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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: enaef on October 13, 2019, 09:05:04 PM
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Is the Zero SR/F delivered with charging cable(s)?
Living in Switzerland, I'd need a Type 2 (Mennekes) to Type 2 cable, as well as sort of an adapter for home charging (Type 2 to home socket in 230V 10A) I guess.
Thanks
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No cable or adapter included. To charge from a 220V circuit you can buy an adapter zero branded voor 530 EUR. Saw a promotion at a local dealer where they included one for free but that's an exception.
For charging on the road you'll need a type2 charge cable which you should find for 150-200 eur online.
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For a standard SR/F you can suffice with a 1 phase, 16A cable (about 150-200 euro) because the 3kW single charger is connected to L1 / Phase 1 and uses "only" 3000/230 = 13A
For a premium SR/F you would need a 3 phase 16A cable (about 200-250 euro) because there are two 3kW chargers, connected to L1 and L2, each using the same 13A on the 2 phases
If you would ever get a chargetank rapid charger module you would need a 3 phase 32A cable, because the 6kW rapid charger is connected to L3 and uses 26A on L3.
you COULD use a 3 phase 16A cable with a rapid charger module but then the rapid charger would throttle back to 3.6 kW (16A) for a total of 3+3+3.6 = 9.6 kW
How i know the rapid charger is only connected to L3? There is a connector under the tank already prepared and this is only connected to L3.
I took a picture of it when i had the tank off.
For at home charging i use a portable EV chargerbox (1 phase 16A capable)
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AFAIK, it comes with a L1 cable and a L2 inlet (J1772 or Mennekes based on region) and L2 charging stations come with their own cable.
I don't know of any optional cable for the SR/F. But dang they're pretty at the showroom ^-^
-Crissa
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Thanks remmie and Hans2183 !
As a total tech-dummy this all is completely new land to me .... :-\
I plan to buy the bike only next year - was never on a heavy motor bike before and will have to learn to ride genuinely. (I'm bicycling and drove a moped some 40 years ago ...).
It will surely be the premium version and I assume that in the end I also want the rapid charge option. I'm not sure if I will order that from the beginning or if I want to start without it and first have a look and feel how things evolve. In the latter case I nonetheless would buy the 3 Pase 32A version fromt the start).
Regarding charging at home (living in a rented flat); we got a free T25 socket. I guess that exists only in Switzerland https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Swiss_3hd.html . One internet source sais it's 3L / 3x400V/16A; 230V/16A.
I wonder if I could use this one somehow. However, I'd need a cable of about 15 - 20m length ...
So - no idea if that would work and what I'd need for that. I think I somewhere read that electricity home installation is not designed for heavy use like 3x400V/16A over a long period. I guess I will have to ask an electrician.
Also I have asked the owner (pension fund; building with 10 flats) if he'd be willing to install a wall box. Then I would not need the solution for the T25 socket. But I'm not very confident that the owner will do it. I'm just checking my options in advance ...
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.... and L2 charging stations come with their own cable....
-Crissa
Neither the two next two T2 charging stations near where I live nor the T2 station where I work have their own cable, so I definitively will need one ...
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Neither the two next two T2 charging stations near where I live nor the T2 station where I work have their own cable, so I definitively will need one ...
Really? Weird!
I wonder if it's a security method? I don't even know what the other end of a Mennekes cable should look like! It's not in the standard on wikipedia.
-Crissa
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And by the way - aren't there other Zero bikes than the SR/F coming with a 'direct inlet' from home socket (230V/16A for Switzerland)?
First, the cables which seem necessary for different charging situations for the SR/F are not cheap and second, where can I put it all when I'm on the way with it? Especially if space is used up by the fast charging option ....
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Crissa, the sockets of the charging stations look identical compared to the one of the SR/F. So, just Mennekes
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The older Zero models - the S/SR/DS/DSR/FX/FXS - all come with an L1 onboard charger that has the same inlet as a personal computer or other electronics device (like a guitar amp, for instance, which is where I got my overbuilt cable for my used 2014 S). For them to charge at an L2 you need an adapter or the 'Charge Tank'. All Zero motorcycles - even the SR/F - come with at least one charging cable.
It's really unusual and probably just some local (to your neighborhood or country) that the L2 chargers near you don't have cables. The included SR/F cable might be what you need if you're buying it from a local dealer. You'd just have to ask. Maybe carry a photograph with you so you can compare.
The cable you refer to for the stations without one is probably like this: alibaba marketplace (http://"https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Electric-cable-IEC-62196-2-male-female_62140255889.html?src=sem_ggl&mark=google_shopping&src=sem_ggl&mark=shopping&cmpgn=1669448132&adgrp=65389004555&locintrst=&locphyscl=&ntwrk=g&device=c&dvcmdl=&position=1o4&pla_adtype=pla&pla_mrctid=140058674&pla_channel=online&pla_prdid=62140255889&pla_country=US&pla_lang=en&pla_group=293946777986&pla_localcode=&gclid=CjwKCAjwlovtBRBrEiwAG3XJ-6GSVwF4baUYqn7b0-BcjqucLJINhs1N6kF3l1qksX9nCQjDKMXqJhoCZZoQAvD_BwE#shopping-ads")
It should not cost more than ~$150 US/EU.
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It's really unusual and probably just some local (to your neighborhood or country) that the L2 chargers near you don't have cables.
In Austria almost no charging stations have fixed cables, except the CCS/ChadeMo/44KW chargers. Really weird that Zero doesn't include cables here...
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Same in .no.
No public L2 chargers have cables attached to them.
Only L3 (DC fast charge) have that.
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How i know the rapid charger is only connected to L3? There is a connector under the tank already prepared and this is only connected to L3.
I took a picture of it when i had the tank off.
Did you share that picture already? You got me (us) curious.
Earlier this month I tried ordering the SR/F (in Switzerland) with the rapid charger since it was said to be available in fall 2019.
No luck, still not available. I settled on the Premium with "only" 6 kW.
My dealer also said that, as for previous generations, it would keep on being mounted afterward at the dealership. As a result, there will be an added cost for the work needed.
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... and probably just some local (to your neighborhood or country) that the L2 chargers near you don't have cables.
Seems it's more than a local 'problmem'. Austria, Switzerland, Norway ... May be it's how it is in Europe ...
In my neighborhood also the charging stations with DC have cables. The next station to my flat has two different DC types, therefore two cables and one L2 without cable.
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How i know the rapid charger is only connected to L3? There is a connector under the tank already prepared and this is only connected to L3.
I took a picture of it when i had the tank off.
Did you share that picture already? You got me (us) curious.
Earlier this month I tried ordering the SR/F (in Switzerland) with the rapid charger since it was said to be available in fall 2019.
No luck, still not available. I settled on the Premium with "only" 6 kW.
My dealer also said that, as for previous generations, it would keep on being mounted afterward at the dealership. As a result, there will be an added cost for the work needed.
Here's the picture of the connector, its a amphenol radsok A connector with 4 large poles an 2 smaller. 3 of the 4 larger poles are directly connected to the L3, N and PE terminals of the type 2 connector on the bike. The 2 smaller poles are for the CAN communication (i followed the wires through the harness). There's even a sticker on this particular harness with "chargetank" on it. The connector has a blind cap on it and is tucked in between the other wires.
https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Industrial/ELR4A04?qs=%252B6g0mu59x7KnOuP3J9Girg%3D%3D (https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Industrial/ELR4A04?qs=%252B6g0mu59x7KnOuP3J9Girg%3D%3D)
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here's another picture where you can also see the accessory cable on the front of the bike (blue wire with white label on the far right of the picture)
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All Zeros come with a cable, and nearly all L2 stations on Amazon come with a cable. So it still sounds like a 'local' problem. Most stations near me at L2 stations and they all have cables, even the ones out on the street.
I know the dealer I went to is unique, since it's literally the closest one to Zero, but they do have SR/Fs with the Premium packages in stock. They just started getting them at the beginning of September. https://www.sjbmw.com/New-Inventory-2020-Zero-Motorcycle-Scooter-Zero-SR-F-Premium-San-Jose-BMW-7758395?ref=list
-Crissa
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Crissa it is not the same in Europe. European SR/Fs don't come with a chargingcable, and to use public stations they often need to buy a cable as well. There was a thread about this a while back, and the justification I heard is there are too many European plugs to stock one.
You are correct for the US though
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Crissa it is not the same in Europe. European SR/Fs don't come with a chargingcable, and to use public stations they often need to buy a cable as well. There was a thread about this a while back, and the justification I heard is there are too many European plugs to stock one.
You are correct for the US though
Yes, unfortunately this is the case in Europe. So we have to have 2 different cables, both of which we have to buy separately.
The only exceptions are the really FAST chargers which can supply up to 43kW AC (3 phase 63Amps). These are often combined with a chademo and CCS connection. Usually all three connections have a cable attached to the charging station.
Downside is that these FAST chargers are quite expensive (up to or even over 1 euro per kWh) while the standard 3 phase AC charging stations are normally around 0,35 euro per kWh. Second and for some even more important downside of the FAST chargers is that they are outnumbered at least 10:1 or even 20:1 compared to the vast amount of 11 or 22 kW AC charging stations without a cable.
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Hello
I ordered my SR/F in June and it was delivered in August. So guess what...I had more than plenty of time to look around for charging solutions and figure out what was needed. For home use I already have a L2 charging solution (3phase 16A 400V) with two charging points OpenWB - OpenSource Wallbox (http://www.openwb.de).
Now with a lot of googling I found out what was said before. Each 3kW onboard charger is connected to a distinct phase and the charge tank is connected to phase 3 on L2 charging stations. This brought me to the conclusion, that I absolutely wanted a short, highly flexible and high quality Type2 cable which can fit in the storage compartment. In my opinion 3m length is sufficient. I did not find anything right away. In order to ensure being able to charge anywhere I would also need a L1 charging solution. This would only have to support 230V/ 13A max. Regular outlets in Switzerland can not handle more Power than 3kW for longer periods of time.
So I checked the manufacturers offers --> no good. Too expensive, cable oversized, heavy and not flexible.
Finally I turned to Chinese manufacturers. Got 3 offers and settled with Khons (https://www.khonsevse.com). I got in contact, made clear what I was looking for and they built to order exactly what I needed (L1 charger with 230V/13A max and a Swiss T13 plug and a 3m flexible 3p Type2 cable). Awesome contact, fast delivery, fair prices ($174 for L1 charger, $76 for Type2 cable,$42 for shipping) awesome quality and TüV certified.
My Zero dealer (Country Road (https://www.countryroad.ch)) in Alpnach now has the connections and orders larger quantities of the set for his customers. Get in touch if you would like to know about experiences and maybe want to order from him.
Regards,
Matt
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Thanks Matt (bigmadf) for this information.
Your solution looks definitively cheaper than what I'm thinking about now:
https://www.juice-technology.com/juice-booster?lang=en
However, I'm still not sure what I want. Robustness of this booster-solution outdoor, all the adapters available (for house- but also industrial-plugs) as well as extension cables are interesting, for a heavy price however.
As I wrote earlyer, I'm thinking of charging at home on a T-25 Socket (3x400V 16A) which would allow me about 9kW if I got a charge tank.
One important factor is, as you wrote, the space it will take. With a charging tank I guess I would need at least a top-case to take my charging solution with me.
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Hey
Why do you think you need to charge high speed at home? In my opinion 3kW charging is more than sufficient for home charging. In Switzerland there are Level 2 charging stations literally everywhere. I also tried to get a mobile charging solution which is highly flexible in terms of sockets and power....believe me, this is totally overrated. I always only carry the Type2 cable with me. At home I use my callbox but if I did not have a wallbox, the charger with 3kW would be more than sufficient for me.
Greets
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Matt
As I'm not a home-owner but live in a rented flat I have no space where I can park the bike for a long time and charge it at the same time. I got a bike-parking-space opposit of the house where I live. There however I can't charge.
I'll have to ask the renters of the next house where I live, if I can park my bike in front of their house, while im charging it by a cable leading through a window of my flat. May sound crazy but what shall I do.
This all is necessary of course only if the owner of the house where I live is not willing to install a wall-box.
Of course, there is still the option to charge it at a public charging station, some 500-600m away from where I live (IF it's available and working). Well, I come home from work, have to charge, and then catch the bike when it is full ... hm ....
I'm checking my options ... And I have time till next spring ...
However, thanks Matt for your challenging comments, they are very welcome. I want to make sound decisions ....
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Hey
well, I see your problem. In my opinion it is essential for an EV owner to have a possibility to charge at (or close to) home (overnight). When using regular sockets in Europe with an extension cord you need to make sure, that high quality cables are used and that you do not charge with max amperage of the socket. In Switzerland I recommend using not more than 10A with a regular T13 socket when using an extension cord.
I am sure you will find a suitable solution.
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Juice Booster 2 only uses 80% of capacity for long time charging.
The adapters are coded, the amount of power is regulated automatically. Adapters with home-plugs monitor temperature in the plug itself (this was introduced just these months as far as I know). If the plug gets too hot in case of bad wiring for example, charging is being paused until temperature is back down enought to restart charging. It does this three times, then it quits charging definitively.
Extension cables are available for the juice booster itself (https://www.juice-technology.com/juice-booster?lang=en)
If I'm going this way I plan to use the T25-Socket anyway (3x400V 16A).
So, I should be on the secure side - for a heavy price though ...
We will see ...
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... Now with a lot of googling I found out what was said before. Each 3kW onboard charger is connected to a distinct phase and the charge tank is connected to phase 3 on L2 charging stations. This brought me to the conclusion, that I absolutely wanted a short, highly flexible and high quality Type2 cable which can fit in the storage compartment. In my opinion 3m length is sufficient....
Interesting!
This is also what I have done the past few weeks and I came to the same conclusion: for the SR/F the cables sold for electric cars today are way too long and heavy to be used with motorcycles (2 phases unused and too many amps for an EVSE application). I specified the EVSE boxed cable which I also ordered in China to be 0.5 meter instead of 5 meter. In all the situations I found myself during my test rides, this was long enough. If I need longer, then I'll just extend the other side.
Thank you for reporting your experience on this
Zaid
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In all cases thus far (see attached pictures) I could have the EVSE box right next to the Mennekes connector. I had it mostly hanging on the handlebars of the bike, thus my idea that 0.5 meter would be sufficient.
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Interesting Thread.
Ive just got an premium SR/F and have made some 170 mile journeys on it. Whats immediately obvious:
I need the chargetank, even though this seem to be reported as only having 11.6 kW input on 22kW stations. iTS SO BORING waiting around service stations for 90 minutes. So this should cut it to under an hour, and as there are a subset of UK motorway service stations with tethered cables, I dont need to carry a three phase type 2 cable.
BUT then with a chargtank theres no room for my 13A to type 2 cable. I need this at the end point to charge overnight before coming back. Speed not an issue here.
Im wondering if its possible to have a more compact version of this cable that will fit under the seat (silly tray removed), but the supplied cable is very large, although has inbuilt RCD protection. Length isnt a problem,e, I can blag an extension most places. I could carry a small 13A RCD to use on any extension I borrow, that wouldnt take up much room.
anyone else with this dilemma?
Oh and the rack I ordered is on long delivery from Zero - my dealer says he has 3 on order for months, so the cable would have to go in the backpack with my clothes....
And maybe it would be better to get a third party charger and speed up the charge rate some more?
Happy biking! pete
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Harley’s Livewire charging cable is smaller and shorter than Zero’s SR/F cable.
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Im wondering if its possible to have a more compact version of this cable that will fit under the seat (silly tray removed), but the supplied cable is very large, although has inbuilt RCD protection. Length isnt a problem,e, I can blag an extension most places. I could carry a small 13A RCD to use on any extension I borrow, that wouldnt take up much room. Anyone else with this dilemma?
This guy did a great DYI job squeezing all the electronics inside that Mennekes bulky plastic body but as far as I know there is nothing on the market yet. Also, it was a prototype in need of a couple of revisions :).
https://youtu.be/HV3468LmIiQ?t=1051 (https://youtu.be/HV3468LmIiQ?t=1051)
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https://www.ev-power.eu/Electric-Cars/EVSE-kit-for-EV-charging-station-cable.html (https://www.ev-power.eu/Electric-Cars/EVSE-kit-for-EV-charging-station-cable.html)
These are the components you would need to build a cable yourself. The relais isn't even necessary to get the SR/F charging. I know that because I made my own version with an ATTiny25 (small arduino-like microcontroller), a small circuitboard and a small 12Vdc power supply. The SR/F just needs the correct pilot PWM signal and doesn't mind if the 230V is already present before it should be. In Europe all normal household outlets are mandatory behind an RCD so it would be redundant and is therefore not included.
In Europe we have the mennekes type 2 connector and that is even bulkier as the J1772. But if you open up the connector you have a lot of air/nothing inside.
Fortunately the second and third phase on the mennekes connector are at the bottom of the connector and are not needed for L1 charging. What I have done is simply cut off the bottom portion of the connector so that phase, neutral, earth, PP and CP pins are still present. this reduces the connector considerably.
Then i designed a 3D printable housing for the remaining part of the connector and used a "pigtail gland" to add a strain relief to the cable.
Now the connector is only 35 mm high and easliy fits under the passenger seat provided that the sillytray is removed
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https://github.com/kortas87/simple-evse/wiki (https://github.com/kortas87/simple-evse/wiki)
here's another link on how to make a smaller "granny charger"
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Then i designed a 3D printable housing for the remaining part of the connector and used a "pigtail gland" to add a strain relief to the cable.
Now the connector is only 35 mm high and easily fits under the passenger seat provided that the silly tray is removed
Wow! That is simply amazing what you have a done and exactly what I thought should be possible. Many thanks to share your work with the community, much appreciated.
Meanwhile I have received a basic EVSE cable I ordered in China which length was cut to my specifications. As I had hoped, it is quite smaller and lighter than those made for cars, or the Zero one. I wish I had all the tools (3d printer) and skills to clone your work but you are getting me nearer to wanting to try it nonetheless. I finally got my SR/F Premium last Friday but without the street number yet so I am not in any kind of hurry for such a project, especially in the winter.
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Wonderful, thanks Remmie, I can go ahead with a charge tank knowing I can get/make a cable to fit under the seat with sillytray removed. Thank you so much!
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Still on this thread, I have a Zero charge cable for the UK, on a premium SRF.
I was told that pressing the button on the type 2 connector would vary the charge rate 6/8/10A, including making the blue led flash at a different rate.
Mine does nothing, plus I'm getting a constant 21 amp and 2.1 kW indicated. Is this correct?
I know the premium has 2 off 3kW charges and the standard charge cable only uses one in the UK, but isn't it supposed to be nearer 3kW input??
any enlightenment welcome.
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I stumbled over this; unfortunately my skills are not of the necessary kind to build it on my own.
It's in German ....
https://www.evalbo.de/tutorials/simple-evse-ladekabel/
Schematics attached.
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@peterwarm I have the 220V EU version of that wall plug to Type 2 adapter and when I plug it in the wall socket it will do nothing at first. I then have to hit the button closest to the wall socket to enable the circuit and then the blue led will blink 1 or 4 times depending on what mode is currently active (4 options on mine). The other button on the block triggers the breaker switch as a safety test.
To change the level you have to wait for that sequence to finish and then press and hold the smal round button on the type 2charge connector. The blue led will then go out and start blinking, you stop pressing at the desired # of blinks (1-4) to set it to that level.
You can also do this while it's charging in the bike.
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@enaef
check this out:
https://dc-laden.ch/epages/178956.mobile/de_CH/?ObjectPath=/Shops/178956/Products/ac0047