced my metric toolkit I use for the car... Glad no one is waiting on me. The turkey-vultures calling over my head is just salt on the wound. (they sound kinda like sea gulls, actually)
-Crissa
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The four ways are a trigger switch on left handle bar.
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Going further down the rabbit hole. I called the dealer about how they are doing on the repair of my motorcycle. Did they get it running? The lady that answered the phone told me she would have the service manager call me back. When he did, I was surprised how the conversation went. They have had it since Monday afternoon and I hadn't heard anything about progress. I asked him if they got it running and his response was "the tech said he thinks he got it running". He then went on about how the tech was on the phone with Zero for several hours and that the bike was connected online with Zero to run diagnostics. Then came the shocker. He said Zero wants the motorcycle shipped back to California for inspection and repair. At their option they may repair or replace the bike. They needed my permission to ship it. I was stunned. What could they have found during the diagnostics that would require shipping the bike all the way across the country and back (or just replacing it)? This started with the failure of both chargers and replacement. It was followed by the bike acting totally wacked out after I drove it home and couldn't shut it off. I asked what the alternative to shipping it back was and he said there is no alternative. So I told them to go ahead and do it as I didn't want to be without the bike much longer. A this point, since I originally paid my cash and drove the bike home, it has been at the dealership longer then in my garage. Who knows how long this will take.
I really, really like the motorcycle. It is everything I have ever wanted in a motorcycle particularly in an electric. I loved my Empluse TT but this bike is so much quieter in operation and has tons of power. The extra range is a plus. However, I am on the verge of not being able to trust this bike. Fortunately, my bike appears to be an outlier as (at least on this forum) nobody else has seemed to have these problems. Therefore I will give it another chance. I am really interested in finding out what they saw in the diagnostics that spooked Zero into wanted the bike returned to them rather then having the local shop repair it.
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In your shoes, I would be hoping for a replacement, one that has not already been the victim of gremlins.
Either way, I hope they resolve it quickly.
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When you get a super-headscratcher, you want to see it in person! Please let them ship it! Crazy failures are really rare to be able to get back to the factory (for any product) and when you can, you can learn all sorts of failure modes you didn't expect in your design.
I'd have asked the dealer if Zero was going to front me a different bike in the meanwhile.
Sounds like you did get the jackpot of lemons and they want to know how it was possible that this happened.
-Crissa
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Like I said on earlier posts, mine had the same problem than yours (not charging at all). After sending it to Holland for repair where is Europe Zero Headquarters, they changed the whole charger and after a month of waiting, I have it back and running fine again. Sorry to hear yours is not solved yet. You are right, these problems make it difficult to trust the brand again. Now, every time I plug the bike I think it won't charge again..It's a shame
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Update--- I visited the dealer today to discuss things about returning the bike for repair or replacement. I had made three modifications to the bike. I added a Zero DC power plug, a pair of spools on the swingarm and replaced the stock handlebars with a set of Protaper Adventure high bars. The dealer asked me where the stock bar was and I told him it was in the trunk of the car. I gave him the bar and dealer said Zero wanted it put back to stock and remove all my mods. I asked why they wanted to go through this if they were just going to inspect or repair the bike. He said that was their request. I asked who would put my high bar back on when the bike is returned and he stated they would do it and return whatever I ended with with to the configuration of my bike when I dropped it off. Sounds to me like I might be getting a replacement as they gave me a bag with my parts in it along with my license plate. Which ever way it goes, (repair or replacement) I will be satisfied if the bike just runs like it did for the first 400 miles. Time will tell.
I hope that they get to the bottom of what sequence of events allowed the bike to get into the condition it is now in. I think they are trying their best to make me happy. So now it is waiting time. I'll keep you guys updated when I get any progress or decision reports. BTW--the dealer thinks my "power pack" might arrive before the bike comes back. Oh lucky me, the bike comes back and straight into the shop 8)
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Another update on the repair/replacement of my SR/F. The motorcycle is on the move. It was picked up at the dealer last week and I guess is heading back to the factory. I can ping the bike with the app and it shows the bike's location which is now on the New Mexico border headed West. Not a word from Zero about what they are going to do with the bike and if they are going to return it or replace it. It's been a long time since the breakdown and I hope this can be resolved soon. Maybe I can get it back by Christmas. Already cost me the fall riding season which is really nice here in central Florida. This is strictly Zero's fault as my dealer has been tearing his hair out about the delays and trying to help but runs into dead ends.
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I may end up being in the same position. MY SRF crapped out on me when I turned it off at a charging station. It wouldn’t start and came back with a 12v failure. I needed to truck it home and then to the dealer. It is in the dealer now. He told me that he is going to run a diagnostic program and send results to zero. I told him the bike will no longer stay on for more than a few seconds. He thought it was an easy solution to order a new 12v battery from Zero until I told him I fully charged the battery and still the bike will not stay on. He then looked lost what to do and just said he will have to talk to Zero. I am not sure if they can power up the computer another way but if not, I do not know if it will require a round trip to California. The only saving point is it happened at the end of peak riding season in NY so it would not have really been on the road much until spring. Seeing some of the complaints of bad chargers and DC/DC converters, it is not looking good for Zero’s 4 month old $20K flagship bike. I hope it gets better from here.
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Unfortunately, none of these sort of problems are going to give Zero retail dealers a warm and fuzzy feeling about the brand and electric motorcycles in general. :( And the word does get around from dealer to dealer very quickly. It took my BMW dealer about 8 years to get over their one and only experience with Brammo electric bikes, before they were finally willing to take a chance on Energica.
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As a consumer it is really making me second guess my decision to go with the SR/F. Don’t get me wrong, I love the bike. If they would fix this issue and it would be good from then on, I would still be positive about the bike. The problem is normally I would not have bought a first year model just for these reasons. I went for it because the timing was right and I bought into their many years of development and rigorous testing claims. I always said, I am willing to accept the bugs with a first year model (poor cellular communication, poor app, OTA update issues) but not any major issues. Well I had my first and hopefully last major issue.
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Bump---and final post. The SR/F finally arrived a Zero motorcycles in Scotts Valley. We have come to a mutual agreement on what to do next. The motorcycle will stay with Zero and will be replaced. At this point, I have options of what to replace it with. Finally after all this time Zero has stepped up to the plate and resolved my issues in a proper and professional manner. At first, I thought Zero had dropped the ball on this but it appears more likely that an unfortunate series of events, missteps and timing dragged out this process. I need to thank Zero and my dealer, Sky Powersports in Sanford, Florida, for resolving this. I hope the forensic analysis of my old bike well help Zero prevent whatever happened to my bike from ever happening again.
I really liked the SR/F. It pushed all the right buttons and did everything I expected of it. It's just this one particular bike had a flaw in its build or assembly that lead to it becoming undrivable and not repairable. I am going to look around at what is available to replace it with. I still have my Empulse TT and it is still running just fine. I might even consider another SR/F after they build a bunch more of them. I liked it that much.